I hate medicine and I hate medical school but I just want a 'good' life

[greenlion]

I'm about to be an MS2. I come from a very medicine "oriented" family- father, mother, uncle, aunt, older sister- all doctors or doctors in training.
About me: I never really liked biology or chemistry. I went to Penn, majored in engineering and my goal in life from a young age was to be a "wall street bigshot". I tried so hard to get summer analyst positions at the big wall street banks but never could until suddenly I got a big break and got one at Bear Stearns, Investment Banking Division. That was pre-2008 and I was laid off shortly after joining and I was among the 80% of employees that weren't offered positions at JP Morgan after the buyout.

After that, I got a crappy job at a 2nd-rate investment management company. I got depressed and drank a alot. Almost two years went by in a drunken blur. I decided to fall back in the "family business." I spent about a year to take the remainder pre-med courses and did the MCATs getting a nice 36. I got into a medical school and here I am...

But I'm miserable. I hate medicine. I hate having to read about medicine. I find myself drinking a lot. I still pass my classes, but I'm definitely in the bottom 25% in my class.

...........What to do?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BobbyB]

i think this is more of a depression problem than a medicine problem

how is your depression? do you have feelings of failure?

 

[PanRoasted]

I'm pretty skeptical of your story, but I'll bite.

I would agree with psychotherapy over asking a forum of doctors/in training about how to deal with hating medicine while in medical school. However, the obvious solution seems to be that you should drop out before you commit even more time/resources into a career that you will hate.

 

[DermViser]

So you wish to go back being a "Wall Street bigshot", which you weren't?

 

[Silent Cool]

I'm about to be an MS2. I come from a very medicine "oriented" family- father, mother, uncle, aunt, older sister- all doctors or doctors in training.
About me: I never really liked biology or chemistry. I went to Penn, majored in engineering and my goal in life from a young age was to be a "wall street bigshot". I tried so hard to get summer analyst positions at the big wall street banks but never could until suddenly I got a big break and got one at Bear Stearns, Investment Banking Division. That was pre-2008 and I was laid off shortly after joining and I was among the 80% of employees that weren't offered positions at JP Morgan after the buyout.

After that, I got a crappy job at a 2nd-rate investment management company. I got depressed and drank a alot. Almost two years went by in a drunken blur. I decided to fall back in the "family business." I spent about a year to take the remainder pre-med courses and did the MCATs getting a nice 36. I got into a medical school and here I am...

But I'm miserable. I hate medicine. I hate having to read about medicine. I find myself drinking a lot. I still pass my classes, but I'm definitely in the bottom 25% in my class.

...........What to do?

-Take a leave of absence.
-Reconsider everything.
-If you are easily passing everything....well, might be good to just finish and then use your medical knowledge on wallstreet.

 

[greenlion]

I'm pretty skeptical of your story, but I'll bite.

I would agree with psychotherapy over asking a forum of doctors/in training about how to deal with hating medicine while in medical school. However, the obvious solution seems to be that you should drop out before you commit even more time/resources into a career that you will hate.

Your initial comment might keep others from chiming in- so PM me with an email address. I can send you an email from my University of Pennsylvania alumni account and another from my med school account. Then you can research my name on linkedin to see my finance background. I'll just trust you not to repeat my name/information in public. Fair?

 

[smpbound]

-Take a leave of absence.
-Reconsider everything.
-If you are easily passing everything....well, might be good to just finish and then use your medical knowledge on wallstreet.

right, when a trader suffers a heart attack or stroke, you'll be able to do CPR.

 

[greenlion]

i think this is more of a depression problem than a medicine problem

how is your depression? do you have feelings of failure?

Yes, you're exactly right. I'm extremely depressed and I feel my alcohol abuse is out of control (thought it hasn't yet been enough to keep me out of school). Ironically, I've been planning on a psychiatry residency.

 

[greenlion]

So you wish to go back being a "Wall Street bigshot", which you weren't?

I know you're ridiculing me...but yes. It's rather funny until one considers it as their own lifetime.

 

[DermViser]

I know you're ridiculing me...but yes. It's rather funny until one considers it as their own lifetime.

