Hypothetically speaking, can you lie about your EC's, shadowing, and research?

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The Buff OP

The Buff OP

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I was talking to my buddy the other day and he was telling me people do lie in their applications, because they don't really ask for proof. Is it true? I personally would never lie about something like that, I suck at lying. LOL If it does happen. WOW!
 
The Buff OP said:
I was talking to my buddy the other day and he was telling me people do lie in their applications, because they don't really ask for proof. Is it true? I personally would never lie about something like that, I suck at lying. LOL If it does happen. WOW!
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In a high-stakes competition like this, cheating and dishonesty should be expected.

Personally I think it would be pretty easy to cheat on the MCAT.

Send in someone who knows science and hasn't given biometric data to AAMC in the past with a fake ID. I'm sure it's happened many, many times.
 
I'm curious what the consequences of lying and getting caught are though... Let's say you list some EC that you never participated in and a school tries to confirm your involvement with your contact info given and they say you were never there.....
 
Omppu27 said:
I'm curious what the consequences of lying and getting caught are though... Let's say you list some EC that you never participated in and a school tries to confirm your involvement with your contact info given and they say you were never there.....
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Ya done. Schools have plenty of applicants to replace you with.
 
I know people who have lied about their ECs (leadership positions and research experiences) and received multiple acceptances in both Canada and the States. TBH if someone wants to lie about it, they don't need to put real contact info when they fill out AMCAS. I think all they need to do is filling in their parents/friends' contact info and ask them to help them cheat.
 
The Buff OP said:
I was talking to my buddy the other day and he was telling me people do lie in their applications, because they don't really ask for proof. Is it true? I personally would never lie about something like that, I suck at lying. LOL If it does happen. WOW!
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Of course it's possible to be a ****ty human being. Doesn't mean you should be.
 
sure you can lie about it but if you are caught then the consequences will be severe
 
The Buff OP said:
I was talking to my buddy the other day and he was telling me people do lie in their applications, because they don't really ask for proof. Is it true? I personally would never lie about something like that, I suck at lying. LOL If it does happen. WOW!
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I'm sure many will be using this thread as a go-ahead to cheat. Also, it is pretty hard to cheat on the MCAT.
 
I'm sure many people cushion, or even blatantly lie about, their extracurricular and shadowing experiences. I think research would be less likely as usually there's some easily contactable, reliable source or record that would deny any invalid claims. I doubt there's been more than a handful of people who have successfully cheated on the MCAT.
 
pyrrion89 said:
Also, it is pretty hard to cheat on the MCAT.
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I think so too - getting someone to take it for you and to do well can't be easy. Where would you even begin to look - Craigslist? :laugh:
 
I guesstimated my hours for most of my activities, may have rounded up here or there. Also made it sound like the ECs I did that were 90% hang out and chat with nurses were a lot more serious clinical work. Does that count as cheating? Because in that case, I think we have a lot of guilty people here.
 
I think the point here to try and represent your ECs as closely and as accurately as possible to the best of your knowledge. If you do that then you will be fine.

Good Luck!
 
Not work the risk IMO. It was the same story in high school with lying about IB CAS hours, or NHS hours. Yes, you can do it, but if you get caught, the consequences are severe. If you lied on your AMCAS and a school finds out, they're free to let other schools know and then you're toast.

Exaggeration is something you can get away with more easily, as long as it isn't over the top (e.g. saying you got 1000 volunteer hours over the course of one summer)

What I'm more worried about is: what happens if you're not lying but, for whatever reason, the day the adcoms decide to check up on one of your activities is the day your reference forgets who you are and tells the adcoms they don't know what they're referring to?
 
Radon XP said:
Not work the risk IMO. It was the same story in high school with lying about IB CAS hours, or NHS hours. Yes, you can do it, but if you get caught, the consequences are severe. If you lied on your AMCAS and a school finds out, they're free to let other schools know and then you're toast.

Exaggeration is something you can get away with more easily, as long as it isn't over the top (e.g. saying you got 1000 volunteer hours over the course of one summer)

What I'm more worried about is: what happens if you're not lying but, for whatever reason, the day the adcoms decide to check up on one of your activities is the day your reference forgets who you are and tells the adcoms they don't know what they're referring to?[/COLOR]
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This can happen once in a while as some reference's see hundreds of applicants a year. What usually happens is the reference will check his/her records and then call the ADCOM back.
 
