ToTheLighthouse

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Is it unwise to put all my eggs in one basket like this? I'll be graduating from undergrad in approx. 2 years. Philosophy Major, psychology minor.

Either Duquesne or go into Psychiatry. That's where I am right now.

Suggestions?
 

erg923

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well the 2 are very different.....not very similar...not too mention that one is a ph.d in psychology and the other is medical school.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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well the 2 are very different.....not very similar...not too mention that one is a ph.d in psychology and the other is medical school.
yep. If I can't have the theory/philosophy side of things, I'd rather just go straight psychiatry.

So my real question is whether it's reasonable to put all my eggs in one basket (Duquesne) or whether people think that's a bad choice and that I should just bite the bullet and go to med school.

I'm siding with Duquesne myself. It seems like a dream program to me.
 

erg923

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Personal decision of course. I'm sure you realize this decreases your odds, as clinical programs (even this obscure one) are competitive beasts.

However, med school seems to be the opposite of what you're most interested in. So im not sure I understand how/why you want want to become an M.D. if your real passion lies in matters of philosophy and humanistic psychology. Moreover, you do realize PH.D stands for "doctor of philosophy" and that Ph.D programs place alot of emphasis on developing clinical psychologist/scientists who have a deep undertanding of the theories of normal and abnormal human behavior, right? Much more so than the typical psy.d program, honestly. So again, not sure I understand why you think a typical clinical ph.d is somehow atheotretical? There is certainly more focus on the underlying theory/motivations of human behavior in a clinical psychology doctoral program than in medical school.....

What I do find concerning is that its consistently taking 50+ percent of their students more than seven years to complete the program. No thanks! That ridiculous and would unaccpetable in my program. Might wanna inquire about that issue.

http://www.duq.edu/psychology/_pdf/outcomes2009.pdf
 
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It seems extremely unwise to put all your eggs in one basket.

What makes you feel like Duquesne is your only option if you want the theory/philosophy side? I see their website more specifically addresses it (and qualitative research), but that doesn't mean it is not a significant part of other programs.

The two paths (PhD in clinical psych and MD in psychiatry) could ultimately lead to similar careers, but your heavy interest in the theory/philosophy is incongruent with psychiatry. What is your ultimate career goal?
 
Feb 22, 2010
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I'm siding with Duquesne myself. It seems like a dream program to me.
How much do you really know about the program? Are there professors there who you would like to do research with? Have you talked with any students or alums who can describe their experiences?

Further, have you looked into other, non-clinical programs that bring together psychology and philosophy? For example, there is a neuroscience and philosophy program at Wash U. There are plenty of philosophy departments that are interested in theories of mind, new materialism, etc. Emory's Institute for the Liberal Arts has a specialty in "Illness and Health in Cultural and Historical Contexts" (http://www.ila.emory.edu/ila-graduate/sub-graduate1.shtml) that might suit you better.

All I'm saying is that with two years of undergrad left you have a lot of time to decide what you want to do. You might even want to take a year or two off before you apply.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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I have a very high interest in philosophy/theory, AND have the career goal of being a therapist in private practice.
 
Feb 22, 2010
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I don't think so. But in all honesty, I couldn't say.
I haven't taken any courses like that since high school.
How much of the premed requirements have you taken? You need 4 semesters of chemistry (2 semesters of inorganic, 2 of organic) with lab, 2 semesters of bio w/ lab, 2 of physics w/ lab and 2 of calculus. That's a lot to fit in with a humanities major and social science minor. It definitely can be done, but you'll have to plan for it.

---

I get that you're interested in the philosophy/theory of psychology, but I'm suggesting that a clinical psych program is not the best way to pursue that interest. There are lots of other routes, such as an interdisciplinary program (like the programs at Emory or Wash U), or a history of science or philosophy of science program (of which there are many). I think you would be much happier in one of those kinds of programs, and could pursue clinical training through a MSW or applied masters instead.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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How much of the premed requirements have you taken? You need 4 semesters of chemistry (2 semesters of inorganic, 2 of organic) with lab, 2 semesters of bio w/ lab, 2 of physics w/ lab and 2 of calculus. That's a lot to fit in with a humanities major and social science minor. It definitely can be done, but you'll have to plan for it.

---

I get that you're interested in the philosophy/theory of psychology, but I'm suggesting that a clinical psych program is not the best way to pursue that interest. There are lots of other routes, such as an interdisciplinary program (like the programs at Emory or Wash U), or a history of science or philosophy of science program (of which there are many). I think you would be much happier in one of those kinds of programs, and could pursue clinical training through a MSW or applied masters instead.
what's an applied masters?
 
