I am so F****** sick of med students!!!

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anyway OP.. there must be some Muslims in your class? you should hang out with us, we don't drink and party :). can't speak to their personalities though..

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I agree, but there's a difference between clever writing with subtext and a jangle of the biggest words you could fetch out of the thesaurus.
i liked the "irrationally rational" part
lol
 
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... I am absolutely BAFFLED by the behavior and attitude of medical students. I can say with conviction that ironically, medical students are a lot less "classy" and mature than in many other professions with less education requirements. It just strikes me as very ironic. It was not at all what I expected.

This is interesting --- you are not alone in thinking this way. :)

I am not a medical student, but my good friend's girlfriend is currently an MS-2. She tells us stories about exactly this kind of behavior (childishness, wild parties, promiscuity). So, others do notice what you are talking about as well.

I was in engineering for undergrad (another professional school, I suppose), and my class was definitely different from what you described.

My friend and I sometimes wonder about what kinds of people are going to be doctors.

BUT, and this is a pretty big but, what is wrong with people "working hard and playing hard"? This behavior is childish and unsophisticated, but why not let people have their fun? Why not, as others have said, let these kids enjoy life (their way)?

On the other hand, this argument doesn't explain the other traits (like being condescending, picky, annoying, and gossipy).
 
Given the type A predominance and the tendency for there to be a lot of personalities compressed into a very small environment, I personally think that it isn't so much that these behaviors are more common in medical students but that there is greater criticism and visibility of them.
 
The faculty pisses me off just as much when it comes to the "science thing."

Their obsession with initials after their names makes me want to puke. Every single document we get sent with an instructors name on it has the long string of initials after the name. The world would go to hell in a handbasket if we didn't know what kind of degree someone had because apparently you can't process anything said or written by someone without knowing his/her educational background.

After 6 months of med school, I have decided that I want to be as far, far away from academic medicine as humanly possible. I want to graduate, attend a community residency program and have my own practice. And I get pissed when I hear faculty members lecture politically charged topics at us, telling us that doctors will soon no longer be on their own, we will all be on salary by private hospitals and the government, and this is a good thing.

I am so sick of how the word research is constantly rammed down our throats, especially when the purpose of such "research" is assumed academic prestige. Working in a large, academic/research-based university hospital is my own definition of hell. I came into medicine because I wanted my own practice and my own patients, and to run things my way, and this has been presented as an impossibility to us from day one, and pretty much this kind of career goal is looked down upon by the administration and most of the science faculty.

There are med schools out there whose goal is to produce community physicians, but I didn't really understand the difference between those schools and university hospitals/research centers until now.

OP, there are plenty of people who feel the same way, and my advice to you is to strive for what I am trying to do, and that is to get out there in the community and have your own practice, and to fight "big medicine" policy that is trying to drive doctors out of private practice and into hospital groups.
 
So granted I am one. But I think I'm an anomaly.

Is it just me or does communicating with fellow medical students leave you frustrated and annoyed?? Why is it that science people tend to criticize and overanalyze everything you do or say?? Or passive aggressively make statements that are supposed to irk you into a debate??

Ok, GUNNER I don't want to debate/argue/make a point for you. I don't want to talk to you and have you look at me as if you were looking through a magnifying glass.

Ugh and yet I have to see these people every day with their righteous, I'm better than GOD attitudes.

Does everyone in this profession have such an inflated ego??? I swear, I have not found one normal, uncritical person - everyone has that stupid "science" mentality and God forbid you misuse a verb.

Also, why do people act like they are high school freshmen? I mean, honestly - keg stands for God's sake?! rumors?! calling people odd if they don't attend these stupid parties where a ping pong ball gets tossed around into gross cups of stale cheap beer, or if they don't sleep with every other person in the class?? what is this?? how is this an f****** profession? and yet they feel that they have a right to judge you. ew. what am I doing here? why did I expect something else? I can't believe the route to becoming such an important figure in people's lives is paved with so much unnecessary bull****.

:laugh: you need to chill man......

for that bolded line: where do you go to school? If you have some cute girls, tell them to PM me... I can give them some good-time REAL Good :D I am not an MS I or II... more than that ;)
 
For someone who is thoroughly disgusted by your classmates' behavior, you care an awful lot about what they think. I agree that there's a lot of regression to undergrad in med school, but to get so worked up about it is equally juvenile, IMHO.

Projects superiority and condescension, uses others moments of weakness to pad own ego / assuage insecurities, concept of empathy and understanding hasn't been seen since personal statement draft 6.
 
The faculty pisses me off just as much when it comes to the "science thing."

Their obsession with initials after their names makes me want to puke. Every single document we get sent with an instructors name on it has the long string of initials after the name. The world would go to hell in a handbasket if we didn't know what kind of degree someone had because apparently you can't process anything said or written by someone without knowing his/her educational background.

After 6 months of med school, I have decided that I want to be as far, far away from academic medicine as humanly possible. I want to graduate, attend a community residency program and have my own practice. And I get pissed when I hear faculty members lecture politically charged topics at us, telling us that doctors will soon no longer be on their own, we will all be on salary by private hospitals and the government, and this is a good thing.

