I Hate School Psychology

[deleted343839]

Many people have an idealized version of what things are like in other institutions. It's rarely the nice big, book lined, offices that you see in TV/movies.

Yeah, I like the salary, benefits, and academic opportunities at an AMC, but the office situation kind of sucks, and I know I'm not alone in that. But it's also true that every private practice office I've ever seen is nicer than mine. Depends on what's important to you, I guess.

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[Therapist4Chnge]

Yeah, I like the salary, benefits, and academic opportunities at an AMC, but the office situation kind of sucks, and I know I'm not alone in that. But it's also true that every private practice office I've ever seen is nicer than mine. Depends on what's important to you, I guess.

I happen to like my desk from the early to mid-80s…it was quite the happening time! My wobbly rolling table for testing, it is just more experienced than most of the furniture you'd find in a private practice office. I could go to many garage sales this weekend and not find the mishmash of chair designs that I currently possess. My cabinet is actually pretty nice and vintage (aka..older than I am), though it pales in comparison to my coat and hat rack, which was most likely made by gentlemen who enjoyed a pack of smokes while watching The Honeymooners and yelling at the television. All and all…academic medicine is a pretty sweet place to be.

ps. Admittedly I have large windows and a pretty nice view…so there is that.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I happen to like my desk from the early to mid-80s…it was quite the happening time! My wobbly rolling table for testing, it is just more experienced than most of the furniture you'd find in a private practice office. I could go to many garage sales this weekend and not find the mishmash of chair designs that I currently possess. My cabinet is actually pretty nice and vintage (aka..older than I am), though it pales in comparison to my coat and hat rack, which was most likely made by gentlemen who enjoyed a pack of smokes while watching The Honeymooners and yelling at the television. All and all…academic medicine is a pretty sweet place to be.

ps. Admittedly I have large windows and a pretty nice view…so there is that.

I've got all new furniture, new computers with double screen setup, and the cushiest, comfiest chair --- and yet I'd gladly give it up for a window! (I'm in a basement, directly across from a bathroom, so I get to know everyone's bathroom schedules...)

 

[deleted343839]

(I'm in a basement, directly across from a bathroom, so I get to know everyone's bathroom schedules...)

You win!

 

[FadedC]

I do not know why Jane77 edited out her post. Everything she said was true and exactly what I have experienced and the reason I want out! Yes, I was lured in by the salary and the great "teacher hours", but found out that those things are not worth my integrity. I was asked to do highly unethical things, shoved in closets and one director of special education even made up a fake performance plan to shove me out. The superintendent of curriculum stood behind her even when the teachers union pointed out the inconsistencies in the document, backing up my assertion that I had never laid eyes on it before. Admin sticks together! Make no mistake, they will find ways to punish you if you refuse to do what they want.

Yeah, as I said, administration has a lot of power, and they don't always use it for good. It's also hard to fire people, so if your supervisor hates you and wants you out they will often have to make excuses to get rid of you. If it gets to that point, your probably better off leaving on your own, because your clearly not in a good spot, and it's not like there is a shortage of other places to work, many of which have more reasonable people.

 

[deleted760483]

School Psych can be a rough gig. I did a 9 month assessment practicum in a high school and found it a very mixed experience. The hours were quite nice and unlike the OP I actually did enjoy working with kids. However, our office wasn't quite a broom closet, but it was a windowless cubicle that was literally in the middle of a wide hallway. Job security can be rough too, my supervisor was very good at her job but lived in constant fear of downsizing due to budget cuts, and this was in a pretty affluent area.

All that being said, I concur with others that the general pattern you are describing suggests possible behavior/personality issues which could manifest themselves at any job and are probably worth examining.

 

[Jane77]

I do not know why Jane77 edited out her post. Everything she said was true and exactly what I have experienced and the reason I want out! Yes, I was lured in by the salary and the great "teacher hours", but found out that those things are not worth my integrity. I was asked to do highly unethical things, shoved in closets and one director of special education even made up a fake performance plan to shove me out. The superintendent of curriculum stood behind her even when the teachers union pointed out the inconsistencies in the document, backing up my assertion that I had never laid eyes on it before. Admin sticks together! Make no mistake, they will find ways to punish you if you refuse to do what they want.

So glad someone understands what I am going through. I can't "help" kids or anybody else in this career. I am a testing robot and nothing more.

I whole-heartedly agree with what I wrote, however, I realize that many who respond would say that Im "whiny" or "ranty". Probably not the best group to bring up personal concerns or to look for advice. Kind of ironic given that many people on this board are phds or studying to be licensed psychologists.

