I need help---PLEASE POST

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akhan4489

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I am currently a senior attending high school in the United States (California). I know that i want to be an Orthopedic Surgeon in the future. My cousin from London recently visited me and totally shook up my world. She informed me that it is possible to jump right into medical school and complete it within 6 years in England and Ireland. Since then, i have been doing lots of research on my own and i am all for it. My troubles are:
--am i qualified?
--can i return to the states after the 6 years and will my education be recognized?
--when and how should i apply?
--what are the "good" medical schools in Europe?

If anyone can please answer any of these questions it will help me out a whole lot and i would greatly appreciate it!

Please give me all possible info. THANKS!!! (e-mail: [email protected])
 
akhan4489 said:
I currently a senior attending high school in the United States (California). I know that i want to be an Orthopedic Surgeon in the future. My cousin from London, England recently visited me and totally shook up my world. She informed me that it is possible to jump right into medical school and complete it within 6 years in England and Ireland. Since then, i have been doing lots of research on my own and i am al for it. My troubles are:
--am i qualified?
--can i return to the states after the 6 years and will my education be recognized?
--when and how should i apply?
--what are the "good" medical schools in Europe?

If anyone can please answer any of these questions it will help me out a whole lot and i would greatly appreciate it!

Please give me all possible info. THANKS!!! (e-mail: [email protected])
Click to expand...



If you want to practice in the US, your best odds are to go to school in the US. Particularly so in a relatively competitive specialty such as orthopedics. And this is not a race -- the goal shouldn't be to skip past college, which should be the best 4 years of your life, if you do it right.
 
Perfect slow dancing next to a wall. Fall asleep outside on the quad watching the moon. Grow up a bit. Take your time kid. Your patients will be glad that you did.

Searun
 
And also, no offense, but you're only what.. 17? It's nice to have goals but don't let them get in the way of discovering new things and taking on new interests. You might like Ortho now but have you REALLY been exposed to it that much that you know for sure that it's for you? People barely know what they wanna do goin into med school! Good luck!
 
haha, i understand where u guys r coming from, however, i know how and when to enjoy myself, and my main thing is:

i wanna jump straight into it because i don't want to spend 2 years here in the States "thinking" about what i want to do, i dont want to lose focus of my goal and be distracted, i just need some info on how to accomplish this....please help meeee
 
If I were you, I would first take a step back and examine your motives for becoming an orthopedic surgeon rather than cranking out a recipe to becoming an orthpedic surgeon. Do you know what the job entails? Have you spoken to or shadowed orthopedic surgeons? Just my opinion, but I don't think anyone at the of 17 or 18 can realistically say that they absolutely know what they want to do in life, especially a field as specialized as orthopedic surgery.
 
When I was a senior in high school I knew that I wanted to be a computer engineer more than anything and double major in computer science.

You'd be surprised what sort of career changes you make in college.
 
please everyone, i just need some help, i appreciate the concern, i really do, but i just need some facts
 
akhan4489 said:
please everyone, i just need some help, i appreciate the concern, i really do, but i just need some facts
Click to expand...

Facts are, your best odds to get to where you want to go (Ortho in US) is to attend college and medschool in the US. You can ask over and over again, but the advice from everybody here (and on the pre-osteo board where you also posted) will be the same. If your gameplan was a better one, everyone on this board would have already done it.
 
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akhan4489 said:
i wanna jump straight into it because i don't want to spend 2 years here in the States "thinking" about what i want to do, i dont want to lose focus of my goal and be distracted, i just need some info on how to accomplish this....please help meeee
Click to expand...

If being an orthopedic surgeon is something you could get bored with or distracted from in those "two extra" years of college/med school, then it's definitely not something to rush into.

But as everyone is already telling you: doing a program outside the US will hurt your chances of matching into ortho surg, and similar programs exist in the US.
 
akhan4489 said:
haha, i understand where u guys r coming from, however, i know how and when to enjoy myself, and my main thing is:

i wanna jump straight into it because i don't want to spend 2 years here in the States "thinking" about what i want to do, i dont want to lose focus of my goal and be distracted, i just need some info on how to accomplish this....please help meeee
Click to expand...

just so you are aware: In UK you will technically finish med school in X amount of time...which would make it seem like you will finish earlier over there compared to here in the states. The difference is that you spend a MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCHHHHHHHHHH longer time in PG programs than you do here...that could be a good thing or bad thing depending on how you look at it.

Once you do finish your training over there you will have to come back to the states and take the USMLE (I'm sure someone on here knows the exact breakdown). Since it is the UK (i.e. English speaking country that is also a world power) you probably will not have to repeat residency (so that is a good thing).

I guess what I am getting at is truly make sure you weigh your options before you jump right in it.

I remember when I studied abroad over ther it was weird to see all these youngsters saying: "I'm in medical school" (but that is kind of besides the point)
 
have you considered applying to a 6 yr BA/MD program here in the states?

good luck
 
as other posters have noted, there are 6/7 year programs here in the states, hope you rocked the sat
 
As others have said, the best way to practice in the U.S. is to do medical school in the U.S. It is extremely difficult for IMGs to get good residencies here. Also, as I understand it, medical education in the UK is extremely different from here. You "finish" after 6 years + residency, but then you're just an MBBS and only qualified for general practice (I believe). In order to obtain an MD, you have to do several years of research. And then if you want to specialize, you have to complete a second residency.

