I didn't even interview.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Wiseman07

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
I recently both graduated and applied to a number of child clinical PhD programs. I was given no hint that the process would be nearly this brutal: I was told yes, it's extremely competitive, but that I would surely at least make it to the interview stage. I talked over research interests with professors and chose schools and POIs to match them---this was the main emphasis when choosing which graduate schools to apply for---and still, nothing.

I know many people apply for years before being accepted, but it's hard to see any kind of hope or light when I failed so miserably this time around.

I don't know what to do to improve my application, or where or how to get involved in any kind of research or clinical work as a postgraduate student. I want to talk to the professors who gave me advice previously but I'm hesitant simply because nothing worked out this time around. I had a 4.0 GPA, two years of research experience (although this was likely my biggest weakness) and a decent GRE score. All I can think of really is to try and retake the GRE and try, somehow, to get more experience, but I am at a loss as to how.

Forgive me for sounding extremely depressed! Generally, I am a very upbeat person, but I've been feeling horrible as of late while perusing all the acceptances and wait-list posts. I figured I might as well join in and make an account, although I doubt anyone here really wants to listen to someone whine and mope about. 😛

But... considering many of you just went through the same process, applying to the same schools and with much more success than I, it seems like the optimal place to ask for help. Thank you for your time, guys.
 
Would you be willing to post some stats about yourself (you included a few in the previous post). Stats about your background/application along with how many schools you applied?

Don't fret! Everything will work out in one way or another 🙂
 
I recently both graduated and applied to a number of child clinical PhD programs. I was given no hint that the process would be nearly this brutal: I was told yes, it's extremely competitive, but that I would surely at least make it to the interview stage. I talked over research interests with professors and chose schools and POIs to match them---this was the main emphasis when choosing which graduate schools to apply for---and still, nothing.

I know many people apply for years before being accepted, but it's hard to see any kind of hope or light when I failed so miserably this time around.

I don't know what to do to improve my application, or where or how to get involved in any kind of research or clinical work as a postgraduate student. I want to talk to the professors who gave me advice previously but I'm hesitant simply because nothing worked out this time around. I had a 4.0 GPA, two years of research experience (although this was likely my biggest weakness) and a decent GRE score. All I can think of really is to try and retake the GRE and try, somehow, to get more experience, but I am at a loss as to how.

Forgive me for sounding extremely depressed! Generally, I am a very upbeat person, but I've been feeling horrible as of late while perusing all the acceptances and wait-list posts. I figured I might as well join in and make an account, although I doubt anyone here really wants to listen to someone whine and mope about. 😛

But... considering many of you just went through the same process, applying to the same schools and with much more success than I, it seems like the optimal place to ask for help. Thank you for your time, guys.

Two years of research experience, at least in my experience, should be enough to at least get you an interview (if it's in a relevant area, of course). And with a 4.0 GPA, the immediate questions/areas that spring to mind are: 1) define "decent" for the GRE score, 2) how many programs did you apply to, and 3) did those programs reflect a range of competitiveness?

Beyond that, the only other areas are statement of purpose (which doesn't get as much credit as it should, much of the time) and letters of recommendation.
 
with a 4.0 GPA, the immediate questions/areas that spring to mind are: 1) define "decent" for the GRE score,
Beyond that, the only other areas are statement of purpose (which doesn't get as much credit as it should, much of the time) and letters of recommendation.

My GRE score was V: 600, Q: 700 and A:4.5. I went over my statement of purpose with several professors and at my campus's writing center.

2) how many programs did you apply to, and 3) did those programs reflect a range of competitiveness?

There's where my weakness was, I think. I applied to 9. Most of the programs did not reflect a range of competitiveness because I was encouraged to apply to what one of my professors considered to be "top tier" schools. I originally brought in a larger list with a better range and killed off a large batch of my original choices. Maybe I should take this as a learning experience, then.

