I passed no passed my classes for the 2020 spring semester, was that a bad decision?

[Underdog147]

Hello! I'm a sophomore (entering my fifth semester now) pre-medical student and I just finished my fourth semester at my undergraduate institution. My school decided to go default pass no pass grading for Spring 2020 due to covid-19, with graded choices being an option, and I decided to go pass no pass. I've been really concerned that I made a bad decision, as I was taking Organic Chemistry I, with Lab, and opted to go Pass no Pass as I found the transition online with the class very difficult. Having little in-person interaction, and considering that the class was graded on a deflating curve, and considering a situation where people would more easily do well as a result of open resources and cheating, the class became very difficult and it made me feel like the class would not be representative of my skills in a class. Additionally, I had not been doing very well in the class, being at a B- prior to the class going online, and didn't want to risk a C in a major pre-requisite. I was told by advisors and from other people in the pre-medical community that you either do all or nothing, so I pass no passed all of my classes. was this a bad decision? For Context: this is additionally concerning to me because I did not have a very stellar freshman year, recieving a C+ in calculus, and a C- in statistics. I also had to pass no pass physics class my third semester (I plan on taking the calculus-based version of this class in a later semester). My current GPA is at a 3.250. BASED ON MY GPA AND CLASS GRADES ALONE, was my decision to pass no pass a bad decision and will it terminate any chance I have at going to a top50 medical school? I've been at a very powerful upward trend and received a 3.8 my third semester, all help and input is appreciated, thank you!

Transcript (if it helps):
(I removed my Transcript for privacy purposes but I feel like everyone who saw it already gave relevant advice)

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[Damson]

based on what you report your grades were prior to deciding pass/no pass, and considering your current GPA, it was the right call to P/F
at this point, it is will be a quite a climb to raise your GPA to the point necessary to apply top 50. you need at least 3.6+
but you can do it. for sure.
junior and senior year needs to be mostly A's

another thing. the "graded on a deflating curve" comment you made was a little alarming. is this is a high-tier undergrad school that doesn't like giving kids good grades? if this is that school, I stronger consider transferring out. don't play with your undergrad grades. you still got time

 

[Underdog147]

based on what you report your grades were prior to deciding pass/no pass, and considering your current GPA, it was the right call to P/F
at this point, it is will be a quite a climb to raise your GPA to the point necessary to apply top 50. you need at least 3.6+
but you can do it. for sure.
junior and senior year needs to be mostly A's

another thing. the "graded on a deflating curve" comment you made was a little alarming. is this is a high-tier undergrad school that doesn't like giving kids good grades? if this is that school, I stronger consider transferring out. don't play with your undergrad grades. you still got time

Additionally based upon the classes I'm taking and how my school makes upper division courses in biology significantly more easy to receive an "A" grade in, I feel like it's still very realistic for me to end with a 3.75-3.8, as I haven't taken many units and I will only be taking STEM courses from here on out. I came to this potential GPA number based upon the advice and feedback from peers who have gone through their second two years and from academic advisors who specialize in my major. If I do end up with this GPA, will I still be competitive in spite of all the bad marks on my transcript from years 1 and 2?

 

[Damson]

medical schools will be more lenient with P/F for spring 2020. individual schools have different views on whether they will accept P/F, so start checking on Monday. but most schools WILL accept P/F prereqs from Covid-19 semester

if what you say in the second post is the case, then you're good to go. get the prereqs done with, do your dang-darndest best to get an A in them. and please, double-check with multiple peers on the level of difficulty of getting A's in higher-level sciences at U Berkeley. I heard about the grade deflation there. whether they apply to certain classes or professors or all classes, is your job to find out

your undergrad grades should be treated like gold bars. protect them as best as you possibly can

if you end up with 3.75~3.8 at the end of the journey, despite your first two years, you're good to apply anywhere given a 510+ MCAT score

 

[Underdog147]

medical schools will be more lenient with P/F for spring 2020. individual schools have different views on whether they will accept P/F, so start checking on Monday. but most schools WILL accept P/F prereqs from Covid-19 semester

if what you say in the second post is the case, then you're good to go. get the prereqs done with, do your dang-darndest best to get an A in them. and please, double-check with multiple peers on the level of difficulty of getting A's in higher-level sciences at U Berkeley. I heard about the grade deflation there. whether they apply to certain classes or professors or all classes, is your job to find out

your undergrad grades should be treated like gold bars. protect them as best as you possibly can

if you end up with 3.75~3.8 at the end of the journey, despite your first two years, you're good to apply anywhere given a 510+ MCAT score

All of this is very helpful and reassuring, thank you. My intended target schools are UC Davis School of Medicine and UC San Fransisco School of Medicine, both of which are top 50 and one of which is top 10. I really want to make getting into these schools a reality, and often times many people on the forum say that I could be good to apply to just any medical school... So I'd like to relay that a lot of the questions I'm asking are made in context to the possibility of me getting to a good/great medical school, as opposed to one that was not top 50. When considering my grades and decisions under that context, am I still good assuming I do great on the MCAT (shooting for 516-524) and get my GPA up to that intended target zone? I feel like my first two years (mainly my first in fact) were plagued with terrible study habits and poor decisions, rather than a reflection of my intelligence/ability to do well in the courses, if I could go back, I do feel like I'd do much much better. For this reason I believe that getting great grades and a very high MCAT are still possible.

 

[Damson]

first, relax your mind. it's good to aim high, but stressing over the possibility of not getting in won't help. whether you like it or not, there will be good and bad exam results in the future. but you can make sure the vast majority are good results, by
- focus
- keep in touch with peers and professors
- no stress, just long term, consistent work and attention
in fact. focusing on and doing these three things well puts you at the top 1% of premeds. nobody knows what your GPA or MCAT score will be in two years time, but as long as you keep up the good work, you'll surprise yourself

don't try to control your future too tightly. focus on the now / near future

doing well junior/senior year is a green light to any medical school that you're a desirable candidate

 

[Underdog147]

first, relax your mind. it's good to aim high, but stressing over the possibility of not getting in won't help. whether you like it or not, there will be good and bad exam results in the future. but you can make sure the vast majority are good results, by
- focus
- keep in touch with peers and professors
- no stress, just long term, consistent work and attention
in fact. focusing on and doing these three things well puts you at the top 1% of premeds. nobody knows what your GPA or MCAT score will be in two years time, but as long as you keep up the good work, you'll surprise yourself

don't try to control your future too tightly. focus on the now / near future

doing well junior/senior year is a green light to any medical school that you're a desirable candidate

I agree with you in that those three things are elements of my first two years that need to be worked on and my lack of them do cloud my ability to do well in the moment, the only problem is that if I don't take potential future scenarios into consideration, I might lose the opportunity to pivot into another field of health care, or perhaps do some searching for another profession that may catch my liking, assuming what I want to achieve in medicine is no longer reasonable. Because, in all honesty, I don't know how happy I'd be having to go to low-tier or Caribbean medical school, in whatever I'm doing, I'd like to have the opportunity to become the best I can be at it, which means where I go for medical school is just as important to me as getting in at all. I understand that many people in the pre-medical community see it as taboo to set standards so high, but for me, that's the target that I want to see myself in, so I really want to know if getting into a top medical school is still a feasible option if an upward trend were to be legitimately brought about.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Whatever you do, don't go Caribbean. Unless you like crapshoots: you've got a coin flip's chance on a good day of becoming a doctor. Lose, and you could be over a quarter million in debt with no shot at practicing medicine.

