I hate to ask this, but it is a difficult decision to make (Harvard or Hopkins?)

[Boomboom]

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Hello everyone. I just recently found this Board about a week ago and have been reading it daily. It is really amazing how many helpful seem to post here everyday. I thank everyone for the help I've received just in reading (for example, knowing when to check the mail!), and hope I can contribute more in the next few weeks.

I hate for this to be my first post (because it is a little rediculous 😕 ), but I wanted to hear everyone's opinions. The medical school application process has treated me very well . I feel incredibly fortunate to have been given the opportunities I have. I know I have worked hard and deserve some of them, but also know that many others have worked just as hard and haven't had as much success for whatever random reasons these medical schools have. In any case, for everyone still waiting to hear, I wish you the best of luck and encourage you to keep your heads up! And congratulations to everyone who has heard great news already.

So, now for my question. I have been accepted to two wonderful schools: Harvard and Hopkins. 🙂 I'm going to wait for financial aid offers to come in, as they could play a big role in my decision making. However, I wanted to know what everyone thought about these schools? I've been going over the pros and cons in my head ever since I opened the letter. It's a difficult decision, but one I feel incredibly lucky to have. I wish everyone on this Board, who all seem to care so much about medicine, could be in my shoes.

So what does everyone think?!? Hopkins has arguably the best hospital, where you receive training. But Harvard has an incredible school. I know the differences in teaching style are huge, but I really think I could thrive under either situation. Location is a little important and Boston seems to be a great city, though more expensive. Ok, I'll stop now, but would really appreciate everyone's opinions. I tried as carefully as I could to portray that this is a genuine question and not just me posting for a selfish self-esteem reason, but if you weren't able to see that, I'm sorry. Thanks in advance for all of your feedback! Please let me know if I can help anyone with any advice about applying!

 

[CUarzt]

seems I am the first to congratulate you boomboom; indeed you have quite a position.

if i were you, i would attend hopkins; i have a soft spot for the school (having grown up near it and knowing a few alumni). however, beside the "soft spot," id much rather have the hopkins name under my belt than the harvard name. that sounds a bit pretentious or superficial, but it is also life.

jh does have what i would think is the better hospital for clinical training. jh curriculum i think would be ideal for someone who seems as well-prepared to jump into medical school as yourself.

both schools will open many doors and opportunities. my only question is: do you feel you've spent sufficient time at each school to make a decision?

 

[BushBaby]

Don't waste your time with either schools....I think you should decline both acceptances, work as an EMT for two years and then apply to Ross. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

 

[NineSixteen]

Hi Boomboom, welcome to SDN and congrats on your acceptances! Before yesterday, when I got a thin little letter from Harvard, I was contemplating the differences between these two schools and wondering how in the world to make a decision if I were to be given the opportunity to do so. Luckily, the decision was made for me, and I think it's the one I would have made anyway, but I suppose I'll never know (could just be sour grapes 🙂 )

Anyway, I think that the schools are, for all intents and purposes, equal in stature and prestige in the academic world. Graduate from either school and you have put yourself in a great position for residency matches, etc. The curricula (is that right? Plural for curriculum?)differ a lot, but as you said you'd do well in either place. Someone once posted that the students at Harvard do well IN SPITE of the curriculum, not because of it. Students I talked to at Harvard seemed to echo that sentiment...

Hopkins students loved the clinical years, Harvard students didn't really. That fact made a big impression on me. Harvard is in Boston, though, as you said, and Boston is a MUCH more happening place than Baltimore. I would absolutely love to be in Boston, and where you will be happiest as a person, not just as a medical student, for the next four years should also play an important role in your decision.

Sorry, that's probably not helpful at all, I think I just repeated everything you've already thought about. If all else fails, flip a coin 😀 , you can't lose either way!

 

[ValleyGal]

If you want to live in a cool city, go to Harvard. Boston is super cool, and you will have lots of fun in your time outside of the classroom. Baltimore is fine, but it is more of a make your own fun kind of town.

 

[Boomboom]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone! :wink: Any more?

CUarzt, I have only visited Harvard during the interview and hope to take another trip up there in the next month. It doesn't look like they have a second visit weekend. I am going to the Hopkins revisit weekend and have already spent some time there as well.

Thanks again! I agree with the all the feedback about Baltimore vs. Boston!