Feb 22, 2010
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what's an applied masters?
An applied clinical masters will focus on clinical practice. I'm not sure where you're from, but most of the California State Universities offer this kind of degree. For example, San Jose State: http://www.sjsu.edu/psych/GraduatePrograms/clinicalpsych/index.htm

"The program is designed to provide students with both theoretical and practical training in the assessment, diagnosis, and treatment of a wide variety of individual and family mental health problems. The MS Clinical program allows students to meet the educational requirements for California State licensure as a Marriage Family Therapist (MFT)."

In their FAQ they address the issue as well:

Q. I am considering going on for a Ph.D. Is this the right program for me?

A. In general, the response is an emphatic “no.” This program is intended to be a “terminal” Masters program in that it does NOT prepare you for further graduate work focusing on clinical research. Our intention is that this will be your final (or “terminal”) degree. If you are planning to pursue a Ph.D. or a Psy.D. degree, you should consider applying to a more research oriented graduate program. Be sure to check out the MA in Experimental Psychology program here at SJSU where you can take some clinical coursework. While you will receive no training to conduct psychotherapy in that program, it will prepare you to be more competitive when applying to Ph.D. programs.
 

erg923

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I don't think so. But in all honesty, I couldn't say.
I haven't taken any courses like that since high school.
Well thats part of the reason med school has premed requirement courses...to weed out people who aren't into that kind of stuff.

Again, if philosophy is your main interest, there are philosophy phd programs that study theory of mind and humanistic issues. Perhaps you could see people clinically under and lcsw license. Either that or seek out ph.d. programs with Rogerian slants, but again, if your not dedicated to the science of psychology/human behavior first and foremost, then a ph.d. in psychology is really not for you.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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Well thats part of the reason med school has premed requirement courses...to weed out people who aren't into that kind of stuff.

Again, if philosophy is your main interest, there are philosophy phd programs that study theory of mind and humanistic issues. Perhaps you could see people clinically under and lcsw license. Either that or seek out ph.d. programs with Rogerian slants, but again, if your not dedicated to the science of psychology/human behavior first and foremost, then a ph.d. in psychology is really not for you.
except for at Duquesne, which takes a human sciences approach.
 
Jan 23, 2010
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Lighthouse...

It seems to me that no matter what advice people give you, you seem to only be llistening to yourself and weakly defending your choice. You have yet to provide specific examples about why you are making the choices you are making.

The point is, you still have 2 years of undergrad left. Take that time to listen to yourself and figure out what you truly like. Try to find a job or volunteer position where you could shadow the career options you are thinking of. The real world looks nothing like a text book. Lastly, if you are going to ask people for advice and help, consider listening to it, regardless of whether or not you agree with it.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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Lighthouse...

It seems to me that no matter what advice people give you, you seem to only be llistening to yourself and weakly defending your choice. You have yet to provide specific examples about why you are making the choices you are making.

The point is, you still have 2 years of undergrad left. Take that time to listen to yourself and figure out what you truly like. Try to find a job or volunteer position where you could shadow the career options you are thinking of. The real world looks nothing like a text book. Lastly, if you are going to ask people for advice and help, consider listening to it, regardless of whether or not you agree with it.
Thank you for the advice...

On that note, I wonder what it means to listen to advice, while not agreeing with it?
I'm obviously reading what others are posting...

What erg has to say about hardcore science is not totally applicable to the PhD program at Duquesne, which is why I'm attracted to it.
I don't think I'm being stubborn. I've viewed the curriculum at Duquesne, and both the required courses and electives for the PhD program are appealing to me, and very philosophically/theoretically/historically minded.

There's a professor there I'd really like to work under, though I don't know what the chances of that are.

And, just scanning the titles of the dissertations written by students there makes me very excited about the program.

I should try and get into contact with some current or former students. There don't seem to be many if any on this forum.

The reason I'd like a PhD is that, from the advice I've been given, the LCSW route will not be able to offer me the depth of clinical training I desire.

BTW, a "weak" defense of my choice may be due to the fact that I haven't made one?
 
Jan 23, 2010
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What I meant by listening to advice was doing what you just did. Taking apart what people are saying and either agreeing or disagreeing with it, and stating why. Then, use that information to make an informed decision.

If there is a professor you would like to work with, the best thing you could do is try and make contact with them, even this early in the game. Send an email telling him/her that you are interested in their work and you would like to learn more. That way, if you do decide to go there, you may have someone on the panel that would be willing to vouch for your application to the school. Also, be careful about just scanning the titles of dissertations. If you find something you are interested in, try contacting the person who wrote the dissertation, to get a copy of it (almost everyone has it electronically now).

