I find this insulting

[WVUPharm2007]

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They're bashing him for being a jerk.

Her, actually. Her.

Which I find very comforting because at least the sexist wing of the feminist movement can't ramble on about how evil men are.

 

[rph3664]

When I did rotations, one of my preceptors once worked at a hospital that did elective 3rd trimester abortions; this was in the mid 1970s shortly after Roe v. Wade. The overwhelming majority were not done on dying women with fatally deformed infants; they were usually performed on teenage girls from middle- or upper-class families whose parents had just discovered they were pregnant, and were making them get rid of it to spare the families the embarrassment. 😱 This hospital had to stop doing them because of people like my preceptor who refused to dispense the meds for them (it was 23.4% saline and something else, and these were used for nothing else) and also because the OB department had such high turnover, as most of the nurses refused to participate in this.

Although my preceptor was strongly pro-life, she would dispense meds for early abortions because she felt they were in a safe place with a competent doctor, and if they didn't have it done there, they might go to a place that wasn't safe (look up Kermit Gosnell for a recent example of this) or do it themselves.

 

[owlegrad]

...

Suicide is a sin to religious people, isn't it? If someone attempts suicide, and then arrives at the pharmacy after being prescribed something, would it be okay for the pharmacist to say "I think you're a sinner. Leave."

...

Excellent point B, couldn't have said it better myself. Maybe in fewer words, but certainly not better.

What if the person is verbally abusive? That's a non-medical issue as well.
I think pharmacists should always have the right to refuse to fill.

I concede the point that there are valid non-medical reasons to refuse to fill. But again, how far do you go? You can't discriminate against any protected classes, etc. As for being verbally abusive, do you think rude people don't deserve to be treated?

 

[PharmDstudent]

Excellent point B, couldn't have said it better myself. Maybe in fewer words, but certainly not better.



I concede the point that there are valid non-medical reasons to refuse to fill. But again, how far do you go? You can't discriminate against any protected classes, etc. As for being verbally abusive, do you think rude people don't deserve to be treated?

I guess, if I HAVE to, I'll fill their nitro. But that's all

 

[Pharmavixen]

As for refusing to dispense: Regardless of what the law says about conscientious refusal, pharmacists should be allowed to refuse any prescription for any reason, or even for no reason at all.

If you own something, you get to decide whether or not to sell it. The pharmacist owns the drugs, so he gets to decide whether or not to sell them. It's really just a question of property rights.

Except there's the whole "duty of care" thing that we owe to our patients by virtue of being health care professionals. If it were "just" a question of property rights, we would be no more than highly paid retail workers.

You're spot on about privacy legislation, however. We had new privacy legislation enacted in Canada about 5 years ago. There's so much misunderstanding around "circle of care" that we now ask inmates to sign a blank "request for health care information" in case we have to phone a clinic/hospital for information. Huge waste of time/trees having to fax all these things because nurses/doctors refuse to tell me over the phone what medications our mutual patient is taking.

I can see maybe if the pt is HIV/psychiatric. But having to fax a consent form to discover the pt is taking, say, hydrochlorothiazide and ramipril kinda burns my backside.

 

[naus]

So if I don't like black people I can hang a sign "No Blacks", right? Your understanding of your rights as a retailer is flawed. Refusing to dispense medication for non-medical reasons (imo) violates professional responsibility. In this case it is particularly horrible as the medication doesn't even cause the abortion. It would be like refusing to give activated charcoal to someone who deliberately ODed because they don't deserve treatment. Bad, bad, bad.

+1 👍

 

[Old Timer]

This is two people with little wieners having a pissing contest. They are BOTH wrong. The nurse is more wrong than the pharmacist but not by much. The lack of professionalism displayed here is mind boggling.

Pharmacist:
Has every right to ask for the diagnosis. She has NO right to ask if the patient had an elective abortion. There is a clear difference. The former is asking for information to make sure the therapy prescribed is appropriate for the patient. The latter is an attempt to force their morality on unsuspecting patient. The nurse could have said severe bleeding S/P D&E. You can have a D&E after a miscarriage or you can have a D&E as an elective abortion. Knowing the reason for the D&E is none of the pharmacists business and plays no role in verifying the appropriateness of the therapy.