I am so sick of how the word research is constantly rammed down our throats, especially when the purpose of such "research" is assumed academic prestige. Working in a large, academic/research-based university hospital is my own definition of hell. I came into medicine because I wanted my own practice and my own patients, and to run things my way, and this has been presented as an impossibility to us from day one, and pretty much this kind of career goal is looked down upon by the administration and most of the science faculty.

There are med schools out there whose goal is to produce community physicians, but I didn't really understand the difference between those schools and university hospitals/research centers until now.

OP, there are plenty of people who feel the same way, and my advice to you is to strive for what I am trying to do, and that is to get out there in the community and have your own practice, and to fight "big medicine" policy that is trying to drive doctors out of private practice and into hospital groups.

My brother form another mother! (sorry if you're female, but sister doesn't rhyme with another or mother)

The Pan-scientific-savior theory is the biggest bill of good sold to suckers anywhere. Man. People can't even get jobs. Genomic medicine--the thing oft preached from our pulpit--is a pipe dream. A pharmaco-funded crack pipe dream.

Thing is. With the way the economy is headed your model might be the last one standing. Back to as-needed fee for service. There seem to be these springing up to meet demand. Just a doc and a subway system, making fee for service visits for people who need periodic medical care and cannot afford 1500 a month to support a vastly disproportionate herd of dying old people. HMO's, even non-profit ones seem tied to large employment contracts for sustainability. Having worked for one, the out of pocket paying customer was the anomaly. And loosing patients who lost their jobs was a daily thing.

This generation of graying scientists, riding their tenure trains into the sunset, having just been brought up through the absolute pinnacle of the American empire, and now getting off wanting to impart wild projections about the future of our career, are an evolutionarily dead end species. And their cold war inspired ideology of science saving the planet, outsmarting nature, and saving us from all that is unholy, is now the theater of the absurd.

I don't even have the heart to call them on it. I just wave and smile.

Medical academics is a thow-up-in-my-mouth experience for me too. I want a community residency and job. I am lucky enough to be at a school that is down tempo in it's hype of research-as-success model. But it's everywhere now. Everyone has Havard penis envy. And you make it through the ranks of academia in medicine by just exactly how much of this jizz you swallow. Whether your playing for the fresno mudhens or the MGH nerd-gangsters. And they in turn police the ranks for apprentices and successors. And we all get measured accordingly.

And that is what is so sickening sometimes. Competing against pricks to impress pricks on how much of a prick I am. On and on for the rest of my career.

Yeah. Medicine is a good gig. Studying it is fine. Even interesting at times. But the culture. Sucks. It's f@cking humorless.

I'm only uplifted by the fact that most are sold on the ideas of presitige which makes my job less glamorous. And therefore less stressful in obtaining.

(sorry. a little extra wind in my bag today.)
 
This generation of graying scientists, riding their tenure trains into the sunset, having just been brought up through the absolute pinnacle of the American empire, and now getting off wanting to impart wild projections about the future of our career, are an evolutionarily dead end species. And their cold war inspired ideology of science saving the planet, outsmarting nature, and saving us from all that is unholy, is now the theater of the absurd.

= Awesome
 
I'm glad to hear that there at least a couple other people like me in this profession. My classmates don't give me much hope. I can see them buying more and more into the culture of academic elitism every day.

We spent a lot of our first semester having to read research papers. I read them. I laughed. When I got to the end at saw upwards of 150 REFERENCES FOR A 5 PAGE PAPER, I laughed even harder. When I saw identical papers published by different people citing the same 150 references, it stopped being funny. Some of these papers have 30 different authors!!!!! 2 months in, I realized that these people, these scientists are writing papers and doing "research" solely in order to get published. The goal is to get your name on as many papers as possible, speak at as many conferences as possible, and get the most absurdly long c.v. as possible. It's a CONTEST. If you don't play the game, you get fired. Because you don't work for yourself. You're at the mercy of the program, and this is what the program wants.

Where does the meaningful **** actually get done? Private industry. But they don't tell us this. Private industry is the enemy. Capitalism is bad. Socialism is good, etc., etc., etc.

Two months in, first year students are already asking, "how do I get published?" "What kind of research do I have to do to get published?" "Can I get a publication over the summer?" Ad naseum...

L

O

L
 
The faculty pisses me off just as much when it comes to the "science thing."

Their obsession with initials after their names makes me want to puke. Every single document we get sent with an instructors name on it has the long string of initials after the name. The world would go to hell in a handbasket if we didn't know what kind of degree someone had because apparently you can't process anything said or written by someone without knowing his/her educational background.

After 6 months of med school, I have decided that I want to be as far, far away from academic medicine as humanly possible. I want to graduate, attend a community residency program and have my own practice. And I get pissed when I hear faculty members lecture politically charged topics at us, telling us that doctors will soon no longer be on their own, we will all be on salary by private hospitals and the government, and this is a good thing.