I'm not trying to be mean or rude, just trying to help!

Good luck. You are an ambitious person and that will get you far!
 
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What erg has to say about hardcore science is not totally applicable to the PhD program at Duquesne, which is why I'm attracted to it.
I don't think I'm being stubborn. I've viewed the curriculum at Duquesne, and both the required courses and electives for the PhD program are appealing to me, and very philosophically/theoretically/historically minded.
I think that he was trying to make the comment about the hard sciences as the requirements for med school. If you want to go into psychiatry, you HAVE to have prereqs and be competitive enough for med school. If you don't want to take hard sciences, you might not be fit for psychiatry.... By the way, people who want to go to med school have been preparing since freshman year and its hard to get all the prereqs done in four years if you haven't started since freshman year, you will have to take time off to do a postbac to get the prereqs done.

If you want to go to Duquesne, it may also be helpful to start now and find out what it takes to get into a PhD program and how competitive it actually is. No you don't have to take as many hard science classes, but you are putting all your eggs in one basket betting on one school. Do what I didn't do, and start your research of programs like Duquesne, read the PhD forum, talk to your advisor early. Start doing research and clinical experience if at all possible EARLY. Don't make a hasty decision because you were unprepared. If you're serious, and you probably are, the responsble thing to do is to get all of your information together well in advanced because people apply year after year and dont get in.
 

erg923

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except for at Duquesne, which takes a human sciences approach.
I trust you are not really this concrete,you're a philosophy major....... I think you know what i was getting at. But again, if you want to spend 8+ years getting you're ph.d, Duquesne sure sounds like a great program to accomplish that goal....
 
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sunlioness

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I have a very high interest in philosophy/theory, AND have the career goal of being a therapist in private practice.
If your goal is to be a therapist in private practice, don't go to medical school. Seriously, it's not worth it. You're going to go $200,000 in debt to spend 4 years learning things that don't remotely apply to what you ultimately want to do. And then the psychotherapy training in most residency programs is not at all extensive. And then you have to contend with the market pressure that pushes psychiatrists to focus on medication management and leave the actual psychotherapy to others. Not to say that there aren't psychiatrists who do psychotherapy. I do myself. But I think it's just not a good idea to subject oneself to medical school if one doesn't actually want to be a physician. And it really sounds like your goals are directed elsewhere.
 
Feb 22, 2010
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The reason I'd like a PhD is that, from the advice I've been given, the LCSW route will not be able to offer me the depth of clinical training I desire.
I want to be clear that I think you and I have a lot in common in terms of intellectual interests and I am not trying to discourage you from applying to whatever programs you're interested in. I am a double major in women's studies (generally focused on cultural studies, critical theory and feminist science studies) and psychology. I am deeply committed to pursuing graduate study in an interdisciplinary way that allows me to unite these interests, but I know I have to be creative about how I go about it.

If Duquesne interests you then you should go for it, but perhaps you might consider some MSW/MS programs in addition. That way you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. With regards to the clinical training, there are dozens of institutes where you can gain additional clinical training after you are liscenced (at whatever level). If you aren't committed to the scientist-practitioner model of a PhD program then the depth of clinical training is irrelevant.

Edited to add: I actually talked to my adviser about Duquesne and she said I needed to talk to the DCT, DGS, and some students to figure out the true depth of the programs clinical training. Even in a human sciences approach, PhD programs invariably sacrifice some depth in clinical training in order to do the research/stats/etc training. You should look at their internship and post doc match rates, find out what kind of placement sites their students end up at, etc.
 
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ToTheLighthouse

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I trust you are not really this concrete,you're a philosophy major....... I think you know what i was getting at. But again, if you want to spend 8+ years getting you're ph.d, Duquesne sure sounds like a great program to accomplish that goal....
So, would you recommend an lcsw with later training should I want more depth?

Also, isn't the length of time not THAT bad since Duquesne's program is said to be MA/PhD?
It seems like the first two years would be laying the groundwork for students like myself who are looking to go into a doctoral program straight from undergrad. no?
 
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ToTheLighthouse

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I want to be clear that I think you and I have a lot in common in terms of intellectual interests and I am not trying to discourage you from applying to whatever programs you're interested in. I am a double major in women's studies (generally focused on cultural studies, critical theory and feminist science studies) and psychology. I am deeply committed to pursuing graduate study in an interdisciplinary way that allows me to unite these interests, but I know I have to be creative about how I go about it.