I'm sure that people embellish all the time, and some do lie. My impression is that people try to overstate what they did in research. You can tell that when you ask them about their reserach.


A colleague of mine actually caught someone in a lie during an interview once.

It was amazing to see they applicant try to physcially become smaller and smaller.

Guess who got rejected?

But if you write down that you worked at the soup kitchen five Thansgivings in a row, we don't have the time to check that out.

The Buff OP said:
I was talking to my buddy the other day and he was telling me people do lie in their applications, because they don't really ask for proof. Is it true? I personally would never lie about something like that, I suck at lying. LOL If it does happen. WOW!
Click to expand...
 
don't know why anyone would lie about this, you'd be taking a huge risk. not to mention how unethical this is
 
@m2d,

I'd be surprised if AAMC could legally release all that data to USMLE, but that would be a strong layer of security.
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
It's also pretty hard for a bunch of Israelis to kill one of Hamas' most senior leaders in Dubai and get away with it, but that happened.

I don't know when MCAT started using biometric data, but it wasn't that long ago. Anyone outside of their system with a solid ID could impersonate with ease.
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Wow that certainly was a random attempt to derail a thread if I have ever seen one. Leave it to such a reliable source like Wikipedia combined with Dubai PD findings to find Israel at fault. I really have no clue where that came from.
 
It's doable, and I've heard of people who don't just exaggerate ECs, but wildly invent fake ECs. Medical schools have so many applicants to go through that they are highly unlikely to check everybody as thoroughly as they should.
 
People embellish hours for things like volunteering.

But it makes no sense. Why would you inflate hours for something you're passionate about? I mean I can't think that any pre-med would be doing these things other than for personal enjoyment, right? 🙄

The risk of getting caught is miniscule, as long as it's kept realistic. However, the consequences for lying are huge. As for "lying" about volunteer hours, I guess that some people think that some level of fudging is OK, while there is some arbitrary imaginary line when it becomes lying.

Overall, I wouldn't blame the players, but blame the game. The process has caused otherwise honest people to do some dishonest things. Maybe this shows that changes should be made, especially given the fact that pre-meds have a piss poor reputation at volunteer sites. Gee, I wonder where that comes from?
 
Planes2Doc said:
People embellish hours for things like volunteering.

But it makes no sense. Why would you inflate hours for something you're passionate about? I mean I can't think that any pre-med would be doing these things other than for personal enjoyment, right? 🙄

The risk of getting caught is miniscule, as long as it's kept realistic. However, the consequences for lying are huge. As for "lying" about volunteer hours, I guess that some people think that some level of fudging is OK, while there is some arbitrary imaginary line when it becomes lying.

Overall, I wouldn't blame the players, but blame the game. The process has caused otherwise honest people to do some dishonest things. Maybe this shows that changes should be made, especially given the fact that pre-meds have a piss poor reputation at volunteer sites. Gee, I wonder where that comes from?
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Actually, this is just supply and demand. Various factors, like recession and tiger parents, cause more applicants to apply to medicine, due to job security, money, prestige etc. with more people applying to med schools, naturally the admission process becomes tougher because there's a very low supply of seats for a large demand, so adcoms act to sharply reduce the demand. So we have things like community service, clinical experience, research etc. and so high competition causes people to become dishonest.

The cause of this competition are the applicants themselves and perhaps the economy
 
If you consider lying to be making something sound better than it really was then I bet most applicants are lying at some point.
 
This thread is starting to get interesting...
 
My friend told me a story just last week about one of her friends.

Friend of a friend was interviewing and told the Adcom member about a soup kitchen she volunteered at. Little did she know the Adcom member helped start that soup kitchen and was a huge part of it. Long story short she was asked a bunch of questions that anyone that actually worked there would know, and she couldn't give a correct answer at all.

Needless to say I don't think she'll be getting an acceptance from that school.
 
I tried to be as honest as possible on my application. For some of my activities it was hard to remember the hours per week so I undershot. The risk is too high if caught and the benefit of 25-50 more hours is too low. If you want to make up activists on your application, that's your prerogative but regardless of whether you're caught or not, it makes you a ****ty human being.
 