Actually, I'm not ridiculing. I'm being very much serious: "I tried so hard to get summer analyst positions at the big wall street banks but never could until suddenly I got a big break and got one at Bear Stearns, Investment Banking Division. That was pre-2008 and I was laid off shortly after joining and I was among the 80% of employees that weren't offered positions at JP Morgan after the buyout. After that, I got a crappy job at a 2nd-rate investment management company. I got depressed and drank a alot. Almost two years went by in a drunken blur. I decided to fall back in the "family business."

I apologize if I gave the impression that I was ridiculing you. I was not.

 

[Silent Cool]

right, when a trader suffers a heart attack or stroke, you'll be able to do CPR.

Ha ha ha.
That's not what I meant.

A lot of wallstreet financial firms hire physicians to be a part of their investing team because it looks good to have a physician on board.

That's what I meant.

 

[tco]

Register for this website

http://www.dropoutclub.org/main/authorization/signIn?target=http://www.dropoutclub.org/

It's anonymous, and provides avenues for employment after medical school other than residency. Basically, it gets you out of medicine but lets you still use your MD.

 

[StIGMA]

Something important to point out-

You haven't experienced medicine yet. You are not even an M2 yet. Be optimistic that there may be a niche you enjoy during M3/M4. Keep an open eye/mind and don't let your own bias or other peoples' biases interfere. Try not to close too many doors right now. Consider taking a year off if you need to find your bearings.

 

[Law2Doc]

Ha ha ha.
That's not what I meant.

A lot of wallstreet financial firms hire physicians to be a part of their investing team because it looks good to have a physician on board.

That's what I meant.

I wouldn't say "a lot". There a few out there, to help analyze medical technology and pharmaceutical companies. Hardly wall street big shots though. Consulting firms are more likely to hire physicians, but that's far away from the finance side OP liked.

If one is in the bottom 25% of his med school class, depressed, and drinking a lot, he probably shouldn't push on to the more isolating longer houred clinical years of med school without first getting some help.

 

[jakeislove]

You may find things to love about medicine during 3rd and 4th year.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

You need to see a psychiatrist and get evaluated for possible depression and alcohol abuse/dependence.

It may well be that medicine is not for you; but don't make life altering choices while possibly suffering from a major mental illness.

 

[DermViser]

You may find things to love about medicine during 3rd and 4th year.

 

[Kahreek]

you got a second shot, you are in a very desirable field.
just find a specialty with low hours and/or you can cope with.
Medicine wont be like wolf of wallstreet or anyway you paint it, though

 

[Porfirio]

Why not grind out the MD and go into the business side of medicine?

 

[Arkangeloid]

you got a second shot, you are in a very desirable field.
just find a specialty with low hours and/or you can cope with.
Medicine wont be like wolf of wallstreet or anyway you paint it, though

I will not die sober.

 

[Shjanzey]

I will not die sober.

This is ridiculous. You need to check yourself. The OP has an admitted drinking problem. He needs to get help for that, and address the underlying depression issues he is suffering with. Your stupid quip doesn't help anything.

 

[Arkangeloid]

This is ridiculous. You need to check yourself. The OP has an admitted drinking problem. He needs to get help for that, and address the underlying depression issues he is suffering with. Your stupid quip doesn't help anything.

I was alluding to Wolf of Wall Street, haven't you seen the movie?

 

[sinombre]

I was alluding to Wolf of Wall Street, haven't you seen the movie?

It's still inappropriate when the OP may very well have a problem. I know you probably have no experience with this given your history, but serious alcoholism isn't a joke.

 

[static brown]

.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Go to a psychiatrist and have him/her help you re-evaluate your life.

 

[creditmd]

I don't know if this will help the OP- but maybe you should realize that you weren't going to be a wall street "bigshot" anyway. You were in banking at an ok bank. That's nice but in most people's eyes it wasn't a bulge bracket and you (prob) weren't going to go on to private equity at a decent mid or upper market firm. Even if you stayed on in IBD there's a good chance you wouldn't make it to managing director (just from my experience- brainy ivy league engineers rarely are good enough in sales to make IBD MD).

