I know this is going to sound BAD, but...

[Vroom]

I know this is going to sound bad but I couldn't help writing this post after reading post after post for the last 6 months of people writing in, "Do you think I can make it," and they have 2.6-2.7 GPAs or LESS. I mean 2.6?? Unless the person has a serious learning disability, was this person partying uncontrollably during the undergrad years or what? I think if anyone at the very least studied a couple of hours per week for classes, they could pull off in the absolute worst case scenario a 3.0 GPA. I mean how hard is it really to get an average of a "B" in coursework? Yes, I admit getting an "A" can be a little tricky, but graduating with a 2.6--that is a bunch of "C"s and "B"s. It basically takes a heartbeat and some sort of a breathing pattern to get that. I am just wondering what you guys were doing? It sounds to me like it was one big party in college. Maybe you were juggling a full-time job while going to school--that would possibly help to explain things. But even then, many of my friends have great GPAs and juggled a full time job, baby-sat, took care of sick in-laws, etc. So, I'm not too sure the "I was working a full-time job while going to school" excuse would work too well. I guess what I am getting at is that if I were to go to dental school with a person with a 2.6, I am not too sure if I could take him/her too seriously as a professional student UNLESS there were underlying circumstances to his/her deficient undergrad GPA. If there were NO underlying circumstances, this 2.6 person to me just sounds like an unmotivated, very unabmitious, and almost lazy person. Now, to carry on with this argument, IS it a fair statement to say then that this person will go on through life as a graduating dentist to be not-too-stellar in his/her dental work etiquette? I mean will a half-@ss job be done on necessary dental procedures? Furthermore, when the sun is out and it is a great day for the beach, is he/she going to neglect patients and quickly finish up a dental procedure half-heartedly so that he/she can go roast in the sun while drinking a Long Island Iced Tea? I mean, I don't know...but that is what I am sort of picturing.

I am in no way any sort of representation of the dental admission process, but I feel that it takes a certain level of maturity, responsibility, motivation, and ambition to be a professional student. If someone hasn't really mastered the basic skills of opening an academic book to read it prior to 1 hour before a midterm and has a 2.6 or LESS GPA as a result with NO underlying circumstance, then how can that person really be a serious professional student?? To me, that just shows a serious lack of commitment, maturity, ambition, and focus. These are habits that could very well be carried through as a practicing dentist once the person finishes dental school and who suffers as a result??--the PATIENT! Maybe the person will be a stellar dentist--who knows, but is it worth the risk of the patient and on a broader sense of society to take a chance with someone who can't even prove he/she can survive undergraduate education? I for one wouldn't want a dentist who "cruised" through life as an undergrad with a 2.6 GPA working on me.

Lastly, do medical schools admit people with GPAs that are deficient in the mid 2.0 category--I don't think so. Why do dental schools make exceptions? We as dentists have in my opinion the same level of responsibility as medical doctors in a lot of ways. We are both health professionals taking care of health problems. And if you want to bring up the argument that cardiac surgeons have more responsibility than dentists, than what about dermatologists or pathologist? Dermatologists "zap" moles off faces, fix skin blotches, and perform laser resurfacing procedures, etc. Pathologists deal with dead people—how much of a liability is that?? In comparison, dentists deal with the oral/maxillofacial region and cut, extract, and fix painful, sometimes excruciating problems. My question then is that why does the dental admission process of some dental schools have a standard that often times allows students to be admitted with less-than-stellar GPAs? (I know this is not true of all dental schools).

I feel that dental school should be for ANYONE who really wants to be a dentist, but FIRST I feel that the student should prove that he/she really wants to be a dentist by earning a decent GPA—this will at the very least show a level of enthusiasm, drive, ambition, and maturity to become a professional student and later in life, a justifiable and competent dentist.

Just my thoughts,
Vroom

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[horns2001]

Vroom-
I myself feel that your post is a bunch of BS. I mean are you pissed of at something? Maybe you didn't get into your choice of dental school and are taking it out on others-i don't know what's your problem. Think for a second what your saying. Your saying anyone with a heartbeat can get a 2.6-2.7 GPA? Thats bologna. What undergrad institution do you go to? I transferred to UCLA as a Junior with 3.4 GPA from a local college. I entered as a Molecular Cell and Developmental Biology major. The average high school GPA at UCLA in that major is 4.2. And since every class is based on a curve, imagine how fierce the competition is for an "A" or even a "B" in these upper division hard core bio courses. Believe me you have to study long and hard just to get a "B-"...A "B-" is the average grade which gets you a 2.7 GPA. I have a 2.75 at UCLA, and combined w/my GPA from the other college I have around a 2.9-3.0. I studied so much harder and so much more at UCLA that I did at my other college, yet my grades were still way lower. I learned alot more at UCLA too. You just cant say "anyone with a heartbeat can get a GPA of 2.6-2.7", because it's not that easy-In some places it's really hard. Get your head out of your ass and be more open minded. There are alot of capable people with less than 3.0 GPAs out there that would make wonderful dentists. Thats why they have DAT's, volunteering, research, etc. on the application Maybe your a genius or something and can get great grades, but don't speak for everyone-Out

 

[doc227]

Vroom, this is coming from a student who has, even if I haven't put my all into it, made good (or as you say it "stellar") grades. I have come to the realization that there are people who just excel better in school more than others. NO, these students do not have to be party-people. NO, this does not mean that they are not motivated. NO, this does not mean that they are NOT SMART. NO, this does not mean that they cannot be good or great professionals.