 

[M&L]

So, I don't mean to be too harsh, but it is funny how you are asking about your chances of getting into top 50.... Asking this question before even trying to take MCAT makes you sound arrogant or clueless. For now, take one step at a time. Work hard on your classes, prepare for MCAT, take MCAT, and then see how your package looks like. Don't forget about research, volunteering, clinical experience and shadowing.

 

[KnightDoc]

So, I don't mean to be too harsh, but it is funny how you are asking about your chances of getting into top 50.... Asking this question before even trying to take MCAT makes you sound arrogant or clueless. For now, take one step at a time. Work hard on your classes, prepare for MCAT, take MCAT, and then see how your package looks like. Don't forget about research, volunteering, clinical experience and shadowing.

This^^^. It's unclear exactly why you are focusing on T50 since, right now, with a very soft 3.25 (since you needed to take an entire semester P/F voluntarily to achieve it), you are not competitive for ANY MD program. There is no such thing as "terminating" your chances, since you have a long road ahead of you and will have many opportunities to address any gaps in your application, but, to directly answer your question -- no, you did not do yourself any favors by voluntarily taking an entire semester P/F, especially given your GPA to date.

You already took a prereq P/F BEFORE COVID (probably to preserve your 3.25 -- this will also not go unnoticed, and might not even be acceptable to many of the schools you are targeting), and you will be competing with literally thousands of applicants at any school you apply to who did not take Spring 2020 P/F, regardless of how "understanding" schools might be, particularly with respect to applicants whose schools made P/F mandatory for them.

 

[Belphegor]

I agree with you in that those three things are elements of my first two years that need to be worked on and my lack of them do cloud my ability to do well in the moment, the only problem is that if I don't take potential future scenarios into consideration, I might lose the opportunity to pivot into another field of health care, or perhaps do some searching for another profession that may catch my liking, assuming what I want to achieve in medicine is no longer reasonable. Because, in all honesty, I don't know how happy I'd be having to go to low-tier or Caribbean medical school, in whatever I'm doing, I'd like to have the opportunity to become the best I can be at it, which means where I go for medical school is just as important to me as getting in at all. I understand that many people in the pre-medical community see it as taboo to set standards so high, but for me, that's the target that I want to see myself in, so I really want to know if getting into a top medical school is still a feasible option if an upward trend were to be legitimately brought about.

Can anyone else imagine putting any US medical school in the same tier as a Caribbean school?

Like KnightDoc said, at this rate you'll be lucky to get in a US medical school. However, if you can put your ass in gear and start getting A's and get a decent MCAT score then maybe you can get into a top 50. But right now you just need to focus on getting in anywhere.

 

[Shotapp]

You're going to have to retake Physics 8A and Chem 3A & 3AL again for a grade.

Taking a pass for pre-reqs is unacceptable and won't fulfill the requirements for med school (you basically wasted tuition dollars). You shouldn't be worrying about Top 50 med schools cause your GPA sucks right now (you'll be lucky to be accepted to a med school if you don't get your stuff together).
Your third semester is not impressive because you're not consistent in getting good grades (look at semester 2 of your sophomore year...all P).

 

[Underdog147]

I know this may be said very often on the forum, and it's often criticized in that it doesn't hold any weight, but I know I can get everything together and even get top grades from now on. I've learned a lot from the past two years that have been tremendously difficult for me, but I've made very powerful improvement along the way in terms of my ability to study, time management, and overall capacity to handle difficult coursework. I know that I've gained the necessary skills to do well, I can accept that upon further trial I may even be proven wrong, and I may receive grades that make my entry into medical school impossible, and if that happens I'll reconsider medical school entirely. But aside from that possibility, my confidence is higher than ever, and I genuinely feel like I can get into a great medical school, especially considering that my GPA potential realistically can still be a 3.75-3.8, and I haven't even taken my MCAT yet to factor into my overall chances. I am already planning on retaking Physics (taking the calc-based rendition of the class rather than the non-calc based one, as it is more difficult), however I don't believe I'll have to retake ochem, as most medical schools, especially the ones I'm interested in, said they would accept them in light of COVID-19. I understand that it will look bad and will definitely be questioned, but these are risks I'm willing to take as being a physician is something I genuinely am passionate about, a passion I hadn't truly realized until very recently in my life.

 

[M&L]

I know this may be said very often on the forum, and it's often criticized in that it doesn't hold any weight, but I know I can get everything together and even get top grades from now on. I've learned a lot from the past two years that have been tremendously difficult for me, but I've made very powerful improvement along the way in terms of my ability to study, time management, and overall capacity to handle difficult coursework. I know that I've gained the necessary skills to do well, I can accept that upon further trial I may even be proven wrong, and I may receive grades that make my entry into medical school impossible, and if that happens I'll reconsider medical school entirely. But aside from that possibility, my confidence is higher than ever, and I genuinely feel like I can get into a great medical school, especially considering that my GPA potential realistically can still be a 3.75-3.8, and I haven't even taken my MCAT yet to factor into my overall chances. I am already planning on retaking Physics (taking the calc-based rendition of the class rather than the non-calc based one, as it is more difficult), however I don't believe I'll have to retake ochem, as most medical schools, especially the ones I'm interested in, said they would accept them in light of COVID-19. I understand that it will look bad and will definitely be questioned, but these are risks I'm willing to take as being a physician is something I genuinely am passionate about, a passion I hadn't truly realized until very recently in my life.

great! good attitude! so just keep going, work hard on your classes, and try to do as well on MCAT as you possibly can. Then, when you have all your ducks in a row, and have all the metrics, make a very well balanced school list, and see what happens. Good luck

 

[Underdog147]

great! good attitude! so just keep going, work hard on your classes, and try to do as well on MCAT as you possibly can. Then, when you have all your ducks in a row, and have all the metrics, make a very well balanced school list, and see what happens. Good luck

Thank you! I understand this question is really disliked by most people on these threads, but ASSUMING I were to pull everything together and end my undergraduate career with a 3.75 (stem 3.74), additionally do very well on the MCAT, perhaps even receiving a 520+, and have great clinical and research experience, could I still be a serious applicant to good/high-ranked medical schools? Let me explain why I ask this. I'm not saying, "oh I'm just gonna do these super hard and challenging things really easily and go to harvard lol." I'm rather trying to assess the permanence of the damage that has been done to my medical school chances so far, even given absolutely perfect circumstances score-wise, grade-wise, and experience-wise from here on out. I'm not trying to give myself comfort in simply saying I'm going to achieve the impossible, but rather have an objective sense of how bad things are, and how permanently bad they will be, assuming the impossible were to be achieved.

