I need advice. Please Help me!

[MDinJesusName]

Taking my Mcat this August.

sGPA and cGPA : 2.75... weird right?
Masters of Science in Biomedical Science GPA: 3.5

My science GPA is low because i was not focused in college and way too immature. I decided to do a masters to help my GPA out, or at least show admission offices that Ive learned my lesson. I have a ton of shadowing experience, some research and volunteer hours. What are my chances of getting into medical school(MD/DO). Also, what schools will focus mostly on my masters GPA and my upward trend?

*asking for: list of schools that I should consider*

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[DO2015CA]

Take the mcat first then ask the question again. No one can effectively give you a list until you have the mcat score

 

[You're My Boy Blue]

@DO2015CA is right, but giving a general range might help. Have you started taking practice tests? What are you expecting to get ?

 

[Grace184]

Also, was it a true SMP or just a Masters? I only ask because although you did well in it, these programs are a dime a dozen- you need to come to the table with very strong ECs not just the masters grade to prove you can do well, esp with a gpa of 2.75. Did you retake/take all pre reqs with at least a B? It may not be enough to claim immaturity if you haven't retaken the work you did poorly in, if they were pre reqs.

 

[Grace184]

I came back to this post bc I just read another about someone who lost A lot of money in the cycle by applying to a bunch of schools and finding out her chances too late.
MD- no chance- your uGpas are too low
DO- Most programs want a uGpa of at least 2.8, but 3.0 and above is competitive.

Again, I don't truly know how much water the MBMS (non SMP) holds with a gpa like that. I would assume not a lot (?) but wanted to bring in @Goro

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Come back when you have taken the MCAT.

 

[Goro]

A research thesis type MS won't help very much due to grade inflation. A SMP mimicking med school coursework will. OP will need to ace MCAT to erase all doubts about academic performance.

Also, was it a true SMP or just a Masters? I only ask because although you did well in it, these programs are a dime a dozen- you need to come to the table with very strong ECs not just the masters grade to prove you can do well, esp with a gpa of 2.75. Did you retake/take all pre reqs with at least a B? It may not be enough to claim immaturity if you haven't retaken the work you did poorly in, if they were pre reqs.

 

[Affiche]

@Goro or @gyngyn I'm confused. With an SMP or any graduate work, won't a low uGPA still get an applicant screened out??

 

[gyngyn]

@Goro or @gyngyn I'm confused. With an SMP or any graduate work, won't a low uGPA still get an applicant screened out??

If there is an electronic screen for Ugpa, yes.
The successful SMP grad will apply to schools that have historically accepted them, however.
They are also in a better postion if they attend an SMP with a strong linkage to an affiliated medical school.

 

[Goro]

At places with auto-screens probably. The key for successful reinventors is to get human eyeballs on the app. I remember reading somewhere that someone with a 2.9 GPA got into Vanderbilt, so there's one school that on my list for people like OP to aim for, if they do extremely well in their new lives.

Another clue that a school is more holistic in its screening would be those that have wide 10-90th %ile in GPAs. For example, Pitt isn't one of them.

 

[ZedsDed]

They are also in a better postion if they attend an SMP with a strong linkage to an affiliated medical school.

Sadly for MD schools, these are almost nonexistent nowadays, for various reasons. The two that do exist, have 3.4-3.6 averages for matriculants. So OP is out of luck there.

Legitimate MD SMPs want to see a strong upward grade trend (at least a year of 3.7+), coupled with a strong MCAT score, before they consider OP. This will be difficult considering that OP has already graduated. Unless s/he feels like tacking on an additional year of postbacc UG classes and doing an SMP, this route doesn't make much sense imo.

In OP's position, I would focus on the MCAT, retake all F/D/C coursework, and apply DO. I think this makes much more sense, both financially and otherwise.

 

[gyngyn]

Sadly for MD schools, these are almost nonexistent nowadays, for various reasons. The two that do exist, have 3.4-3.6 averages for matriculants. So OP is out of luck there.

Legitimate MD SMPs want to see a strong upward grade trend (at least a year of 3.7+), coupled with a strong MCAT score, before they consider OP. This will be difficult considering that OP has already graduated. Unless s/he feels like tacking on an additional year of postbacc UG classes and doing an SMP, this route doesn't make much sense imo.

In OP's position, I would focus on the MCAT and retake all F/D/C coursework. I think this makes much more sense, both financially and otherwise.

Which two are they?

 

[ZedsDed]

Which two are they?

Temple's ACMS program is the only MD SMP with a guaranteed acceptance at the end of the road, pending a >3.5 performance.

Tulane's MCMB program simply has a very high percentage of graduates that matriculate into the host med school. In addition, a strong showing in this program has historically gotten applicants into very good schools.

Both of these programs are very competitive and have small class sizes.

Toledo was another one until very recently. Their acceptance rate from SMP to host med school dropped from 80%-20%!

 

[ZedsDed]

Which two are they?

