I can't get a job!

[Parts Unknown]

Here's an example of an excellent job market.

Radiology!

Company Name: Healthcare Staffing Solutions, Inc.
Title: No Buy In Partnership, PA - L008
Brief Description: Private practice of 8 full time and 2 part time rads seek another well rounded Radiologist (must do mammo) and a Mammographer.
Full Description: Private practice of 10 seeks another well rounded Raidologist. Must do all modalities excluding IR and nucs.. (mammo a must) Based in a 220 bed hospital with a hospital owned imaging center. 150,000 studies/yr. Nighthawk at 7pm. 425k, 8 weeks off. Partnership in 1 year earning in the 600’s. Will also look at a mammographer (can do other modalities but as much mammo as they want) for a NO CALL, non-partnership position. 425-450k, 10+ weeks off. (increase in salary and time off for employed position) Both get full family heath, max. contributions into pension, 5k cme stipend, disability. Contact Mark Baker; 800-621-0560; fax 954-752-9906.

That's funny, one of my siblings is a private practice radiologist in a major city out west, and he told me just last week the radiology job market has tanked. His group gets called every day by job seekers but they aren't hiring. The group he worked for previously (in a different major city out west) hasn't hired a single new radiologist this entire season, which is astonishing. Apparently the number of jobs posted on the major rads job board has plummeted. One of my cousins in the midwest is married to a recently graduated radiologist. They live near a major city, but he had to take a job almost two hours away. He keeps a separate apartment there and comes home when he can. It's a living.

His take is that the seemingly unbreakable radiology job market of the past 10+ years allowed residency programs to ramp up trainees tremendously. Unfortunately, cuts in reimbursement (with more looming), competition with non-rads groups who buy their own imaging equipment, and increasing productivity per radiologist, are driving their job market back to 1996. For those unfamiliar, 1996 was a year when the radiology job market made the pathology job market look like the dermatology job market.

That was his opinion, anyways.

Hey Unty, you should contact this PA group and see how many CVs they have received.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[2121115]

That's funny, one of my siblings is a private practice radiologist in a major city out west, and he told me just last week the radiology job market has tanked. His group gets called every day by job seekers but they aren't hiring. The group he worked for previously (in a different major city out west) hasn't hired a single new radiologist this entire season, which is astonishing. Apparently the number of jobs posted on the major rads job board has plummeted. One of my cousins in the midwest is married to a recently graduated radiologist. They live near a major city, but he had to take a job almost two hours away. He keeps a separate apartment there and comes home when he can. It's a living.

His take is that the seemingly unbreakable radiology job market of the past 10+ years allowed residency programs to ramp up trainees tremendously. Unfortunately, cuts in reimbursement (with more looming), competition with non-rads groups who buy their own imaging equipment, and increasing productivity per radiologist, are driving their job market back to 1996. For those unfamiliar, 1996 was a year when the radiology job market made the pathology job market look like the dermatology job market.

That was his opinion, anyways.

Hey Unty, you should contact this PA group and see how many CVs they have received.

My friend from medical school is finishing radiology residency and he says the same thing. Nothing is available. He is going to have to move far from where he trained to find a position.

 

[green mantis]

That's funny, one of my siblings is a private practice radiologist in a major city out west, and he told me just last week the radiology job market has tanked. His group gets called every day by job seekers but they aren't hiring. The group he worked for previously (in a different major city out west) hasn't hired a single new radiologist this entire season, which is astonishing. Apparently the number of jobs posted on the major rads job board has plummeted. One of my cousins in the midwest is married to a recently graduated radiologist. They live near a major city, but he had to take a job almost two hours away. He keeps a separate apartment there and comes home when he can. It's a living.

His take is that the seemingly unbreakable radiology job market of the past 10+ years allowed residency programs to ramp up trainees tremendously. Unfortunately, cuts in reimbursement (with more looming), competition with non-rads groups who buy their own imaging equipment, and increasing productivity per radiologist, are driving their job market back to 1996. For those unfamiliar, 1996 was a year when the radiology job market made the pathology job market look like the dermatology job market.