 

[Jane77]

School Psych can be a rough gig. I did a 9 month assessment practicum in a high school and found it a very mixed experience. The hours were quite nice and unlike the OP I actually did enjoy working with kids. However, our office wasn't quite a broom closet, but it was a windowless cubicle that was literally in the middle of a wide hallway. Job security can be rough too, my supervisor was very good at her job but lived in constant fear of downsizing due to budget cuts, and this was in a pretty affluent area.

All that being said, I concur with others that the general pattern you are describing suggests possible behavior/personality issues which could manifest themselves at any job and are probably worth examining.

You did nine whole months? In a practicum? Wow, I guess you really are in a position to judge someone who has worked full time in the school district for years. I hope you picked up on my sarcasm.

I don't think people who don't like SP necessarily have personal issues. Some people are a bad fit for the culture, some people realize they made a mistake in thinking that they were going to practice psychology in the schools. And then there is the common sense realization that some people just need to vent. If everyone that complained about their job had "behavioral issues" than I guess we all need professional help.

As an SP instead if working as a psychologist, I find that I am more of a secretary/paperwork guru than anything else. I didnt spend three years in grad school to stare at a screen fot 9-10 hours a day so I can do mind-numbing procedural compliance. There are legitamate gripes with the field and some districts have horrible models for service delivery.

Granted, it was my poor decision to get into the field and it is no one's fault but my own but to be fair, there is a huge disconnect between training and practice. There is a high rate of turnover in the field. And dont get me started on the culture of the school districts. You have to live it to understand how demoralizing it can be to someone with a sense of integrity and a drive for excellence. And might I add you get treated MUCH differently as a full time employee than as a practicum person.

All vitriol and rhetoric aside, the OP brought up an important question. After you have invested years of your life into a career field that no longer has any professional definition and provides no opportunity to determine how you do your job, where can you go from there? There is not a lot if recognition for SP in other fields of study in Psychology. I would have to start from ground zero to get a clinical psych degree.

 

[deleted760483]

You did nine whole months? In a practicum? Wow, I guess you really are in a position to judge someone who has worked full time in the school district for years. I hope you picked up on my sarcasm.

I don't think people who don't like SP necessarily have personal issues. Some people are a bad fit for the culture, some people realize they made a mistake in thinking that they were going to practice psychology in the schools. And then there is the common sense realization that some people just need to vent. If everyone that complained about their job had "behavioral issues" than I guess we all need professional help.

As an SP instead if working as a psychologist, I find that I am more of a secretary/paperwork guru than anything else. I didnt spend three years in grad school to stare at a screen fot 9-10 hours a day so I can do mind-numbing procedural compliance. There are legitamate gripes with the field and some districts have horrible models for service delivery.

Granted, it was my poor decision to get into the field and it is no one's fault but my own but to be fair, there is a huge disconnect between training and practice. There is a high rate of turnover in the field. And dont get me started on the culture of the school districts. You have to live it to understand how demoralizing it can be to someone with a sense of integrity and a drive for excellence. And might I add you get treated MUCH differently as a full time employee than as a practicum person.

All vitriol and rhetoric aside, the OP brought up an important question. After you have invested years of your life into a career field that no longer has any professional definition and provides no opportunity to determine how you do your job, where can you go from there? There is not a lot if recognition for SP in other fields of study in Psychology. I would have to start from ground zero to get a clinical psych degree.

Did you read the thread at all? The OP has apparently lost multiple jobs due to personality issues (his/her words), has blown up on people in this thread, and apparently became a school psychologist despite not really wanting to work with kids, not enjoying school settings, and not wanting to have any bosses. I don't really feel like my last statement was unwarranted.

 

[psych.meout]

You did nine whole months? In a practicum? Wow, I guess you really are in a position to judge someone who has worked full time in the school district for years. I hope you picked up on my sarcasm.

I don't think people who don't like SP necessarily have personal issues. Some people are a bad fit for the culture, some people realize they made a mistake in thinking that they were going to practice psychology in the schools. And then there is the common sense realization that some people just need to vent. If everyone that complained about their job had "behavioral issues" than I guess we all need professional help.

As an SP instead if working as a psychologist, I find that I am more of a secretary/paperwork guru than anything else. I didnt spend three years in grad school to stare at a screen fot 9-10 hours a day so I can do mind-numbing procedural compliance. There are legitamate gripes with the field and some districts have horrible models for service delivery.

Granted, it was my poor decision to get into the field and it is no one's fault but my own but to be fair, there is a huge disconnect between training and practice. There is a high rate of turnover in the field. And dont get me started on the culture of the school districts. You have to live it to understand how demoralizing it can be to someone with a sense of integrity and a drive for excellence. And might I add you get treated MUCH differently as a full time employee than as a practicum person.