Nurse: Suffering from delusions of grandeur and she obviously knows less about the law than she does about the role of a pharmacist. The I am the prescriber, I am GOD, just fill the fu**ing order the way I wrote it is dead and buried. It died sometime in the 1970's. Pharmacists will question you all of the time and they may refuse to fill your orders is the dosage is incorrect or inappropriate based on the diagnosis.

As a pharmacist you have the right to refuse to fill any prescription as long as you have a good reason not to. The reason had better be good. If somebody is being abusive, you pull them aside and say, look Mr or Ms. Loudmouth. Please keep a your tone civil or I will be unable to help you. If you continue to be abusive to me or my staff, I will be unable to help you and I will have to ask you to leave. I once had a pregnant sixth year pharmacy student and an irate woman threw her refill bottle at her, it bounced of the counter and hit her in the stomach. I pulled her out of line, gave her the bottle back and asked her to leave and not come back until she apologized to my student. If we didn't fill prescriptions for *******s, volume would decrease by 50%.

 

[Pharmavixen]

I like OT's analysis. Good summary 👍 But this:

I once had a pregnant sixth year pharmacy student and an irate woman threw her refill bottle at her, it bounced of the counter and hit her in the stomach. I pulled her out of line, gave her the bottle back and asked her to leave and not come back until she apologized to my student. If we didn't fill prescriptions for *******s, volume would decrease by 50%.

Not to get o/t, but throwing things at the pharmacist is for me a banning offence. I've had bottles thrown at me twice in my career, and one guy who took a swing at me (he missed). All these people were banned.

 

[MountainPharmD]

I like OT's analysis. Good summary 👍 But this:



Not to get o/t, but throwing things at the pharmacist is for me a banning offence. I've had bottles thrown at me twice in my career, and one guy who took a swing at me (he missed). All these people were banned.

You obviously have not worked corporate retail pharmacy lately. At my store the store manager would have come back and asked the intern what she did to cause the customer to throw the bottle at her. Then she would have asked the intern what she will do in the future to provide better customer service and avoid having people throw things at her. Then she would have called the pharmacy supervisor and told her there is a customer service problem in the pharmacy because she is receiving complaints from customers. Then there would be a big meeting between the store manager, pharmacy supervisor and the intern. They would tell the intern that no matter what if a customer complains it is her fault and she needs to get behind the companies customer first strategy.

In the end the customer would have received an apology from the store manager and the pharmacy supervisior and would have received a $50.00 gift card.

Corp retail pharmacy is awesome!

 

[Dalteparin]

Suicide is a sin to religious people, isn't it? If someone attempts suicide, and then arrives at the pharmacy after being prescribed something, would it be okay for the pharmacist to say "I think you're a sinner. Leave."

That depends. Is he getting antidepressants, which will hopefully prevent him from attempting suicide again? Or did his doctor prescribe a fatal dose of pain medications so that he'll finish the job this time? If it's the former, of course I would fill it. If it's the latter, then it doesn't matter what my religious beliefs are; helping people commit suicide is against the law in my state, and if I fill a script like that, my license is toast.

Besides, if they were to throw all the sinners out of my hospital they'd have to start with me.

 

[KCflacpht]

You obviously have not worked corporate retail pharmacy lately. At my store the store manager would have come back and asked the intern what she did to cause the customer to throw the bottle at her. Then she would have asked the intern what she will do in the future to provide better customer service and avoid having people throw things at her. Then she would have called the pharmacy supervisor and told her there is a customer service problem in the pharmacy because she is receiving complaints from customers. Then there would be a big meeting between the store manager, pharmacy supervisor and the intern. They would tell the intern that no matter what if a customer complains it is her fault and she needs to get behind the companies customer first strategy.

In the end the customer would have received an apology from the store manager and the pharmacy supervisior and would have received a $50.00 gift card.

Corp retail pharmacy is awesome!

QFT!

I had a similar incident. The usual problem- no refill on a control, on the weekend. All I said to this man was "I'm sorry, but there are no refills left on this prescription. We'll have to call your doctor on Monday for additional refills". This particular customer was so put out that he threw the bottle IN MY FACE ( it bounced off my cheek, just missing my eye!) and proceeded to throw the mother of all hissy fits. The store manager on duty was all set to give this "gentleman" a gift card to placate him, and would have done if my PIC hadn't stepped in and stopped him. In the end- my PIC basically told this guy that it probably would be better for all concerned if he took his business elsewhere. Believe me- I wasn't sorry to see him leave!