If Duquesne interests you then you should go for it, but perhaps you might consider some MSW/MS programs in addition. That way you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. With regards to the clinical training, there are dozens of institutes where you can gain additional clinical training after you are liscenced (at whatever level). If you aren't committed to the scientist-practitioner model of a PhD program then the depth of clinical training is irrelevant.

Edited to add: I actually talked to my adviser about Duquesne and she said I needed to talk to the DCT, DGS, and some students to figure out the true depth of the programs clinical training. Even in a human sciences approach, PhD programs invariably sacrifice some depth in clinical training in order to do the research/stats/etc training. You should look at their internship and post doc match rates, find out what kind of placement sites their students end up at, etc.
I'm also considering a PhD in philosophy with later training and licensing at a psychoanalytic institute. I know the institute in Chicago offers a program like this. One in which terminal degree graduates from any discipline can become licensed and certified. That's very tempting to me because focusing on philosophy right now, getting papers published, presenting and so on, feels like something I'd really enjoy doing.
 
Feb 22, 2010
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I'm also considering a PhD in philosophy with later training and licensing at a psychoanalytic institute. I know the institute in Chicago offers a program like this. One in which terminal degree graduates from any discipline can become licensed and certified. That's very tempting to me because focusing on philosophy right now, getting papers published, presenting and so on, feels like something I'd really enjoy doing.
That's great! What kind of licensing do they offer? Bear in mind it probably will not be the same as the license granted by the state to authorize practice. Anyhow, keep yourself open to options like that, because they will probably suit you much better than a traditional PhD.

Also, I hate to keep harping on this but you may find that in the next 2 years of undergrad that your interests change in unpredictable ways. They may not, and I'm not trying to be condescending, but you never know.

What kind of philosophy are you interested in? Have you read any phenomenology or new materialist work? I found that after exploring these sub fields I was much more interested in the sciences in general and in psychology qua science.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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That's great! What kind of licensing do they offer? Bear in mind it probably will not be the same as the license granted by the state to authorize practice. Anyhow, keep yourself open to options like that, because they will probably suit you much better than a traditional PhD.

Also, I hate to keep harping on this but you may find that in the next 2 years of undergrad that your interests change in unpredictable ways. They may not, and I'm not trying to be condescending, but you never know.

What kind of philosophy are you interested in? Have you read any phenomenology or new materialist work? I found that after exploring these sub fields I was much more interested in the sciences in general and in psychology qua science.
Here's a link to the Chicago Institute's program

http://www.chicagoanalysis.org/corst.php

It's actually a six year program...After a PhD.

I'm not sure what kind of licensing it is.

I tried to call tonight. It's 9pm here, and they were closed.

Maybe I'll call tomorrow and ask this question.

Seems like a looong road to licensing though.

People have suggested that I probably won't be interested in most MSW programs.
BUT it's only 2 years plus 2 more licensing, and then you're in practice.

I'm very confused.

The job possibilities with a PhD in philosophy are incredibly slim.
I just don't know.

The thing is the program at Duquesne would seem to satisfy both of my interests at once. So, eight years doesn't seem that long (when compared to the 6-8 of a philosophy PhD, PLUS more and more school should I want to practice therapy).
Duquesne's program seems to combine philosophy and clinical psychology and get me licensed in a relatively short period of time, compared to the above option.

Right now, I'm interested in continental philosophy, more specifically existentialist philosophy, mainly as it pertains to freedom and responsibility on the individual level. I'm also interested but not well-versed in Lacanian psychoanalytic theory.

Performance art, more specifically performance as a therapeutic/transformative act, and its relation to freedom and responsibility are also on my mind at the time.

But you're right, my interests are bound to change, as they always have.

However, my desire to be a psychotherapist has been relatively stable over time. So, we'll see.
 
Feb 22, 2010
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People have suggested that I probably won't be interested in most MSW programs.
BUT it's only 2 years plus 2 more licensing, and then you're in practice.
Well, I'm sure there are aspects of the MSW training that you would not be particularly interested in, but there are others you might enjoy. Here's a list of course descriptions from the NYU MSW program. Take a look and see if it looks like something you could/would be interested in, especially the electives (scroll down for electives):

http://www.nyu.edu/socialwork/our.programs/msw.course.html

You'll have to go through some basic training that you may not be wildly passionate about, but I think there are ways to follow your interests given the right program.

I'm very confused.