I am so sick of how the word research is constantly rammed down our throats, especially when the purpose of such "research" is assumed academic prestige. Working in a large, academic/research-based university hospital is my own definition of hell. I came into medicine because I wanted my own practice and my own patients, and to run things my way, and this has been presented as an impossibility to us from day one, and pretty much this kind of career goal is looked down upon by the administration and most of the science faculty.
:bow: I feel the same way.
 
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I'm glad to hear that there at least a couple other people like me in this profession. My classmates don't give me much hope. I can see them buying more and more into the culture of academic elitism every day.

We spent a lot of our first semester having to read research papers. I read them. I laughed. When I got to the end at saw upwards of 150 REFERENCES FOR A 5 PAGE PAPER, I laughed even harder. When I saw identical papers published by different people citing the same 150 references, it stopped being funny. Some of these papers have 30 different authors!!!!! 2 months in, I realized that these people, these scientists are writing papers and doing "research" solely in order to get published. The goal is to get your name on as many papers as possible, speak at as many conferences as possible, and get the most absurdly long c.v. as possible. It's a CONTEST. If you don't play the game, you get fired. Because you don't work for yourself. You're at the mercy of the program, and this is what the program wants.

Where does the meaningful **** actually get done? Private industry. But they don't tell us this. Private industry is the enemy. Capitalism is bad. Socialism is good, etc., etc., etc.

Two months in, first year students are already asking, "how do I get published?" "What kind of research do I have to do to get published?" "Can I get a publication over the summer?" Ad naseum...

L

O

L

This = why SDN needs a rep system. :thumbup:
 
Just to further that point a bit, I'm probably going to be published soon for doing a couple PANSS evaluations on a patient of mine. That's right: I'll have an authorship - second author, even - for under 2 hours of work. That, my friends, is scientific progress. :thumbup:
 
Just to further that point a bit, I'm probably going to be published soon for doing a couple PANSS evaluations on a patient of mine. That's right: I'll have an authorship - second author, even - for under 2 hours of work. That, my friends, is scientific progress. :thumbup:

But damn, I bet you're gonna get that <insert here> residency now. Your publication shows that you are so much more qualified. It's such a joke. Glad to see it's not going to your head though. I wish everyone were like that. Sigh...
 
I don't know about that last paragraph, but for the rest of it, it's because most of us didn't have social lives, so we a) didn't get to iron out our oddities and b) need to feel good about ourselves somehow. This also explains why some (most?) surgeons continue to behave like this.

So granted I am one. But I think I'm an anomaly.

Is it just me or does communicating with fellow medical students leave you frustrated and annoyed?? Why is it that science people tend to criticize and overanalyze everything you do or say?? Or passive aggressively make statements that are supposed to irk you into a debate??

Ok, GUNNER I don't want to debate/argue/make a point for you. I don't want to talk to you and have you look at me as if you were looking through a magnifying glass.

Ugh and yet I have to see these people every day with their righteous, I'm better than GOD attitudes.

Does everyone in this profession have such an inflated ego??? I swear, I have not found one normal, uncritical person - everyone has that stupid "science" mentality and God forbid you misuse a verb.

Also, why do people act like they are high school freshmen? I mean, honestly - keg stands for God's sake?! rumors?! calling people odd if they don't attend these stupid parties where a ping pong ball gets tossed around into gross cups of stale cheap beer, or if they don't sleep with every other person in the class?? what is this?? how is this an f****** profession? and yet they feel that they have a right to judge you. ew. what am I doing here? why did I expect something else? I can't believe the route to becoming such an important figure in people's lives is paved with so much unnecessary bull****.
 
What the hell is wrong with Beer pong, keg stands and promiscuity?

Especially since people who play beer pong, do keg stands, and are promiscuous tend to be anti-gunner/grammar nazi (which you also hate).

I've got your solution: Clone yourself 99 times over + fill a class with your clones = Happiness for you.

You are a paradox: Uptight and laid-back at the same time.

You aren't required to socialize with your classmates to get your degree. Just don't be upset when everyone goes on living their lives without you.

At any rate, "professionalism" as applied by the powers that be at Med School to encompass some absurd standard of living that allows you all the flexibility of a Gregorian Monk with your meager social calender is over-rated.

We can all agree that there are some very basic tenants of professionalism that we should adhere too. Legal activities that I choose to do on my own time are my own business.
 
Projects superiority and condescension, uses others moments of weakness to pad own ego / assuage insecurities, concept of empathy and understanding hasn't been seen since personal statement draft 6.

:laugh:

Brilliant.
 
So granted I am one. But I think I'm an anomaly.

Is it just me or does communicating with fellow medical students leave you frustrated and annoyed?? Why is it that science people tend to criticize and overanalyze everything you do or say?? Or passive aggressively make statements that are supposed to irk you into a debate??

Ok, GUNNER I don't want to debate/argue/make a point for you. I don't want to talk to you and have you look at me as if you were looking through a magnifying glass.