 

[WantCali]

This is a joke right? Have you seen east Baltimore? The quality of life at JHU is the pits. It really sucks. At least at Harvard you can walk to class without dodging bullets.

 

[oldman]

i talked about this in a previous post about jh. i've been mugged. most of my friends have been mugged. my PI got mugged. it's crime city. and this was at the undergrad campus where it's safer. imagine the hospital. it's in a really bad part of town.

 

[oldman]

sorry i sounded bitter. hopkins undergrads tend to be bitter. 🙂

 

[MD06]

Boomboom,
I too am new to this site and I thought that I'd join your thread since we find ourselves in the same position- the large envelope waiting in my mailbox yesterday has thrown my brain into Hopkins vs. Harvard overdrive. And depending on who you ask, you're going to find that people are split 50-50 (if you get them to ignore the shadier aspects of East Baltimore. But we won't go in to that...).
My advice? Visit both places again and just go with your gut instincts. You can't go wrong either way! I find myself leaning more towards Harvard right now, but that could change. See you this weekend. :wink:

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Names:

Hopkins might impress your colleagues more.

Harvard might impress your patients more.

Which is more important to you?

Yeah, and there's that pesky "quality of education" factor. I've never seen the schools, so I wouldn't know. I assume they are both good.

I'd choose Hopkins, even though I hate Hopkins (the only school to reject my undergrad app and my med school app).

Cool choice!

 

[Cdc28p]

Are you thinking of anything else besides medicine, e.g. public policy, economics, law? If not, you can't go wrong with either place. And I guess it boils down to subjective feelings.

I'm considering the two as well but will go to HMS because (a) I like the Harvard curriculum (New Pathway) better; (b) I'm interested in political economy or law and Harvard has the wonderful Kennedy School of Government and a top-notch law school; (c) Boston leaves Baltimore in the dust in term of quality of life; (d) although both schools have equal reputation in the medical world in the US, Harvard is more well-known internationally, and I want to work in the international arena in the future; (e) I have tons of friends at HMS; and (f) if I decide to rock the cradle, I would rather date a Harvard undergrad than a Hopkins undergrad. 🙂

 

[coop]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by oldman:
•sorry i sounded bitter. hopkins undergrads tend to be bitter. 🙂 •••••ok I know I've said some mean things about Hopkins Med in the past but push that aside, I wanna stand up for bawlmer. I have really really loved my time here in charm city. Sure, I know some people who've gotten mugged, and there are definately some shady areas, but you've got a great bar/restraunt scene in fells, powerplant live area, mt vernon!, white marsh. It's not so congested like an NYC. I like that I can own a car and drive all over the city, so the lack of good public transportation isn't a big negative. Its a big sports town. People here have a lot of spirit, especially if the O's are good, but the ravens did the trick a year ago, and the TERPS have the city flying high this week. There are areas that are nice and livable and only a 15-20 minute drive from hopkins med. You aren't gonna live walking distance to the school, that's a fact, no doubt, but other areas are decent.

Plus, 45min to DC, 1.5hr to Philly, 2.5 to VA Beach, 3.5 hrs NYC or Pittsburgh. If you are ok with a town with a little more space and a driving town rather than a subway driven town, then baltimore has a lot of plusses. Yes I was at the med school once when a shooting happened just down on monument st, but there's a lot of security on campus, and I can't say I haven't felt safe when I'm down there, i think people blow things out of proportion a little too much. good luck with your decision.

 

[HippocratesX]

hahaha, don't fu&lt;king kid yourself...I too went to Hopkins undergrad and some of my close friends are M2 and M1. give me a break...you'll be working you butt off in the most depressing city in the world. Baltimore is NOT the place you want to spend 4 years. believe me.

All in all, it really does NOT matter where you go to medical school, esp when your choices are hopkins and harvard. The important thing is where you do your residency. So if you decide upon that, then its most likely easier to get in to a residency from within the medical school. I know this chick from undergrad that just matched at Hopkins for neurosurgery, and I can assure you that, although she's certainly very very very smart, she would not have gotten that position coming out of any other school...even Hahvud.

 

[otter]

Hi Boomboom - I don't know how much credibility on the issue of Harvard vs. Johns Hopkins, since I have ZERO acceptance at this point. But here's my input.