The job possibilities with a PhD in philosophy are incredibly slim.
I just don't know.
Hey, that's totally OK. You don't need to know right now. You're exploring what's out there and that's good enough for the stage that you're at now!
 

franklyfrankl

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Hi,
this is actually my first post in student doctor. I was an applicant this year for the Fall 2010 semester.

I decided to post because I was in virtually the same spot as you. As a dual major in philosophy and psychology (first major was philosophy), I was interested in studying the theoretical aspect of psychology, and Duquesne was obviously my first choice. Like you, I was determined to be a therapist and wanted to go for the PhD.

Clinical PhD programs are incredibly competitive to get into, and it was an advice of my clinical psych professor to apply to at least 10 programs. You would think 10 is a lot, but the reality is that you are lucky if you can get into 1 (not you in particular, but everyone).

After looking at many many programs and their descriptions, I realized that no program specifically states that they have an orientation that leans towards the philosophy of psychology, with the exception of one: Duquesne. So I tried another approach to find attractive programs, which was to look for specific professors who have similar interests. With this approach, I found several programs I would feel fine attending (while being surrounded by professors who have different interests, I can still be the "philosopher" of the psychology department).

I applied to 9 PhD programs, and got accepted to 2 PhD and 1 Masters (one school rejected me but offered me a terminal masters degree). Duquesne was not one of them (I didn't even get the interview). I accepted a PhD offer from a school because upon the interview I loved the department, including my professor of interest as well as the students.
While I always had dreams of being a Duquesne student, planning that Pittsburgh was going to be my favorite city, I am still very excited about going to the school that I am going to. From the interview (which was more like a conversation), I realized that I can study exactly what I want to study in that program.

As others have said on this thread, it's a hasty conclusion to say that Duquesne is the only place that suits interests of people like us. If you'd like, I would be more than happy to tell you the schools that I found/going to through PM or even on this thread, as well as anything else that might help you as a fellow philosophy major.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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Hi,
this is actually my first post in student doctor. I was an applicant this year for the Fall 2010 semester.

I decided to post because I was in virtually the same spot as you. As a dual major in philosophy and psychology (first major was philosophy), I was interested in studying the theoretical aspect of psychology, and Duquesne was obviously my first choice. Like you, I was determined to be a therapist and wanted to go for the PhD.

Clinical PhD programs are incredibly competitive to get into, and it was an advice of my clinical psych professor to apply to at least 10 programs. You would think 10 is a lot, but the reality is that you are lucky if you can get into 1 (not you in particular, but everyone).

After looking at many many programs and their descriptions, I realized that no program specifically states that they have an orientation that leans towards the philosophy of psychology, with the exception of one: Duquesne. So I tried another approach to find attractive programs, which was to look for specific professors who have similar interests. With this approach, I found several programs I would feel fine attending (while being surrounded by professors who have different interests, I can still be the "philosopher" of the psychology department).

I applied to 9 PhD programs, and got accepted to 2 PhD and 1 Masters (one school rejected me but offered me a terminal masters degree). Duquesne was not one of them (I didn't even get the interview). I accepted a PhD offer from a school because upon the interview I loved the department, including my professor of interest as well as the students.
While I always had dreams of being a Duquesne student, planning that Pittsburgh was going to be my favorite city, I am still very excited about going to the school that I am going to. From the interview (which was more like a conversation), I realized that I can study exactly what I want to study in that program.

As others have said on this thread, it's a hasty conclusion to say that Duquesne is the only place that suits interests of people like us. If you'd like, I would be more than happy to tell you the schools that I found/going to through PM or even on this thread, as well as anything else that might help you as a fellow philosophy major.
Hey,

I would love whatever information you can give me on PhD programs that also take a more philosophical/theoretical approach.
 

ela

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Hi,
this is actually my first post in student doctor. I was an applicant this year for the Fall 2010 semester.

I decided to post because I was in virtually the same spot as you. As a dual major in philosophy and psychology (first major was philosophy), I was interested in studying the theoretical aspect of psychology, and Duquesne was obviously my first choice. Like you, I was determined to be a therapist and wanted to go for the PhD.

Clinical PhD programs are incredibly competitive to get into, and it was an advice of my clinical psych professor to apply to at least 10 programs. You would think 10 is a lot, but the reality is that you are lucky if you can get into 1 (not you in particular, but everyone).

After looking at many many programs and their descriptions, I realized that no program specifically states that they have an orientation that leans towards the philosophy of psychology, with the exception of one: Duquesne. So I tried another approach to find attractive programs, which was to look for specific professors who have similar interests. With this approach, I found several programs I would feel fine attending (while being surrounded by professors who have different interests, I can still be the "philosopher" of the psychology department).