The main lab I was apart of was a Family/Child lab. However, I feel I did a lot of grunt work and not much self-directed research or contributions that may count for something in graduate programs. I was also participating in research under the school of social work, relating to domestic violence (I was doing a dual-major / obtained a bachelor of science in Criminal Justice).
 
My GRE score was V: 600, Q: 700 and A:4.5. I went over my statement of purpose with several professors and at my campus's writing center.



There's where my weakness was, I think. I applied to 9. Most of the programs did not reflect a range of competitiveness because I was encouraged to apply to what one of my professors considered to be "top tier" schools. I originally brought in a larger list with a better range and killed off a large batch of my original choices. Maybe I should take this as a learning experience, then.

The main lab I was apart of was a Family/Child lab. However, I feel I did a lot of grunt work and not much self-directed research or contributions that may count for something in graduate programs. I was also participating in research under the school of social work, relating to domestic violence (I was doing a dual-major / obtained a bachelor of science in Criminal Justice).


Your stats seem fairly competitive (better than mine this application cycle, admittedly). It almost sounds like you may have only applied to schools that were just a bit out of reach and not enough "fall back" schools.
 
Two years of research experience, at least in my experience, should be enough to at least get you an interview (if it's in a relevant area, of course). And with a 4.0 GPA, the immediate questions/areas that spring to mind are: 1) define "decent" for the GRE score, 2) how many programs did you apply to, and 3) did those programs reflect a range of competitiveness?

Beyond that, the only other areas are statement of purpose (which doesn't get as much credit as it should, much of the time) and letters of recommendation.

^^ Same thoughts here. Two years of research experience should be enough to garner you an interview or two. Hell, I had none my first application cycle and received two interviews. I know many others who receive interviews with approximately the same amount or even less (~1-1.5 years). So I doubt it's the "lack of research" necessarily that's holding you back. As Acronym mentioned, it *could* be an issue if it's not in an area relevant to what you're applying.

Next thought was define "decent" for GRE scores. Some people consider lower scores to be A-OK until they look at what programs require or what programs typically receive from applicant submissions.

Then, again, how many is a "number" of programs? I've seen students who thought they applied to "enough." They applied to three or four, but it was more than one or two, so "enough." If all of those programs are super-competitive to boot, then you may have narrowed your possibilities even further.

And, to continue parroting Acronym, those letters and statement of purpose are important. That SoP can make you stand out from other applicants who may have more experience (or even comparable experience), so you're preferred to some extent over them. This does not only apply to the content but to your writing as well! Some folks don't pay attention to this, and it could hurt them. I landed interviews at programs I didn't think I had a chance in hell at because of my writing/statement of purpose (they told me this). I know at least one prof who will not consider applicants unless they have top scores on the analytical writing of the GRE. This goes in direct opposition to some folks (who informed me at the time I was taking the GRE) who claim that the AW segment means jack. Umm, for some people, it may not mean much. For others, they may use that as another piece to rule folks out. How were your statements? Your writing?

Finally, do you know whether these profs were accepting students? I recall applying to a few programs and finding out at the last minute that the profs were not going to accept any students for the incoming year. Although this happens, there are times that professors know this up front--you can save yourself some time & energy (and money!) by not applying to programs that you don't have a chance because they're simply not accepting a student this cycle (unless someone else decides to grab you up, which happens as well).

Feel free to moan & groan away! I think most of us do it at one time or another. :meanie:
 
Would you be willing to post some stats about yourself (you included a few in the previous post). Stats about your background/application along with how many schools you applied?

Don't fret! Everything will work out in one way or another 🙂

Thanks. Is there anything else I forgot to mention?
I'm 22, graduated with a BS in Psychology and a BS in Criminal Justice. I worked in 3 labs, although one did not give me a whole lot of experience or tasks, which was unfortunate. I tried to find experience with the resources available to me but I did not get to do any major research on my own.
 
Your stats seem fairly competitive (better than mine this application cycle, admittedly). It almost sounds like you may have only applied to schools that were just a bit out of reach and not enough "fall back" schools.

I'd agree.