While we're on the subject, I'm curious if you think applicants with academic blemishes who crush an SMP (say 3.8 at Georgetown) are competitive for the UC's? Some of the more well-known SMPs state that their grads have gotten into the UCs, but this could be a sample of 3 for all I know. It would be nice to know that true SMPs have the influence on AdCom's that they advertise, especially in Ca.

 

[gyngyn]

While we're on the subject, I'm curious if you think applicants with academic blemishes who crush an SMP (say 3.8 at Georgetown) are competitive for the UC's? Some of the more well-known SMPs state that their grads have gotten into the UCs, but this could be a sample of 3 for all I know. It would be nice to know that true SMPs have the influence on AdCom's that they advertise, especially in Ca.

I can tell you that GT is quite pro-active in giving us updates on their students' progress. Amy Richards sends us every molecule of positive info on the candidates at regular intervals.

 

[ZedsDed]

I can tell you that GT is quite pro-active in giving us updates on their students' progress. Amy Richards sends us every molecule of positive info on the candidates at regular intervals.

Glad to hear it! I was wondering if those emails were actually read, or turned into (metaphorical) paper airplanes. Thanks!

 

[Grace184]

This is not an SMP applicant- what are her realistic chances given a sub par 3.0 uGpas and?

@gyngyn @Goro

 

[Grace184]

Sadly for MD schools, these are almost nonexistent nowadays, for various reasons. The two that do exist, have 3.4-3.6 averages for matriculants. So OP is out of luck there.

Legitimate MD SMPs want to see a strong upward grade trend (at least a year of 3.7+), coupled with a strong MCAT score, before they consider OP. This will be difficult considering that OP has already graduated. Unless s/he feels like tacking on an additional year of postbacc UG classes and doing an SMP, this route doesn't make much sense imo.

In OP's position, I would focus on the MCAT, retake all F/D/C coursework, and apply DO. I think this makes much more sense, both financially and otherwise.

Thank you for logic and also improving this candidates chances of actually succeeding

 

[amapples]

I can tell you that GT is quite pro-active in giving us updates on their students' progress. Amy Richards sends us every molecule of positive info on the candidates at regular intervals.

Interesting because they certainly don't have one of the strongest linkage programs!

 

[amapples]

Temple's ACMS program is the only MD SMP with a guaranteed acceptance at the end of the road, pending a >3.5 performance.

Tulane's MCMB program simply has a very high percentage of graduates that matriculate into the host med school. In addition, a strong showing in this program has historically gotten applicants into very good schools.

Both of these programs are very competitive and have small class sizes.

Toledo was another one until very recently. Their acceptance rate from SMP to host med school dropped from 80%-20%!

Is this something that is directly stated on their website or kind of just "known"? I'm referring primarily to Temple's ACMS program.

 

[gyngyn]

Interesting because they certainly don't have one of the strongest linkage programs!

Maybe that's why!

 

[gyngyn]

Temple's ACMS program is the only MD SMP with a guaranteed acceptance at the end of the road, pending a >3.5 performance.

Tulane's MCMB program simply has a very high percentage of graduates that matriculate into the host med school. In addition, a strong showing in this program has historically gotten applicants into very good schools.

Both of these programs are very competitive and have small class sizes.

Toledo was another one until very recently. Their acceptance rate from SMP to host med school dropped from 80%-20%!

I thought Chicago Med took a bunch in their special program?

 

[ZedsDed]

Is this something that is directly stated on their website or kind of just "known"? I'm referring primarily to Temple's ACMS program.

But they have consistently, for 40 years, gotten most of their graduates into MD schools.

 

[ZedsDed]

Interesting because they certainly don't have one of the strongest linkage programs!

Is this something that is directly stated on their website or kind of just "known"? I'm referring primarily to Temple's ACMS program.

All of the information I provided should be readily available.

 

[ZedsDed]

I thought Chicago Med took a bunch in their special program?

Loyola? It's a great program. But most people think of linkage as near 90 or 100% getting into the host med school. Loyola does not provide that. The majority of their graduates get into a school, last I heard.

 

[amapples]

Loyola? It's a great program. But most people think of linkage as near 90 or 100% getting into the host med school. Loyola does not provide that. The majority of their graduates get into a school, last I heard.

I think he's talking about RFU.

 

[gyngyn]

Loyola? It's a great program. But most people think of linkage as near 90 or 100% getting into the host med school. Loyola does not provide that. The majority of their graduates get into a school, last I heard.

Chicago Med is also known as Rosalind Franklin.
I think of linkage as something more like 20% matriculation and a guaranteed interview (at some level)!

 

[gyngyn]

This is not an SMP applicant- what are her realistic chances given a sub par 3.0 uGpas and?

@gyngyn @Goro

Vanishingly small.
I can't say I've ever seen a 2.75 gpa interviewed at my school (not counting "courtesy" interviews).

 

[ZedsDed]

Chicago Med is also known as Rosalind Franklin.
I think of linkage as something more like 20% matriculation and a guaranteed interview (at some level)!

