I need some advice

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twith

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Okay I plan on graduating in December of 09. I am taking organic chem II and calculus this summer. I am doing good in organic chem II but I am failing calculus (which I shouldn't of taken because its only 4 weeks). This is the only class that I might get a bad grade in. My GPA right know is a 3.46 and I want to get it up to a least a 3.5 before I graduate. If I fail calculus my GPA would DROP to a 3.28. I have two options I can try to pull off a C and stay in or I could drop in tomorrow and attempt to take it in the fall. I want to go to osteopathic school and I don't know what to do..... Can someone please give me some advice.
 
A 3.5 is a pretty decent gpa. If you have a good MCAT/ECs there are a lot of allo's you have a shot at. With a 3.3, you're still a good candidate for a lot of osteo's. If I were you, I wouldn't take the shot at my gpa unless I had to. Failing a class might be something that med schools will want to ask you about when you get to the interview and it's something I wouldn't really want. Adding another semester might be a financial burden and inconvenience but I would say to withdraw now and do better in the fall. In the long run, the investment isn't going to kill you and in the short run, having a 3.5 gives you a lot more oppurtunities than a 3.3 with a fail. Just me though, I could understand the reasons for wanting to stick it out.
 
The way I see it, if the choice is between withdraw and fail, you should withdraw. Obviously not an ideal situation, but if you knock it out of the park in fall then things should be jolly.
 
I would drop it, a W can be explained many ways while an F is alot harder to explain. Retake it and shoot for an A in orgo.
 
plus, most school don't let you walk till the fall anyways. Take calc and try getting a research position in the fall.
 
Won't a W calculate as an F GPA-wise anyways?

Or is it just that its easier to explain?
 
taylormade2006 said:
Won't a W calculate as an F GPA-wise anyways?
Click to expand...

No - at least not most places. Withdraw just means you left the course (you have to do it before a certain time, after the drop date it'd just be an F). So it doesn't count one way or the other on your GPA.
 
I didn't read any of the replies, just FYI.

Withdraw. No one cares. Especially if it is the only W in your transcript. The only time it would come up is if your interviewer directly addresses you about it. And then, just be honest (not totally honest), say you were at a B going into the final, and did not want to risk dropping your GPA further, knowing you don't have the world's greatest GPA.

It's that easy. 🙂


I just read the previous post. They are right. A "W" never computes into a GPA. Only "WFs" do, which are the same as a F.
 
Oops, I was thinking WF - thanks guys.

At my school, anything dropped after the drop date was an automatic WF. Is that normal?
 
twith said:
Okay I plan on graduating in December of 09. I am taking organic chem II and calculus this summer. I am doing good in organic chem II but I am failing calculus (which I shouldn't of taken because its only 4 weeks). This is the only class that I might get a bad grade in. My GPA right know is a 3.46 and I want to get it up to a least a 3.5 before I graduate. If I fail calculus my GPA would DROP to a 3.28. I have two options I can try to pull off a C and stay in or I could drop in tomorrow and attempt to take it in the fall. I want to go to osteopathic school and I don't know what to do..... Can someone please give me some advice.
Click to expand...

I'm normally not a fan of W's, but in this case if you can get a W I'd do it that way.

camaras2480 said:
I didn't read any of the replies, just FYI.

Withdraw. No one cares. Especially if it is the only W in your transcript. The only time it would come up is if your interviewer directly addresses you about it. And then, just be honest (not totally honest), say you were at a B going into the final, and did not want to risk dropping your GPA further, knowing you don't have the world's greatest GPA.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. I don't think adcoms will appreciate GPA protection like this. Say that you were too busy with OChem/work/volunteering, and that you felt like you'd get more out of the course if you took it during a full semester. Then get an A in the fall.
 
JimmerJammerMrK said:
I disagree with this. I don't think adcoms will appreciate GPA protection like this. Say that you were too busy with OChem/work/volunteering, and that you felt like you'd get more out of the course if you took it during a full semester. Then get an A in the fall.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I like that. 👍

But still, if it is actually one W, it's not really GPA protection IMHO. The candidate is trying to get a 3.5, not hold their 4.0. They are just nearing the end of their career and didn't want to smash their face with a not so nice letter haha. But yes, your reason still is better 😀
 
for those of you who said that a WF will be treated as a failed grade (0 gpa) where did you get this information?

From what it says in the AMCAS instructions,

" Any course from which you OFFICIALLY withdrew, regardless of whether or not you were passing or failing at the time. Such courses usually appear on the transcript as a W or equivalent symbol.

* a course entry must be made even if the withdrawn course does not appear on the transcript
* a course entry should not be made if the course was dropped within the normal drop/add period.
*no credit hours or AMCAS grade will be assigned.

(skip an irrelevant to this discussion part)

If you have an official or administrative withdrawal, it will be included in the AMCAS GPA if your school included it in their GPA.


