I am looking for some personalized advice about getting into a post-bacc program

[blueadams]

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Hello,

Like I stated in the title, I am looking for some personalized advice about getting into a post-bacc program. So, I'm going to give a little background here. If you have any advice after reading, please, let me know. Any help would be greatly appreciated...

I had great grades and test scores in high school, so I got into one of the best public universities in the nation. I spent my first year there, but I transfered to the top private liberal arts school in our state because I wanted more personal attention. I was not sure what I wanted to do career-wise at that point, so I chose our school's broadest major - History.

I have since decided that I want to be a doctor. I had about a 2.65 gpa in my one year at the large public university. I still have one semester at the private liberal arts school, but I should graduate with about a 3.3 gpa there. I have taken four science courses, intro chemistry (C+), intro chemistry lab (B-), and intro biology (B-) at the large public school, and another intro biology (B-) course at the small liberal arts school.

I realize that those grades are not all that great, but I was not all that interested in the sciences at the time (it should also be noted that both schools I attented were quite prestigious). Now that I am committed to pursuing a career in the medical field, I think that I should be able to get at least A-/B+ grades in these sorts of courses. Please, do not get me wrong, I am a hard worker, its just that I was a bit "lost" as an undergraduate student.

So, here's the deal: I want to get into a top notch post-bacc program. The problem is that my grades (my science grades in particular) are not all that great. How should I go about solving THIS problem!? Is it going to be possible for me to reach this goal!? I know the basic answers (get reseatch experience and volunteer experience), but I want to set myself apart. There are two things that are coming to mind right now...#1) volunteer at one or medical clinics in some third world countries, and #2) to get some research experience with professors at the actual post-bacc program I want to get into. Does anyone else have any?

Please let me know what you think! Any help WHATSOEVER would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

Sincerely,

Blue

 

[dapmp91]

well, take my advice with a grain of salt, but you really need to focus on your GPA-try to start making at least solid B's if not A's. Volunteer and all that other crap is not gonna get you into medical school if your GPA is only a 2 point something. I know this is harsh sry. As for you wanting to go into a top notch SMP program, remember you have to do well in any program to be competitive for medical school. Get at least a solid 3.0 GPA and shoot for a high MCAT. Do a postbacc and see if you can get into DO or MD school. And no its not impossible for you to go into medical school but it will require hard work-study hard. Remember at any postbacc presitigious or not you have to present your work as superior-shoot for a 3.5 at least in the SMP. But for you focus on your GPA and take the MCAT when you are ready

 

[dapmp91]

oh and by the way, I was also kind of lost during undergrad 🙂 just make sure to commit to yourself to work hard, and don't try to rush things-med school is always gonna be there

 

[Nuggles]

[Note: everything I say here is basically a regurgitation of what has been said on this forum, so do take it with a pinch of salt!]

From the sounds of it you are still a long way from finishing all of the pre-reqs required for medical school. Is it safe to assume you are considering a career-changer post-bac program?

If that is the case, unfortunately it's going to be hard for you to get into the best post-bac programs (generally agreed to be Scripps, Bryn Mawr and Goucher, in no particular order) with your current grades. These three programs are extremely competitive; I highly doubt a ~3.14 GPA (3.3*3/4+2.65*1/4) is going to cut it. The majority of people being accepted into these three programs have good grades and good extracurriculars. Good extracurriculars alone will not make up for your low GPA. I would not get my hopes up too high if I was in your position. Also, it should be pointed out that the prestige of a university doesn't matter when you are getting mediocre grades.

Your current course of action should be to first finish all of your prereqs. This could be done either at your current university (this will save a lot of hassle), local community college, or at a post-bacc program. The problem with the latter choice, of course, is your low GPA (you will probably need to settle for a somewhat less prestigious program if you want to do a post-bacc program). Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you do exceedingly well on all of your remaining pre-reqs, your current GPA is still going to hurt you considerably. e.g. even if you get 2 full years of straight A's, your cumulative GPA is still only going to be ~3.4. Even in this most ideal situation, you still only have a ~50-50 shot of getting into a medical school, assuming you get a MCAT score of 30-32 (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm).

After you have finished all of your pre-reqs and taken the MCAT, you should decide whether or not you are competitive for medical school. If you are not (and I think that this will be the most likely scenario), you should consider going to a SMP program. A 3.14 GPA is already very competitive for these types of programs, so you shouldn't have too much trouble getting into one after you have finished your pre-reqs (but do consider all of its downsides though; in particular, if you do poorly in a SMP, that's pretty much the end of the road for you..). If you do a SMP, your SMP GPA will be shown as seperate from your undergraduate GPA (in your case, this is a good thing!). Assuming you do well in the SMP, you should have a very good chance of getting into a medical school.