I wouldn't think exaggerating is lying. This is more of a strategic thing. You're trying to sell yourself to someone else, why would you not make the things you've done sound better?

But in respond to the OP, yes hypothetically you can lie. Some people are very good liars and I know some of these people personally. Some can get away, some people don't. But real-doers will definitely perform in some way or another better than the cheaters (Like in interviews). I would say just don't make up things you never did before.
 
Brownman55 said:
My friend told me a story just last week about one of her friends.

Friend of a friend was interviewing and told the Adcom member about a soup kitchen she volunteered at. Little did she know the Adcom member helped start that soup kitchen and was a huge part of it. Long story short she was asked a bunch of questions that anyone that actually worked there would know, and she couldn't give a correct answer at all.

Needless to say I don't think she'll be getting an acceptance from that school.
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Man...just wow...talk about bad luck.
 
rolliespring said:
I wouldn't think exaggerating is lying. This is more of a strategic thing. You're trying to sell yourself to someone else, why would you not make the things you've done sound better?

But in respond to the OP, yes hypothetically you can lie. Some people are very good liars and I know some of these people personally. Some can get away, some people don't. But real-doers will definitely perform in some way or another better than the cheaters (Like in interviews). I would say just don't make up things you never did before.
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:laugh::laugh:🤣🤣🤣:laugh::laugh: at your signature quote
 
Goro said:
A colleague of mine actually caught someone in a lie during an interview once.
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Nice! 👍

Yeah, personally I would not like to lie about it, I want to feel proud of my service and get to know great physicians. I have volunteer for a church a couple of times, but I can't really prove it, they didn't gave me a certificate. I could prove hospital volunteering because of certificates. 👍
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
It's also pretty hard for a bunch of Israelis to kill one of Hamas' most senior leaders in Dubai and get away with it, but that happened.

I don't know when MCAT started using biometric data, but it wasn't that long ago. Anyone outside of their system with a solid ID could impersonate with ease.
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Woah! Shocking non- relatable example to the subject, but okay. I did see a documentary of the slaves in Dubai, pretty sad.
 
slopes23 said:
Wow that certainly was a random attempt to derail a thread if I have ever seen one. Leave it to such a reliable source like Wikipedia combined with Dubai PD findings to find Israel at fault. I really have no clue where that came from.
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Wait, are you arguing that Mossad was not involved? 😱

That story was meant to illustrate that impersonation can still be pulled off nowadays, despite the use of biometric data and high tech surveillance equipment. The fragile old lady who checked me in at the Prometric Center is far easier to trick than Dubai's counterintelligence apparatus.

You don't have to believe me, but just as there are people in top colleges right now who paid someone to take their SAT, I assure you there are people in medical school who did the same thing.
 
If you think about it realistically, the application cycle never stop for the adcoms. So even once they've finalized their class they already have a new stack of thousands of apps for the next year. The most efficient way to weed out people would be to confirm all their ECs after they've been accepted, that way it's a shorter list of people. But still, you can have something like 15 ECs, and with hundreds of students in each class, that'd be a lot of phone calls to have to make. During the interview they can try to sniff out BS, but I'm sure people still slip through the cracks and are able to lie about a reference and never have them called.
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
Wait, are you arguing that Mossad was not involved? 😱

That story was meant to illustrate that impersonation can still be pulled off nowadays, despite the use of biometric data and high tech surveillance equipment. The fragile old lady who checked me in at the Prometric Center is far easier to trick than Dubai's counterintelligence apparatus.

You don't have to believe me, but just as there are people in top colleges right now who paid someone to take their SAT, I assure you there are people in medical school who did the same thing.
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I wasn't really saying they were or were not involved, more that wikipedia and Dubai PD don't really combine to make an effective source in my mind. Moreover there are a million other examples you could have drawn from that would have been more relevant and I found it shocking you chose this particular one(2 years ago might I add).
Lastly, to compare the resources that any first world country has at it's disposal to those of a premed student is laughable.
Moreover the thread was about lying on your AMCAS application, not the difficulty or lack thereof of cheating/fraud on the MCAT.
So again it just seemed like a very peculiar attempt to derail a thread.
 