BASICALLY, I received a WF for a course. According to my university, a WF is a category of a withdrawal (student is failing the course at the time that the withdrawal was requested). However, it is not considered to be a failing grade, no credits were awarded, and a final grade was not assigned. My university treats a WF as an officially recognized/administratively acceptable withdrawal AND it does NOT include it in their GPA. Based on AMCAS's above listed policy, because my university does not view the grade as an F, considers it to be a category of a withdrawal, views it as an official administrative withdrawal, and does not include it in my GPA, I have good reason to believe that my WF will not be included in AMCAS's calculation of my GPA!??!?! Does this not make sense based on what AMCAS outlines and the info I have provided from my university?

Why have people interpreted it otherwise? Is your situation similar to mine?

K
 
neuro1986 said:
for those of you who said that a WF will be treated as a failed grade (0 gpa) where did you get this information?

From what it says in the AMCAS instructions,

" Any course from which you OFFICIALLY withdrew, regardless of whether or not you were passing or failing at the time. Such courses usually appear on the transcript as a W or equivalent symbol.

* a course entry must be made even if the withdrawn course does not appear on the transcript
* a course entry should not be made if the course was dropped within the normal drop/add period.
*no credit hours or AMCAS grade will be assigned.

(skip an irrelevant to this discussion part)

If you have an official or administrative withdrawal, it will be included in the AMCAS GPA if your school included it in their GPA.


BASICALLY, I received a WF for a course. According to my university, a WF is a category of a withdrawal (student is failing the course at the time that the withdrawal was requested). However, it is not considered to be a failing grade, no credits were awarded, and a final grade was not assigned. My university treats a WF as an officially recognized/administratively acceptable withdrawal AND it does NOT include it in their GPA. Based on AMCAS's above listed policy, because my university does not view the grade as an F, considers it to be a category of a withdrawal, views it as an official administrative withdrawal, and does not include it in my GPA, I have good reason to believe that my WF will not be included in AMCAS's calculation of my GPA!??!?! Does this not make sense based on what AMCAS outlines and the info I have provided from my university?

Why have people interpreted it otherwise? Is your situation similar to mine?

K
Click to expand...

If you're really concerned about it, call AMCAS. Otherwise I would stop stressing; you can't change it now and you'll see once you are verified.
 
I am also interested in the part that talks about AMCAS including it "IF your school included it in GPA"

My school did not include WF's in GPA, does that mean AMCAS also will not?
 
taylormade2006 said:
I am also interested in the part that talks about AMCAS including it "IF your school included it in GPA"

My school did not include WF's in GPA, does that mean AMCAS also will not?
Click to expand...

No, AMCAS has its own policies, nothing to do with what your school does. You have to report anything on your transcript, and you do NOT have to report anything NOT on your transcript.

Yes, that is obvious.

About the WF - as JJMrK said, call AMCAS for clarification. When you find out how it works, please post on the thread. If I was incorrect, my apologies ahead of time.
 
a month or so ago. I actually called a few times and had the same info verified from different people. IT TOTALLY DEPENDS ON YOUR SCHOOL'S POLICY. If your school does not consider the WF as a failed grade AND it was given according to official administrative policies, then it is not calculated in your GPA. If someone has heard or experienced otherwise, feel free to clarify. this info however comes directly from AMCAS.
 
camaras2480 said:
No, AMCAS has its own policies, nothing to do with what your school does. You have to report anything on your transcript, and you do NOT have to report anything NOT on your transcript.

Yes, that is obvious.

About the WF - as JJMrK said, call AMCAS for clarification. When you find out how it works, please post on the thread. If I was incorrect, my apologies ahead of time.
Click to expand...

When you say that AMCAS has its own policies, I agree, AMCAS does- HOWEVER, this happens to be a case where AMCAS'S official policy is that they will determine how they treat the WF based on the information each person's university provides them concerning how the university views/treats the WF.
 
JimmerJammerMrK said:
If you're really concerned about it, call AMCAS. Otherwise I would stop stressing; you can't change it now and you'll see once you are verified.
Click to expand...

....its the nature of the process, at least for many of us. information that establishes certainty is important. the condition of living in uncertainty is highly uncomfortable. the fact that a WF might bring my GPA from a 3.9 to a 3.7something is considerable. I'd rather KNOW the answer now - even if it is disappointing- rather than continuously wonder about how this will be resolved... I'd much prefer not to wonder whether or not I will be competitive at a top tier school or a middle tier school and what will likely lie in my future.
 
neuro1986 said:
a month or so ago. I actually called a few times and had the same info verified from different people. IT TOTALLY DEPENDS ON YOUR SCHOOL'S POLICY. If your school does not consider the WF as a failed grade AND it was given according to official administrative policies, then it is not calculated in your GPA. If someone has heard or experienced otherwise, feel free to clarify. this info however comes directly from AMCAS.
Click to expand...