I posted prior to seeing your next response, but your stats do indeed look "decent" and better than several I know.

I would question why someone would encourage you to apply to "only" top-tier programs. I think that this is a death-knell in and of itself. I did this my first time around (and I only applied to 3-4). 🙄 At the time, I rationalized my behavior by "not realizing" that they were all considered top-ranked and highly competitive programs. Although I was interviewed, I was waitlisted and ended up with a second round.

Broaden your range of schools, and I *think* this should help you out. 👍

G'luck! :luck:
 
I'd say with your current stats if you took this next year and really beefed up your application you'd be a premier candidate next interview season!
 
Yeah, you could maybe get the GREs a little higher if you want something to work on. Also stay involved with research this year. Volunteer, present some posters.

You had 2 years of research, but did you have posters or co-author any papers? This is increasingly becoming the norm.

Join an appropriate professional organization, maybe seek some people out at a conference to talk with them about their research, talk to current graduate students, etc.

Apply broadly, but only apply to places you actually think you might want to go.
 
I'd say with your current stats if you took this next year and really beefed up your application you'd be a premier candidate next interview season!

Yes, this!

Also, I think it's fine to mope about. See nothing wrong with it at all in fact. 😛 When you really want something for yourself and set these great goals, then there is likely to be a piece of you that is upset/sad/mad when things don't work out. But I would encourage you to think about them not working out YET! You have a lot going for you and inevitably have learned a lot from this application cycle that will be a benefit to you next year.

I would also encourage you to see that you are also in a great position. You have time to get feedback from your professors and consider what they have to say as you approach next year's applications. Don't feel bad about contacting them again even though it didn't work out this year, just emphasize that you are ready to try again and want to try to grow as much as possible as you move towards the next application cycle. I would encourage you to try to meet with them in person if possible as opposed to them emailing you some ideas.

Take care!! And best of luck!!
 
I've been where you are now, Wiseman, as have many many posters on this board. It sucks...really, really, sucks. It's even worse when there is no glaring weakness in your application that you can make sure to fix for next time. This was the case the first time I applied as well. I encourage you to apply again (either this next round or the one after). It's hard to think about doing that right now, but perhaps you can take these next few months to do something else you enjoy so you feel ready to come back to psych and the application cycle in the fall. Here are a few recommendations for if/when you do reapply.

1. Make sure you include some less competitive schools in your applications. Lots of things can make schools less competitive that don't reflect on the quality of the program--geography, not a "brand name" undergrad institution, etc.

2. Write a new personal statement. I had lots of people look over my personal statement my first time around, and everyone said it was good. However, after going back after my rejections, I realized that I was probably being a little too controversial in it. I came out strongly in support of one side of a controversial issue in the field. Although I still stick to this viewpoint, I think that it probably came off as cocky. Things like this can easily escape your notice and the notice of reviewers. Maybe your statement was too dry, maybe it was too personal. It could be any number of issues that will be an easy fix if you write a new one with slightly different eyes.

3. If possible, use some of the data you collected in your research experience and try to get a poster at a national conference. Not only is this an extra line on your CV, but it can give you the chance to network with potential POIs. As much as we all hate it, who you know can and often does get you into grad school. Even if you don't present a poster, attending these conferences can be very good.

Hope that helps. I made it in my second time applying, and, as I said, many others on this forum had to try at least twice as well. Good luck.
 
Hello Wiseman,

I am sorry hear about your experiences. While I am going on internship now, I was once in your shoes and can remember how demoralizing I felt afterwards. It is rough, but like you said, many people have this experience. I wouldn't let it dissuade from reapplying in the future.

Like yourself, I applied straight out of undergrad my first time around. I received only one interview after applying to 12 schools that were highly competitive. The sole interview went horrible, and needless to say, I went without an acceptance.