 

[M&L]

Thank you! I understand this question is really disliked by most people on these threads, but ASSUMING I were to pull everything together and end my undergraduate career with a 3.75 (stem 3.74), additionally do very well on the MCAT, perhaps even receiving a 520+, and have great clinical and research experience, could I still be a serious applicant to good/high-ranked medical schools? Let me explain why I ask this. I'm not saying, "oh I'm just gonna do these super hard and challenging things really easily and go to harvard lol." I'm rather trying to assess the permanence of the damage that has been done to my medical school chances so far, even given absolutely perfect circumstances score-wise, grade-wise, and experience-wise from here on out. I'm not trying to give myself comfort in simply saying I'm going to achieve the impossible, but rather have an objective sense of how bad things are, and how permanently bad they will be, assuming the impossible were to be achieved.

Look, nothing is permanent yet. Don't let anyone tell you that. There is a reason threads like Goro's guide for reinvention, and others, exist. Just pull yourself together one day at a time, and you will be ok. Also, - I am not trying to be mean, I swear... But don't talk to anyone else like that ))) It sounds really obnoxious, and off-putting )), I know you are really stressed, we have all been there. Just say to people that you are "doing your best and you'll see what happens" when they ask you questions. Don't EVER tell anyone about your desire to go to top - [insert the number] till you actually interviewed there and have an acceptance. Plus it sort of makes it sound like you are putting other schools down. When, in reality, at this point you seriously know NOTHING about medical schools. So, besides prestige of the name and USNEWS ranking you seriously don't know that a good school is, even if it ran you over with a truck.
Anyway, stay humble, stop mentioning school names, stop asking if you are competitive TILL YOU FINISH ALL PREREQS AND GET MCAT, then humbly post your stats and ECs and ask for an advice on the school list. GynGyn and Goro and the two well known pros in helping with school lists, personally I owe @gyngyn everything. I was accepted to 4 out of 5 schools I interviewed at, and every single one was from the list gyngyn suggested.....

 

[Underdog147]

Look, nothing is permanent yet. Don't let anyone tell you that. There is a reason threads like Goro's guide for reinvention, and others, exist. Just pull yourself together one day at a time, and you will be ok. Also, - I am not trying to be mean, I swear... But don't talk to anyone else like that ))) It sounds really obnoxious, and off-putting )), I know you are really stressed, we have all been there. Just say to people that you are "doing your best and you'll see what happens" when they ask you questions. Don't EVER tell anyone about your desire to go to top - [insert the number] till you actually interviewed there and have an acceptance. Plus it sort of makes it sound like you are putting other schools down. When, in reality, at this point you seriously know NOTHING about medical schools. So, besides prestige of the name and USNEWS ranking you seriously don't know that a good school is, even if it ran you over with a truck.
Anyway, stay humble, stop mentioning school names, stop asking if you are competitive TILL YOU FINISH ALL PREREQS AND GET MCAT, then humbly post your stats and ECs and ask for an advice on the school list. GynGyn and Goro and the two well known pros in helping with school lists, personally I owe @gyngyn everything. I was accepted to 4 out of 5 schools I interviewed at, and every single one was from the list gyngyn suggested.....

Okay I understand. It's just that I have no gauge in understanding what makes a medical school objectively better than another other than USNEWS or sources similar to it, and they've kind of been ingrained in me, for better or for worse. My intent is never to talk down to anyone, but my concern with the supposed "ranking" of the medical school I go to isn't prestige or arrogance, but rather what the legitimate differences it'll impose on my life will be. Does the ranking of a medical school matter when determining what residency somebody enters? As somebody who would like to eventually be competitive for residency, I have to think about the now and if the medical school I go to plays a role in if I can have an adequate chance at any residency I eventually find interesting. What factors play into somebody getting into a more competitive residency? As step 1 just became pass/fail I'm getting increasingly worried that medical school "ranking" will become more important in making decisions like that.

 

[M&L]

Okay I understand. It's just that I have no gauge in understanding what makes a medical school objectively better than another other than USNEWS or sources similar to it, and they've kind of been ingrained in me, for better or for worse. My intent is never to talk down to anyone, but my concern with the supposed "ranking" of the medical school I go to isn't prestige or arrogance, but rather what the legitimate differences it'll impose on my life will be. Does the ranking of a medical school matter when determining what residency somebody enters? As somebody who would like to eventually be competitive for residency, I have to think about the now and if the medical school I go to plays a role in if I can have an adequate chance at any residency I eventually find interesting. What factors play into somebody getting into a more competitive residency? As step 1 just became pass/fail I'm getting increasingly worried that medical school "ranking" will become more important in making decisions like that.

Ok, I think you have a bit of a … wrong understanding of the situation here.... It will sound harsh, but I feel like I need to do a bit of a public service here: forget about comparing medical schools till you actually take all classes, and MCAT. Statistically, majority of successful applicants get only into 1 or 2 schools tops... SUCCESSFUL applicants. A lot of people, before applying, think that it goes like this: 1) you choose the school, 2) you apply, 3) you interview, 4) you get in... WROOOONNNNGG.
In reality it is like this: 1) you apply everywhere that could potentially fit, 2) some schools invite you to interview, 3) some offer you a spot, 4) FROM THOSE you choose where you want to go. If you even try to go about comparing schools now, you will either get depressed, or overinflate your ego, or just come off as an arrogant jerk.

As far as residency.... I am a rising M2, so I am far from residency, so I might not be the best person to advice (and I am a CURRENT student... so maybe you shouldn't worry about it yet??). Now, what I do know: I was fortunate to have 6 interview invitations, 5 attended, out of which I had 4 acceptances and 1 WL that I withdrew from when I got my top choice. So, what I learnt through this experience: schools ARE different. There are "primary care" schools and "research" schools. There are urban and rural schools. There are primary schools that do research and research schools that are decent in primary care. I will just share what are the things that, in my opinion, should matter to YOU as a student before committing yourself to a school for 4 years of your life (so, lets say you got accepted to several schools and you are choosing between them)

1) look at match list, several years deep. Where did the graduates match? are there any bright names on the list? Where did they match geographically? I rejected one of the schools because its match list was pretty much completely in the southern part of the US, and I want to live on the east coast, for example.
2) Google "research": are there any big research projects? labs? big research names? whats going on?
3) What is an average step score in the school? is it suspiciously low? why?
4) is class attendance mandatory or not? in my school lecture attendance Is optional. All lectures are recorded. This is incredibly useful.
5) is the school pass fail? you'd better hope it is!
6) where are the 3rd and 4th year rotations? are they in smaller community hospitals scattered in the region? or are they in big hospital centers? I rejected one of the schools because the rotations were very much scattered, and I wouldn't have any control over it. I would actually have to move for some of them. And they were in smaller hospitals. Ask yourself this question: what would the complexity of the cases be? if it is a small community hospital, it is reasonable to assume that you would not see the complexity of the cases of trauma 1 center. For me it mattered. If you want to do rural primary care though, - you probably WANT to be in a smaller community hospital. So, it all depends on the goals.
7) what is the remediation policy? or, in other words, what happens if you fail an exam? some schools do not allow retakes at all. You'd better hope you do well enough on other exams or you fail the course and have to remediate in summer.... My school allows retakes, - no big deal.
8) what is the cost? Is the private school or out of state with 60-70K a year worth it vs 30K in-state school? think
9) what is the overall "vibe"? when you went there for an interview, did students that you pass in the hallways seem happy? There were schools I went to where literally, - no one was even laughing or smiling. Of course, admissions was trying to make a good impression, but students seemed so depressed.... In my school, for example, whenever you walk down the hallway, there is so much energy, laughter, loudness, movement...

so, these are the things you would be able to find out before starting medical school,, that, in my opinion, would directly determine the quality and character of your education. so, think about those. And if you get accepted to only 1 school, - be grateful. Be proud of yourself. You can make an amazing career no matter what U.S. medical school you graduate from. It all depends on your hard work and work ethics.