I too am an ex-wall streeter and so I know how it is- being young and feeling like a prince of NYC is GREAT. I was on the trading side (commodity structuring) instead of banking which is even more pronounced in the ego department. I too was laid off. Luckily, I was always interested in medicine and hence it isn't a burden to me. However, I too sometimes pine for the good old days. I got my fair share of sexy models and exclusive sports tickets (usually from the interbroker guys). But medicine has it's advantages even over high finance: 1) stability. I can't remember how many youngins' would be making 700k+ bonuses one year and laid off the next. 2) helping people/recognition of doing so. Have you seen Occupy Wallstreet? If the average American wasn't so lazy he/she would join.

Also- I think psychiatry might be a good choice for you. You could even be a psychiatrist to wall street types in NYC. You'd be surprised how superstitious and unscientific some of these people can be even after the advent of algorithmic trading. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get hired as the "in house" psychiatrist in S&T and share in the bonus pool. Just publish some BS about trader psychology in a reputable journal.

 

[DermViser]

I will not die sober.

While I get the "joke" you intended was quoting Wolf on Wall Street, but the OP has an actual drinking problem. Hence why your joke fell flat.

 

[Smokemont]

While I get the "joke" you intended was quoting Wolf on Wall Street, but the OP has an actual drinking problem. Hence why your joke fell flat.

Why do u feel the need to repeat what someone else has said on almost every thread on this forum? It's like clockwork. Someone will post something controversial, another will call them on it, then u will basically repeat what the latter says. Almost like u need some existing backup before you argue or disagree with someone.

Oh yea, and why the **** do you spend so much time on here posting?

 

[masaraksh]

Oh yea, and why the **** do you spend so much time on here posting?

Yeah, he must be a dermatologist or something

 

[DermViser]

Why do u feel the need to repeat what someone else has said on almost every thread on this forum? It's like clockwork. Someone will post something controversial, another will call them on it, then u will basically repeat what the latter says. Almost like u need some existing backup before you argue or disagree with someone.

Oh yea, and why the **** do you spend so much time on here posting?

Yeah, he must be a dermatologist or something

No, I actually don't. But to answer you:

 

[Smokemont]

Yes, actually you do...and no, but I am curious.

 

[Fedaykin]

right, when a trader suffers a heart attack or stroke, you'll be able to do CPR.

The letters MD can open quite a few doors unrelated to medicine. Similarly, a friend of mine is just finishing up his PhD. He ended up at a wedding talking to someone in the executive ranks at Merrill who offered him a job on the spot simply for his degree. He said he could pick anything he wanted to do- wealth management, currency speculation, anything- and they'd train him. Why? They want to tell their shareholders they have people with doctorates on their staff, and if he was smart and driven enough for a PhD, then he was smart and driven enough to do anything he wanted to in their company. Granted, my friend isn't a schlub and comes off as an extremely professional and well-adjusted person which also helps. But the bottom line is that credentials aren't what make you. A degree is a tool that a smart, talented person will find a way to parlay into career opportunities.

Someone with an MD would be coveted on the sales staff of many medical device and equipment companies. That would be a huge foot in the door. Then he could earn an MBA at night while doing sales during the day. Bottom line? If you think an MD isn't very useful unless you want to be a doctor, then you're a horribly unimaginative person.

 

[greenlion]

I don't know if this will help the OP- but maybe you should realize that you weren't going to be a wall street "bigshot" anyway. You were in banking at an ok bank. That's nice but in most people's eyes it wasn't a bulge bracket and you (prob) weren't going to go on to private equity at a decent mid or upper market firm. Even if you stayed on in IBD there's a good chance you wouldn't make it to managing director (just from my experience- brainy ivy league engineers rarely are good enough in sales to make IBD MD).

I too am an ex-wall streeter and so I know how it is- being young and feeling like a prince of NYC is GREAT. I was on the trading side (commodity structuring) instead of banking which is even more pronounced in the ego department. I too was laid off. Luckily, I was always interested in medicine and hence it isn't a burden to me. However, I too sometimes pine for the good old days. I got my fair share of sexy models and exclusive sports tickets (usually from the interbroker guys). But medicine has it's advantages even over high finance: 1) stability. I can't remember how many youngins' would be making 700k+ bonuses one year and laid off the next. 2) helping people/recognition of doing so. Have you seen Occupy Wallstreet? If the average American wasn't so lazy he/she would join.