Afterward, my mentor and I did a postmortem on my application in an effort to identify what went wrong. The goal was to help me improve as an applicant and get accepted in the future. We identified several weaknesses, which looking back, I wish I would have thought about more clearly. I will share what I think got in my way. Perhaps, this will be helpful in reviewing your own application. To note, some of the concerns were mentioned by the previous posters, so I apologize for the repetition:

1. Competitiveness of the programs: Take a look at the acceptance rates for each program to which you applied. Is there a distribution of programs with respect to the number of applicants per year, acceptances, etc.? Also, are you limiting yourself in terms of geography? I limited myself in terms of geography and the degree of competition was not balanced. This was the first main flaw my mentor and I identified when reviewing my strategy.

2. GRE Scores: In my case, I think this may have been the second biggest hurdle, as I am terrible at standardized tests. I suggest that you compare your scores to the averages reported by the programs to which you applied. Do your scores meet or exceed the mean that is listed for the Verbal and Quantitative sub-tests, both individually and combined? Are you weaker in one area over the other? While my combined score was relatively similar the average of combined scores at the programs I applied to then, my quantitative score far outweighed my verbal score. The discrepancy was high enough to raise a few eyebrows and probably led to some concerns.

2. Research Experience: While two years is a solid number for any applicant, it is not only the quantity of time that is important. Did you present any posters or papers at conferences? If so, how many? Have you authored or coauthored a paper? If so, how many? What were your responsibilities in the lab you worked in? What type of lab was it? Does the experience you gained and/or the nature of the research match with the research interests of the POIs you contacted?

In my case, I did cognitive neuroscience research. While I had several posters, one presentation, and coauthored two publications (i.e., my biggest strengths), these experiences had no relationship to treatment outcome research for affective disorders, my true passion within the field. The lack of perceived goodness-of-fit was a major weakness of my application.

3. Letters of Recommendation: Who wrote these letters for you? How well do they know you and the quality of your work? Were some just professors you had for a class, versus people who mentored you in some way as a student and/or employee? In the case of the latter, was the job related to psychology?

You want to have glowing letters of recommendation from people who know you very well, for an extended period of time, and that can speak to your qualities as a future psychologist and readiness for doctoral level work. In my case, two were very strong letters from professors who knew me extremely well (~3 years), while one was from a professor who I took one course with - big mistake. I went this route because that one professor had published in areas relevant to my future interests. Yet, he truly could not speak to my character or my research abilities - there was not enough of a relationship. The letter was fine, just not stellar. I think this set me back a bit. I don't think it was the biggest hurdle, but it was an area of potential weakness that I did not consider until well after the fact.

4. Quality of Undergraduate Institution: I am not sure where you graduated from, but in my case I think counted as a strike against my application to some extent. I went to a very small, relatively unknown, state college. Even though I had a 4.0 GPA (i.e., a major strength of my application), the lack of reputation for my alma mater in conjunction with the lower Verbal GRE sub-test score probably made much less competitive. This is especially true when there are sure to be applicants with similar scores from more well known institutions.

5. Clinical Experience: Have you had any experience working in direct contact with clinical populations? If so, is it related in some way to your future interests? While I had some clinical experiences (i.e., a moderate strength of my application at the time), these experiences were much like my research background - completely unrelated to my future interests.

In an effort to address these concerns, I decided to work in a clinical setting for year while continuing to volunteer in my former lab. I used this time to weigh out my options and come up with a plan.

In the end, I decided that the best course of action FOR ME was to get a Master's Degree. I thought this would allow me to gain research experience more relevant to my clinical interests, display my aptitude for graduate level work, garner a degree from a more well known institution, and afford me the opportunity work part-time in a clinical setting with a population that was more relevant to my goals. It was very difficult and time consuming, but it worked out. I should mention that friends of mine, who had similar experiences with their first round of applications, found paid RA jobs in clinical research settings after they graduated. They ended up being accepted as well and their route was much shorter and economically sensible than my own. I know more people that went this route and found success. I would consider both as options, in addition to whatever ideas you develop on your own.

I hope this information is helpful to you. Best of luck in your endeavors.
 