( The manager still wanted to write me up- my PIC had to explain to said ***** that having my eye put out was not something that came under the scope of customer service!?)
Retail- gotta love it sometimes!

 

[Pharmavixen]

You obviously have not worked corporate retail pharmacy lately...

Corp retail pharmacy is awesome!

Wow! 'Tis true I haven't worked corporate retail in a while.

So I suppose laying assault charges against customers who throw things at you is totally out of the question. Maybe that's what pharmacists need to do to wrestle control of our profession away from the front shop managers.

After all, if people are throwing things at you and/or suing you at the drop of a hat, you need to fight back.

 

[Its Z]

You obviously have not worked corporate retail pharmacy lately. At my store the store manager would have come back and asked the intern what she did to cause the customer to throw the bottle at her. Then she would have asked the intern what she will do in the future to provide better customer service and avoid having people throw things at her. Then she would have called the pharmacy supervisor and told her there is a customer service problem in the pharmacy because she is receiving complaints from customers. Then there would be a big meeting between the store manager, pharmacy supervisor and the intern. They would tell the intern that no matter what if a customer complains it is her fault and she needs to get behind the companies customer first strategy.

In the end the customer would have received an apology from the store manager and the pharmacy supervisior and would have received a $50.00 gift card.

Corp retail pharmacy is awesome!

Why y'll haven't unionized yet, I don't know..

 

[Its Z]

Wow! 'Tis true I haven't worked corporate retail in a while.

So I suppose laying assault charges against customers who throw things at you is totally out of the question. Maybe that's what pharmacists need to do to wrestle control of our profession away from the front shop managers.

After all, if people are throwing things at you and/or suing you at the drop of a hat, you need to fight back.

Hey Canadian... it was 77 degrees here yesterday. That's fahrenheit..not celsius. How bout' y'all??

 

[MountainPharmD]

Why y'll haven't unionized yet, I don't know..

I was part of union in Colorado and I would be more than happy to be part of on here in Texas.

 

[rph3664]

QFT!

I had a similar incident. The usual problem- no refill on a control, on the weekend. All I said to this man was "I'm sorry, but there are no refills left on this prescription. We'll have to call your doctor on Monday for additional refills". This particular customer was so put out that he threw the bottle IN MY FACE ( it bounced off my cheek, just missing my eye!) and proceeded to throw the mother of all hissy fits. The store manager on duty was all set to give this "gentleman" a gift card to placate him, and would have done if my PIC hadn't stepped in and stopped him. In the end- my PIC basically told this guy that it probably would be better for all concerned if he took his business elsewhere. Believe me- I wasn't sorry to see him leave!

( The manager still wanted to write me up- my PIC had to explain to said ***** that having my eye put out was not something that came under the scope of customer service!?)
Retail- gotta love it sometimes!

This store manager sounds like the one we had when I worked retail from 1999-2002.

Lots of people act this way in public because they know that upper management will give them free merchandise for their trouble. 😡

 

[All4MyDaughter]

We have some behavioral problems with patients in our outpatient dispensing operation. We never get to "fire" patients; we have to keep them. But they can be put on behavioral contracts with consequences for acting in an inappropriate manner. And we have an onsite police force to back us up if need be. Plus no gift cards or merchandise to give away!

 

[PharmDstudent]

So I suppose laying assault charges against customers who throw things at you is totally out of the question. Maybe that's what pharmacists need to do to wrestle control of our profession away from the front shop managers.

After all, if people are throwing things at you and/or suing you at the drop of a hat, you need to fight back.

That sounds like a good idea.
I work at one of those stores that everyone thinks is a crazy store. It's gotten a lot better, but initially, it was pretty bad.
One of the customers had called my tech a fat ***...

 

[MountainPharmD]

This store manager sounds like the one we had when I worked retail from 1999-2002.

Lots of people act this way in public because they know that upper management will give them free merchandise for their trouble. 😡

Absolutly. Retail has enabled a bunch of whinny, rude, disrespectful people who act like total fools because they get rewarded for it.

 

[MountainPharmD]

That sounds like a good idea.
I work at one of those stores that everyone thinks is a crazy store.

I work at a store that is known for difficult customers. Unfortunatly my company believes any customer complaint is the fault of the employee no matter what. A customer is never wrong, or rude, or disrespectful, or verbally abusive. It is always the employees fault for causing the customer to act this way.