 

[Isoval]

I'm going to break the mold here and not be as nice as some of the other people in this thread.

I'm going to be straight with you:

I don't think this was the best move, and I especially don't think that doing it with all of your classes was a good idea, and that's for a wide variety of reasons, which I'll outline.
- Most schools see P/F as equivalent to a C. Unless you were bound to make a C- or a C to begin with, this was not a good decision.
- The reason that schools offer P/F grades during these trying times are for extraneous circumstances owing to the virus. After reading your post, it sounds like your decision hinged primarily on GPA protection. Schools don't like that. They really don't like that.
- Some schools will not accept P/F grades to fulfill prerequisite classes.
- Your other classes, which you changed to P/F, would have (I assume) helped to raise your GPA; you've wasted a good opportunity to bump your GPA up to a 3.3 or a 3.4, maybe even a 3.5 depending on how you were doing in other classes. While I admit it looks less bad that you P/Fed all of your classes (less like GPA protection), I still think this was a poor move.

I won't ream you on the dreams of a T50, but I will say I think it's misguided at this point in time as many others have pointed out. I don't think it's impossible based on your current position, but you a) have a huge uphill battle and b) are missing over tons of what will constitute your application - the volunteering, leadership, research, etc. that you will/won't do in the next two years and most importantly, your MCAT.

Also, Caribbean should be off the table until you've screwed up enough to have no chance at even the worst DO schools. A recent felony. A severe IA, such as plagiarism. Failing out of an SMP. Those are some of the only reasons you should consider a Caribbean school, and even then, I would only recommend it on a case-by-case basis. Caribbean is extremely dangerous both financially, mentally, and match-wise.

 

[KatsuCurry]

If you have a 3.25 now how can you possibly get a 3.8 by graduation? You have 3 graded semesters, so assuming you have 4 semesters left and you get a 4.0 in all of them, that's probably a 3.65 ((3.25*3+4*4)/7 )? That's not to mention it's probably unrealistic to get 4.0 from here on out given your past performance.

That being said, it's good to aim high, but as others have said, I think that your mindset is off right now. Strong academic marks are rarely earned when they're viewed as a means to an end, which is what seems to be your mindset "I need these grades to get into a top medical school". The most successful (academically) people I know just focus on learning the material, relating concepts to one another, and thinking about how class material translates to real-life practice. You're wasting brain space at this point by just focusing on medical school rankings. Take it one step at a time and when you have a finalized GPA and MCAT, take a look at what you've accomplished and make your school list then.

Also, unless you're trying to go into academic (research is your life) medicine, the ranking of your school frankly doesn't matter. Basically all M.D. schools have 95%+ match rate and most D.O schools have a 90%+ match rate.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I might lose the opportunity to pivot into another field of health care, or perhaps do some searching for another profession that may catch my liking, assuming what I want to achieve in medicine is no longer reasonable. Because, in all honesty, I don't know how happy I'd be having to go to low-tier or Caribbean medical school, in whatever I'm doing, I'd like to have the opportunity to become the best I can be at it, which means where I go for medical school is just as important to me as getting in at all.

being a physician is something I genuinely am passionate about, a passion I hadn't truly realized until very recently in my life.

These two sentiments are not compatible with one another. Choose one.

Is being a physician your passion or not? If it is, then you need to be OK with getting there in whatever form that takes, including “low-tier” MD or DO. That you conflated low-tier MD with Caribbean schools indicates to me that you’ve done very little research into this career path you claim to be so passionate about. A cardiologist from UCSF and a cardiologist from Nowhere State U have the same earnings potential post-residency/fellowship.

If you would rather not be a doctor than attend a low-ranked MD or DO program, then I’d cut your losses now and choose a new educational goal. You’ll save yourself lots of stress and heartache. Don’t pursue this path unless you’re 100% committed.

Go find a GPA calculator (easily available via Google) and put in all your current grades and calculate what your graduating GPA will be if you earn 4.0s from here on out. I don’t think it’s possible to get up in the 3.8 range from where you are, unless you have tons of credits left to take. But you need to actually do the math. Come back here and report once you’ve done this work, and we can better advise you.

Lots of people with near-perfect GPAs and MCAT scores apply to UCs/T10s/T50s. Not all get in. What have you done in the way of research (many top-ranked schools have a heavy research focus and like to see candidates with publications and 100s of lab hours), shadowing, clinical experience, community service, leadership etc. to make yourself attractive to top-ranked programs?

 

[Shotapp]

I might have sounded harsh in my post because I was once in your shoes and I wished I had found sdn right from the beginning of college. Don't dig further into the hole you're already in. Learn to be humble and please don't take calculus based physics just because it's harder (it's unnecessary and you might get a bad grade based on your performance history). Good luck

 

[jhmmd]

These two sentiments are not compatible with one another. Choose one.

Is being a physician your passion or not? If it is, then you need to be OK with getting there in whatever form that takes, including “low-tier” MD or DO. That you conflated low-tier MD with Caribbean schools indicates to me that you’ve done very little research into this career path you claim to be so passionate about. A cardiologist from UCSF and a cardiologist from Nowhere State U have the same earnings potential post-residency/fellowship.

If you would rather not be a doctor than attend a low-ranked MD or DO program, then I’d cut your losses now and choose a new educational goal. You’ll save yourself lots of stress and heartache. Don’t pursue this path unless you’re 100% committed.

Go find a GPA calculator (easily available via Google) and put in all your current grades and calculate what your graduating GPA will be if you earn 4.0s from here on out. I don’t think it’s possible to get up in the 3.8 range from where you are, unless you have tons of credits left to take. But you need to actually do the math. Come back here and report once you’ve done this work, and we can better advise you.

Lots of people with near-perfect GPAs and MCAT scores apply to UCs/T10s/T50s. Not all get in. What have you done in the way of research (many top-ranked schools have a heavy research focus and like to see candidates with publications and 100s of lab hours), shadowing, clinical experience, community service, leadership etc. to make yourself attractive to top-ranked programs?