While your stats likely would have garnered you some interviews at mid-tier schools, they're not good enough for the hardcore clinical science top-tier programs. Most people applying to those types of programs have post-grad full time research experience in addition to products (independent projects, pubs, at the minimum first authored posters). I think applying to only competitive schools is what worked against you this cycle. If those are the schools you ultimately want to shoot for, you'll need more quality research experience and products on your CV.

Basically this. If you applied to only clinical science programs in general (top tier or not), having limited/no pubs and/or presentations is going to significantly reduce your chances.

With the stats you've mentioned, there's nothing that strikes me as an obvious and glaring area of weakness. My best advice would be to just continue strengthening your app for the next 6 months by getting some more research experience if you can, and apply again next cycle. This time, I'd suggest aiming for 12-15 schools, and be sure to include a mix of reach and "safety" (relatively, of course) programs that suit your interests.

You should also consider shelving the SOP for a couple months, then pulling it back out and looking it over with fresh eyes. Personally, I find that with that type of writing, I can almost always see a few significant things I'd like to change.

As for the GREs, 1300 should be fine for most programs. Feel free to take it again if you're bored, but if it were me, I'd probably spend the time on activities with a higher potential for return. In other words, with a 4.0 GPA, a 1400 GRE likely isn't going to do much more for you than a 1300.
 
All good advice here. For the sake of leaving no stone unturned....is it possible that either your SOP or LOR's had a "red flag" in them? A hint at a character flaw or something?

Of course there are the obvious red flags, but I suspect you have read this forum enough to avoid those, e.g., mentioning your own mental health issues, mentioning you want to be a therapist and not a researcher, etc.

As for my own experience, I had a similar-ish experience with internship apps. I applied to 20 with strong qualifications, but only got 2 interviews. (thank God I did end up matching!). Anyway, my director of clinical training was also alarmed by my lack of interviews, so he contacted each of the sites to ask why I was passed over. It turned out about 75% of the issue was perceived fit (I had desperately wanted to work in a counseling center, but had only community mental health experience). But also, I learned that the tone of my SOP was considered by more than one site to be too casual. Also, one program thought how I answered a question was culturally insensitive! Yikes! It didn't occur to me (or any of my profs) that my answer could be taken that way. But it was super-important for me to know that.

I don't know if a similar thing could work for you (having a trusted prof contact a place where you were rejected), but definitely process this with one of your profs.

Best,
Dr. E
 
I recently both graduated and applied to a number of child clinical PhD programs. I was given no hint that the process would be nearly this brutal: I was told yes, it's extremely competitive, but that I would surely at least make it to the interview stage. I talked over research interests with professors and chose schools and POIs to match them---this was the main emphasis when choosing which graduate schools to apply for---and still, nothing.

I know many people apply for years before being accepted, but it's hard to see any kind of hope or light when I failed so miserably this time around.

I don't know what to do to improve my application, or where or how to get involved in any kind of research or clinical work as a postgraduate student. I want to talk to the professors who gave me advice previously but I'm hesitant simply because nothing worked out this time around. I had a 4.0 GPA, two years of research experience (although this was likely my biggest weakness) and a decent GRE score. All I can think of really is to try and retake the GRE and try, somehow, to get more experience, but I am at a loss as to how.

Forgive me for sounding extremely depressed! Generally, I am a very upbeat person, but I've been feeling horrible as of late while perusing all the acceptances and wait-list posts. I figured I might as well join in and make an account, although I doubt anyone here really wants to listen to someone whine and mope about. 😛

But... considering many of you just went through the same process, applying to the same schools and with much more success than I, it seems like the optimal place to ask for help. Thank you for your time, guys.

I also got rejected from all the PhD programs I applied to my senior year of college. I had to wait a few years and try again. It really is such a completely demoralizing experience! Everyone here has given some great advice. I would advise looking into research assistant positions right now, as they will begin opening up. 2 years of experience as a full-time research assistant will be valuable experience if you want to apply again in the future, and from what you said, I think you have the stats to pull it off. Good luck!
 