All vitriol and rhetoric aside, the OP brought up an important question. After you have invested years of your life into a career field that no longer has any professional definition and provides no opportunity to determine how you do your job, where can you go from there? There is not a lot if recognition for SP in other fields of study in Psychology. I would have to start from ground zero to get a clinical psych degree.

Ok, but did you read the parts of the thread where the OP talks about how they don't like working with anyone, don't like working for anyone, want to do telehealth, and otherwise basically want to minimize their contact with other people in a human service field?

 

[Blankie]

Did you read the thread at all? The OP has apparently lost multiple jobs due to personality issues (his/her words), has blown up on people in this thread, and apparently became a school psychologist despite not really wanting to work with kids, not enjoying school settings, and not wanting to have any bosses. I don't really feel like my last statement was unwarranted.

Excuse me, but I stated quite plainly that those jobs that I lost were due to standing up to administration when asked to do unethical things.

 

[Blankie]

Ok, but did you read the parts of the thread where the OP talks about how they don't like working with anyone, don't like working for anyone, want to do telehealth, and otherwise basically want to minimize their contact with other people in a human service field?

I want to go into private practice, that does not, however, negate how SP's are commonly treated in the school districts, both public and private.

Jane77, did you notice how none of the psychologists on here directly answered the question as to whether they would allow themselves to be forced to work in a broom closet?

And no, this wasn't a large closet by any means. It was quite tiny and they had cut out a hole in the door and put a piece of glass in it to function as a non-opening window.

 

[Blankie]

You did nine whole months? In a practicum? Wow, I guess you really are in a position to judge someone who has worked full time in the school district for years. I hope you picked up on my sarcasm.

I don't think people who don't like SP necessarily have personal issues. Some people are a bad fit for the culture, some people realize they made a mistake in thinking that they were going to practice psychology in the schools. And then there is the common sense realization that some people just need to vent. If everyone that complained about their job had "behavioral issues" than I guess we all need professional help.

As an SP instead if working as a psychologist, I find that I am more of a secretary/paperwork guru than anything else. I didnt spend three years in grad school to stare at a screen fot 9-10 hours a day so I can do mind-numbing procedural compliance. There are legitamate gripes with the field and some districts have horrible models for service delivery.

Granted, it was my poor decision to get into the field and it is no one's fault but my own but to be fair, there is a huge disconnect between training and practice. There is a high rate of turnover in the field. And dont get me started on the culture of the school districts. You have to live it to understand how demoralizing it can be to someone with a sense of integrity and a drive for excellence. And might I add you get treated MUCH differently as a full time employee than as a practicum person.

All vitriol and rhetoric aside, the OP brought up an important question. After you have invested years of your life into a career field that no longer has any professional definition and provides no opportunity to determine how you do your job, where can you go from there? There is not a lot if recognition for SP in other fields of study in Psychology. I would have to start from ground zero to get a clinical psych degree.

Jane, I am now looking into taking any additional classes that might be needed outside of my current Masters to be licensed as an LPC. In order to get my post master's experience, I am trying to get hired in a residential treatment center or hospital. I also want to possibly get the LISAC along the way.

 

[deleted760483]

I want to go into private practice, that does not, however, negate how SP's are commonly treated in the school districts, both public and private.

Jane77, did you notice how none of the psychologists on here directly answered the question as to whether they would allow themselves to be forced to work in a broom closet?

And no, this wasn't a large closet by any means. It was quite tiny and they had cut out a hole in the door and put a piece of glass in it to function as a non-opening window.

This was pretty much exactly my office on my predoctoral internship. I don't know if it was technically a closet but it was about half the size of a normal office, had no windows despite having one wall facing an external wall, had a little rectangle of glass cut in the door, and a bunch of aluminum bookshelves and two folding chairs.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I knew someone on internship that had a desk that was cut in half to fit into their shared office. It was a well known hospital, but space was at a premium.

 

[Blankie]

I knew someone on internship that had a desk that was cut in half to fit into their shared office. It was a well known hospital, but space was at a premium.

But, I wasn't on internship. I was a full fledged employee.