Seriously, unless you want to work in the U.K. or something, it's really not worth it to cram through. Although if you're going to enter college thinking it's just messing around and wasting time, well, I'm sorry. College is hands-down the best years of your life. Maybe, as a HS senior, you don't understand why -- I certainly didn't get it until I came to college, and now I'm a little sad to be filling out graduation degree audits and whatnot.

I understand that you have a very specific goal, and that's admirable, but why are you rushing without taking time to enjoy the only life you get?
 
UCSD has a 6 year program I believe.
 
Just off the top of my head:

Brown
USC
UC Riverside

All have Bacc/MD programs. If I were an ultra-motivated 17-year old kid trying to become an orthopedic surgeon, that's definitely the route I'd go. Unfortunately, I'm almost twice that old and I know you're sick of hearing this, but usually when you find the perfect shortcut, it ends up being neither perfect, nor a shortcut. Trust me, there's a reason why everyone who's replied to your post has told you the same thing about going to school in the U.S.
 
To the OP,

Had I not gone to college I wouldn't have had the good fortune of losing my virginity.... YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN SCHOOL FOR A VERY VERY LONG TIME NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO IF YOU WANT TO PURSUE MEDICINE... DON'T RUSH IT!
 
jayhawk07 said:
Actually there are several baccalaureate/MD programs in the U.S. that yield the MD degree after six years following high school. If you are dead set on taking the shortcut, check them out. Example:

http://www.med.umkc.edu/education/default.html
Click to expand...

Rushing into these things is never a good idea. (esp w/ the UMKC program, speaking through experience)

Go 4+4, but if you can get some sort of early assurance, go for it. 6 years is not enough time for undegrad+med school, and if you pull it off, you'll find out that you might not have matched as well as you could have otherwise.


BTW. Sure, you like ortho now, could be IM in 2 years and oncology 2 years after that (this is the exact course I took), who knows by the time you actually finish your rotations? Don't lock yourself in early.
 
I agree with dekapute ^^^^ rushing into anything is not good.. I mean how do you completly undoubtfully know this is what you want to do. By the way there are school's here in the US that have that 6 year program, but it's extremely competative. So do some more research and remember that you are still young and have alot of time to make and dismake up your mind..

Good Luck...
 
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akhan4489 said:
please everyone, i just need some help, i appreciate the concern, i really do, but i just need some facts
Click to expand...

So I too long ago considered going to the UK for medical school thinking it would be a much more exotic option. I contacted program directors in Edinburgh and London and reached the same conclusion: As a US citizen they don't want you. Just like our medical schools, the UK schools provide very few slots for international applicants (especially since the UK process if heavily government supported and therefore really cheap) and those slots that are available tend to go to students who would not otherwise have an opportunity to complete medical school in their own countries (i.e. their countries, due to poverty, war, or a combination, don't have sound medical school facilities). It's perfect fine to be gungho at this point in your life (I was more sure about my goals and desire to become a pediatric surgeon at 18 - my senior year in high school - than I've ever been since then). Of course, as others have mentioned, that highlights an inherent truth about growing up: It's very likely that your goals will change along the way and that's okay (and somewhat encouraged). I recommend checking out the combined BA/MD programs here in the United States and not worrying about the extra year at this point. Extra time shouldn't be seen as a negative thing that has the potential to reduce your focus. Instead, you should see it as a learning opportunity that can reconfirm your desire to go down a very very long track (4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 5 years of general surgery residency, additional years of post-residency fellowship, etcetera).

If you don't choose to believe me (since it sounds like you might not), the best way to find out about your options is to go on some of the UK school websites (www.edinburgh.ac.uk is the only one I've memorized over the years, but there are dozens of others) and find the email for the admissions directors. Then, send a short email explaining your desire to study in the UK as a US citizen and see what they say.
 
you want to be an orthopedic surgeon? yeah and i want to be an astronaut or a professional baseball player and football player (like BO).

give me a break. try graduating high school first.
 
akhan4489 said:
Please give me all possible info. THANKS!!! (e-mail: [email protected])
Click to expand...
Hope you enjoy unsolicited stock advice and porn referrals. 'Cause if you keep posting your email address on public web-boards, the spiders are going to find your address and you'll have lots of email coming your way.

Go to med school abroad as an American if you have to. Not by choice.
 
Ask yourself, is it even worth leaving your friends, family, town, hobbies, football, basketball, baseball, President Bush for TWO YEARS! Buddy, medicine takes a long ass time, 2 years will fly by...I promise. Plus, you will be considered a FOREIGN MEDICAL GRADUATE, which sux. MY uncle is a FMG and has appled to over 50 residency programs for just internal medicine.
 
I agree with everyone's advice given above.