Thank you for all of the wonderful feedback.

I'll be on the lookout trying to find work as a paid research assistant if I can. What sort of jobs are available at the BA level that allow you to gain experience with clinical populations, if anyone knows? The few jobs I've seen available all want previous experience and seem difficult to break into. I'll be attending a job fair in a few weeks and I've sent in resumes, so hopefully something will come up that way. Although I am interested in research, I am equally interested in clinical experience and programs that are geared
towards a scientist-practitioner model.

Supposedly Clinical Psychology programs are ranked 1-7, where 1 is more practice-based and 7 is research-oriented, right? If I was primarily interested in schools around 4-5 area, would it be more important to gain more clinical experience, research experience, or both? I'm wondering if maybe I need to be exposed to both aspects of the field before I can come across to a committee as being dedicated and sure of my goals for the future.

I think the comments relating to my LORs possibly being weak were also likely true. A lot of my research experience was spent solely reporting to graduate students who were not the ones responsible for writing my LORs. Regarding my SOP: When crafting it, I did attempt to focus on research interests and only used personal history (not related to myself or any mental condition) that was directly related. I was told that it worked well, but I will definitely go back after awhile and look at my statement from a different perspective.

Oh, an additional question! Is it possible to go back after the fact and contact professors that I failed to develop a better relationship with while enrolled in college? I'm a little hesitant and unsure about how to craft an e-mail asking for this sort of advice.

Man, it seems like I was entirely unprepared to apply. I almost wished I hadn't right off the bat.
 
What sort of jobs are available at the BA level that allow you to gain experience with clinical populations, if anyone knows?

Supposedly Clinical Psychology programs are ranked 1-7, where 1 is more practice-based and 7 is research-oriented, right? If I was primarily interested in schools around 4-5 area, would it be more important to gain more clinical experience, research experience, or both?


Oh, an additional question! Is it possible to go back after the fact and contact professors that I failed to develop a better relationship with while enrolled in college? I'm a little hesitant and unsure about how to craft an e-mail asking for this sort of advice.

1) You can always get volunteer experience first and/or concurrent to research experience. Common places to do this would be suicide/crisis hotlines, nursing homes, hospice care, etc. It's probably easier to get paid research work and volunteer clinical experiences. Paid clinical experience at the BA level is very rare.

2) I think having clinical experience in combination with research experience will show that you know what kind of career you're trying to get into which is pretty important. Think about it this way: you could hate it. If you do some clinical volunteering you might realize that a PhD in non-clinical (e.g. social, cognitive, developmental, industrial/organizational) psychology might be more conducive to a happy career down the road.

3) As far as contacting past professors, if you have the time and ability, why not email them to tell them you're interested in gaining more experience in preparation for applying to grad schools next year, and ask about the possibility of ______ (e.g. helping tutor students currently in their classes, helping out with their research, etc). Even if they don't have these opportunities for you, it might be a good way to start a conversation that leads to you asking for their advice.

Good on you for proactively assessing your situation after this setback. I just got in and will be heading to school in the fall, but I had to finish my undergrad as a working adult, so I have a different background entirely. To be honest with you, reading some of the anxiety on this board... I'm glad to be older than many applicants, life experience is worth a lot. I also don't know if I would have really wanted to spend my 20's in grad school. 🙂
 
Supposedly Clinical Psychology programs are ranked 1-7, where 1 is more practice-based and 7 is research-oriented, right? If I was primarily interested in schools around 4-5 area, would it be more important to gain more clinical experience, research experience, or both? I'm wondering if maybe I need to be exposed to both aspects of the field before I can come across to a committee as being dedicated and sure of my goals for the future.


I go to a school in that 4-5 range, and I would say research experience would be more helpful than clinical experience at any PhD program. Alot of research jobs can have clinical aspects to them as well, such as completing SCIDS or symptom interviews with participants and sometimes administering tests like the Weschler Scales. Not to say that people with purely clinical jobs between undergrad and grad school don't get in, it just seems that in my program at least, more people came in with research assistant jobs.