 

[PsyDr]

1) get therapy. If everyone else is the problem; they're not the problem.
2) read up on the apa's ethical code, and focus on resolution between ethical concerns and employee demands. This is specifically addressed
3) private practice isn't what you think. You still answer to unreasonable insurance panels, unreason patients, landlords, etc. getting yelled at is a regular part of the profession.
4) telemedicine is a super bad idea. You'll either need a team of attorneys and it guys or you'll again be working for someone. And the tele guys are not nice.
5) consulting is the end all be all of you're not your own boss. Immediately before my first consulting gig, I was informed that I needed a specific type of suit which ran several multiples of my rent. I didn't have it. Guess who gave a crap? No one. That's consulting for you: clients are hiring you for a solution, and they want to contain cost. It doesn't matter if what they are asking is literally impossible. It takes an extreme amount of self control and tact to explain these problems in a high stress environment.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

1) get therapy. If everyone else is the problem; they're not the problem.

I heard a really great quote once that went something like, "If you meet an a-hole in the morning, you've met an a-hole. If you're meeting dinguses all day long, you're the a-hole."

(Edited because "dingus" wasn't in the original quote)

 

[smalltownpsych]

I want to go into private practice, that does not, however, negate how SP's are commonly treated in the school districts, both public and private.

Jane77, did you notice how none of the psychologists on here directly answered the question as to whether they would allow themselves to be forced to work in a broom closet?

And no, this wasn't a large closet by any means. It was quite tiny and they had cut out a hole in the door and put a piece of glass in it to function as a non-opening window.

Why would we work in such conditions? Then again, a school psychologist is not exactly the same as a licensed clinical psychologist. A midlevel in mental health is double stigmatized. We have to fight very hard for our profession and the members on this board do it every day because if the powers that be had their way we'd all be making 40k and working out of a broom closet.

 

[Blankie]

Why would we work in such conditions?

Oh, I know you wouldn't, lol.

Yes, I agree that those in our field as well as any other must continue to advocate for themselves.

 

[Blankie]

1) get therapy. If everyone else is the problem; they're not the problem.
2) read up on the apa's ethical code, and focus on resolution between ethical concerns and employee demands. This is specifically addressed
3) private practice isn't what you think. You still answer to unreasonable insurance panels, unreason patients, landlords, etc. getting yelled at is a regular part of the profession.
4) telemedicine is a super bad idea. You'll either need a team of attorneys and it guys or you'll again be working for someone. And the tele guys are not nice.
5) consulting is the end all be all of you're not your own boss. Immediately before my first consulting gig, I was informed that I needed a specific type of suit which ran several multiples of my rent. I didn't have it. Guess who gave a crap? No one. That's consulting for you: clients are hiring you for a solution, and they want to contain cost. It doesn't matter if what they are asking is literally impossible. It takes an extreme amount of self control and tact to explain these problems in a high stress environment.

Thanks for the tips on Telehealth. I don't really want to do that, and I definitely don't want to do consulting. I just want to see patients in private practice. Thanks again.

 

[EPPP123]

I find the reaction to the advice being provided to be curious. It reminds me of when my children present me with a problem and no matter how hard I try to problem-solve with them, brainstorm, address their stated concerns, etc. they just respond back with "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!"

I am hearing you consistently assert that the level of respect, autonomy, and integrity that you experience working as a school psychologist is limiting and frustrating, as are the poor working conditions. I get that. I foresee it getting worse (DeVos's appointment today does not likely bode well for public school employees or special education services). Good on you for recognizing this situation and taking steps to change it. That is an honest and courageous move.

I am hearing you consistently imply that you do not want to invest time and money in a new/different career direction to end up unhappy again (smart!)

I am hearing you report a series of experiences and personal preferences that suggest that you may not find the happiness/satisfaction that you seek working in another client-based, helping profession. Moreover with recent proposed changes in health insurance, private mental health insurance coverage may be reduced for a portion of the population and another portion of the population may fear using insurance coverage for fear of establishing "pre-existing conditions." This may deplete the client base and increase insurance hassles.

You might want to look at any/all of these factors and use them in your decision-making process.

FWIW, I spent AN EXTRA several years in grad school to complete a school psych PhD. program in addition to the clinical PhD. program that I was already doing. That meant extra time, extra debt, and extra loss of income. I then chose (for various reasons) to parent full time after completing both PhD programs. Ironically ALL THREE of my lovely children have special education needs, so in addition to my clinical and school psych training, externships, practica, internship, etc. I have had the real-world experience of serving on teams in multiple public and private school settings, therapeutic day schools, etc. in addition to working with countless private therapists. After all of this unpaid experience, I too have concluded that working as a school psychologist in a traditional setting would not be a good fit for me. It would be much easier for me to pursue that role at this time as I am certified and could go out and get a job tomorrow. Instead I am studying for the EPPP and searching for a postdoc so that I can complete my licensure and continue down a clinical path (which means more time, money, and loss of income in the process, not to mention that the extra years I spent on the school psych degree are a wash professionally). It's not an easy choice, but I believe that it was the right choice for me in the long-run. Good news for you, you got to do all of this self-discovery while earning a salary. I was not so fortunate.