I applied to 9 PhD programs, and got accepted to 2 PhD and 1 Masters (one school rejected me but offered me a terminal masters degree). Duquesne was not one of them (I didn't even get the interview). I accepted a PhD offer from a school because upon the interview I loved the department, including my professor of interest as well as the students.
While I always had dreams of being a Duquesne student, planning that Pittsburgh was going to be my favorite city, I am still very excited about going to the school that I am going to. From the interview (which was more like a conversation), I realized that I can study exactly what I want to study in that program.

As others have said on this thread, it's a hasty conclusion to say that Duquesne is the only place that suits interests of people like us. If you'd like, I would be more than happy to tell you the schools that I found/going to through PM or even on this thread, as well as anything else that might help you as a fellow philosophy major.

I would love to know some of the other schools you found with programs/people interested in the intersection of philosophy + psych.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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I am bumping this thread because I'd like to know of any PhD programs similar to Duquesne in that they emphasize the philosophical grounds of psychology, qualitative research, psychoanalytic, existential, and phenomenological approaches to psychotherapy.

thank you for all input.

(I also realize that this thread should have originally been posted in the PsyD/PhD forums. Perhaps it can be moved?)
 

Neuropsych2be

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I am a student at Fielding and we have a theoretical/philosophical track. Because Fielding is non-tradational it is possible to design a plan of study that incorporates your interests. A recent graduate of Fielding whom I know, and who also holds a JD degree from Georgetown, teaches at Duquesne. I greatly admire the human sciences approach as refreshing difference from the traditional empirical approach that is necessary as a counterbalance. But, I urge you to spend some time looking at alternatives to Duquesne. You may find that other programs also offer a more philosophic approach. One of the good things about my program is that qualitative research, hermeneutics, post-colonialism, feminism, depth psychology and ethnography are respected and often included in the work we do. These approaches emerge from the fact that some psychological processes are not particularly amenable to quantitative analysis.
 
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Buzzwordsoldier

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I was almost totally in love with the idea of studying at Duquesne, but for four factors:

1) Pittsburgh is one of the major polution hotspots of the nation
2) The average time to completion of the degree is way beyond my comfort level
3) I found but one support/administrative staffperson who seemed truly happy to assist me when I ran into difficulty with my application. All others seemed to be having a bad hair day regardless of the day I called
4) I didn't get in...

As for suggestions,

How about PhD counseling programs -- which are far more likely to emphasize humanistic/existential brands of theory and intervention? Have you looked overseas at programs in critical psychology? Also, it seems there could be lots of alternatives in clinical psychology if you were to sort your search by faculty as opposed to program. But if you want to get far far out there in a critical/integral dimension, TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) has a doctoral level degree which I believe has achieved national accreditation standards -- some of the best counseling sessions I've had have been while on the sharp end of the thin needle. If I had any facility with foreign language I'd have gone this route -- and I did try my hand at Mandarin for half a year both in the US and mainland China...
 

Buzzwordsoldier

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I am a student at Fielding and we have a theoretical/philosophical track. Because Fielding is non-tradational it is possible to design a plan of study that incorporates your interests. A recent graduate of Fielding whom I know, and who also holds a JD degree from Georgetown, teaches at Duquesne. I greatly admire the human sciences approach as refreshing difference from the traditional empirical approach that is necessary as a counterbalance. But, I urge you to spend some time looking at alternatives to Duquesne. You may find that other programs also offer a more philosophic approach. One of the good things about my program is that qualitative research, hermeneutics, post-colonialism, feminism, depth psychology and ethnography are respected and often included in the work we do. These approaches emerge from the fact that some psychological processes are not particularly amenable to quantitative analysis.
Would have applied to Fielding if their structure extended to Oregon!! What up with that?
 

franklyfrankl

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I thought i sent the following message to the original poster but i didnt see it in my 'sent' box so maybe i didn't? anyways, i guess i'll just make it public.


Sorry about not responding earlier. Being admitted has resulted in a certain distance from forums of this sort.

Let me give you a list of schools that I applied to, besides Duquesne. Again, as you know, most of the programs contain faculty members who have a rather philosophical approach, and it's not the case that the programs themselves are philosophical in nature.

1. Fordham University - I was going for the counseling psychology program, whose faculty includes Amelio D’Onofrio. I was specifically interested in the existential approach. The clinical psychology program, which I believe is more academically rigorous, also has Frederick Wertz who seems heavily into existentialism, phenomenology, etc.