That was his opinion, anyways.

Hey Unty, you should contact this PA group and see how many CVs they have received.

The radiologists I know (recent training graduates, like myself) had easier times finding jobs than myself, but not as easy as I would've thought. Their salaries are no where near the one that was posted. Granted, I live in a highly desirable part of the country (SoCal) where salaries tend to be deflated.

It'd be interesting to find out if this position in PA is in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh (not that those are desirable areas to me). It seems like there's posting in many of the job boards for positions in relatively isolated areas w/ high pay, great benefits, etc.


----- Antony

 

[Parts Unknown]

The radiologists I know (recent training graduates, like myself) had easier times finding jobs than myself, but not as easy as I would've thought.

Yes, "tanked" is certainly a relative term.

 

[Patholog]

I am in my second fellowship and can't get a job! Help?

Anyone have a job out there for me or know of a group hiring? Anyone know or heard of a group that can't find anyone?

bdunwood,

I sent you a PM yesterday. Check it.

 

[2121115]

FYI, this job has been posted on the CAP website several times over the past 6 months. Apparently they are having a hard time finding someone. If you haven't applied it might be a good idea.

http://www.healthecareers.com/jobs/hospitalbased-path-beautiful-southeast-university-/1048468.htm

 

[dwil75]

FYI, this job has been posted on the CAP website several times over the past 6 months. Apparently they are having a hard time finding someone. If you haven't applied it might be a good idea.

http://www.healthecareers.com/jobs/hospitalbased-path-beautiful-southeast-university-/1048468.htm

I've seen this too, and we called about it...
I'm not certain, but we think it is a recruiter. But certainly worth a call.

 

[2121115]

I've seen this too, and we called about it...
I'm not certain, but we think it is a recruiter. But certainly worth a call.

You called and couldn't actually get in touch with anyone? That is real strange. The job has been posted and reposted several times so I assumed that meant that no one had applied and they were having trouble finding someone. But then you called and they can't even get back with you. That is weird.

 

[dwil75]

You called and couldn't actually get in touch with anyone? That is real strange. The job has been posted and reposted several times so I assumed that meant that no one had applied and they were having trouble finding someone. But then you called and they can't even get back with you. That is weird.

My husband said he called and left an intro type message. They never returned his call... so who knows. Perhaps they are looking for particular subspecialties? But the OP could call. What could it possibly hurt?

 

[LADoc00]

I got back to work recently and attended a high mucky-muck meeting here in California. The news was not good for trainees. Apparently, many large practice owners have simply stopped hiring anyone right out of training/academia (jr. faculty included). There are good reasons for this, primarily centered around youngsters not being to solo SO at all and pretty much having zero biz sense on top of that. There is also the dreaded "entitlement" issue with this younger generation.

Sad to see some 70 year old pathologist who has retired 3 times already doing work that a 32 year old with a new baby could get, but it is happening.

Sorry to report.

 

[yaah]

Really? There's an entitlement issue? Knock me over with a feather!

There are a lot of people who come out of training ready to go - many groups (maybe not in CA, I dunno) will hire people out of training if they are a good fit. But there is definitely more caution. Entitlement really plays a huge role, I am amazed at how many recent trainees don't acknowledge this. I know a lot of people on this forum don't acknowledge it, because they would prefer to think of it as "not being someone else's bitch," as opposed to having a unearned sense of entitlement.

Another issue with hiring people out of training is that they often leave after 2-3 years when they decide they want to live somewhere else.

 

[Substance]

Really? There's an entitlement issue? Knock me over with a feather!