I put it like this; it's like being a good athlete. Some people were born with the talent. Some people work hard to become real good athletes and excel in a sport, while some work hard, but will never be good.
I know people who have worked hard and have not recieved the "stellar" grades others have. This does not mean that they are not smart, serious, or motivated. For some people will never be on the dean's list, but we who have obtained good gpas should not say that they cannot be good professionals.

 

[karmakola]

I just want to point out one fact: no study by any medical or dental school has shown a positive correlation between a high college GPA and excellence at his/her professional school -- or even being a good doctor or dentist.
So why all the fuss?
Amen.
ps: perhaps there is a negative correlation between high GPA and being humble?

 

[Thebeyonder]

Hi,
I have to agree with vroom. I have a 2.6 science gpa. I was a pharmacy major when I first started college. I was not into studying nightly and paid for it dearly. My science gpa was about a 1.7. After being dismissed for academic deficiency I began to wise up. I studied extensively, sacrificing serious time with my wife and son. The serious time was spent studying, I could have been doing other "fun" things instead, like I used to, but choose to study instead. I ended up graduating with a 4.0. I have also taken some postbacc classes that averaged a 3.8. I had a 1.7 science cum that has been raised to a 2.6(my past ~40 science credits average ~3.9). There is no way that I could ever raise a 1.7 to a respectable 3.0 no matter how many A's I got...I guess I could stay in undergrad for 2 more years but that would be obsessive. Anyway, vroom is right, it takes patience and fortitude to achieve. For the people that claim that some people get A's without studying is bull. People that study a lot, making tapes to listen to in their cars or when they run, studying many hours a day, will get great grades. Those people without the dedication will not get great grades.
I feel that I should be admitted to dental school due to my most recent performance academically. I also have scored well on the DAT (22,19). My past performance has taught me well, I feel I am more prepared than most other students because I know first hand the pain associated with failing, and I also know the joy associated with excelling.
Tim.

 

[puffy1]

just FYI, there are med schools (US allopathic) that do take mid 2's (Tulane a posted a range of accepted GPAs of 2.5 to 4.0 in their 2004 class). Ofcourse, that 2.5 probably had a 35 MCAT, but this is strictly a GPA subject according to Vroom.
If you want verification, here is the website:
http://www.omi.tulane.edu/departments/admissions/profile.htm

 

[Roxy76]

Hey Vroom where did you attend as an undergrad, maybe I need to transfer there!! I'll have to agree with horns2001 on this subject.

 

[Stayce]

I would have to agree with several of the above posts. I currently have a 2.98 average due to working 50 hours per week to pay for college and bills. Studying is first priority, after paying tuition for a college that allows me the priviledge to study. Not everyone that has a low end GPA is a slacker or ***** or anything else along those lines. Maybe some people have the time and ability to constantly get A's and an occasional B, but I can attest to the difficulty of fitting time for studying Physics at 2 a.m after working 12 hours. My B- or C+ does not reflect my ability to care for a patient, but rather my determination to make it. I am sorry if you feel differently, and congratulate you if you have had no difficulty in maintaining a Godly GPA, but for the rest of us, respect our efforts and the situations that have brought us all to the wonderful conclusion that we want to dedicate our lives to helping others. A GPA is a number, and my dream didnt come with one. I am sorry if yours did.
Good luck to all of you.

 

[archtctura]

I would have to say that a statement like VROOMS was probably underthought. Since VROOM probably wasn't taking in the account that all students don't take communication as an undergrad degree, it is safe to say that the degree that one takes and the school that one attends greatly effects the outcome of the GPA one might acquire. I am an Anthropology Major and if someone who is an Anthro. major is receiving less than 3.0 GPA then you can safely safe that the person is having a tough time, not enough time or not working as hard as he/she should be. Now a Molecular Biology major is a different story because of grade curves and shifts, content of coursework, and variables like jobs, kids, and stress can play a nasty tole on one's school work. VROOM should not make an uneducated guess on someone else's life based on an internet post. We are all students and since students have been admitted to Med and Dent school with sub 3's, we can presume that the factor of GPA is 1/4 of the process and respect the decisions one makes. Discourgement leads to the ability to not try new things. In highschool I graduated with or under 2.0 GPA. Could you make a decision on what I wanted to be in life? No, you can't make that decision because we are all different and now I have obtained high 3's and getting closer to my goal.
Don't assume anything you might be picked over for someone who has better social skills!