Great, thanks for the clarification!
 
although- given my underlying paranoia over this process I don't know if I still feel entirely comfortable with this resolution- I mean, I don't know if anything short of AMCAS executing the policy they outlined to me would reassure me OR if someone in my exact situation (with the same grade and university policy) could say for sure that they were not penalized for their WF.

(You're)
 
neuro1986 said:
although- given my underlying paranoia over this process I don't know if I still feel entirely comfortable with this resolution- I mean, I don't know if anything short of AMCAS executing the policy they outlined to me would reassure me OR if someone in my exact situation (with the same grade and university policy) could say for sure that they were not penalized for their WF.

(You're)
Click to expand...

You heard it from AMCAS - that's about as good as it gets. Call again tomorrow so you get someone else, and re-clarify it.

I did note your paranoia about this 😛
 
call again...and maybe again, etc. etc. etc.

Its paranoia as a result of the significance of the consequence combined with the feeling of lingering uncertainty (bad combo)..

I'll let you know if anything changes!

K
 
neuro1986 said:
call again...and maybe again, etc. etc. etc.

Its paranoia as a result of the significance of the consequence combined with the feeling of lingering uncertainty (bad combo)..

I'll let you know if anything changes!

K
Click to expand...

lol yeah, i understand. but really, don't forget to breathe!! you'll be okay 🙂
 
Today:

After comprehensively outlining my situation, the AMCAS guy told me that he was ABSOLUTELY sure that it would not count towards my GPA. I asked him again, he verified his initial response. I asked him to double check, and he came back and said 9/10 it would count. I was confused. He then admitted that he had never dealt with this situation and did not know the answer. I asked him to check and get back to me. He said he would. I am unsure of what to rely on for info now!

K
 
neuro1986 said:
Today:

After comprehensively outlining my situation, the AMCAS guy told me that he was ABSOLUTELY sure that it would not count towards my GPA. I asked him again, he verified his initial response. I asked him to double check, and he came back and said 9/10 it would count. I was confused. He then admitted that he had never dealt with this situation and did not know the answer. I asked him to check and get back to me. He said he would. I am unsure of what to rely on for info now!

K
Click to expand...

lol. this is what u get for being neurotic. I bet he is messing with you lol. Better call again tomorrow... 🙂
 
Hello,

I have been unable to find a final answer to this question. I have a WF (withdrawal failing) on my transcript. My understanding of your policy is that whether or not you include it in your AMCAS GPA calculation depends on the respective university policy.

From what it says in the AMCAS instructions,

" Any course from which you OFFICIALLY withdrew, regardless of whether or not you were passing or failing at the time. Such courses usually appear on the transcript as a W or equivalent symbol.

* a course entry must be made even if the withdrawn course does not appear on the transcript
* a course entry should not be made if the course was dropped within the normal drop/add period.
*no credit hours or AMCAS grade will be assigned.

(skip an irrelevant to this discussion part)

If you have an official or administrative withdrawal, it will be included in the AMCAS GPA if your school included it in their GPA.
------

The following information was taken DIRECTLY from my university's (Wayne State University) undergraduate bulletin:
The mark of `WF' - Official Withdrawal Failing
This mark is given when the student withdraws from the course in accordance with University policy and the student had earned a failing grade as of the date the withdrawal is approved.

According to my university, a WF is a category of a withdrawal (student is failing the course at the time that the withdrawal was requested). However, it is not considered to be a failing grade, no credits were awarded, and a final grade was not assigned. My university treats a WF as an officially recognized/administratively acceptable withdrawal AND it does NOT include it in their GPA. Based on AMCAS's above listed policy, because my university does not view the grade as an F, considers it to be an official category of a withdrawal, views it as an official administrative withdrawal, and does not include it in my GPA, am I correct to believe that my WF will not be included in AMCAS's calculation of my GPA? Does this not make sense based on what AMCAS outlines and the info I have provided from my university?


Thank you for helping me to find a final answer to this question!

K

Here is the e-mail I received from AMCAS:

Dear Applicant,

Thank you for contacting AMCAS.

It doesn't appear that Wayne State has told AMCAS that a 'WF" grade is equivalent to an 'F' and doesn't appear that this would be counted as an 'F' within your AMCAS application. You should contact Wayne State to verify that they do not count this coursework as a failing grade.

If you have any questions or if we can be of additional assistance, please contact us at [email protected] or (202) 828-0600.

AMCAS Association of American Medical Colleges

Section for Medical School Application Services

2450 N St., NW

Washington, DC 20037

U.S.A.

General Inquiries: (202) 828-0600

Fax: (202) 828-1120

www.aamc.org/AMCAS

------

In regards to their suggestion that I confirm this with my school- I already know that my university DOES NOT treat a WF as a failed grade so I can be fairly confident that the WF will not be counted in my AMCAS GPA. I do however detest words like "it doesn't appear" that are used to answer questions that should be yes/no (absolute) answers.
 
Last edited:
K dawg,

It sounds like things are all set for you - based on that huge post, those WFs won't count!
 
Last edited:
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