There are a lot of people who come out of training ready to go - many groups (maybe not in CA, I dunno) will hire people out of training if they are a good fit. But there is definitely more caution. Entitlement really plays a huge role, I am amazed at how many recent trainees don't acknowledge this. I know a lot of people on this forum don't acknowledge it, because they would prefer to think of it as "not being someone else's bitch," as opposed to having a unearned sense of entitlement.

Another issue with hiring people out of training is that they often leave after 2-3 years when they decide they want to live somewhere else.

I would think that it has to do with the fact that in most every other specialty, once a resident has completed training they are able to find a place to work that pays the standard amount and offers a good degree of autonomy. Path seems unique in the regard that even after one is done training, there's still a long way to go before one can be considered competent to practice autonomously. This illustrates both the complexity of pathology, and the fact that there are too many inadequate residency programs.

 

[Entgegen]

I would think that it has to do with the fact that in most every other specialty, once a resident has completed training they are able to find a place to work that pays the standard amount and offers a good degree of autonomy. Path seems unique in the regard that even after one is done training, there's still a long way to go before one can be considered competent to practice autonomously. This illustrates both the complexity of pathology, and the fact that there are too many inadequate residency programs.

There's something similar that happens in radiology as well, from what I hear. Even if you're a fellow, there are a lot of times that the attending radiologist will have to read after you to finalize things. Not only that, when a radiologist is fresh out of residency/fellowship, they're incredibly slow compared to the speed they need to be to really hack it in private practice. But most groups are aware of this and give the new hires a little while to adjust.

 

[green mantis]

Another issue with hiring people out of training is that they often leave after 2-3 years when they decide they want to live somewhere else.

It's all a never ending cycle. If the recent graduate were able to get a position where he wanted to live after training, he wouldn't need to go elsewhere. Once he gets some experience, he becomes a much more desirable candidate & is able to go where he initially wanted.

I'm from SoCal. I know if I had to leave the area for a job, I'd definitely be looking for opportunities to come back (not necessarily right away).


----- Antony

 

[2121115]

In what other field of medicine can the average graduate not practice autonomously after completing residency?

Pathology training has to be completely revamped and we need to come at this from a completely different angle.

I don't care what anyone says. It is not harder to become a competent pathologist than it is to become a competent general surgeon or internal medicine physician. This mindset of "Oh, pathology is too complicated for a MD to reach a basic level of competency after 4-5 years of training" is bulls!%t. The problem is that pathology training is 2 years of learning relevant information, 2 years of complete crap and time wasting, and 0 years of learning to function independently as a physician.

 

[earmuff]

In what other field of medicine can the average graduate not practice autonomously after completing residency?

Pathology training has to be completely revamped and we need to come at this from a completely different angle.

I don't care what anyone says. It is not harder to become a competent pathologist than it is to become a competent general surgeon or internal medicine physician. This mindset of "Oh, pathology is too complicated for a MD to reach a basic level of competency after 4-5 years of training" is bulls!%t. The problem is that pathology training is 2 years of learning relevant information, 2 years of complete crap and time wasting, and 0 years of learning to function independently as a physician.

I think it takes time to become comfortable with morphology. 4 years may not be enough to be competent.

 

[pathstudent]

I think the best move is to spend a few years as clinical instructor or assistant prof before venturing into private practice

 

[2121115]

I think it takes time to become comfortable with morphology. 4 years may not be enough to be competent.

Expert? Sure. Competent? No. Competent is a combination of being certain about 90% of common diagnoses and using good judgment when it comes to complicated diagnoses. It doesn't take more than 4 years to get there. It takes hard work and a good training program where you are pushed to excel. Expertise is something different altogether. You'll never be expert in everything (no matter how many fellowships you do) and at some point you just have to start signing out cases.

 

[BrainPathology]

The problem is that pathology training is 2 years of learning relevant information, 2 years of complete crap and time wasting, and 0 years of learning to function independently as a physician.