Also- I think psychiatry might be a good choice for you. You could even be a psychiatrist to wall street types in NYC. You'd be surprised how superstitious and unscientific some of these people can be even after the advent of algorithmic trading. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get hired as the "in house" psychiatrist in S&T and share in the bonus pool. Just publish some BS about trader psychology in a reputable journal.

Well I was there for less than a year- but when I was there we were #3 in the league tables for tcom M&A (my area). Not bulge bracket, yes, but it's not like Bear wasn't a huge name. You said you were in commodity structures- Bear was an absolute BEAST in OTC freight! And I honestly believe if our greedy traders didn't colossally fck us in CDO/CMOs we would still be in business and I could be an IBD AVP by now at the very least.

However, I get what you're saying. I'm pining for something I never *really* had. That's interesting about being the psychiatrist to the traders- but to be honest I think returning to NYC and being near the bankers/traders would just trigger too much jealousy/be depressing.

 

[oracle2]

I went to a school for undergrad comparable to UPenn. I know lots of MBAs. If you have any Street experience (or any business experience period, really, and you come from a top undergrad, you can get into a top business school where the opportunities are far better reruitingwise than any undergrad school. If you were really interested in business you would have just stuck it out and copped the MBA after 3 years of work experience. I call flame on this whole post.

 

[anon9301]

Well I was there for less than a year- but when I was there we were #3 in the league tables for tcom M&A (my area). Not bulge bracket, yes, but it's not like Bear wasn't a huge name. You said you were in commodity structures- Bear was an absolute BEAST in OTC freight! And I honestly believe if our greedy traders didn't colossally fck us in CDO/CMOs we would still be in business and I could be an IBD AVP by now at the very least.

However, I get what you're saying. I'm pining for something I never *really* had. That's interesting about being the psychiatrist to the traders- but to be honest I think returning to NYC and being near the bankers/traders would just trigger too much jealousy/be depressing.

Greenlion, I was in a position similar to you. I went to target and for a while I was really jealous of the path that my finance friends were on, spending the summer in NYC making bank, graduating and making 100k+, and unlike what SDN seems to think, having the potential to make exponentially more money later. I know you know that your jealousy is a personal problem that must be overcome in order to achieve actual happiness and fulfillment, and I won’t preach about the fundamental flaws we have as people and how to fix them or about money not mattering etc., but let me briefly touch upon the thinking that helped me recover from similar feelings.

First of all, most of the kids I know that went into IB were using money and (maybe eventual) power to compensate for insecurities that they had from not being cool in high school, not being good looking, not getting with girls etc. The legit kids I knew that went into IB hated the soul sucking work and hours and got out as quickly as they could, because what normal/cool person would want to spend 100+ hours looking at excel sheets?

Second, most of these kids are even more jealous and insecure than you are. Their careers are being pursued exclusively for monetary reasons. If someone makes more money than them, that person is in their opinion objectively better and more successful. People who live like this will be miserable unless they are 1) the very best 2) eventually step out of the rat race, stop comparing themselves to everyone, and realize that its better if they do what actually makes them happy.

Lastly, medicine gives you the perfect opportunity to step out of the rat race and stop thinking your finance brahs are better than you. If you’re going to become a doctor, own your decision. Don’t regret it and tell people that you wish you went into finance for the money, go into a badass specialty and tell people that medicine is awesome cause you get to do something you’re actually interested in and get to significantly change the lives of tons of people.

Obviously these kinds of problems are more than just skin deep, and I don’t mean to imply that simply giving you a way to appear on the surface that you are not filled with envy will completely fix the problem. However, this thinking was what started to get me back on the path of self actualization/whatever it is and realize that 1) medicine is what I want to do but more relevant to you…2) saving people’s lives is a lot cooler than being an excel sheet slave for 95% of your waking life in order to compensate for not being cool in high school.

tl;dr do something cool/own your decision/ppl will be mirin/we're all gonna make it brah

 

[Promethean]

GET HELP. I have a good friend who was top of his medical school despite drinking himself to sleep every night. He honored all his rotations and landed his dream residency. Still miserable and quit residency a few weeks in. He was pretty suicidal d/t 200k debt and no license. It's taken 3 years to get sober and get his act together, now trying to get back in. He had tried to take a leave of absence to get his head together, but they wouldn't let him, because he was doing so well. He couldn't convince anyone that he had a problem.