I am not in any way diminishing your experience, your conclusions, or your desires. I find many of them very relatable. That said, if you are at this crossroads, it seems to behoove you to look carefully at the next path that you choose so that you aren't likely to find yourself singing the same tune on a different stage in 5 or 10 years.

 

[Blankie]

Tha

I find the reaction to the advice being provided to be curious. It reminds me of when my children present me with a problem and no matter how hard I try to problem-solve with them, brainstorm, address their stated concerns, etc. they just respond back with "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!"

I am hearing you consistently assert that the level of respect, autonomy, and integrity that you experience working as a school psychologist is limiting and frustrating, as are the poor working conditions. I get that. I foresee it getting worse (DeVos's appointment today does not likely bode well for public school employees or special education services). Good on you for recognizing this situation and taking steps to change it. That is an honest and courageous move.

I am hearing you consistently imply that you do not want to invest time and money in a new/different career direction to end up unhappy again (smart!)

I am hearing you report a series of experiences and personal preferences that suggest that you may not find the happiness/satisfaction that you seek working in another client-based, helping profession. Moreover with recent proposed changes in health insurance, private mental health insurance coverage may be reduced for a portion of the population and another portion of the population may fear using insurance coverage for fear of establishing "pre-existing conditions." This may deplete the client base and increase insurance hassles.

You might want to look at any/all of these factors and use them in your decision-making process.

FWIW, I spent AN EXTRA several years in grad school to complete a school psych PhD. program in addition to the clinical PhD. program that I was already doing. That meant extra time, extra debt, and extra loss of income. I then chose (for various reasons) to parent full time after completing both PhD programs. Ironically ALL THREE of my lovely children have special education needs, so in addition to my clinical and school psych training, externships, practica, internship, etc. I have had the real-world experience of serving on teams in multiple public and private school settings, therapeutic day schools, etc. in addition to working with countless private therapists. After all of this unpaid experience, I too have concluded that working as a school psychologist in a traditional setting would not be a good fit for me. It would be much easier for me to pursue that role at this time as I am certified and could go out and get a job tomorrow. Instead I am studying for the EPPP and searching for a postdoc so that I can complete my licensure and continue down a clinical path (which means more time, money, and loss of income in the process, not to mention that the extra years I spent on the school psych degree are a wash professionally). It's not an easy choice, but I believe that it was the right choice for me in the long-run. Good news for you, you got to do all of this self-discovery while earning a salary. I was not so fortunate.

I am not in any way diminishing your experience, your conclusions, or your desires. I find many of them very relatable. That said, if you are at this crossroads, it seems to behoove you to look carefully at the next path that you choose so that you aren't likely to find yourself singing the same tune on a different stage in 5 or 10 years.

Thank you so much for your reply. I really appreciate it. It is very helpful. ☺

 

[FadedC]

It's interesting to see how different experiences can be in different areas/districts. I've been assigned to or helped out in probably 10 different schools in my city, and while testing space is a pain to get at times, office space is much nicer and I've never seen psychologists working in anything close to a broom closet. Usually there is a spacious office for the psychologist and his team, which could be 1 very large office, or a suite of smaller offices. You are sharing this with a few other people on your team though, so it's not optimal for testing unless you have the suite of smaller offices setup, which is rarer. Last year I just tested in the cafeteria before lunch, because it was always quiet then. This year I have somewhat better testing space options.

I know money and job security can be very different in other states too. Job security is almost absolute where I am, even if a principal hates you and pushed you out, your still employed with the district and will just be sent somewhere else (or you can apply to other places on your own). Salaries can be really different in different states too, I think the average salary is in the 60-70k range (assuming 9 months of work and not accounting for outside work), but actual salaries can be quite a bit more or less depending on where you are.

 

[Blankie]

I am hearing you report a series of experiences and personal preferences that suggest that you may not find the happiness/satisfaction that you seek working in another client-based, helping profession. Moreover with recent proposed changes in health insurance, private mental health insurance coverage may be reduced for a portion of the population and another portion of the population may fear using insurance coverage for fear of establishing "pre-existing conditions." This may deplete the client base and increase insurance hassles.

Regarding your last sentence, that would affect clinical psychs as well, right?

I really believe I want to do therapy and help people change. I might be starting work in a clinical setting providing therapy to people with various problems including drug and alcohol addiction. I just found out that I don't need clinical licensure or certification in my state to work for such an entity. This should gi v e me a good idea if I want to proceed in the mental health field with my current goals, correct?