I agree, that's why I made an effort not to waste my time in the last two years and did my best to learn how to function independently as a physician. If you take the initiative and ask for more responsibility most attendings will give it to you. If not, find other ones. It's not all your program's fault if you waste your time the last two years.

Do you not see the irony of complaining that no one shows you how to act independently?

 

[lipomas]

In what other field of medicine can the average graduate not practice autonomously after completing residency?

Pathology training has to be completely revamped and we need to come at this from a completely different angle.

I don't care what anyone says. It is not harder to become a competent pathologist than it is to become a competent general surgeon or internal medicine physician. This mindset of "Oh, pathology is too complicated for a MD to reach a basic level of competency after 4-5 years of training" is bulls!%t. The problem is that pathology training is 2 years of learning relevant information, 2 years of complete crap and time wasting, and 0 years of learning to function independently as a physician.

It's not entirely different from other specialties. New surgeons and internists have huge learning curves too and hospitals and private groups know this well. New surgeons are forever consulting veterans on courses of treatment, operative technique, all that. Most pathology grads can practice autonomously, and practice very well, immediately upon finishing residency. The problem is that some cannot. Programs are to blame for this but so are the graduates. Everybody is going to have some deficiency. There are a lot of things that go into making a good pathologist, and very few people are going to be good at all of them. The deficiencies tend to get noticed more, particularly in new hires.

But as much as you dismiss it, the body of knowledge that a pathologist has to know to be competent is quite large. If you become a subspecialist then most of what you learn in residency becomes essentially irrelevant, but if you become a generalist then most of what you learn in residency becomes practical, but you just may not have gotten enough exposure to it. Residents do a poor job in general of shoring up their own weaknesses during training. While passing the boards is obviously important, too many residents spend their elective time doing soft tissue electives or dermpath electives (even if they are not doing dermpath) instead of trying to learn about things they will use in their future daily practice. Programs (well, some are better than others) also do a poor job of this - they are good at mentoring the future academics but not the non-academics.


That being said, I totally agree with you that pathology residency programs in general do a terrible job of preparing residents to practice independently - everything in residency is supervised and residents rarely have to make the tough calls that residents in other fields have to make. It's hard to change that practice because there aren't a lot of options, but it can be done.

 

[lipomas]

I agree, that's why I made an effort not to waste my time in the last two years and did my best to learn how to function independently as a physician. If you take the initiative and ask for more responsibility most attendings will give it to you. If not, find other ones. It's not all your program's fault if you waste your time the last two years.

Do you not see the irony of complaining that no one shows you how to act independently?

Good advice.

 

[Pathwrath]

The problem is that pathology training is 2 years of learning relevant information, 2 years of complete crap and time wasting, and 0 years of learning to function independently as a physician.

Actually, in programs emphasizing "grossing skills" it's even less than two years of learning relevant information. Plus you forgot to deduct the time spent on research to land the series of required fellowships.

 

[lipomas]

Actually, in programs emphasizing "grossing skills" it's even less than two years of learning relevant information. Plus you forgot to deduct the time spent on research to land the series of required fellowships.

Yeah that latter point is key. It's almost as though path should have one year given off as a research (like many surgery programs) or independent study year so that people are forced to take their CP rotations seriously and not just use them as research or independent study months.

 

[BrainPathology]

Yeah that latter point is key. It's almost as though path should have one year given off as a research (like many surgery programs) or independent study year so that people are forced to take their CP rotations seriously and not just use them as research or independent study months.

Doesn't that take us back to a 5 year residency? Which is pretty off putting for a specialty that seems to be in trouble.. that's a pretty huge risk/reward. Plus aren't many people effectively doing that anyway by getting a sugical path fellowship, working their tails off in the first 6 months and getting a subspecialty fellowship - often at the same institution for a later year?

We're then talking about another year where residents aren't actually learning about pathology skills to prepare them for the 'impression' that research is not only mandatory for a good fellowship but too dfficult to work into the free time you have during residency.