Agree w/this 100%

 

[Underdog147]

Okay, I'd like to thank you all for your input. I love it when people with experience in this process provide very honest and legitimate feedback, even if it may be hard to hear, I'd hate for anybody to tell me a situation was okay, even when they knew it wasn't. I've done a lot of soul searching, actually managed to shadow some more doctors, and I feel like I want to continue on this track. I still feel like medical school rank is valuable however, as with the recent act of Step 1 becoming P/NP, if one truly wants to have all the different options of medicine open to them, I feel like we should respect that medical school rank may indeed become more important moving forward, however I could be wrong. With that being said, I do regret my decisions. I know I can do better, and am taking summer classes right now, (clinical internship was cancelled), and actually received an A on my first physics II midterm, I know I can improve, and get a solid upward trend. After using a GPA calculator, considering units I can still take at my University, putting together a packed schedule, all the while still being realistic, I can receive a maximum GPA of a 3.775 (STEM gpa 3.759) this includes summer coursework, much of which I plan to take side-by side with other future activities. In spite of all of this, I have one major concern left on my shoulders. When medical schools see my P/F grade from my third semester, and my default P/F grades from the COVID 2020 spring semester, I believe this will give them the impression that I run away from challenges in face of adversity, a sentiment I can't blame them for. Although it was this personality trait that led to some of those past decisions, one of which I am developing from, I don't know how I can relay that to the admissions committee, and feel like it will hard to overlook. I feel like with those pass fail grades, i could have a 4.0 and a 526 MCAT and that personality trait, running away from adversity, would still seem like a present part of me. What your guys' thoughts on all of this? What do you recommend I do in the future that will realistically convince medical schools that I no longer run away from challenges, I am ready for the curriculum, and can accomplish any task they ask of me? I understand I don't know everything about this process, that's why I'm here, and I am willing to accept criticism on anything I've said. I should have probably mentioned this earlier, but here are my extra-circulars:

1. I have 50 hours of shadowing several different kinds of doctors: ER doctor, anesthesiologist, and cardiovascular surgeon. I plan on shadowing a D.O. primary care specialist next spring.
2. I'm doing research starting next semester (online) in topics regarding clinical psychology and have been talking to many professors about writing my own literary review and having it published. I have research scheduled for next summer in another clinically related topic at Stanford. (I'd like to not share too much information)
3. I currently preside over two organizations, both of which I individually founded, one that aims to redirect surplus US medical supplies to a particular foreign country, (again, don't want to share too much info on the forums just yet), and another student association for my particular ethnic background, the latter of which currently operates at 9 different universities in my state.
4. I am part of another on-campus organization that also allows me to volunteer my time in redistributing surplus medical supplies to foreign nations, of which has a position I plan on running for.
5. There are other, non-medically related activities that I participate in myself, however I don't know how concerning they'd be to med school, while not wanting to name them specifically, they are on the same scope of importance as things like dance, debate, etc.

6. I plan on doing more, looking for guidance, thank you all again

 

[GreenDuck12]

For starters, stop worrying about medical school rank. 50% of all matriculating medical students get a *single* acceptance. This means most folks don’t get to choose, Step 1 going p/f is going to be a non issue. PDs have said they will look more closely at other step scores, clinical grades, and LORs. It’s more important what you do in medical school instead of where you go to medical school. Look at the match lists of no name state schools and you will see plenty of highly ranked residencies. Also look at the match lists from highly ranked powerhouse medical schools and you will see plenty of folks match to non competitive residencies. It’s about what you do once you get there that matters.

You can demonstrate you are a serious student by being a serious student. Take classes and excel in them. Earn strong recommendations from your professors because of your engagement and mastery of the material.

You can demonstrate you are serious about becoming a doctor by serving others in clinical settings and in non clinical settings.

One thing you need to learn is to focus on the things you can control. Let the other things like medical school reputation or rank go.

 

[KnightDoc]

Okay, I'd like to thank you all for your input. I love it when people with experience in this process provide very honest and legitimate feedback, even if it may be hard to hear, I'd hate for anybody to tell me a situation was okay, even when they knew it wasn't. I've done a lot of soul searching, actually managed to shadow some more doctors, and I feel like I want to continue on this track. I still feel like medical school rank is valuable however, as with the recent act of Step 1 becoming P/NP, if one truly wants to have all the different options of medicine open to them, I feel like we should respect that medical school rank may indeed become more important moving forward, however I could be wrong. With that being said, I do regret my decisions. I know I can do better, and am taking summer classes right now, (clinical internship was cancelled), and actually received an A on my first physics II midterm, I know I can improve, and get a solid upward trend. After using a GPA calculator, considering units I can still take at my University, putting together a packed schedule, all the while still being realistic, I can receive a maximum GPA of a 3.775 (STEM gpa 3.759) this includes summer coursework, much of which I plan to take side-by side with other future activities. In spite of all of this, I have one major concern left on my shoulders. When medical schools see my P/F grade from my third semester, and my default P/F grades from the COVID 2020 spring semester, I believe this will give them the impression that I run away from challenges in face of adversity, a sentiment I can't blame them for. Although it was this personality trait that led to some of those past decisions, one of which I am developing from, I don't know how I can relay that to the admissions committee, and feel like it will hard to overlook. I feel like with those pass fail grades, i could have a 4.0 and a 526 MCAT and that personality trait, running away from adversity, would still seem like a present part of me. What your guys' thoughts on all of this? What do you recommend I do in the future that will realistically convince medical schools that I no longer run away from challenges, I am ready for the curriculum, and can accomplish any task they ask of me? I understand I don't know everything about this process, that's why I'm here, and I am willing to accept criticism on anything I've said. I should have probably mentioned this earlier, but here are my extra-circulars:

1. I have 50 hours of shadowing several different kinds of doctors: ER doctor, anesthesiologist, and cardiovascular surgeon. I plan on shadowing a D.O. primary care specialist next spring.
2. I'm doing research starting next semester (online) in topics regarding clinical psychology and have been talking to many professors about writing my own literary review and having it published. I have research scheduled for next summer in another clinically related topic at Stanford. (I'd like to not share too much information)
3. I currently preside over two organizations, both of which I individually founded, one that aims to redirect surplus US medical supplies to a particular foreign country, (again, don't want to share too much info on the forums just yet), and another student association for my particular ethnic background, the latter of which currently operates at 9 different universities in my state.
4. I am part of another on-campus organization that also allows me to volunteer my time in redistributing surplus medical supplies to foreign nations, of which has a position I plan on running for.
5. There are other, non-medically related activities that I participate in myself, however I don't know how concerning they'd be to med school, while not wanting to name them specifically, they are on the same scope of importance as things like dance, debate, etc.

6. I plan on doing more, looking for guidance, thank you all again

You are basically asking a question that has no answer!! You know what you did, you know why you did it, and you can't change it. All you can do is do your best going forward, and not take any more classes P/F. You're ignoring the elephant in the room -- it's not that you run from challenges because you voluntarily took 6 classes P/F (including 2 pre-COVID) -- it's that you have a 3.25 in spite of that. Your problem now is way more the 3.25 than the Ps.

If you have a 4.0/526, and you retake the P/F prereqs, you'll explain how you learned from your past mistakes, and you'll be fine. On the other hand, if you keep getting B- and C grades, it honestly won't matter whether or not you take classes P/F (or, put another way, whether or not you run from challenges), because you'll never be competitive for the type of school you are targeting.