2. Teachers College at Columbia, Counseling psychology – Michael Lau has philosophical/theoretical issues in psychology listed as one of his scholarly interests.

3. University of Memphis, Clinical Psychology – Heidi Levitt’s main focus seems to be LGBT-related issues in psychology, but given her interests such as construction of gender, she seems decidedly theoretically oriented.

4. Miami University of Ohio, Clinical psychology – Dr. Larry Leitner’s teachings are based on George Kelly’s personal construct theory. Moreover, he is very much into different theories/methods of mental health treatment that are alternative to the dominant medical approach.

5. University of Detroit Mercy, Clinical Psychology – The whole department has a psychodynamic foundation. In particular, Barry Dauphin’s works are very philosophical in nature; sometimes I feel like reading philosophical texts rather than psychological ones!

6. Arizona State University, Counseling Psychology – Richard Kinnier’s interests include value theory, humanistic/existentialist psychology, etc

7. University of Notre Dame, Clinical Psychology – George Howard presents himself as interested in philosophy of the social sciences as well as counseling theory practice, which seems to be up your alley.

8. University of Tennessee Knoxville, Counseling Psychology – Mark Hector does a lot of phenomenology stuff.

Anyways, I hope that was somewhere close to what you were looking for. Good luck with your search!
 

ToTheLighthouse

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I thought i sent the following message to the original poster but i didnt see it in my 'sent' box so maybe i didn't? anyways, i guess i'll just make it public.


Sorry about not responding earlier. Being admitted has resulted in a certain distance from forums of this sort.

Let me give you a list of schools that I applied to, besides Duquesne. Again, as you know, most of the programs contain faculty members who have a rather philosophical approach, and it's not the case that the programs themselves are philosophical in nature.

1. Fordham University - I was going for the counseling psychology program, whose faculty includes Amelio D’Onofrio. I was specifically interested in the existential approach. The clinical psychology program, which I believe is more academically rigorous, also has Frederick Wertz who seems heavily into existentialism, phenomenology, etc.

2. Teachers College at Columbia, Counseling psychology – Michael Lau has philosophical/theoretical issues in psychology listed as one of his scholarly interests.

3. University of Memphis, Clinical Psychology – Heidi Levitt’s main focus seems to be LGBT-related issues in psychology, but given her interests such as construction of gender, she seems decidedly theoretically oriented.

4. Miami University of Ohio, Clinical psychology – Dr. Larry Leitner’s teachings are based on George Kelly’s personal construct theory. Moreover, he is very much into different theories/methods of mental health treatment that are alternative to the dominant medical approach.

5. University of Detroit Mercy, Clinical Psychology – The whole department has a psychodynamic foundation. In particular, Barry Dauphin’s works are very philosophical in nature; sometimes I feel like reading philosophical texts rather than psychological ones!

6. Arizona State University, Counseling Psychology – Richard Kinnier’s interests include value theory, humanistic/existentialist psychology, etc

7. University of Notre Dame, Clinical Psychology – George Howard presents himself as interested in philosophy of the social sciences as well as counseling theory practice, which seems to be up your alley.

8. University of Tennessee Knoxville, Counseling Psychology – Mark Hector does a lot of phenomenology stuff.

Anyways, I hope that was somewhere close to what you were looking for. Good luck with your search!
Thank you for all these suggestions!

Just wondering, if prescribing privileges for psychologists do ever become widespread, would counseling psychologists be included?
 

Therapist4Chnge

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If they are licensed as a psychologist and complete the req. training....then yes. I wouldn't recommend planning to go this route because getting an NP is a far better bet and is more widely accepted.
 

ToTheLighthouse

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Hi all,
For anyone who may be interested, I e-mailed admissions at Duquesne requesting information on doctoral programs similar to their own.
Here is a list the advisor provided me with:

Thank you for your interest in our program. I am sending you a list of some other Universities that offer similar or somewhat similar programs.