 

[lipomas]

No, you could replace one of the years and consolidate training in the other three. It would work if people worked hard and the expectation of workload was changed. But unfortunately that is probably unlikely and they would still blow off CP.

 

[BrainPathology]

No, you could replace one of the years and consolidate training in the other three. It would work if people worked hard and the expectation of workload was changed. But unfortunately that is probably unlikely and they would still blow off CP.

Oh ok... yeah I wonder if some programs could try this and still be accredited.

 

[lipomas]

Oh ok... yeah I wonder if some programs could try this and still be accredited.

BWH has their AP-only residents do all their required rotations + a fellowship in three years. Not the same thing, but similar. I also trained with a CP-only person who shifted all her electives to one of the years and did pure research for that year. The focus in the first year got her good recommendations and she got a good fellowship, and the research year then helped with that. She focused on CP the entire year (i.e. didn't blow it off) and was probably the most competent resident at handling almost everything related to CP. Conversely, I know of another resident who switched to CP only and treated every month like a vacation (i.e. worked 10-3 if she came in at all). Now whereas the first one is one of the only CP-only residents I know to land a private job, the latter can't find a job. BOO HOO.

 

[yaah]

It probably wouldn't work to do a straight research year in path. There are people who do this, but it's more for those who are going to focus on bench research in their career. Translational and clinical research takes time but having a year off probably isn't going to help that much - projects can be really scattered in their time commitments and a lot of it depends on other people doing their job (so there is a lot of down time in each project).

I do agree that a lot of residents could use their residency time more efficiently and be better prepared when they finish. But a lot of people use elective time as essentially vacation time, and they only do the minimum on CP rotations or certain AP rotations. I shudder to think that some people actually pick pathology as a specialty because the residency is easier, but it happens.

 

[mcfaddens]

I think it takes time to become comfortable with morphology. 4 years may not be enough to be competent.

Agreed but once in practice you continue to get comfortable with morphology, but 4 years is enough to try to train someone to know their limits and not totally fk up. Remember it only takes 6 years to operate on someones brain without hesitation.

 

[TX515]

How bad is it to do a family med or IM residency instead of 2+ fellowships?

 

[EvilNewbie]

Yes, jobs nowadays are almost nonexistant for a number of reasons... the recession, the health care reform, the medicare fix, the increased number of fellowship trained candidates, the increased number of experienced pathologists who left to look for somewhere else or were let go due to the economy, the stock market crashed causing a lot of pathologists to not retire, the older pathologist who refuse to leave the profession... put it all together and Houston, we have a problem... I know during my interviews, I was competing against people who had decades of experience and people who done more fellowships than me... Most of the time, I lose against such prospects... and have made deals with others.. the problem? Low-balled pay... even if you could get a job, you are likely to be low-balled... it feels like I am doing a surgical pathology fellowship than an actual job... so I will keep looking until I find a place that will offer me a job and that pays decently... I consider myself a very good applicant... I have applied to VA programs as well... zero luck as they are flooded with more experienced candidates... the job market sucks... and anyone that thinks otherwise is dreaming... take it from people who have been looking... its all the same thing... nobody mentioned the job market in these threads in the past... this year is especially horrendous... no jobs and jobs with low pay and nothing in the contracts to make up for it when there is a turnaround in the market... its a sad time for anyone to be looking

 

[BrainPathology]

Yes, jobs nowadays are almost nonexistant for a number of reasons... the recession, the health care reform, the medicare fix, the increased number of fellowship trained candidates, the increased number of experienced pathologists who left to look for somewhere else or were let go due to the economy, the stock market crashed causing a lot of pathologists to not retire, the older pathologist who refuse to leave the profession... put it all together and Houston, we have a problem... I know during my interviews, I was competing against people who had decades of experience and people who done more fellowships than me... Most of the time, I lose against such prospects... and have made deals with others.. the problem? Low-balled pay... even if you could get a job, you are likely to be low-balled... it feels like I am doing a surgical pathology fellowship than an actual job... so I will keep looking until I find a place that will offer me a job and that pays decently... I consider myself a very good applicant... I have applied to VA programs as well... zero luck as they are flooded with more experienced candidates... the job market sucks... and anyone that thinks otherwise is dreaming... take it from people who have been looking... its all the same thing... nobody mentioned the job market in these threads in the past... this year is especially horrendous... no jobs and jobs with low pay and nothing in the contracts to make up for it when there is a turnaround in the market... its a sad time for anyone to be looking