If you end up close to your projected 3.7, you will definitely have a shot, depending on the rest of your application. Among other reasons, many schools love upward trends, which you will have if you produce from this point forward.

But you should also realize that whatever GPA you end up with will have an asterisk next to it because many schools will impute Cs to your Ps, even though that won't be reflected in your AMCAS calculated GPA. So, your 3.77 won't be viewed the same as another 3.77 with no Ps. In fact, some schools might even recalculate you to whatever your GPA would be with 6 additional Cs. One voluntary random P (or, for that matter, C) is overlooked because it wouldn't make a difference. Six, not so much. No free lunch!!!

I get that you're not only counting on working smarter, you're also counting on grading getting easier as you take higher level classes. I hope that works out for you.

It's that simple. There is no magic piece of advice that is going to give you absolution for past mistakes. You just have to do better and then use the application to explain what you learned from your journey. Good luck!!!

 

[Underdog147]

You are basically asking a question that has no answer!! You know what you did, you know why you did it, and you can't change it. All you can do is do your best going forward, and not take any more classes P/F. You're ignoring the elephant in the room -- it's not that you run from challenges because you voluntarily took 6 classes P/F (including 2 pre-COVID) -- it's that you have a 3.25 in spite of that. Your problem now is way more the 3.25 than the Ps.

If you have a 4.0/526, and you retake the P/F prereqs, you'll explain how you learned from your past mistakes, and you'll be fine. On the other hand, if you keep getting B- and C grades, it honestly won't matter whether or not you take classes P/F (or, put another way, whether or not you run from challenges), because you'll never be competitive for the type of school you are targeting.

If you end up close to your projected 3.7, you will definitely have a shot, depending on the rest of your application. Among other reasons, many schools love upward trends, which you will have if you produce from this point forward.

But you should also realize that whatever GPA you end up with will have an asterisk next to it because many schools will impute Cs to your Ps, even though that won't be reflected in your AMCAS calculated GPA. So, your 3.77 won't be viewed the same as another 3.77 with no Ps. In fact, some schools might even recalculate you to whatever your GPA would be with 6 additional Cs. One voluntary random P (or, for that matter, C) is overlooked because it wouldn't make a difference. Six, not so much. No free lunch!!!

I get that you're not only counting on working smarter, you're also counting on grading getting easier as you take higher level classes. I hope that works out for you.

It's that simple. There is no magic piece of advice that is going to give you absolution for past mistakes. You just have to do better and then use the application to explain what you learned from your journey. Good luck!!!

I spoke with some admissions committee officers, some present and some former, who said P grades are not recalculated to C grades, or even viewed as such, they're seen as a P in the decision making room, which with it carries it's own set of problems. My school has a mechanic where if your actual grade was reported to campus (which 90% of the time it is), you can opt to put the received grade on your transcript when it is sent to schools, although the grade will still be a P, there will be an astrick that shows the actual grade you received, I am still considering doing this, although still weighing the pros and cons of the decision. Where have you been told that schools individually recalculate Pass Fail grades? Also considering that 4 of those 6 classes were taken during the COVID semester, one of which schools already said they'd be lenient towards, I have great doubt they'll see those 4 P classes as though it was just a regular P.

 

[Medical_studies]

You can be a great physician if you focus one day at a time and forget about the top 50 thing as others have said.

You are completely in control over whether you get A/A- in the rest of your classes, so a chance at med school will be determined by how you spend the hours in each day over over the next two years; the past is the past.

Even if you're gpa is not high enough after the A's, there's always an SMP program if you are determined enough. The fact that you were accepted to Cal Berkeley alone shows that if you have the right mindset, you can live a truly wonderful and meaningful life. You are among the truly elite young minds in this country. Your future is unlimited if you believe in yourself and are focused.

If you are determined enough, absolutely any medical specialty is still open to you; just remember, every hour you spend not studying/shadowing/volunteering, there's is somebody somewhere in the United States who is doing one of those things and will be in the same applicant pool you will be. As you have probably learned, you cannot have "off" days or even hours. Sorry, probably won't read the replies, but rooting for you!

 

[KnightDoc]

I spoke with some admissions committee officers, some present and some former, who said P grades are not recalculated to C grades, or even viewed as such, they're seen as a P in the decision making room, which with it carries it's own set of problems. My school has a mechanic where if your actual grade was reported to campus (which 90% of the time it is), you can opt to put the received grade on your transcript when it is sent to schools, although the grade will still be a P, there will be an astrick that shows the actual grade you received, I am still considering doing this, although still weighing the pros and cons of the decision. Where have you been told that schools individually recalculate Pass Fail grades? Also considering that 4 of those 6 classes were taken during the COVID semester, one of which schools already said they'd be lenient towards, I have great doubt they'll see those 4 P classes as though it was just a regular P.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear -- I didn't mean to say that anyone would do a formal recalculation. I meant what you are saying -- that they are taken note of when looking at the AMCAS GPA. That's the delusion that premeds engage in -- that by masking a C with a P, they are "saving" their GPAs with no consequence.

It's not a formal thing, and I'm sorry for leading you to believe that it might be, but the result is the same. A 3.77 with 6 Ps does not equal a 3.77 with none. And, in fact, Ps are considered to be Cs, because most people don't bother to mask As or Bs. If you did, in fact, receive Cs, it doesn't matter whether or not you opt to put the grades on your transcript, so there is no reason to bother. If you had anything better, though, you should have them put on your transcript, since that will only help you. You should definitely ask one of the adcom experts about this, but I would think if a letter grade is reported on your transcript it will be calculated by AMCAS in your GPA, regardless of whether or not you also have a P with an asterisk. AMCAS recalculates GPAs for med schools precisely to eliminate this type of difference in how UGs do the calculation.

With respect to schools being lenient during COVID, it really depends both on the UG and the med school. Some UGs made P/F mandatory, so med schools will certainly be lenient in those cases. Some med schools have indeed said they will be lenient for Spring 2020 under the circumstances. But others have said they expect letter grades if you had a choice. Since UC Berkeley is not exactly some obscure UG, you can be sure the med schools will know that you opted in voluntarily, even though it might otherwise look like it was mandatory since all of your grades are Ps.

Again, for what it's worth, you should strongly consider putting your cart before your horse. Your issue right now is a 3.25 halfway through UG, with 6 Ps. The 3.25 right now is a much bigger obstacle to a top med school admission than a few Ps that might or might not be considered Cs. You will be competing with literally thousands of applicants at all of these schools who will look similar to you, except for the fact that their GPAs will be 4.0, 3.9, 3.8, etc. with zero Ps.

My advice would be to stop obsessing on this right now, go get your 4.0 over the next two years, and then tell your story about how you overcame your academic struggles during the great 2020 Pandemic. If you cannot do that, how the Ps are treated will be irrelevant. Also, if you don't already know, you're going to need at least one gap year because your GPA cannot possibly be good enough after just another two semesters to be competitive where you want to apply.