I want to thank those who are trying to help me by having a productive conversation with me, instead of those that are on here persecuting me. Thanks!

 

[EPPP123]

Regarding your last sentence, that would affect clinical psychs as well, right?

I really believe I want to do therapy and help people change. I might be starting work in a clinical setting providing therapy to people with various problems including drug and alcohol addiction. I just found out that I don't need clinical licensure or certification in my state to work for such an entity. This should gi v e me a good idea if I want to proceed in the mental health field with my current goals, correct?

I want to thank those who are trying to help me by having a productive conversation with me, instead of those that are on here persecuting me. Thanks!

Correct. I would imagine that insurance changes would impact clinical psychologists as well. I am already starting to hear "lay" people discuss whether they will submit mental health services to insurance or just pay out-of-pocket because of fears related to pre-existing conditions and ability to get affordable insurance (or any insurance) now that tides look to be shifting. I am not suggesting that these fears will be realized, but they are shaping public perception and I imagine will have some impact or perhaps a very significant impact.

As for working with addictions counseling, it sounds like a worthwhile way to explore if you feel happier/more efficacious in a related therapeutic field. I didn't realize that such a dramatic shift (from school psych to addictions) could be made without additional training or certification, but I assume that you will have supervision as you explore the new field. It sounds like it will be a good way to get your feet wet and better assess goodness-of-fit before investing more time/money in training.

Best of luck to you.

 

[smalltownpsych]

As for working with addictions counseling, it sounds like a worthwhile way to explore if you feel happier/more efficacious in a related therapeutic field. I didn't realize that such a dramatic shift (from school psych to addictions) could be made without additional training or certification, but I assume that you will have supervision as you explore the new field. It sounds like it will be a good way to get your feet wet and better assess goodness-of-fit before investing more time/money in training.

Best of luck to you.

...and my wife say that I am a Pollyanna. The longer I work in the mental health field the more cynical I become. My thought was not nearly as generous as yours. I get tired of underqualified and undertrained people passing themselves off as counselors or therapists as though they know something more than they do. Maybe the OP will learn enough about MI to say that's what they do, but will have no idea how to implement it like many of the addiction counselors I have already met. When I ask them where the patient is at as far as the stages of change and I get a blank look, that's a bad sign.

 

[PikminOC]

Life coach

 

[EPPP123]

...and my wife say that I am a Pollyanna. The longer I work in the mental health field the more cynical I become. My thought was not nearly as generous as yours. I get tired of underqualified and undertrained people passing themselves off as counselors or therapists as though they know something more than they do. Maybe the OP will learn enough about MI to say that's what they do, but will have no idea how to implement it like many of the addiction counselors I have already met. When I ask them where the patient is at as far as the stages of change and I get a blank look, that's a bad sign.

Well, I've been called worse.

TBH the longer I am a consumer in the mental health field, the more cynical I become. There is a VAST range of talents and competencies all working under the same titles (be it therapist, social worker, psychologist, etc.) and I have experienced far too many professionals willing to let me drag my kids in week after week, pay endless amounts of $ and see little to no progress be made after many months of consistent work. In only one instance has a professional ever said to me that they don't think that they are serving my child and perhaps I should look elsewhere for help. In all other cases, I have had to ask the questions about progress toward goals, treatment plans, therapeutic approaches, etc. only to get a blank look and a shrug in agreement that there is no real work being done (which makes my blood boil a bit from both a consumer and professional standpoint). That is why I referenced ethics in my first post to the OP; irrespective of the extent of the professional ethics guidelines, I do not believe that it is ethical to work as a mental health professional if you lack the talent, skills, and motivation to do your job well and with the utmost respect for the client and your role in their process.

All that said, I still will function under the general assumption that professionals are operating in adherence to the ethics code and all that it says about professional competencies. That's just the way I'm wired. I do however realize that this is not always the case.

 

[Blankie]

...and my wife say that I am a Pollyanna. The longer I work in the mental health field the more cynical I become. My thought was not nearly as generous as yours. I get tired of underqualified and undertrained people passing themselves off as counselors or therapists as though they know something more than they do. Maybe the OP will learn enough about MI to say that's what they do, but will have no idea how to implement it like many of the addiction counselors I have already met. When I ask them where the patient is at as far as the stages of change and I get a blank look, that's a bad sign.

I was actually quite surprised myself.