Step aside. Take a year off. Talk to your mentors and tell them what is going on with you. You aren't the only person ever to have gone through this. Once you get help, you may see things differently. Please, take care of yourself.

 

[DermViser]

GET HELP. I have a good friend who was top of his medical school despite drinking himself to sleep every night. He honored all his rotations and landed his dream residency. Still miserable and quit residency a few weeks in.

Wow, wonder if it was a stressful specialty.

 

[Promethean]

Wow, wonder if it was a stressful specialty.

Not typically regarded as such.

 

[DermViser]

Not typically regarded as such.

Well even IM residency can be stressful.

 

[Wilf]

I too am an ex-wall streeter and so I know how it is- being young and feeling like a prince of NYC is GREAT. I was on the trading side (commodity structuring) instead of banking which is even more pronounced in the ego department. I too was laid off. Luckily, I was always interested in medicine and hence it isn't a burden to me. However, I too sometimes pine for the good old days. I got my fair share of sexy models and exclusive sports tickets (usually from the interbroker guys). But medicine has it's advantages even over high finance: 1) stability. I can't remember how many youngins' would be making 700k+ bonuses one year and laid off the next. 2) helping people/recognition of doing so. Have you seen Occupy Wallstreet? If the average American wasn't so lazy he/she would join.

It is very unfortunate that the medical field has been hurt so badly thanks to the douchebag/liberal folks. Being a doctor used to be very attractive to the most intelligent people. I hope that one day doctors will quit being ******* and bring back the money/prestige that medicine should have.

 

[Promethean]

Well even IM residency can be stressful.

I was going to ask you what residency isn't stressful, really? All of them involve aspects that can cause one person or another to feel stressed out.

 

[DermViser]

I was going to ask you what residency isn't stressful, really? All of them involve aspects that can cause one person or another to feel stressed out.

Certain medical specialties can be not as stressful during residency as well.

 

[Promethean]

You never sleep. I should know, because I never sleep, and you are here on my heels every time I post.

It really wasn't about the situation, so much as the person. That is kind of the point. Even if the situation had gotten much better, the person was out of control and needed help. His depression was not purely situational. It was an internal problem that was impacting the situation. That is why it was worth mentioning to OP.

There is a chance that OP really does hate medicine and needs to get out. There is also a chance that he doesn't hate it, but needs to deal with depression / anxiety / poor coping skills / substance abuse issues. To make a decision to bail on medicine when the problem might be treatable could lead to some serious regrets. My recommendation is to get away from the situation in a way that leaves a door open for return, get treatment, and then consider what to do next.

 

[atomi]

I'm about to be an MS2. I come from a very medicine "oriented" family- father, mother, uncle, aunt, older sister- all doctors or doctors in training.
About me: I never really liked biology or chemistry. I went to Penn, majored in engineering and my goal in life from a young age was to be a "wall street bigshot". I tried so hard to get summer analyst positions at the big wall street banks but never could until suddenly I got a big break and got one at Bear Stearns, Investment Banking Division. That was pre-2008 and I was laid off shortly after joining and I was among the 80% of employees that weren't offered positions at JP Morgan after the buyout.

After that, I got a crappy job at a 2nd-rate investment management company. I got depressed and drank a alot. Almost two years went by in a drunken blur. I decided to fall back in the "family business." I spent about a year to take the remainder pre-med courses and did the MCATs getting a nice 36. I got into a medical school and here I am...

But I'm miserable. I hate medicine. I hate having to read about medicine. I find myself drinking a lot. I still pass my classes, but I'm definitely in the bottom 25% in my class.

...........What to do?

This is common. You have three choices:

1. Stay in medicine on your current path, which is basically just auto-pilot doing the bare minimum being bitter, not getting a good fund of knowledge in med school (which requires a lot of effort beyond what it takes to pass clerkships), not matching well, struggling in residency, and eventually becoming a subpar and likely impaired physician.

2. Take some time off and seek professional counseling for help with your alcohol abuse and gaining perspective about your opportunities in medicine and defining why exactly you hate it.