Ugh and yet I have to see these people every day with their righteous, I'm better than GOD attitudes.

Does everyone in this profession have such an inflated ego??? I swear, I have not found one normal, uncritical person - everyone has that stupid "science" mentality and God forbid you misuse a verb.

Also, why do people act like they are high school freshmen? I mean, honestly - keg stands for God's sake?! rumors?! calling people odd if they don't attend these stupid parties where a ping pong ball gets tossed around into gross cups of stale cheap beer, or if they don't sleep with every other person in the class?? what is this?? how is this an f****** profession? and yet they feel that they have a right to judge you. ew. what am I doing here? why did I expect something else? I can't believe the route to becoming such an important figure in people's lives is paved with so much unnecessary bull****.

Everyone in your class cannot be like the people you described in the last paragraph. Med school is like any other group of people who forced to see each other a lot - the like minded ones usually gravitate towards each other. Try organizing stuff you like and inviting people to it.

Unless you think the keg standers will throw you under the bus on clinical rotations why do you care what they think of you?
 
'
 
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Side note: so much verbosity in one thread...

I'm glad to hear that there at least a couple other people like me in this profession. My classmates don't give me much hope. I can see them buying more and more into the culture of academic elitism every day.

We spent a lot of our first semester having to read research papers. I read them. I laughed. When I got to the end at saw upwards of 150 REFERENCES FOR A 5 PAGE PAPER, I laughed even harder. When I saw identical papers published by different people citing the same 150 references, it stopped being funny. Some of these papers have 30 different authors!!!!! 2 months in, I realized that these people, these scientists are writing papers and doing "research" solely in order to get published. The goal is to get your name on as many papers as possible, speak at as many conferences as possible, and get the most absurdly long c.v. as possible. It's a CONTEST. If you don't play the game, you get fired. Because you don't work for yourself. You're at the mercy of the program, and this is what the program wants.

Where does the meaningful **** actually get done? Private industry. But they don't tell us this. Private industry is the enemy. Capitalism is bad. Socialism is good, etc., etc., etc.

Two months in, first year students are already asking, "how do I get published?" "What kind of research do I have to do to get published?" "Can I get a publication over the summer?" Ad naseum...

L

O

L

Pretty sad but true in a lot of cases. Publish or perish. What frustrates me is how much pointless crap that gets published that is just more BS to wade through when you're actually trying to find support for your study. Of course all that BS is still getting added to the Reference list. :rolleyes:
 
In high school and first couple of years of undergrad I lived at home..and my attitude was similar to the OPs. I thought - why are people doing keg stands and having a good time? Shouldn't we all be sipping wines and discussing Plato and dressing really formally and doing everything so properly?? hahaha....that's how I pictured things.
My fun was sports and books.

I then discovered some green stuff and realized there's a whole new world to University Life. the underground rap wannabes, the rock bands, the free love, the open bars.

Honestly buddy, I can appreciate hard work but go have a good time once in a while!! and don't ever talk about anything school related at a party. I used to go to parties in first year and say something like "that was an interesting forumla on the orgo test last night" while holding a beer in my hand. WTF was I thinking!!???~!!!
I blame living at home.

Get free man...have fun in this life, it is the only time you can!

:thumbup:
 
My brother form another mother! (sorry if you're female, but sister doesn't rhyme with another or mother)

The Pan-scientific-savior theory is the biggest bill of good sold to suckers anywhere. Man. People can't even get jobs. Genomic medicine--the thing oft preached from our pulpit--is a pipe dream. A pharmaco-funded crack pipe dream.

Thing is. With the way the economy is headed your model might be the last one standing. Back to as-needed fee for service. There seem to be these springing up to meet demand. Just a doc and a subway system, making fee for service visits for people who need periodic medical care and cannot afford 1500 a month to support a vastly disproportionate herd of dying old people. HMO's, even non-profit ones seem tied to large employment contracts for sustainability. Having worked for one, the out of pocket paying customer was the anomaly. And loosing patients who lost their jobs was a daily thing.

This generation of graying scientists, riding their tenure trains into the sunset, having just been brought up through the absolute pinnacle of the American empire, and now getting off wanting to impart wild projections about the future of our career, are an evolutionarily dead end species. And their cold war inspired ideology of science saving the planet, outsmarting nature, and saving us from all that is unholy, is now the theater of the absurd.

I don't even have the heart to call them on it. I just wave and smile.

Medical academics is a thow-up-in-my-mouth experience for me too. I want a community residency and job. I am lucky enough to be at a school that is down tempo in it's hype of research-as-success model. But it's everywhere now. Everyone has Havard penis envy. And you make it through the ranks of academia in medicine by just exactly how much of this jizz you swallow. Whether your playing for the fresno mudhens or the MGH nerd-gangsters. And they in turn police the ranks for apprentices and successors. And we all get measured accordingly.

And that is what is so sickening sometimes. Competing against pricks to impress pricks on how much of a prick I am. On and on for the rest of my career.