Humanistic Universities

Antioch University
Argosy University
Atlantic University
Avalon’s Archetypal Academy
California Institute if Integral Studies
California School of Professional Psychology
Capella University
Center for Humanistic Studies Graduate School
Duquesne University
Fielding Graduate Institute
Goddard College
Harmony Institute for Psychotherapy and counseling
Holy Names College
Immaculata University
Institute for transpersonal Psychology
John F. Kennedy University
Lesley University
Naropa University
Pacifica Graduate Institute
Pepperdine University
Prescott College for the Liberal Arts and the Environment
Regia University
Ryokan College
Saint Mary’s College of California
Salve Regina University
Saybrooke Graduate School and Research Center
School of Spiritual Psychology
Seattle University
Solinio Village Humanistic Ontosophy University
Sonoma State University
Sophia Center in Culture and Spirituality
Southwestern College
The Union Institiute and University
Universidad Autonoma de la Languna
University of Dallas
University of West Georgia
Vermont College at Montpelier
Walden University
 

erg923

Regional Clinical Officer, Centene Corporation
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Have you guys gotten to the bottom of why it takes their students 2-3 years longer to get their Ph.D.s than the average clincial psych Ph.D student? Thats quite a bit of lost income/earning potential...
 

ToTheLighthouse

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ela. I agree, the program at West Georgia looks great.
I'm not sure: does APA accreditation matter so much for those coming out of such "fringe" programs?

erg: I've got no solid answer to that question. The reasons things I've read are that, a: students take longer finishing their dissertations and, somewhat connected, b: qualitative research can take a long time...
 

ela

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Feb 23, 2010
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Erg,

I do not have a solid answer for that question at this point - I will try to find out.
I have a hunch it does have to do with the nature of the research the students are conducting. I also wonder if the fact that all of the students receive funding and a stipend for the duration of their coursework has something to do with it?

Don't know - and not overly concerned. After all, its all about FIT right?
 

erg923

Regional Clinical Officer, Centene Corporation
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Gaining admittance is about fit, yes, but the point was that, normally, when a program is taking 9 years to pump out a Ph.D, it's BIG red flag. Something is wrong there...maybe its the students, maybe its something with the program and the dissertation requirments, but something is not quite right about that. I don't care what kind of research your doing, if you can't do a dissertation in 2 years, then its too big and grandiose, and you're losing the point of the requirement.

Moreover, those are 3 years one could be out in the working world actually making money...buying a house, starting your family, etc.... that is something that would concern me anyway. I am all for academia and being a good scientist, but no one should be a fan of doing so in their grad program for 9 years making 15k a year. Thats ridiculous.
 
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Markp

Clinical Psychologist
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Hi all,

Humanistic Universities

Antioch University
Argosy University
Atlantic University
Avalon's Archetypal Academy
California Institute if Integral Studies
California School of Professional Psychology
Capella University
Center for Humanistic Studies Graduate School
Duquesne University
Fielding Graduate Institute
Goddard College
Harmony Institute for Psychotherapy and counseling
Holy Names College
Immaculata University
Institute for transpersonal Psychology
John F. Kennedy University
Lesley University
Naropa University
Pacifica Graduate Institute
Pepperdine University
Prescott College for the Liberal Arts and the Environment
Regia University
Ryokan College
Saint Mary's College of California
Salve Regina University
Saybrooke Graduate School and Research Center
School of Spiritual Psychology
Seattle University
Solinio Village Humanistic Ontosophy University
Sonoma State University
Sophia Center in Culture and Spirituality
Southwestern College
The Union Institiute and University
Universidad Autonoma de la Languna
University of Dallas
University of West Georgia
Vermont College at Montpelier
Walden University
Well getting rid of all the NON APA programs is a start.

Antioch University
Argosy University
California School of Professional Psychology
Duquesne University
Fielding Graduate Institute
Immaculata University
John F. Kennedy University
Pepperdine University

I don't know which of these programs I would want to yoke my future too... good luck.

Mark
 

justme08

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Aug 24, 2008
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If you're interested in the humanistic aspect you may want to check out counseling psych programs, many of the faculty in them have a more humanistic orientation.
 
Sep 13, 2011
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Hi,
If it's not too late, I'd like to share my experience as a student/almost graduate of Duquesne's Clinical program.

Re: The length of dissertation. It used to be the case that people spent enormous amounts of time doing grandiose theoretical dissertations. They have recently done alot of work to get people out of the program more quickly. I started in 2005 and will be finishing in December of this year. I am the second to last of those in my cohort. The person after me is likely to be done soon as well. Research is not built into the program (or at least it wasn't during my time there) in the same that it is in other programs, so that may contribute to longer time to graduate. Overall, I don't think it is common for a person to take longer than 6-7 years to graduate. This is consistent with what they claim on their website.

Re: Quality of clinical supervision. I think this is a definite area of strength for the program. I went on to do an internship at the University of Texas Health Science Center and am now in a postdoc at the Menninger Clinic. I think the group of student clinicians and professors I worked with at Duquesne compares very favorably with any of the people I've met in those institutions.

I have other thoughts, but have to go.