I was called on the carpet shortly after I was hired last year. A lady wanted to by Sudafed through the drive through. We do not sell Sudafed through the drive through and we asked her to come inside. She storms inside full of piss and vinager bitching up a storm. She has no ID because she lost her drivers license. Mind you she was just driving a car in the drive through. So more bitching ensues as she empties the contents of her wallet on the counter and pulls out a Sam's club card and throws it at me. I inform her that without a valid ID she cannot purchase Sudafed.

Next day I get called into the mangers office and asked why I would not give a customer medication for her asthmatic daughter. I was a little confused and asked her to elaborate since I did not recall telling anyone they could not have their medication. Turns out the Sudafed bitch called the store manager and told her I refused to sell her Sudafed and her daughter needed it because she had asthma. Due to my actions she suffered all night.

Long story short according to the store manager the whole incident was my fault. The customer was upset and I should have done something different to make them not upset. Forget the fact the customer was rude, verbally abusive and did not have a valid ID therefore could not legally by Sudfed. All my fault.

Gotta love retail and idiot store managers who have not one functioning brain cell.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Thankfully my store manager has more than enough common sense to know that customers can't always have their way. He doesn't give them free meds or gift cards for that matter, unless they were sold the wrong prescription and then inconvenienced.

 

[rph3664]

It is always the employees fault for causing the customer to act this way.

My 3-year retail experience was in a state border city, and one day, a regular customer who lived in the other state and had just been diagnosed with cancer came by with a fistful of prescriptions and a Public Aid card from that other state. When I saw the card, I told her that we did not take that plan, but Walgreen's across the street did.

That's all.

A couple days later, the manager called me into his office and told me that he had been informed that I had refused to fill some prescriptions. I told him that no, I did not refuse to fill them but we did not take her plan, and weren't going to either because this state is often as much as a year behind in paying Medicaid claims. 🙄 😡 (yes, it's Illinois in case you were wondering) However, I did tell her where she could go to get this done; oh, sure, I would have been happy to fill them, but I knew her meds would have cost her about $700 out of pocket and I know she didn't have that kind of money - hence the Public Aid card.

Interesting, this manager had a child with ALL. You'd think he'd be a little more sympathetic, but no.

 

[rph3664]

Thankfully my store manager has more than enough common sense to know that customers can't always have their way. He doesn't give them free meds or gift cards for that matter, unless they were sold the wrong prescription and then inconvenienced.

That's what those things are for.

 

[Pharmavixen]

Hey Canadian... it was 77 degrees here yesterday. That's fahrenheit..not celsius. How bout' y'all??

Still having to mow the lawn in January, eh?

 

[Pharmavixen]

I was part of union in Colorado and I would be more than happy to be part of on here in Texas.

I've been in a union x 13 years now, and it has its annoyances, but the benefits are 'way better than you'd get in non-unionized workplaces.

 

[Its Z]

Still having to mow the lawn in January, eh?

No silly. Our lawn goes dormant in winter. Beauty of Bermuda grass.

 

[Pharmavixen]

No silly. Our lawn goes dormant in winter. Beauty of Bermuda grass.

Are your bugs also dormant?

 

[Filler]

Ohh, so cute.

I guess that's one of the great things about winter in the north, all the bugs go away for a few months (for the most part.) I'm glad I moved the hell out of my old room, I used to have to go to war with these buggers for several months out of the year..

 

[Its Z]

Are your bugs also dormant?

Goodness No! They're just around the corner for some headsucking. Going to do a crawfish boil before the Super Bowl. Y'all get American Football up there ??

 

[Its Z]

And I firmly believe American TV programs should be prohibited in Canada unless they pay us a lot of money.. 👍 What do y'all make that's any good?



Turn this into a "Let's insult Canada" thread!

 

[MountainPharmD]

And I firmly believe American TV programs should be prohibited in Canada unless they pay us a lot of money.. 👍 What do y'all make that's any good?



Turn this into a "Let's insult Canada" thread!

Sweet the double thread jack. Masterfully done Z.....

Yeah I like Canidiots. If they didn't suck so bad the USA might slide off into the gulf of Mexico.

 

[crazybob]

I like Canadians. The ones I know are from Ontario and Nova Scotia, so I dunno about the rest of the country.