Yeah. Medicine is a good gig. Studying it is fine. Even interesting at times. But the culture. Sucks. It's f@cking humorless.

I'm only uplifted by the fact that most are sold on the ideas of presitige which makes my job less glamorous. And therefore less stressful in obtaining.

(sorry. a little extra wind in my bag today.)


slow....c.l.a.p... :claps:
 
If you think you can´t stand 23 year olds in the U.S., imagine 17-18 year olds in Latin America, and being much older than these kids. I´m a dual national by marriage and decided to study medicine in my husband´s country. Here one starts medical school right after high school. In addition to being immature, these kids are lazy and ... dare I say it?... a bit stupid.

Most of the classes consist of group projects with the students giving Powerpoint presentations. In several of my classes, at least one of my group members showed **literally** fifteen minutes before the class, asked if the presentation was ready and just read from the Powerpoint slides that I and other group members had prepared.

In one of my classes, we had several students show up drunk. They arrange themselves in exams in order to be able to cheat off of other students. And, they brag about cheating. These are future doctors, ladies and gentleman!

The professors miss class or leave early. Most of the professors are doctors who teach at the university to supplement their income. I had one professor miss several classes, show up for the next where he showed a video of one of his surgeries, give 24-hours notice for a quiz and 72-hours for the final exam.

Two points of advice: don´t go to the doctor in Ecuador and don´t go to med school in Ecuador if you can avoid it.
 
Everyone in your class cannot be like the people you described in the last paragraph. Med school is like any other group of people who forced to see each other a lot - the like minded ones usually gravitate towards each other. Try organizing stuff you like and inviting people to it.

Unless you think the keg standers will throw you under the bus on clinical rotations why do you care what they think of you?

This.

OP, bro, you need to relax. Yes it's probably tough going to school with people much younger than you and seeing them in class every day talk about how much they drink and how much they sleep around (yeah, right) but for god's sake we're still in our young 20s. When the hell are we ever going to get that opportunity? I take whatever opportunity I can to go out with friends and drink and whatever. I actually didn't go partying, drinking, or whatever during college because I didn't feel comfortable in those environments, but now that I'm with people that I enjoy having fun with, I am more willing to do so. Why is that so wrong? In a clinical setting I have a more professional attitude, of course... most people separate their private and professional lives.

As to the substance of what you wrote... yes, many people in med school suck. I think most of my class is full of themselves. You have cliques all over again - the rich kids with seemingly unlimited money, the former jocks, the gunners, the research nerds, the super-religious people, etc. Point is find a place where you fit in with some people and hang out with those people. It doesn't even have to be a "group" of people, just some people you have fun spending time with, studying with, etc. For example, I have a good friend who gets along with everyone and anyone and makes friends with the entire world. I can't STAND the stuck-up pretentious attitude of most of his friends, but I love chillin' with him and a few others. When it comes down to it we've formed a core group of people who feel comfortable with each other. I used to care too much like you about what others did or thought of me, and now I just don't give a crap because I'm comfy where I am.

Have I made enemies? Probably, though not of my own doing. That's inevitable in a place with egos, pretentious attitudes, and people trying to get ahead of their own accord without worrying about the consequences on others. The best thing is just to be NICE to people without worrying so much about whether they're nice to you back... it pays off later on. Ultimately just remember you're in school to get your degree, get some education, and move on. I left college and retained (aside from those who came to med school with me) maybe four or five really close friends who I will still contact years down the line. Same with high school, where I'm only still in touch with 3 or 4 people. I don't expect medical school to be much different.
 
It sounds to me like the OP might be a bit insecure. He/ she feels left out of the general proceedings, and rather than feeling comfortable with the fact that he or she might be different than everyone else, he/she chooses to dump on them. The problem is this attitude can cause you to miss out on people who actually are like you and who might be fun to hang out with.
 
What you are complaining about is more a Symptom of a larger problem with our generation and this country in general.

It's frustrating. I truly empathize with you but the fact that you are at a level of consciousness to where don't reflexively drink from the punch bowl spiked with meconium as the rest of the sheeple in it is reason for at least some self-congratulation.

Most of our peers are victim to the same petty bourgeoisie infantilization for the sake of mindless consumerism as everyone else in the irrationally rational society.

lmao I read this and was instantly reminded of the grad student pony-tailed dude in good will hunting who quotes Gordon Wood and attributes it to himself.
 
lmao I read this and was instantly reminded of the grad student pony-tailed dude in good will hunting who quotes Gordon Wood and attributes it to himself.

"Meconium". Somebody just got off of their pediatrics rotation and wanted to sound smart.
 
American kids don't grow up until they are in their 30's. It's pathetic and the men are just metrosexuals with no real balls.

The women are more manly than the men in most classes.
 
American kids don't grow up until they are in their 30's. It's pathetic and the men are just metrosexuals with no real balls.

The women are more manly than the men in most classes.

I'd bash you for painting with a paintbrush a mile wide, but I actually tend to agree with you on that first part. Sometimes.
 