That being said, I have two friends that just finished med school at Oxford (note: they are actually British), one of which is considering coming to the US for residency. According to them, the only medical schools in the UK that get *any* respect from competitive US residency programs (note: all ortho programs are competitive) are Oxford and Cambridge. So, first off, if you did this, it would only be worth it to go to either of those two institutions.

That being said, I have no idea why either of those two institutions would take an American who "just wanted to finish faster". Oxford and Cambridge have absolutely no problem recruiting the best and the brightest of UK students... so why would they want to waste their time and money on an American that was just trying to finagle the process?

Go with a US 6-year program if you wanna quicken the process.
 
let me guess, OP; you're indian
 
rajad10 said:
let me guess, OP; you're indian
Click to expand...

:laugh: :laugh:

i love your avatar. he's the man. along with double A.

i would love to hear the OP explain specifically why orthopedic surgery is his calling.

foofish: excellent point. if the OP is worried about getting distracted by the extra 2 years then that pretty much invalidates his dedication.
 
Dude, you're already behind. There's a kid in my med school class who's 17! Seriously. He has tons of fun when we go out drinking after a test and he has to stay home. But by internship he'll be 21.

Anyway, realistically, if you were to go to another country to do a BA/MD and you decided you didn't want to do medicine anymore, you'd be screwed. They have a 6 year program, but you can't leave in 4 with a BA like you could here. You'd have just wasted several years and thousands of dollars with nothing to show for it. You're better off applying to joint programs in the US.
 
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akhan4489 said:
I am currently a senior attending high school in the United States (California). I know that i want to be an Orthopedic Surgeon in the future. My cousin from London recently visited me and totally shook up my world. She informed me that it is possible to jump right into medical school and complete it within 6 years in England and Ireland. Since then, i have been doing lots of research on my own and i am all for it. My troubles are:
--am i qualified?
--can i return to the states after the 6 years and will my education be recognized?
--when and how should i apply?
--what are the "good" medical schools in Europe?

If anyone can please answer any of these questions it will help me out a whole lot and i would greatly appreciate it!

Please give me all possible info. THANKS!!! (e-mail: [email protected])
Click to expand...

Please get a life.
 
diosa428 said:
Anyway, realistically, if you were to go to another country to do a BA/MD and you decided you didn't want to do medicine anymore, you'd be screwed. They have a 6 year program, but you can't leave in 4 with a BA like you could here. You'd have just wasted several years and thousands of dollars with nothing to show for it. You're better off applying to joint programs in the US.
Click to expand...

Also worth noting is that the percentage of folks who fail out of US med schools is pretty nominal (about 1.5%, according to AMSA). Schools see you as an investment, and will often nurture you to the finish line, letting you retake things as necessary, rather than throwing you to the curb. You don't have that kind of safety net overseas, where attrition rates are not really that low.
 
I have to agree with what the others have posted, as well.

The US has a fundamentally different medical education mindset than most other countries. Here, you are encouraged to explore all your options, to make damn sure that being a doctor is really what you want to do. You are encouraged (or, dare I say, required) to become a well-rounded person with diverse interests.

I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but in many Western European countries, students begin to specialize in high school. By the time they get to those 6-year MD programs you're considering, they've had science shoved down their throat for many years already. So, unless you've been gung-ho advanced science all this time, you'll have a lot of catching up to do.

Definitely look into some BA/MD programs here in the US. If you want to come back and practice, I think that is your safest bet.

Anyway, whatever you decide to do, good luck. Please consider ALL your options - you'll be happier for it in the end, I guarantee.
 
--am i qualified?
probably not. qualifications are done using something called A-Levels and GCSEs. submitting a SAT and GPA won't mean anything to them. i know for a fact that edinburgh uni requires US/Canada potential med students to take (and do well on) the MCAT

--can i return to the states after the 6 years and will my education be recognized?
maybe. you'll have to sit some standardized exams. it will be doable, but you probably won't get the top placements...

--when and how should i apply?
each university deals with international applicants differently. if you were a regular british applicant you'd submit your A-levels about a year before...

--what are the "good" medical schools in Europe?
if you want to move back to the US, any in the UK.

are you a UK citizen? you'll need to explain why you should be going to the UK for med school. further, they'll want to hear if you plan on staying in the UK after finishing your degree (which they'll be expecting you to do). this is only a legitimate option for people with circumstances forcing them to the UK - family/marriage etc...

this can be done. but you don't really seem to know why you want to go? exoticism and speed are not two reasons to go to medschool...

ignore the haters, if this is what you REALLY want to do, go forit...
 
Man theyre just breeding these type A students earlier and earlier. Soon he'll start "planning" on getting a 260 on the boards, and then "plan" on placing into one of the best ortho programs in the country, and hell, might as well take that next step, and begin to assemble your practice already.

To the OP... at 17, you might think you know everything, but its only because you know so little. The more you learn and know as you get older, the less you realize you know. Trust me... been there done that, you can't live life a decade ahead of time. Listen to the people on these boards... their expertise far encompasses your own. They probably know more about what you want and need more than you do about yourself.
 
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