I'm sorry, I know that I'm guilty of absolutely rancid spelling typically, and occasionally make the really really glaring typo... but "who done more fellowships than me"?? did you say this on purpose?

What do you mean you lose against them and make deals with others? If you lose against them, do another fellowship. You feel like you're doing that anyway. You say that in the next line or two, or at least you try (I think.. there is a missing adverb there.. from the context I believe it's "more").

What deals do you make with them? Do you babysit for them in return for a job? Or something else?

What jobs are you getting contracts for that have "low" pay.. what EXACTLY is the low pay? What EXACTLY do you think a minimum amount of money is for you to accept a position? (PLEASE not.. "more than I'm being offered")

And of course, the requisite insult to everyone who doubts that the job market is abysmal. I'll go get my pillow and wait to wake from the dream of having several prospects moving forward right now.

 

[BrainPathology]

How bad is it to do a family med or IM residency instead of 2+ fellowships?

I would say it's not bad at all.. if you don't care about what you're doing. If you like either of those fields do them. As far as I know it's quite difficult to practice pathology with a board in family medicine or internal medicine.

 

[EvilNewbie]

I'm sorry, I know that I'm guilty of absolutely rancid spelling typically, and occasionally make the really really glaring typo... but "who done more fellowships than me"?? did you say this on purpose?

What do you mean you lose against them and make deals with others? If you lose against them, do another fellowship. You feel like you're doing that anyway. You say that in the next line or two, or at least you try (I think.. there is a missing adverb there.. from the context I believe it's "more").

The fact that they did another fellowship didn't hurt me for the position but it hurts the profession in the sense that requiring "more" and getting "less" is not a situation I think anyone wants to be in but that's the way it is currently now...

What deals do you make with them? Do you babysit for them in return for a job? Or something else?

Do you want my social security number and date of birth with that? Sorry, I am not going to tell you about it...

What jobs are you getting contracts for that have "low" pay.. what EXACTLY is the low pay? What EXACTLY do you think a minimum amount of money is for you to accept a position? (PLEASE not.. "more than I'm being offered")

Like I said before, I prefer to be anonymous... everybody knows what the typical pay is.. anything below that is being low-balled... that is unless you think earning less than average is "normal"...

And of course, the requisite insult to everyone who doubts that the job market is abysmal. I'll go get my pillow and wait to wake from the dream of having several prospects moving forward right now.

Everyone that is job hunting, myself included KNOWS the situation and all share the same experiences... what is your experience? Are you looking for job or you just making up fantasy into reality?

 

[lipomas]

Yes, jobs nowadays are almost nonexistant for a number of reasons... the recession, the health care reform, the medicare fix, the increased number of fellowship trained candidates, the increased number of experienced pathologists who left to look for somewhere else or were let go due to the economy, the stock market crashed causing a lot of pathologists to not retire, the older pathologist who refuse to leave the profession... put it all together and Houston, we have a problem... I know during my interviews, I was competing against people who had decades of experience and people who done more fellowships than me... Most of the time, I lose against such prospects... and have made deals with others.. the problem? Low-balled pay... even if you could get a job, you are likely to be low-balled... it feels like I am doing a surgical pathology fellowship than an actual job... so I will keep looking until I find a place that will offer me a job and that pays decently... I consider myself a very good applicant... I have applied to VA programs as well... zero luck as they are flooded with more experienced candidates... the job market sucks... and anyone that thinks otherwise is dreaming... take it from people who have been looking... its all the same thing... nobody mentioned the job market in these threads in the past... this year is especially horrendous... no jobs and jobs with low pay and nothing in the contracts to make up for it when there is a turnaround in the market... its a sad time for anyone to be looking

http://www.kentlaw.edu/academics/lrw/grinker/LwtaEllipses.htm

I hope your CV doesn't include ellipses.