American kids don't grow up until they are in their 30's. It's pathetic and the men are just metrosexuals with no real balls.

The women are more manly than the men in most classes.

I don't like "manly" men. I associate "manliness" with brashness and paternalistic attitudes.
 
This made me laugh because I have been corrected for improper verb tense.

I've also been grammatically corrected, on more than a few occasions...what is with that? No one really cares...it must be the English majors they've been encouraging into medicine. :idea:
 
So granted I am one. But I think I'm an anomaly.

Is it just me or does communicating with fellow medical students leave you frustrated and annoyed?? Why is it that science people tend to criticize and overanalyze everything you do or say?? Or passive aggressively make statements that are supposed to irk you into a debate??

Ok, GUNNER I don't want to debate/argue/make a point for you. I don't want to talk to you and have you look at me as if you were looking through a magnifying glass.

Ugh and yet I have to see these people every day with their righteous, I'm better than GOD attitudes.

Does everyone in this profession have such an inflated ego??? I swear, I have not found one normal, uncritical person - everyone has that stupid "science" mentality and God forbid you misuse a verb.

Also, why do people act like they are high school freshmen? I mean, honestly - keg stands for God's sake?! rumors?! calling people odd if they don't attend these stupid parties where a ping pong ball gets tossed around into gross cups of stale cheap beer, or if they don't sleep with every other person in the class?? what is this?? how is this an f****** profession? and yet they feel that they have a right to judge you. ew. what am I doing here? why did I expect something else? I can't believe the route to becoming such an important figure in people's lives is paved with so much unnecessary bull****.

Yeah, you're right about most of your points. But there's still nice people out there. And stop complaining, that's for the weaks.
 
interesting-thread.gif
 
Meh. I can see both sides on this issue.

Med school is one of those situations where you spend way too much time with people that have the potential to annoy the crap out of you, when they otherwise wouldn't on occasional interaction.

I really like pretty much all of my classmates. I have a small-ish class (~50) and can say hi and carry on a light conversation with any of them. I am an older student and live kind of far away, so my social life with my class centers around major events like white coat, mandatory classes, formal get-togethers, and hopefully graduation ;). I imagine there are some that would drive me nuts if I saw them 8+ hours a day, every day, just like former co-workers did.

Like several others, I don't go to classes that aren't mandatory. Our classes are podcast (mostly) so I do a lot of studying at home. And my sanity is better for it, probably :p

Don't be too hard on the OP - SDN is the place to vent steam if you need to. There are probably a ton of people lurking thinking the same thing as the OP.
 
If you think you can´t stand 23 year olds in the U.S., imagine 17-18 year olds in Latin America, and being much older than these kids. I´m a dual national by marriage and decided to study medicine in my husband´s country. Here one starts medical school right after high school. In addition to being immature, these kids are lazy and ... dare I say it?... a bit stupid.

Most of the classes consist of group projects with the students giving Powerpoint presentations. In several of my classes, at least one of my group members showed **literally** fifteen minutes before the class, asked if the presentation was ready and just read from the Powerpoint slides that I and other group members had prepared.

In one of my classes, we had several students show up drunk. They arrange themselves in exams in order to be able to cheat off of other students. And, they brag about cheating. These are future doctors, ladies and gentleman!
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HaHa I had to check twice to make sure I didn't write this message because its the same experience I'm having except on one of those tiny island schools. Its so sad when these same people speak about taking the USMLE exams when they can't pass a single class.
I honestly have no idea why they are there and wasting their time and money.
 
I'm sick of med students too, and here is the thing about this issue. I'm a med student. On paper you might think, hey, it will be so great hanging around all these other smart, unique people. Won't it be nice to spend time around people who are all pursuing a similar goal? The sense of camaraderie, etc. This is what I thought before starting med school. The reality is much different for me.

There is very much a stereotypical med student that I don't share much in common with. I really expected to encounter some dorky, interesting people in med school. Instead, there are a lot of people who are adept at looking good and socializing. People who are good at having a cool hair cut and finding a sweater to go over their matching collared shirt. I know this is a gross over-simplification but, it is something I notice.

Being in med school with 100 other people doing the exact same thing as me is BORING no matter how I approach it. It's not that I have anything specifically against any of my classmates. They're nice people. But they're med students. And on most days, the absolute last thing I want to do is talk to my classmates. If I do go to class, I pretty much keep to myself and sit in back.
 
I'm sick of med students too, and here is the thing about this issue. I'm a med student. On paper you might think, hey, it will be so great hanging around all these other smart, unique people. Won't it be nice to spend time around people who are all pursuing a similar goal? The sense of camaraderie, etc. This is what I thought before starting med school. The reality is much different for me.

There is very much a stereotypical med student that I don't share much in common with. I really expected to encounter some dorky, interesting people in med school. Instead, there are a lot of people who are adept at looking good and socializing. People who are good at having a cool hair cut and finding a sweater to go over their matching collared shirt. I know this is a gross over-simplification but, it is something I notice.