 

[Blankie]

...and my wife say that I am a Pollyanna. The longer I work in the mental health field the more cynical I become. My thought was not nearly as generous as yours. I get tired of underqualified and undertrained people passing themselves off as counselors or therapists as though they know something more than they do. Maybe the OP will learn enough about MI to say that's what they do, but will have no idea how to implement it like many of the addiction counselors I have already met. When I ask them where the patient is at as far as the stages of change and I get a blank look, that's a bad sign.

It appears that in some states this is allowed as long as you are working under a certain entity. It was explained to me that you would need the certification or licensure if/when you go into private practice.

 

[Lunatik]

So it always boils down to fight or flight of some sorts. You either stay and tough it out regardless of the lemons you're dealt, or you take a leap of faith and try to move on to something else, somewhere else. In either case, apply https://www.google.com/search?q=coping+skills&oq=coping+skills

 

[Blankie]

So it always boils down to fight or flight of some sorts. You either stay and tough it out regardless of the lemons you're dealt, or you take a leap of faith and try to move on to something else, somewhere else. In either case, apply https://www.google.com/search?q=coping+skills&oq=coping+skills

Yeah, I'm moving on. No more trying to make a career work in which I hate the setting and the working conditions. I'm out. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah, I'm moving on. No more trying to make a career work in which I hate the setting and the working conditions. I'm out. Thanks for the reply.

Glad you've made a choice. Best of luck and keep in touch.

 

[School_Psych44]

How do I get out? I'm late 40's. I have a Masters. I went into this career fairly late in life and it just never took off for me. The state that I lived in most of my life was so saturated with school psychs that I relocated to another state and that hasn't worked out either. The problem is that I just don't like what i'm doing. On each position that I've held, once the initial glow of garnering a new job with regular decent pay has worn off, I find myself dreading getting up and going to work. I hate the school setting. I hate sitting through meetings, I hate working with teams. I hate giving oral reports. Most of all, I hate not being my own boss and being susceptible to being fired just because a principal or director doesn't like me or because I have strong opinions. It's often not about the kids, but rather about what's best for the crummy school district. Also, the districts cram the school psychs onto any crummy little space for an office that they can find most times. My last job, I was in a closet and they had cut a window out for the door. I want out. The money is good now, but what good will that do me since I cannot keep a job due to "personality differences" or all the other BS in the schools?? A colleague told me to see what additional classes I would need to take to be licensed as a professional counselor or a marriage and family therapist without actually having to get another degree. I'm going to see if I can do that at this point. I actually knew i would like to be a therapist and work with adults instead of kids when I was going through my fieldwork. I should have dropped school psychology like a rock many years ago. Any thoughts or advice?

How’s it going now? My experience has been like yours, except we are also expected to counsel and consult in our schools. I currently work in a tiny (former closet) room with no heat and a terrible urine smell from a plumbing backup that flooded the room. I have to transport all my materials too. But that’s not my problem with the position, not really. It’s not the paperwork I have to do from home almost every night and weekend. You might assume my position including therapy and consultation would be a boon to the work, but it’s not. It makes it even harder to get paperwork and dreaded meetings done.

Other professionals and OP: I have a Ph.D. in School Psychology. This is to clarify I did have an internship with counseling as well. I’ve worked hard with admin to build trust, and now they turn difficult kids over to me, typically multiple times daily. I was assaulted last week by a student who is stronger and bigger than I. My injuries were dismissed as unimportant to the sped director, who is my supervisor. I have many bruises, and a large superficial blood clot on my leg after being attacked. The director also basically blamed the entire situation on ME, despite that the teacher and admin dumped the upset student in my room, I didn’t request him! I am forced to continue to work alone with the student. It’s not the first time a violent student has hit me or kicked me, but it is the first time I’ve not been able to intervene before injury. I’m having panic attacks, constant diarrhea, terrified of this student. District will not “allow” his movement off my campus and will not assign anyone to assist me with him. He sits in my room as his “in school” suspension after injuring myself and a teacher! I think the entire situation has crossed ethical boundaries multiple times. The student’s father has threatened my life and the teacher’s life in the past and he comes to campus, stalking me when he’s having “an episode”. I know I’m not able to work effectively with this one student or his family, but it’s being suggested I am not capable now. Not capable? In any other setting, we would understand the services are not appropriate or the needs are not being met, not the fault of a staff member. And that this parent needs to be removed from campus after school hours. I began to think I should have reported this to the police, though I know the director’s reaction was to dissuade me from that, and I think I’d likely have an extremely poor review this year if I do. I think her telling me it’s my fault is part of her attempt to keep me from saying anything. She will probably try to say I need an improvement plan if I take it any further. They really don’t want to pay for an out placement, which this student does need. We were told the district was out of money in November.