Jobs are not non-existent. There are fewer than the number of graduates (presumably) but they are not non-existent. People are having to work harder to find them in many situations (although that is not true in other situations as some are not having the same amount of trouble). The job market seems to be (although to be honest this opinion is based predominantly on posts on here, not with my real life experience) inappropriately poor this year. As with always, the job market varies depending on your own individual situation. And before you *****s show up and start calling me a denialist, read the last paragraph again.

 

[EvilNewbie]

http://www.kentlaw.edu/academics/lrw/grinker/LwtaEllipses.htm

I hope your CV doesn't include ellipses.

Not to worry, my CV is perfect... but in a bad situation, even a spotless CV will not help you...

 

[BrainPathology]

The fact that they did another fellowship didn't hurt me for the position but it hurts the profession in the sense that requiring "more" and getting "less" is not a situation I think anyone wants to be in but that's the way it is currently now...



Do you want my social security number and date of birth with that? Sorry, I am not going to tell you about it...



Like I said before, I prefer to be anonymous... everybody knows what the typical pay is.. anything below that is being low-balled... that is unless you think earning less than average is "normal"...



Everyone that is job hunting, myself included KNOWS the situation and all share the same experiences... what is your experience? Are you looking for job or you just making up fantasy into reality?

Nonsense. Essentially all of your response is utter, complete nonsense. Telling me what deals you've had to make doesn't reveal who you are. Nor does giving a number that you CLAIM everyone knows. If everyone knows it what is it?

You're just like everyone else who comes on here saying everything sucks and everyone who questions that is dreaming, or a big fat stupidhead or some sort of hallocaust denialist. In other words - useless. You offer nothing, to anyone, except whining.

To answer your last question yes I'm exploring jobs.. I'm a little early about it though since I won't finish fellowship til 2011 but YES I do have prospects and they are good. But I'm competing against people like you and similar posters on here who only reveal things about themselves and not the job market, so really it's not that hard to get good prospects.

 

[lipomas]

Everyone that is job hunting, myself included KNOWS the situation and all share the same experiences... what is your experience? Are you looking for job or you just making up fantasy into reality?

Unfortunately this just isn't accurate at all. That doesn't trivialize or deny your experience, it's just to state that yours isn't the only perspective. I realize that to you, your experience is really the only one that matters (which is appropriate). I talked to two current fellows recently and both locked up what sound like good jobs in private practice, plus two others who took academic jobs. I have not personally talked to anyone who is still looking but I know of one candidate who is (but it is someone I would never ever hire to work with me), as well as one other who I think is still looking and is a good candidate.

Also unfortunately for you, blaming entities like "the job market" and "more experienced pathologists" does you no good. When you cannot find a job you can either complain and stand pat or you can find out why you are not being hired and do something about it. This is hard for physicians because they are not accustomed to having to fight for things or work harder to improve their candidacy. You have to improve your candidacy by whatever means necessary. If that means your candidacy is deficient in communication skills (which your grammar here suggests but does not prove) then you need to work on that. If your candidacy is deficient by pedigree and training, then you may have to build it up either by taking a job that is "beneath you" or doing another fellowship. Realize that far more physicians these days than you would think (not just pathologists) change jobs within a few years after starting their first one.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Oops, misread something.

 

[wild0ne]

Yes, jobs nowadays are almost nonexistant for a number of reasons...