Being in med school with 100 other people doing the exact same thing as me is BORING no matter how I approach it. It's not that I have anything specifically against any of my classmates. They're nice people. But they're med students. And on most days, the absolute last thing I want to do is talk to my classmates. If I do go to class, I pretty much keep to myself and sit in back.

Not that I have anything against looking good, but I'm sure EVERYONE knows the one douche in their class who wears preppy clothes every day.

The rich kids annoy me the most, to be honest. The process in my mind usually goes something like "Thanks for showing me your daddy-gifted BMW jerkface, I'm gonna go drive my piece of crap Honda for the rest of medical school until I have a job and can make enough money to actually afford one". Then again I'm sure there's plenty of med students who are irresponsible enough with their money that this isn't even really the big issue.
 
I was older than most of my classmates in medical school, and not particularly interested in drinking, partying and promiscuity. But it never really bothered me that they were. Perhaps because it's fairly normal behavior for single people in that age group, and I had behaved similarly at the same age.

But I had friends who, like the OP, were very judgmental about it. In general, they were people who found fault with practically everything, and were difficult to like as a result.

Your classmates will grow up, eventually, and very few of them will still be doing much partying once they enter residency. In the meantime, cultivate some tolerance. It'll help you be a better doctor. And it's YOUR medical education you're there to obtain, not theirs.
 
So granted I am one. But I think I'm an anomaly.

Is it just me or does communicating with fellow medical students leave you frustrated and annoyed?? Why is it that science people tend to criticize and overanalyze everything you do or say?? Or passive aggressively make statements that are supposed to irk you into a debate??

Ok, GUNNER I don't want to debate/argue/make a point for you. I don't want to talk to you and have you look at me as if you were looking through a magnifying glass.

Ugh and yet I have to see these people every day with their righteous, I'm better than GOD attitudes.

Does everyone in this profession have such an inflated ego??? I swear, I have not found one normal, uncritical person - everyone has that stupid "science" mentality and God forbid you misuse a verb.

Also, why do people act like they are high school freshmen? I mean, honestly - keg stands for God's sake?! rumors?! calling people odd if they don't attend these stupid parties where a ping pong ball gets tossed around into gross cups of stale cheap beer, or if they don't sleep with every other person in the class?? what is this?? how is this an f****** profession? and yet they feel that they have a right to judge you. ew. what am I doing here? why did I expect something else? I can't believe the route to becoming such an important figure in people's lives is paved with so much unnecessary bull****.

In general my school is not at all like this. I'm sure people in my class have done some things on your list, but that is definitely the exception and not the rule. No one criticizes me for skipping parties/bars or not sleeping with classmates. Then again, I don't go around calling their activities gross, stupid, unprofessional, or bull****. I guess it's funny that you seem to be upset that people are judging you for your choices and yet you are judging them for theirs.
 
I'm glad to hear that there at least a couple other people like me in this profession. My classmates don't give me much hope. I can see them buying more and more into the culture of academic elitism every day.

We spent a lot of our first semester having to read research papers. I read them. I laughed. When I got to the end at saw upwards of 150 REFERENCES FOR A 5 PAGE PAPER, I laughed even harder. When I saw identical papers published by different people citing the same 150 references, it stopped being funny. Some of these papers have 30 different authors!!!!! 2 months in, I realized that these people, these scientists are writing papers and doing "research" solely in order to get published. The goal is to get your name on as many papers as possible, speak at as many conferences as possible, and get the most absurdly long c.v. as possible. It's a CONTEST. If you don't play the game, you get fired. Because you don't work for yourself. You're at the mercy of the program, and this is what the program wants.

Where does the meaningful **** actually get done? Private industry. But they don't tell us this. Private industry is the enemy. Capitalism is bad. Socialism is good, etc., etc., etc.

Two months in, first year students are already asking, "how do I get published?" "What kind of research do I have to do to get published?" "Can I get a publication over the summer?" Ad naseum...

L

O

L

If you think all the meaningful research is done in private industry then you are sadly mistaken. Sure there are some people who try to publish anything just to get their "numbers" up, but to generalize that to most academic work is wrong. A lot of time, even the stuff that ends up coming out of industry started in an academic lab funded by NIH grants. Academics have to do the early stuff because industry just isn't interested in developing it until you can show promise.

Hell, there was a recent mass cut of neuroscience research from big pharma because it just wasn't producing enough for their bottom line. Now they will just sit back and watch for anything promising to show up from academia and then license it.

I don't know what you are trying to say with your comments about capitalism and socialism. Academic research is far more like capitalism than socialism. It's cut throat competitive and no one is looking to give handouts.
 
Certainly. And also the line between capital markets and technical knowledge fields at universities is blurry. Distinction is no longer possible.