 

[Ilikechemicals]

Excellent point B, couldn't have said it better myself. Maybe in fewer words, but certainly not better.



I concede the point that there are valid non-medical reasons to refuse to fill. But again, how far do you go? You can't discriminate against any protected classes, etc. As for being verbally abusive, do you think rude people don't deserve to be treated?

I had a customer who wanted to get his lisinopril refilled. However, his insurance would not cover it since he had just got a 90ds 30 days before. I explained the situation to him. Then told him he should go home to check if he had misplaced the drugs, etc. I told him to call me if he couldn't find them and I would see what a cash price would be to cover him till the insurance would kick in. So he left, not at all in a bad mood.

He then calls the pharmacy an hour later telling me to fill his GD prescription. Then called me a male organ(slur) and then threatened to kick my %##. I permanently banned him from my store. He certainly doesnt deserve to be treated by me or my staff.

 

[Ilikechemicals]

I was part of union in Colorado and I would be more than happy to be part of on here in Texas.

My wife and I will join (we live in Texas). That's 3!

 

[Naidim]

I concede the point that there are valid non-medical reasons to refuse to fill. But again, how far do you go? You can't discriminate against any protected classes, etc. As for being verbally abusive, do you think rude people don't deserve to be treated?

They can almost always be treated elsewhere, and maybe they may even learn to be civil.

When I first worked at AOL (1994) if a customer got vulgar we could hang up on them. Within 5 minutes they would call back and almost always they'd be in a nicer tone of voice.

 

[Naidim]

In the end the customer would have received an apology from the store manager and the pharmacy supervisior and would have received a $50.00 gift card.

And this kind of stuff is what reinforces the behavior. We are creating a society of entitlement and it just gets better every day 🙂

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Okay, so the article about the pharmacist refusing to fill the Rx and its comments show people are really confused about what pharmacists do and what HIPAA entails (or hippa, which is what everyone seems to call it). It frustrated me so much, I actually created a log-in just to comment on the article. Read it if you feel like getting frustrated...

http://www.idahopress.com/news/article_d6a73c14-1eea-11e0-9f44-001cc4c03286.html

 

[R2pharmD2]

Okay, so the article about the pharmacist refusing to fill the Rx and its comments show people are really confused about what pharmacists do and what HIPAA entails (or hippa, which is what everyone seems to call it). It frustrated me so much, I actually created a log-in just to comment on the article. Read it if you feel like getting frustrated...

http://www.idahopress.com/news/article_d6a73c14-1eea-11e0-9f44-001cc4c03286.html

Fact: people are generally stupid.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I agree people are dumb and don't understand the law.

That said, the pharmacist's demand to know if it was an ELECTIVE abortion is not protected under HIPAA, in my opinion. Knowing that fact serves no legitimate medical purpose. It's akin to looking up a famous patient's RX profile out of curiosity. The question would be acceptable if there was a legitimate medical purpose but is not necessarily OK when it's asked for nonmedical reasons.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I agree people are dumb and don't understand the law.

That said, the pharmacist's demand to know if it was an ELECTIVE abortion is not protected under HIPAA, in my opinion. Knowing that fact serves no legitimate medical purpose. It's akin to looking up a famous patient's RX profile out of curiosity. The question would be acceptable if there was a legitimate medical purpose but is not necessarily OK when it's asked for nonmedical reasons.

True. I'm more frustrated that the people who commented on the article think that no pharmacist has the right to know the diagnosis ever.

I think the NP would have gotten a better response from the board if she had acknowledged that while the pharmacist is a fellow healthcare provider, there was no medical reason the pharmacist had to know what the treatment had been.

Personally, I get frustrated whenever someone refuses to legally treat a patient for whatever "moral" reason, regardless of the particular profession. And it's gotten even more frustrating to me that the majority of the reports focus on pharmacists. I've heard stories of doctors for instance seeing a male patient for several visits, saying they wouldn't prescribe an ED until the pt brought their BP down, and then once the pt did get their BP down, still wouldn't prescribe Viagra because the pt wasn't married. Then there's the doctors who won't prescribe BCP but don't tell the pt until after she's been in for her annual visit. I wish more stories in the news would focus on doctors refusing to prescribe, too.

 

[Pharmavixen]

And I firmly believe American TV programs should be prohibited in Canada unless they pay us a lot of money.. 👍 What do y'all make that's any good?