This is not a rant, but support for the OP. Schools are a very rough place in many ways. They lack resources and offer little support but high scrutiny to their employees. I’m leaving the schools as well. It stinks that I’d need to get a doctor to say there is something wrong with me (anxiety) to be able to leave this job right now because of contract. The reality is that we are not permitted to draw healthy boundaries or control even one iota of where we work, how we work, and how we organize our days or space for 11 months (my state has us year round). I don’t have a lunch break and there are days I don’t get to the bathroom for 8+ hours. Being absent for any reason is something you’ll hear about later...We are not protected by the teachers union in my state either. Yes, I can move to another position in another districts. But reality is that the directors are a small group, even in a large state and they talk. If one decides you’re screwing up something for her/him, you can find yourself quickly blacklisted with them all. I have seen it happen. I’m afraid I’ve always let the opinion of psychologists (which were already ground into me) guide me, always asking myself what is wrong with ME that it’s so difficult to build really great relationships in my school. I’ve decided 12 years in and 3 districts later that it’s the culture of public schools. It’s not something inside the OP that is the main issue! If you have never worked in the public schools, you can’t completely understand. Most of us have no idea what we’re actually getting into at the time.

 

[smalltownpsych]

How’s it going now? My experience has been like yours, except we are also expected to counsel and consult in our schools. I currently work in a tiny (former closet) room with no heat and a terrible urine smell from a plumbing backup that flooded the room. I have to transport all my materials too. But that’s not my problem with the position, not really. It’s not the paperwork I have to do from home almost every night and weekend. You might assume my position including therapy and consultation would be a boon to the work, but it’s not. It makes it even harder to get paperwork and dreaded meetings done.

Other professionals and OP: I have a Ph.D. in School Psychology. This is to clarify I did have an internship with counseling as well. I’ve worked hard with admin to build trust, and now they turn difficult kids over to me, typically multiple times daily. I was assaulted last week by a student who is stronger and bigger than I. My injuries were dismissed as unimportant to the sped director, who is my supervisor. I have many bruises, and a large superficial blood clot on my leg after being attacked. The director also basically blamed the entire situation on ME, despite that the teacher and admin dumped the upset student in my room, I didn’t request him! I am forced to continue to work alone with the student. It’s not the first time a violent student has hit me or kicked me, but it is the first time I’ve not been able to intervene before injury. I’m having panic attacks, constant diarrhea, terrified of this student. District will not “allow” his movement off my campus and will not assign anyone to assist me with him. He sits in my room as his “in school” suspension after injuring myself and a teacher! I think the entire situation has crossed ethical boundaries multiple times. The student’s father has threatened my life and the teacher’s life in the past and he comes to campus, stalking me when he’s having “an episode”. I know I’m not able to work effectively with this one student or his family, but it’s being suggested I am not capable now. Not capable? In any other setting, we would understand the services are not appropriate or the needs are not being met, not the fault of a staff member. And that this parent needs to be removed from campus after school hours. I began to think I should have reported this to the police, though I know the director’s reaction was to dissuade me from that, and I think I’d likely have an extremely poor review this year if I do. I think her telling me it’s my fault is part of her attempt to keep me from saying anything. She will probably try to say I need an improvement plan if I take it any further. They really don’t want to pay for an out placement, which this student does need. We were told the district was out of money in November.

This is not a rant, but support for the OP. Schools are a very rough place in many ways. They lack resources and offer little support but high scrutiny to their employees. I’m leaving the schools as well. It stinks that I’d need to get a doctor to say there is something wrong with me (anxiety) to be able to leave this job right now because of contract. The reality is that we are not permitted to draw healthy boundaries or control even one iota of where we work, how we work, and how we organize our days or space for 11 months (my state has us year round). I don’t have a lunch break and there are days I don’t get to the bathroom for 8+ hours. Being absent for any reason is something you’ll hear about later...We are not protected by the teachers union in my state either. Yes, I can move to another position in another districts. But reality is that the directors are a small group, even in a large state and they talk. If one decides you’re screwing up something for her/him, you can find yourself quickly blacklisted with them all. I have seen it happen. I’m afraid I’ve always let the opinion of psychologists (which were already ground into me) guide me, always asking myself what is wrong with ME that it’s so difficult to build really great relationships in my school. I’ve decided 12 years in and 3 districts later that it’s the culture of public schools. It’s not something inside the OP that is the main issue! If you have never worked in the public schools, you can’t completely understand. Most of us have no idea what we’re actually getting into at the time.

This is an extreme example of what happens when you are limited to working in one setting where both the education and athletics is more important than what you do.