As to the relative merits of loosing your mind. It's a necessity. Perfected with practice. And if the insanity and psychoses of the medical school environment is preferable as a state of mind. You should be admitted/
 
OP, I understand how you are feeling. I'm one of the oldest in our class, and sometimes I don't agree with what some of my classmates do. It gets quite annoying sometimes. But in the bigger scheme of things, this is all petty trivialities. If you know what really matters to you in life, then what your classmates do really doesn't matter. Sometimes obnoxious behavior is a sign of insecurity, and all we can do it pity the person. Each person has to go through their growth phase, and rights of passage. It's not at the same pace for everyone. You had go through it at some point as well. If you think this way, it might lessen the frustration. Just focus on your goals, and and remind yourself you get to do the type of work you dreamed of doing (at least I'm assuming). Most people are not fortunate as we are in going to school. :)
 
I'm sick of med students too, and here is the thing about this issue. I'm a med student. On paper you might think, hey, it will be so great hanging around all these other smart, unique people. Won't it be nice to spend time around people who are all pursuing a similar goal? The sense of camaraderie, etc. This is what I thought before starting med school. The reality is much different for me.

There is very much a stereotypical med student that I don't share much in common with. I really expected to encounter some dorky, interesting people in med school. Instead, there are a lot of people who are adept at looking good and socializing. People who are good at having a cool hair cut and finding a sweater to go over their matching collared shirt. I know this is a gross over-simplification but, it is something I notice.

Being in med school with 100 other people doing the exact same thing as me is BORING no matter how I approach it. It's not that I have anything specifically against any of my classmates. They're nice people. But they're med students. And on most days, the absolute last thing I want to do is talk to my classmates. If I do go to class, I pretty much keep to myself and sit in back.

I don't find this to be the norm at my school whatsoever - I think a lot of them are typical uptight, severe Type A dorks from suburbia who don't have a clue about life outside of academia (excluding the non-trads and some others like myself). I've found that stereotypical medical student is just not who I am, and it sucks to not fit in with a group of people that you need to spend so much time with.

Thankfully, I go to a school with a class of almost 300, so there's a bit more variety than a much smaller class would have as far as personalities go, but the majority still seem to fit the stereotype.

I don't think it's fair to pick on the OP - medical school is very isolating and can be extremely lonely, and if you don't have someone in your life to vent to that would actually understand the situation - it's hard to relay some of these feelings to people who haven't been through it or something similar, because it's a very unique experience, imho. And SDN is supposed to be a place for STUDENT DOCTORS to talk about whatever they want - including the things they don't like or to simply vent, which is what the OP is clearly doing.

Sometimes you just need to blow off some steam: throw a tantrum, maybe have a good cry. I think it's much worse in the end if you bottle it all up for 4 years.
 
I understand how the OP feels. I have gone through the very same experience and sometimes I felt like quitting. Medical school can be a very inflammatory society sometimes. And you gotta be strong to make it. They are your classmates not friends, so care less about them.
 
Worked with a retired orthopod hot shot at the free clinic yesterday. Taught and served on the admissions committee at Stanford Med.

Him: You should train to be the best doctor you can be. You wouldn't believe how many hacks there are. But once you do, everyone will hate and envy you like you wouldn't believe.
Me: That sucks.
Him: What are you gonna do. That's life.
 
Tachyon is right about orthopods.

Question: how do you hide a $100 bill from an orthopedic surgeon?
Answer: put it in a textbook.
Question: How do you hide a $100 from a pediatrician?
Answer: You don't have to, they'll never see it
 
If you think all the meaningful research is done in private industry then you are sadly mistaken. Sure there are some people who try to publish anything just to get their "numbers" up, but to generalize that to most academic work is wrong. A lot of time, even the stuff that ends up coming out of industry started in an academic lab funded by NIH grants. Academics have to do the early stuff because industry just isn't interested in developing it until you can show promise.

Hell, there was a recent mass cut of neuroscience research from big pharma because it just wasn't producing enough for their bottom line. Now they will just sit back and watch for anything promising to show up from academia and then license it.

I don't know what you are trying to say with your comments about capitalism and socialism. Academic research is far more like capitalism than socialism. It's cut throat competitive and no one is looking to give handouts.
Completely agree with this. :thumbup:

I feel sorry for thefritz for having such a bad experience with research. So far, I've enjoyed academia and enjoy the thinking that research requires rather than the mindless memorization that my bio degree required. Maybe it's specific to my field of research, but it's not that common to find a paper with 150+ references unless it was a review article. Maybe the OP was exaggerating? "Identical papers" (which are rarely truly identical, in my experience) being published by independent labs is not a bad thing either. If two independent labs can get the same results, it further supports the data/conclusions.

I'd imagine that most papers you're reading in med school are related to clinical research rather than basic science research. If that's the case, I can easily understand why some papers have a lot of authors. Large, multi-center trials (which, again, I'd imagine you'd be reading rather than the smaller pilot studies or retrospectives or whatever) mean that a lot of people are involved in the study. Hence, many authorships.

Don't be so quick to paint research with such a broad brush. There are pros and cons to every field, even medicine.

Edit: I might have misread thefritz's post. You mentioned that you're reading a lot of papers "first semester." So, are you reading a ton of basic science papers then? Or is it clinical, like I originally assumed?
 
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