I would look at hospitals and universities in the area you want to live. If you see a lab that looks interesting, email the PI to see if they are looking for any full-time research assistants. That's what I did to find the job that I had before grad school.

Getting a research assistant job might also help with your LOR's as you can have new people to ask, who will most likely know you much better.
 
3) As far as contacting past professors, if you have the time and ability, why not email them to tell them you're interested in gaining more experience in preparation for applying to grad schools next year, and ask about the possibility of ______ (e.g. helping tutor students currently in their classes, helping out with their research, etc). Even if they don't have these opportunities for you, it might be a good way to start a conversation that leads to you asking for their advice.

This. Or, even if they don't have the opportunities, they may be able to connect you with others they know who do have something available. I contacted two of my profs after I did not match the first time: one in the psych dept and one in the criminal justice dept (who actually worked in the psych field). Neither had a problem with sitting down and talking with me, and I maintained those connections over the next few years as I was preparing for another application cycle.


I go to a school in that 4-5 range, and I would say research experience would be more helpful than clinical experience at any PhD program. Alot of research jobs can have clinical aspects to them as well, such as completing SCIDS or symptom interviews with participants and sometimes administering tests like the Weschler Scales. Not to say that people with purely clinical jobs between undergrad and grad school don't get in, it just seems that in my program at least, more people came in with research assistant jobs.

I would look at hospitals and universities in the area you want to live. If you see a lab that looks interesting, email the PI to see if they are looking for any full-time research assistants. That's what I did to find the job that I had before grad school.

Getting a research assistant job might also help with your LOR's as you can have new people to ask, who will most likely know you much better.

+1. My school is listed as a 5, and most of our faculty are going to consider research experience over clinical. The clinical experiences most folks receive are just as described above in that they received research opportunities that had some (varying degrees) level of clinical work incorporated into them. Although you can certainly try to "volunteer" at random "clinical-ish" sites, I would be careful about some of these. Yeah, you may figure out you hate it, but it may just be a poor site or a poor fit for you. Make sure it's something that actually interests you and that's relevant to what you want to do rather than random work that everyone does "because, well, it's clinically relevant, right?"

As mentioned, check hospitals, residential facilities, psychiatric programs... anywhere that you can think that YOU may be interested in working and that YOU can tie in with your interests. Then contact them to see if they have any opportunities available. It's how I managed to land some of my spots--one was restricted to only semi-clinical work, whereas the other was actual research within a medical school/hospital but there were clinical aspects to it of which I have been able to take advantage.
 
Although you can certainly try to "volunteer" at random "clinical-ish" sites, I would be careful about some of these. Yeah, you may figure out you hate it, but it may just be a poor site or a poor fit for you. Make sure it's something that actually interests you and that's relevant to what you want to do rather than random work that everyone does "because, well, it's clinically relevant, right?"

As mentioned, check hospitals, residential facilities, psychiatric programs... anywhere that you can think that YOU may be interested in working and that YOU can tie in with your interests.

Excellent points!
 
Supposedly Clinical Psychology programs are ranked 1-7, where 1 is more practice-based and 7 is research-oriented, right? If I was primarily interested in schools around 4-5 area, would it be more important to gain more clinical experience, research experience, or both? I'm wondering if maybe I need to be exposed to both aspects of the field before I can come across to a committee as being dedicated and sure of my goals for the future.
.

I have never heard of this before! Is this a formal thing? Where does one find this info?

Not that it matters for me any more....just curious how my program tries to portray itself.

Dr. E
 
I have never heard of this before! Is this a formal thing? Where does one find this info?

Not that it matters for me any more....just curious how my program tries to portray itself.

Dr. E


The 1-7 scale is used by the Insider's Guide. It's not hard and fast, of course, but it can give you an idea of how a program perceives itself at least.
 
I think that for most Ph.D. programs, no matter how clinical they may claim to be or how clinical any book says they are, research experience will always trump clinical. I'm sure it would count more in your favor for some more than others, but in my opinion, you should definitely focus on getting my research experience.
 