So to sum up: my advice (remember: a pinch of salt!) would be to first finish all of your medical school pre-reqs. Where you do it doesn't really matter all too much, just be sure to ace the courses. Afterwards, should your GPA still be too low to apply directly to medical school, consider going into a SMP to further strengthen your application.

Good luck, and like dapmp91 said: don't rush. It will be a few years before you can realistically expect to apply to medical school. And it's unlikely the medical schools are going to grow legs during this time 🙂

 

[blueadams]

Thank you for the advice!

Two things:

#1) Post-bacc programs: I hear what you're saying about it not really mattering where you get your post-bacc (or pre-reqs). But it seems like it does, as the top post-bacc programs have such high medical school acceptance rates. So, I think that I'm going to do my best to get into those. If I can NOT get into a top notch post-bacc program, and I go to a lesser known one, if I were to graduate from there with a 3.0-3.5 gpa, and if I were to do alright on the MCATs.....would I have a shot at getting into med school!?

#2) Do it yourself programs: How about signing up for all of the pre-med prerequisites at a local junior/community college!? It seems like the classes would be much, much easier there than at the ivy-league type school that I am at right now. It would also be much cheaper. If I could get all A's and B's in my remaining pre-reqs there, and I did alright on the MCATs.....would I have a shot at getting into med school!?

 

[deleted248403]

#2) Do it yourself programs: How about signing up for all of the pre-med prerequisites at a local junior/community college!? It seems like the classes would be much, much easier there than at the ivy-league type school that I am at right now. It would also be much cheaper. If I could get all A's and B's in my remaining pre-reqs there, and I did alright on the MCATs.....would I have a shot at getting into med school!?

Community college classes are much much easier, but med-schools know that. If you got a 4.0 at your local community college, despite having a "4.0" GPA they'd laugh at you and ignore your grades and ask you to take them at a 4-yr school. To be brutally honest, if you can't get As and Bs in your pre-reqs at a 4yr school, you aren't really competitive unless you want to go abroad

 

[Nuggles]

#1) Post-bacc programs: I hear what you're saying about it not really mattering where you get your post-bacc (or pre-reqs). But it seems like it does, as the top post-bacc programs have such high medical school acceptance rates. So, I think that I'm going to do my best to get into those. If I can NOT get into a top notch post-bacc program, and I go to a lesser known one, if I were to graduate from there with a 3.0-3.5 gpa, and if I were to do alright on the MCATs.....would I have a shot at getting into med school!?

It's true that the top post-bacc programs have a ~100% placement rate into medical schools; however, you need to keep in mind that the students who are accepted into these programs in the first place went into the program with stellar GPAs and extracurriculars. It's true that the top post-bacc programs do give you distinct advantages that the other options do not offer (e.g. close-knit communities, advisors who have connections with medical schools, courses designed for post-bacc students, prestige of the program etc.); however, had these students gone to a less prestigious post-bacc program to do their pre-reqs, they would probably have been just as successful (they were very good students to begin with).

Another thing to note is that you really need to do well above a 3.0 in your post-bac in order to be considered competitive for medical schools (without a SMP). Even a 3.5 at your post-bac program might be a hard sell. Your current GPA is already weighing you down quite a bit; getting more mediocre grades isn't going to scream "accept me" to the admissions office at the medical schools. You absolutely need to be acing the post-bac courses so you can say that you have turned the proverbial leaf and that you are now indeed capable of getting A's on a consistent basis. Or at least that's how I feel about the matter.

And going from an ivy league school to a community college to do your pre-reqs IS going to look like you're taking the 'easy route' out. If you plan on doing the DIY route, you will need to do the prereqs at an equally respectable 4 year university. I mispoke on that earlier, so forget I mentioned it at all!

 

[blueadams]

well, nuggles and others that have been so kind in showing an interest in me, here is my game plan:

I think that I am going to enroll in the best post-bacc program that I can get into (and I am basing 'best' on percentage accepted into medical school). It seems like this path is more simple and advanageous. Its more expensive, but honestly, who cares. If I'm going to be in debt from 4yrs of medical school anyways, what's one more year. From that point on, I am going to bust my hump to do the absolute best I can. Hopefully it will be enough to get into medical school. If not, we'll see, there are some nice alternatives (doctor of physical therapy, for instance?).

So, maybe I am not going to be able to get into the best post-bacc programs. But I want to get into the best one that I CAN GET INTO. So what can I do to maximize my chances here. Should I be doing research? What kind? With who? Should I be doing volunteer work? again...what kind? with who? etc. Is there something I could be doing that will really, really set me apart?