3. Quit now while it's still financially feasible.

You have an engineering degree from an Ivy league school. Engineering is a great profession that pays comparably to medicine for the amount of work you do. (An engineer may earn $90k/year working 40 relaxed hours a week (with 20-30 hours of actual work) vs. a doctor who earns $250k/year who works 65 stress filled hours a week where he barely has time to take a bathroom break and is working 95% of the time he is at work). If you have any interest at all in engineering, I would suggest you consider this route. You won't make as much money as an engineer, but you might have a more enjoyable life that gives you time to do things that make you happy and you won't feel the need to drink anymore.

 

[DermViser]

This is common. You have three choices:

1. Stay in medicine on your current path, which is basically just auto-pilot doing the bare minimum being bitter, not getting a good fund of knowledge in med school (which requires a lot of effort beyond what it takes to pass clerkships), not matching well, struggling in residency, and eventually becoming a subpar and likely impaired physician.

2. Take some time off and seek professional counseling for help with your alcohol abuse and gaining perspective about your opportunities in medicine and defining why exactly you hate it.

3. Quit now while it's still financially feasible.

You have an engineering degree from an Ivy league school. Engineering is a great profession that pays comparably to medicine for the amount of work you do. (An engineer may earn $90k/year working 40 relaxed hours a week (with 20-30 hours of actual work) vs. a doctor who earns $250k/year who works 65 stress filled hours a week where he barely has time to take a bathroom break and is working 95% of the time he is at work). If you have any interest at all in engineering, I would suggest you consider this route. You won't make as much money as an engineer, but you might have a more enjoyable life that gives you time to do things that make you happy and you won't feel the need to drink anymore.

I didn't know the lifestyle of Engineers was so good. Mind you I know nothing about Engineering.

 

[DermViser]

Something important to point out-

You haven't experienced medicine yet. You are not even an M2 yet. Be optimistic that there may be a niche you enjoy during M3/M4. Keep an open eye/mind and don't let your own bias or other peoples' biases interfere. Try not to close too many doors right now. Consider taking a year off if you need to find your bearings.

You think it gets easier?

 

[Fluffy Pomeranian]

I didn't know the lifestyle of Engineers was so good. Mind you I know nothing about Engineering.

Eh, I think the above description is slightly exaggerated, based on what I've seen from friends and family members who are engineers. It varies quite a bit depending on what type of engineering and the caliber of the program one graduated from. Software and computer engineers can often make $100,000-$150,000 working 9-5 and the ability to often work from home. I know several who landed jobs paying $90,000 and lots of vacation time straight out of college, by virtue of graduating from a top program. But I don't believe most other engineers (with the exception of chemical and petroleum engineers who are probably the highest paid) often reach six figures. And working for top companies like say Google, comes with a lot of cool perks like free food, free dry-cleaning, exercise equipment in conference rooms during meetings but they will also work you to the bone. But jobs like that are out of reach to most people. Job security is also poor, and a lot of engineers find themselves laid off when they reach their 40's and 50's so that they can be replaced by a new grad and find it almost impossible to find another job at their age.

Plus I feel like you have to enjoy engineering to do it, along with having the aptitude for it. A lot of med students struggle with basic algebra problems. Forget about courses like multivariable calculus, differential equations, quantum mechanics, statics, etc. that you have to get through to become an engineer. It's not for everyone.

 

[mvenus929]

You think it gets easier?

"Easier"? No. But most people tend to enjoy parts of third year more than first and second year, because they are actually doing something, rather than just studying theoretical things in textbooks.

 

[DermViser]

"Easier"? No. But most people tend to enjoy parts of third year more than first and second year, because they are actually doing something, rather than just studying theoretical things in textbooks.

Depends. Medicine can also sound much more better and "clean" in textbooks and review books, while the clinical wards with the mundane, make it not as exciting. See how Internal Medicine sounds in Harrison's and how the MS-3 clerkship is like. Also in MS-3, you're not doing much, like you think you might be.

 

[StIGMA]

You think it gets easier?

It gets different. I prefer moving around and interacting with people than being isolated and studying notes. If the OP hates the "reading about medicine," which at this point is endless studying, it will be better. The studying is the most intense/condensed during M1/M2. Perhaps mixing that with clinicals will be a significant improvement. It's at least something for the OP to consider.