I think that for most Ph.D. programs, no matter how clinical they may claim to be or how clinical any book says they are, research experience will always trump clinical. I'm sure it would count more in your favor for some more than others, but in my opinion, you should definitely focus on getting my research experience.

I would agree. My program's professors vary from probably about a 3 to a 6.5 on that 1-7 scale, and every single one of them values prior research experience a great deal.
 
I think that for most Ph.D. programs, no matter how clinical they may claim to be or how clinical any book says they are, research experience will always trump clinical. I'm sure it would count more in your favor for some more than others, but in my opinion, you should definitely focus on getting my research experience.

This has been my experience as well. One professor told me that she wanted a graduate student who could come in and contribute to research right away, and that she wasn't particularly concerned about clinical skills because individuals who come in with clinical experience often don't have significantly better clinical skills.

As other's have said, your GRE scores are good and for most programs they would be great. If you only applied to top tier programs your scores aren't good enough. Many schools have an unofficial cut-off of 1350. The combination of a GRE score below 1350, no publications, and little self-directed research experience is probably what kept you out.

My current supervisor (I work as an RA) said that she would find it very difficult to accept and applicant with no publications.

Regarding RAships, much of the time, at least where I live, it's very difficult to get a paid psych RAship right off the bat. Most RAs started as volunteers and then worked themselves up to a paid position. This, in a way, is nice because volunteer positions usually require less of a time commitment and volunteering in multiple places is a good way to sample different research areas, and build great reference letters. I learned from volunteering this year that I actually am not that interested in cognitive neuropsych.

Good luck and don't get too down. I applied three times. The second time I applied my application was not much different from the first time. This third time I made sure to get as much experience as I could. I volunteered to research with different clinical populations, got experience conducting assessments, worked up to a paid RAship, and got a first authored poster. My GRE is better than yours but your GPA is much better than mine, and I just got my first acceptance at one of my top choice schools.
 
I'll definitely try... I'm attempting to think positively now, and I have plans, but I'm still mostly down in the dumps. Considering just looking into MS/MA programs. Or... I don't know. I'll wait and see how I'm feeling. I'm technically still waiting for my final three rejections, which I assume are coming after people have accepted offers.
 
I've read many, many sources (some of which polled professors) that say clinical experience prior to graduate school is not necessary or a deciding factor. The rationale is that they will teach you what you need to know clinically once you get in, and the types of clinical experience you get with a bachelor's are not at all the same as what you will need to know (wish I'd known this before I worked in psychiatric hospitals, but eh).

Research experience is the key. I got a fully paid 2-year postbac fellowship to do research at NIH without a lick of prior research experience. Granted, it was neuro research not at all related to what I wanted to do in grad school, but I also wasn't cognizant enough of the absolute necessity of a narrow and specific research match at the time, and it was all I could get. With your research experience you could probably get a solid position in the area you want. NIH is a fantastic place where every kind of research imaginable is being conducted and there is funding to attend conferences, experts in the field, and a huge plethora of opportunities. By this time in the year they may have already filled their postbac positions as most postbacs start in the summer. Just something to consider.

I know it hurts. I went through the same thing, and I'd gone to an Ivy and gotten a 1500 GRE and thought the rest would fall into place. I just didn't realize what the field prioritized or how cutthroat the competition would be.

You sound like a really solid candidate, especially for someone straight out of undergrad (actually it quite impressed me when I met anyone straight out of undergrad at interviews, just because so many people have had a few years of full time postbac research. You're on the right track, and you've got everything lined up much better than I did at the same point in time. I was a neuro undergrad and no one I knew was trying to get into a clinical psych program. Now I've been accepted to a fully funded + hefty stipend JD/PhD Clinical Psych program.

Takeaway: I don't think it's a failure to not be able to get in straight out of undergrad. The field is so competitive that it's kind of par for the course. Best of luck. We've been there.
 
Last edited:
Top