 

[Nuggles]

I think that I am going to enroll in the best post-bacc program that I can get into (and I am basing 'best' on percentage accepted into medical school). It seems like this path is more simple and advanageous. Its more expensive, but honestly, who cares. If I'm going to be in debt from 4yrs of medical school anyways, what's one more year. From that point on, I am going to bust my hump to do the absolute best I can. Hopefully it will be enough to get into medical school. If not, we'll see, there are some nice alternatives (doctor of physical therapy, for instance?).

So, maybe I am not going to be able to get into the best post-bacc programs. But I want to get into the best one that I CAN GET INTO. So what can I do to maximize my chances here. Should I be doing research? What kind? With who? Should I be doing volunteer work? again...what kind? with who? etc. Is there something I could be doing that will really, really set me apart?

Remember to also look at SMPs! They provide students with less-than-stellar-GPAs another chance at getting into med school. Obviously though, you should avoid them if you can get into a medical school with just your pre-reqs done.

Also, apart from only looking at the top 3 programs, you should also consider Harvard Extension (HES). I have heard very good things about HES; the quality of the education you'll receive there is great, the courses are dirt cheap ($800 per course--well maybe not dirt cheap, but you get my point!) and I have heard that they accept almost everyone who applies. The only restriction you'll have if you go to HES is that you will not be eligible for their diploma program. HES's acceptance rate to medical school is over 90% I believe, for the students who qualify for the committee letter. All in all, HES is a very respected program (many of my professors also spoke highly of it).

Another program to consider is the post-bacc program at UPenn, I've heard that their acceptance rate for the past few years has been around 90-95% as well. I will be going there this September, so I could probably give you some more details once I'm there. But overall, it seems like a very solid program as well! UPenn is considerably more expensive than HES though.

As for what you could do now to improve your chances of getting into the best post-bacc programs possible, getting some clinical and/or research experience is definately a good place to start. Find places that will actually let you do something meaningful. Most hospital volunteers, for example, will be tasked mostly with administrative duties; they will not have direct contact with patients. Volunteering at an hospice, on the other hand, will give you a lot more opportunity to really get a feel for what medicine is like. You don't necessarily need to be shipping yourself off to other countries in order to prove that you're dedicated to medicine.

In my opinion (hope you still have some salt handy!), instead of trying to do something that noone else has done before (e.g. flying over to Africa; but even then there are already hundreds of others who are in your position over there right now), you should instead be looking to get quality out of your volunteering experiences. If you can find a place that can bring out and show your passion for medicine, that I think, is already enough to set you apart.

And lastly, at the expense of sounding like a broken record, it has to be said that while extra-curriculars are important and necessary in any good application, they are not capable of fully repairing the damage done by your GPA. A professor (who also has been an adcom before) once told me that the most important criteria for admissions are, in no particular order: cumulative GPA, science GPA, MCAT score, and letters of recommendation. Medical schools are looking first and foremost for people who are capable of doing well academically (just imagine a doctor who misdiagnosed a patient and then saying "if it makes you feel any better, I once volunteered in Africa" to cheer the patient up). Extra-curriculars, while important, are often seen as these "well that's kind of cool" activities that you do on the side (a minor caveat: this is just one adcom's view; I'm sure there are other adcoms who would argue that extra-curriculars are just as important).

So in short, the best way, in my opinion, to get into the best post-bacc program possible is to find a way to demonstrate your passion for medicine (this will help immensely on the "why I want to pursue medicine" portions of the interview and application). Also, if possible, find some way to prove to the post-bacc programs that you are now ready and capable of doing well academically (I'm unsure of how this might be achieved though).

And once again, best of luck blueadams!

 

[NewmansOwn]

Ok, we need to slow down just a bit here.

First, a formal postbac program (ie - the aforementioned Bryn Mawr, Goucher, Scripps, Penn, etc...) will NOT accept you. You have taken too many of the prereqs. These programs are for career changers -- people who haven't taken more than 1 of the classes. Having taken 1/2 the prereqs, you're in a sticky situation. Your best chance is to take many years of classes at your local 4-year in the hopes of raising your GPA.

I know you want to go to the best postbac program you can and I applaud that, but I have to tell you -- it's going to be much longer than 1 year before you'll be in medical school. Since you're already gotten mediocre grades in a number of the prereqs, you've got quite a lot to prove.

The classes aren't any harder at your school(s). The kids may or may not be a bit sharper, but everyone has to learn the same stuff and it'll all even out when you take the MCAT. If you manage to creep by taking "easier" courses, you'll just get slammed during the MCAT.

Hang in there. This is doable, but you'll need (I'd venture to guess) 3 years of classes plus volunteer work and, if you get the opportunity, research experience.