The AAMC definitely does not take actual biometric fingerprint data. Something like that probably wouldn't have been approved with the laws we have in place.

What they most likely do is take the width and length of the fingertip. This is what theme parks like Universal Studios do at the entrance as well to prevent multiple use of annual passes.

I realized this was the case when a retaker friend's print was rejected before coming back for the BS. The lady told him to "press more lightly," and then it worked. Upon hearing this, it clicked with my experience with scalping tickets in California (TEEHEE) and I now harbor the suspicion that the fingerprinting business is just for deterrence and wouldn't be hard to get past. Not to say this behavior should be done, but it's possible. But this only applies to retakers since first-timers won't have stored data.

The ID part would be a bit harder if they use the airport security methods of checking for watermarks and stuff.
 
Cambover said:
I tried to be as honest as possible on my application. For some of my activities it was hard to remember the hours per week so I undershot. The risk is too high if caught and the benefit of 25-50 more hours is too low. If you want to make up activists on your application, that's your prerogative but regardless of whether you're caught or not, it makes you a ****ty human being.
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+infinity
 
I've definitely embellished, but I'd be too afraid of the consequences to outright make stuff up. Besides, the real test comes when they interview you. You'd have to be a really good liar to be able to have a conversation about an activity you've never actually done. I am not a good liar at all, and I imagine adcoms are pretty adept at sniffing out BS.
 
whatever5 said:
I guesstimated my hours for most of my activities, may have rounded up here or there. Also made it sound like the ECs I did that were 90% hang out and chat with nurses were a lot more serious clinical work. Does that count as cheating? Because in that case, I think we have a lot of guilty people here.
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It counts as lying. You sound like you would be a better nurse. jk jk
 
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medoc4 said:
it counts as lying. You sound like you would be a better nurse.
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oie_3025710beCgELO21.gif
 
medoc4 said:
It counts as lying. You sound like you would be a better nurse.
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You're right. When I ask people how they got into nursing, they pretty much all say "Well I wanted to be a doctor, but on AMCAS I said I did 100 hours of volunteering at this one activity when really I did 96".
 
whatever5 said:
You're right. When I ask people how they got into nursing, they pretty much all say "Well I wanted to be a doctor, but on AMCAS I said I did 100 hours of volunteering at this one activity when really I did 96".
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In my experience, the differential is more likely than not less than 3 hours, actually.
 
medoc4 said:
It counts as lying. You sound like you would be a better nurse.
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gtfo if you think hanging out and chatting makes you better suited to be a nurse
 
i might be the only one in this thread who thinks that academic cheating is in NO WAY unethical. i perfectly condone cheating because life is a race and formal education is overall BS. i don't cheat myself, but bravo to anyone who has the balls to cheat rampantly. great reward, huge risk. if you get caught lying on your amcas somehow at any point during med school, then they will kick you out.
 
ReptarBar said:
i might be the only one in this thread who thinks that academic cheating is in NO WAY unethical. i perfectly condone cheating because life is a race and formal education is overall BS. i don't cheat myself, but bravo to anyone who has the balls to cheat rampantly. great reward, huge risk. if you get caught lying on your amcas somehow at any point during med school, they will kick you out.
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I agree. The reward is very lucrative and great.

So **** medicine and formal education, guys. I'm robbing the next armored vehicle that stops at the neighborhood bank. Life is a race and I'm gonna gun down all y'all naive academic bitches for sure.
 
ReptarBar said:
i might be the only one in this thread who thinks that academic cheating is in NO WAY unethical. i perfectly condone cheating because life is a race and formal education is overall BS. i don't cheat myself, but bravo to anyone who has the balls to cheat rampantly. great reward, huge risk. if you get caught lying on your amcas somehow at any point during med school, then they will kick you out.
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While I do agree that university in this country has moved away from being a place of education to being a rat race, I don't think cheating is the answer. You're undermining education when you cheat, and adding to the problem.
 
inycepoo said:
I agree. The reward is very lucrative and great.

So **** medicine and formal education, guys. I'm robbing the next armored vehicle that stops at the neighborhood bank. Life is a race and I'm gonna gun down all y'all naive academic bitches for sure.
Click to expand...

lol good job equating cheating to crime. you must have done well on verbal.
 
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