Harvard vs. Hopkins is pretty much a toss-up. So decide based on whether you put more value in quality of life or the quality of clinical training. I've heard from number of people that the medical campus and the surrounding area are just a bad area, in terms of lack of safety and social life options. Don't kid yourself; Harvard Med is also not in the best of areas. But the thing about Longwood is that it's in the proximity of really cool places (though expensive) like Brookline Village and Kenmore. I can't comment too much on clinical training at Hopkins, although I've heard some disparaging remarks about Harvard's clinical. The ideal case would be to do the first two years at Harvard, then transfer to Hopkins. 😀

You can decide by talking to many students and asking them and yourself a lot of critical questions when you go visit both schools for your revisits. And if you still can't decide, then doggone it just flip a coin - you can't go wrong with either! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

 

[Cdc28p]

It's not a decision between qualify of life vs. quality of medical education. It's a decision between good education + good life vs. good education + bad life.

I've worked with HMS students for a few years and have rarely heard anything negative about their clinical training.

 

[Boomboom]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone! The feedback has been very helpful.

The one part of my story, which I did not mention in my first post because I didn't want it to color the responses, is that I actually am a Hopkins undergrad. I've enjoyed my experiences here (to the best extent possible 🙄 ), and am definitely familiar with Baltimore and the area around the hospital. I tend to agree with Coop, though, that Baltimore really isn't that bad. I know it does not compare to Boston, but it is not terrible either. You can be safe as long as you are conscious of where you are, and can definitely find (though it takes some looking 😛 ) fun as well!

Cdc28p, I agree that if one is planning on other degrees, Harvard is the place to be! I definitely need to make up my mind about that. I do have a strong interest in public policy, and the Harvard MPP program is very intriguing. Do you have a feeling for how easy/hard it is to get into law or government graduate programs as a med student?

To respond to HippocratesX, I agree that it is easier to get into a competitive residency at Hopkins by going to the medical school. From my experiences, Hopkins hospital, by nature, tends to be a very exclusive group and may favor you coming from in house. This is definitely one of the factors weighing in my mind right now. What does everyone else think of this?

This thought also relates to the clinical training at both schools. I think it would be fantastic to receive nearly all of my clinical training at Hopkins hospital. For Harvard, does anyone have a feel for what percentage of rotations are done in which hospital? (e.g., most in Mass General or most in Beth Deaconess). And how would the quality vary from place to place. I know this is a good question for a revisit and current students, but figured I would throw it out to everyone anyway. I'm just thinking out loud.

Thanks again for all of the feedback.

 

[AJM]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Boomboom:
•This thought also relates to the clinical training at both schools. I think it would be fantastic to receive nearly all of my clinical training at Hopkins hospital. For Harvard, does anyone have a feel for what percentage of rotations are done in which hospital? (e.g., most in Mass General or most in Beth Deaconess). And how would the quality vary from place to place. I know this is a good question for a revisit and current students, but figured I would throw it out to everyone anyway. I'm just thinking out loud.
•••••BoomBoom,
Congrats on such a tough decision! I'm not a Harvard med student, but I learned a few things about the HMS clinical experience when I interviewed at the Brigham & Woman's and Beth Israel residency programs. From what I understand, Harvard students split their time pretty equally among the 3 main sites (MGH, Brigham, BID), as well as Boston Children's for peds. They get to put their preferences in for each rotation, but they are not always guaranteed to get their first choice site. The quality varies depending on the specialty rotation. For example, Beth Israel is actually considered to be the best place to rotate through for the medicine rotation because they have the best teaching for med students, but students don't like to go there for their surgery rotation. Personally, I think both Brigham and BID had excellent rounds and teaching conferences on the days that I was there.

The one thing that really surprised me was that I never heard a med student present their own cases during rounds on the days I was there -- the residents presented everything to the attending, while the students just sat and listened!! Now I'm used to a system that is common to most med schools -- that the student always presents their own cases and takes responsibility for them. Otherwise they'll never learn case presentation skills, and their interaction with the attending will be very limited. So I was confused why the HMS's weren't presenting. It may just have been an anomaly on my interview visits, though -- maybe the programs decided that on the resident interview days, they would only have the residents present so they could put a good show on for us interviewee/observers!

Anyway, you might want to ask actual HMS's about their clinical experience and how much actual responsibility they have in patient care.

Good luck on your decision!