You forgot a couple important, but often over-looked ones (especially by those that cannot find any jobs): incompetence, poor communication skills, ranking low on the 'would want to work with' factor, inflated ego, rigid expectations, sense of entitlement, etc. In short, personal factors.

Your list of excuses...um, I mean reasons..was otherwise, commendably comprehensive.

 

[path24]

I wonder if the economy is really in bad shape? I mean some people have jobs and don't seem to have a problem finding jobs......hmmm....personal experiences do vary.

 

[BrainPathology]

I wonder if the economy is really in bad shape? I mean some people have jobs and don't seem to have a problem finding jobs......hmmm....personal experiences do vary.

I do too.. from the service I get at restaurants, retail shops and utilities, and adinistrative staff in just about every hospital/university I've trained at, I'd say the unemployment rate is a little low. I don't get the impression that jobs are so precious that people work their butts off to keep them by, you know, actually doing a good job.

 

[TX515]

I would say it's not bad at all.. if you don't care about what you're doing. If you like either of those fields do them. As far as I know it's quite difficult to practice pathology with a board in family medicine or internal medicine.

Quite the contrary, care very much about what I do. Would rather have a job I don't enjoy than not have one at all.

 

[BrainPathology]

Quite the contrary, care very much about what I do. Would rather have a job I don't enjoy than not have one at all.

ok.

Would you have a job you loved that "low balled" your pay? (keeping in mind that no one is willing to actually define what that is)

Would you have a job you could probably say didn't kill your soul for a little more than being "low balled"?

Would you have a job you hate if it assured you of getting a job right at the average for that job out of training just so you dind't have to worry about getting a job?

Would you have a job that made you rich that also made you suicidal every day?

Just saying you care about what you do but don't want to be unemployed simplifies things a little too much I think. But, I'm not trying to belittle your concern because if I had read these forums when I was choosing a career I'd have stayed in architecture school. Not only for the dire warnings but for the fear that I'd have to work in an entire specialty filled with some of the people who post here. No one here, with one single exception, gives any sort of straight answer to their situation.

Luckily though my live experience with pathology is meeting personalities -and relative luck in the job market - way way more like yaah and lipomas and similar. I would bet, and certainly hope, that if you choose pathology your experience will be close to that as well.

 

[lipomas]

There are very few perfect jobs. Be very careful about idealizing other specialties while talking about the risks/drawbacks of pathology. Most jobs are some level of compromise between desirable traits - location, pay, lifestyle, type of practice, research opportunities, teaching, things like that. It is next to impossible to find a job that fills your needs in all areas. Jobs in other fields are the same way - just talk to real practicing physicians in other specialties and you will figure this out. Don't just listen to disgruntled people on the internet speaking second hand about other specialties.

 

[TX515]

Thanks for taking the time. Low balling is relative. Match is next week, I'll find out very soon if I am a pathologist to be.

 

[path24]

I am still wondering where the jobs that nobody wants are. The only jobs advertised for any real length of time are from recruiters, or academics that want subspec with research. The job thread post up top is hilarious also...lots of opportunities, ya right.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Have you guys seen this presentation from CAP?

http://www.cap.org/apps/docs/pathology_residents/pdf/job_market.ppt

What do you guys think? Seems like they are very optimistic of a currently so-so situation.

 

[2121115]

Have you guys seen this presentation from CAP?

http://www.cap.org/apps/docs/pathology_residents/pdf/job_market.ppt

What do you guys think? Seems like they are very optimistic of a currently so-so situation.

Well, that certainly isn't a dismal report. Maybe the mass retirement that is always being foretold will actually happen one of these days.

I suppose it doesn't really address this specific job cycle though (survey data from people in practice 1-5 years who searched for jobs 1-5 years ago), with most complaints being that practices aren't hiring because of health care reform uncertainties or the economic downturn. It is probably the best data you are going to get though.

 

[pathstudent]

A mass retirement would be a bad thing as that would only happen if reimbursement completely tanked