I see that is an 80% chance of going somewhere else, which is fine if the SNP has a good reputation. Otherwise, the odds are pretty risky considering that it cost thousands of dollars and usually a move across the country to complete an SMP.

 

[gyngyn]

I see that is an 80% chance of going somewhere else, which is fine if the SNP has a good reputation. Otherwise, the odds are pretty risky considering that it cost thousands of dollars and usually a move across the country to complete an SMP.

I agree.

 

[ZedsDed]

Never quite understood why the UCs don't take advantage of this situation and start an SMP of their own, considering the boatloads of Ca kids that make their way to the east coast SMPs. Not to mention, the opportunity for revenue. The market has been there for decades. My brethren and I would pray at the alter of Janis napolitano if this were to happen.

 

[tennerd]

a

 

[Gathei]

Sadly for MD schools, these are almost nonexistent nowadays, for various reasons. The two that do exist, have 3.4-3.6 averages for matriculants. So OP is out of luck there.

Legitimate MD SMPs want to see a strong upward grade trend (at least a year of 3.7+), coupled with a strong MCAT score, before they consider OP. This will be difficult considering that OP has already graduated. Unless s/he feels like tacking on an additional year of postbacc UG classes and doing an SMP, this route doesn't make much sense imo.

In OP's position, I would focus on the MCAT, retake all F/D/C coursework, and apply DO. I think this makes much more sense, both financially and otherwise.

just a quick question: why is an additional year of postbacc UG classes then doing an SMP not a good idea? That is sorta my game plan right now because of my low uGPA and lack of substantial ECs which I'm working on as I take classes and work.

 

[Sumofatterman]

SIU MEDPREP has a linkage to SIU's medical school, but it's geared towards Illinois residents/students that are URM/disadvantaged. They just established an SMP. Those students that do well in the program, and score >498 as well as a strong committee recommendation through MEDPREP can matriculate without an interview into the medical school.

 

[Goro]

Zero at DO or MD. No med school would do her a favor with such a huge risk of failing out.

This is not an SMP applicant- what are her realistic chances given a sub par 3.0 uGpas and?


This is an interview given as a courtesy to friends/relations of potential donors, alumni, Faculty, current students or Administration. The candidates typically have defects like low stats. So they're given a polite interview and then a polite spot (permanently) on the wait list.

They're not rejected outright so as to not piss off the sponsor who arranged the interview. My school has done this a number of times and they're really a waste of the interviewer's time. I will typically ask the kid 1-2 softball questions and move on.

can you explain courtesy interviews

 

[ZedsDed]

just a quick question: why is an additional year of postbacc UG classes then doing an SMP not a good idea? That is sorta my game plan right now because of my low uGPA and lack of substantial ECs which I'm working on as I take classes and work.

Im not saying it's a bad idea, its what many have done. It's just a big 2-4 year sacrifice with no guarantees. If you are willing to take that risk, go for it.

 

[Gathei]

Im not saying it's a bad idea, its what many have done. It's just a big 2-4 year sacrifice with no guarantees. If you are willing to take that risk, go for it.

I see. Thanks so much for clarifying!

 

[gyngyn]

can you explain courtesy interviews

Sometimes, a very lofty person (like a trustee) will use their power in a university to get an interview for a candidate who would not otherwise get one. These interviews are considered a courtesy to the person who asked for the interview.
They are a discourtesy to to everyone else including the candidate who now believes that they have a chance of getting in.

 

[amapples]

Sometimes, a very lofty person (like a trustee) will use their power in a university to get an interview for a candidate who would not otherwise get one. These interviews are considered a courtesy to the person who asked for the interview.
They are a discourtesy to to everyone else including the candidate who now believes that they have a chance of getting in.

So it doesn't really help if you're family or family friends with someone on the adcom or dean of admissions?

 

[gyngyn]

So it doesn't really help if you're family or family friends with someone on the adcom or dean of admissions?

Only if you were an otherwise strong candidate.
Admissions officers are expected to recuse themselves from review of family or those with whom they have close mentorship.

I will admit that a significant number of so called "legacy" applicants do seem to go a lot further than their accomplishments would predict, though.

 

[Goro]

Yup! Been there done that with our school, and others where friends are on at Faculty.

Only if you were an otherwise strong candidate.
Admissions officers are expected to recuse themselves from review of family or those with whom they have a close mentorship.

I will admit that a significant number of so called "legacy" applicants do seem to go a lot further than their accomplishments would predict, though.

 

[Grace184]

Zero at DO or MD. No med school would do her a favor with such a huge risk of failing out.

Thank you- this is what I was looking for

OP, my intention wasn't to bring in a great debate, but to help you see that it unwise to apply this cycle with these uGPAs. It would be better to take a gap year and focus on retaking undergrad classes to bring these up to make you competitive and to prove to adcoms that you can handle the basic sciences. It would be unfortunate for you to spend so much money applying to schools when you could be focusing on a better app for next year, instead of waiting for a year and having to remediate later.