 

[Underdog147]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear -- I didn't mean to say that anyone would do a formal recalculation. I meant what you are saying -- that they are taken note of when looking at the AMCAS GPA. That's the delusion that premeds engage in -- that by masking a C with a P, they are "saving" their GPAs with no consequence.

It's not a formal thing, and I'm sorry for leading you to believe that it might be, but the result is the same. A 3.77 with 6 Ps does not equal a 3.77 with none. And, in fact, Ps are considered to be Cs, because most people don't bother to mask As or Bs. If you did, in fact, receive Cs, it doesn't matter whether or not you opt to put the grades on your transcript, so there is no reason to bother. If you had anything better, though, you should have them put on your transcript, since that will only help you.

With respect to schools being lenient during COVID, it really depends both on the UG and the med school. Some UGs made P/F mandatory, so med schools will certainly be lenient in those cases. Some med schools have indeed said they will be lenient for Spring 2020 under the circumstances. But others have said they expect letter grades if you had a choice. Since UC Berkeley is not exactly some obscure UG, you can be sure the med schools will know that you opted in voluntarily, even though it might otherwise look like it was mandatory since all of your grades are Ps.

Again, for what it's worth, you should strongly consider putting your cart before your horse. Your issue right now is a 3.25 halfway through UG, with 6 Ps. The 3.25 right now is a much bigger obstacle to a top med school admission than a few Ps that might or might not be considered Cs. You will be competing with literally thousands of applicants at all of these schools who will look similar to you, except for the fact that their GPAs will be 4.0, 3.9, 3.8, etc. with zero Ps.

My advice would be to stop obsessing on this right now, go get your 4.0 over the next two years, and then tell your story about how you overcame your academic struggles during the great 2020 Pandemic. If you cannot do that, how the Ps are treated will be irrelevant. Also, if you don't already know, you're going to need at least one gap year because your GPA cannot possibly be good enough after just another two semesters to be competitive where you want to apply.

UC Berkeley was in a bit of a unique situation, it made all the grades Default Pass Fail, and we had to manually opt for the university to change some or all of them back. This made a lot of professors, including some for pre-med classes, change grade distributions to keep this in mind, and some did absolutely insane things like changing the grade average to a C, effectively forcing people to take the P option. In spite of this I actually received an A in three of my four classes except Organic Chemistry I (Chem 3A) which had a professor who significantly changed the grade distribution to give more people C's than usual. I think my grade in the class was a C+ or a B-, one of the two. They did this at the guidance of the University, who strongly encouraged the Pass option, almost to the extent that some classes forced it. Before Covid I had an B- to a B in Ochem, so take that into consideration.

 

[KnightDoc]

UC Berkeley was in a bit of a unique situation, it made all the grades Default Pass Fail, and we had to manually opt for the university to change some or all of them back. This made a lot of professors, including some for pre-med classes, change grade distributions to keep this in mind, and some did absolutely insane things like changing the grade average to a C, effectively forcing people to take the P option. In spite of this I actually received an A in three of my four classes except Organic Chemistry I (Chem 3A) which had a professor who significantly changed the grade distribution to give more people C's than usual. I think my grade in the class was a C+ or a B-, one of the two. They did this at the guidance of the University, who strongly encouraged the Pass option, almost to the extent that some classes forced it. Before Covid I had an B- to a B in Ochem, so take that into consideration.

I guess it's too late to switch back? Also, I guess it doesn't matter if you can opt to also have the grades appear on your transcript alongside the Ps. Still, why on earth would you leave your As as default Ps? Just to mask a single B- or C+? This honestly makes no sense, because, even with the C+, your GPA would now be significantly higher if you had letter grades for your last semester! You need to do whatever your need to do to get those As back on your transcript!!!!!! I'll bet just about everyone on here who read your OP assumed you totally messed up your Spring semester, but all you ended up doing was erasing a 3.58 GPA semester from a 3.25 GPA transcript.

My school did the opposite of yours, defaulting to letter grades but allowing us to change any to P/F. NOBODY even considered taking a P unless they were masking a C, and, even then, lots of people figured it was pointless to mask the C so they left it alone. Of course, if someone had multiple Cs, they had nothing to lose by taking the Ps, so they did so.

 

[Underdog147]

I guess it's too late to switch back? Also, I guess it doesn't matter if you can opt to also have the grades appear on your transcript alongside the Ps. Still, why on earth would you leave your As as default Ps? Just to mask a single B- or C+? This honestly makes no sense, because, even with the C+, your GPA would now be significantly higher if you had letter grades for your last semester! You need to do whatever your need to do to get those As back on your transcript!!!!!! I'll bet just about everyone on here who read your OP assumed you totally messed up your Spring semester, but all you ended up doing was erasing a 3.58 GPA semester from a 3.25 GPA transcript.

My school did the opposite of yours, defaulting to letter grades but allowing us to change any to P/F. NOBODY even considered taking a P unless they were masking a C, and, even then, lots of people figured it was pointless to mask the C so they left it alone. Of course, if someone had multiple Cs, they had nothing to lose by taking the Ps, so they did so.

I can still have them appear on my transcript, I ran the math and my net GPA would be the same by the end of my college career if I had put them in my transcript, so GPA wise it wouldn’t make a difference, other than maybe having it increase in the here and now rather than wait for several years. If I did put them on my transcript, despite a P still showing up, would that circumvent any thoughts that I got a C? I feel like I still should.

 

[deleted1017883]

Okay, I'd like to thank you all for your input. I love it when people with experience in this process provide very honest and legitimate feedback, even if it may be hard to hear, I'd hate for anybody to tell me a situation was okay, even when they knew it wasn't. I've done a lot of soul searching, actually managed to shadow some more doctors, and I feel like I want to continue on this track. I still feel like medical school rank is valuable however, as with the recent act of Step 1 becoming P/NP, if one truly wants to have all the different options of medicine open to them, I feel like we should respect that medical school rank may indeed become more important moving forward, however I could be wrong. With that being said, I do regret my decisions. I know I can do better, and am taking summer classes right now, (clinical internship was cancelled), and actually received an A on my first physics II midterm, I know I can improve, and get a solid upward trend. After using a GPA calculator, considering units I can still take at my University, putting together a packed schedule, all the while still being realistic, I can receive a maximum GPA of a 3.775 (STEM gpa 3.759) this includes summer coursework, much of which I plan to take side-by side with other future activities. In spite of all of this, I have one major concern left on my shoulders. When medical schools see my P/F grade from my third semester, and my default P/F grades from the COVID 2020 spring semester, I believe this will give them the impression that I run away from challenges in face of adversity, a sentiment I can't blame them for. Although it was this personality trait that led to some of those past decisions, one of which I am developing from, I don't know how I can relay that to the admissions committee, and feel like it will hard to overlook. I feel like with those pass fail grades, i could have a 4.0 and a 526 MCAT and that personality trait, running away from adversity, would still seem like a present part of me. What your guys' thoughts on all of this? What do you recommend I do in the future that will realistically convince medical schools that I no longer run away from challenges, I am ready for the curriculum, and can accomplish any task they ask of me? I understand I don't know everything about this process, that's why I'm here, and I am willing to accept criticism on anything I've said. I should have probably mentioned this earlier, but here are my extra-circulars:

1. I have 50 hours of shadowing several different kinds of doctors: ER doctor, anesthesiologist, and cardiovascular surgeon. I plan on shadowing a D.O. primary care specialist next spring.
2. I'm doing research starting next semester (online) in topics regarding clinical psychology and have been talking to many professors about writing my own literary review and having it published. I have research scheduled for next summer in another clinically related topic at Stanford. (I'd like to not share too much information)
3. I currently preside over two organizations, both of which I individually founded, one that aims to redirect surplus US medical supplies to a particular foreign country, (again, don't want to share too much info on the forums just yet), and another student association for my particular ethnic background, the latter of which currently operates at 9 different universities in my state.
4. I am part of another on-campus organization that also allows me to volunteer my time in redistributing surplus medical supplies to foreign nations, of which has a position I plan on running for.
5. There are other, non-medically related activities that I participate in myself, however I don't know how concerning they'd be to med school, while not wanting to name them specifically, they are on the same scope of importance as things like dance, debate, etc.

6. I plan on doing more, looking for guidance, thank you all again

I will say you do have passion for redirecting US medical supplies

 

[KnightDoc]

I can still have them appear on my transcript, I ran the math and my net GPA would be the same by the end of my college career if I had put them in my transcript, so GPA wise it wouldn’t make a difference, other than maybe having it increase in the here and now rather than wait for several years. If I did put them on my transcript, despite a P still showing up, would that circumvent any thoughts that I got a C? I feel like I still should.

You ran the numbers with the huge assumption that you receive all As the rest of the way, and, even then, your GPA wouldn't be any lower. There is absolutely no reason not to have your As appear on your transcript, regardless of what you do with the B-/C+/P.

 

[KeViN2502]

Hey mate you don't need to care about all of those negative people and what they said above, they are all BS. They literally don't have any idea whatsoever about UC Berkeley and how hard that school is regarding grade deflation compare to other schools (I'm not from there but I know that). Moreover, aiming for the top schools in the first place is COMPLETELY APPROPRIATE, some people above are probably weak applicants, jealous and can't accept the fact that there are others better than them. To be honest I don't think they have enough credentials to tell you that you can't get into top 50 lol, maybe some of them can't even get into top 50 themselves. Read your ECs, I just finish my freshmen year with 2 publications and the founder of 2 organizations but I still think you have a much higher potential than me, Stanford lab will bring you far. Berkeley is suck I know lol but you have to deal with what you got haha. Above 3.5 GPA is a must with some insane ECs (you're on track), top 50 is a piece of cake. Sounds like you won't be a traditional student am I correct?

 

[deleted1047349]

All of this is very helpful and reassuring, thank you. My intended target schools are UC Davis School of Medicine and UC San Fransisco School of Medicine, both of which are top 50 and one of which is top 10. I really want to make getting into these schools a reality, and often times many people on the forum say that I could be good to apply to just any medical school... So I'd like to relay that a lot of the questions I'm asking are made in context to the possibility of me getting to a good/great medical school, as opposed to one that was not top 50. When considering my grades and decisions under that context, am I still good assuming I do great on the MCAT (shooting for 516-524) and get my GPA up to that intended target zone? I feel like my first two years (mainly my first in fact) were plagued with terrible study habits and poor decisions, rather than a reflection of my intelligence/ability to do well in the courses, if I could go back, I do feel like I'd do much much better. For this reason I believe that getting great grades and a very high MCAT are still possible.

Hi Underdog,

It's great that you're shooting for the top, and I want to see you succeed. That's why I'm telling you that you need to critically evaluate your strengths and weaknesses. Looking at your transcript, you definitely need to be more comfortable with quantitative reasoning (i.e., math, physics, and to a lesser extent, general chemistry). These are going to show up in your upper-division classes (affecting your GPA) and on your MCAT. How are you going to score in the 95+ percentile on the MCAT on these topics if you are consistently performing at the 50 percentile in your math/physics classes?

Of course, it doesn't help to tell you to just "be better." My pre-med attractive suggestion would be to look into tutoring lower division math/science courses. I'm sure there are a lot of tutoring programs on campus. This is nice because it will show you like serving other people on your med school application and, more importantly, allow you to strengthen your foundations in these topics. What you do and do not understand becomes a lot clearer when someone is in front of you and needs your help.

Also, taking a calculus-based physics class is not a good idea. Pre-meds are hardworking, but engineers are actually smart.

Anyway, it's clear you are passionate about being the best you can be. If you channel this energy into overcoming your current challenges, I have no doubt you will be a great physician.

 

[Underdog147]

if you can, please read the whole post:

I thank all of you guys for your replies, if you can probably tell, I'm extremely stressed. I have no idea what I'm doing and still think about this all the time. I know I need to pick up and move on but it's so challenging to do when I consider what's at stake and the degree to which I've destroyed my chances. I know people say it's never over for medical school admissions, but even the people who apply with low GPA's didn't pass fail their pre-reqs, they didn't get two C's, they didn't make all the terrible mistakes I made for medical school. I don't know how to describe it but I feel like come time for my application after two hard gap years I won't get into a single school, even if I get a 4.0 across another four semesters of all hard sciences with summer coursework, even if I get a great MCAT score, because I can't realistically see an admissions committee officer looking at me and the transcript I have and thinking I'd be a good candidate for their medical school, a candidate amongst another 100-200 people chosen from 2-4 thousand. You're all right, it's a sellers market, so if it is why should I even continue? what seller would think me a good buyer? if EVERYTHING else is absolutely perfect why would anyone take a chance on a person that pass/failed two pre-reqs, one during Covid, anyway? My dream was to get into a medical school where I could have all of my options open, any MD where any residency is realistically possible, now I don't even know if I can get into any MD program at all. The only thing that would keep my going is if an adcomm looked at my transcript, and told me that there was some theoretical set of circumstances that would still allow me a chance at an MD school. At this point I'm just ranting, but I really just want people to be honest with me, I truly do appreciate all the help people on these forums put into their responses, it means a lot. I just can't help but think that people would make the same comments if I brought a transcript with multiple F's and nothing higher than a B-, don't get me wrong, I honestly DO appreciate how much effort people put into reading my neurotic posts and responding to them, TRULY, I just want people to be honest, because if I HAVE royally destroyed by odds at medical school, I'd like to know that, because even though I want to be a physician, if that's just not realistic anymore, it's a sad reality I need to move forward with and make some hard decisions based on. I don't want to find myself two years out of college with nothing but a bio degree and no school accepting me, I wouldn't be thinking this way if medical school seemed at all realistic, which to be honest, it doesn't right now. I just want some guidance, I feel like there's so much I don't know, thanks for reading.

 

[brockhamptonfanacct]

if you can, please read the whole post:

I thank all of you guys for your replies, if you can probably tell, I'm extremely stressed. I have no idea what I'm doing and still think about this all the time. I know I need to pick up and move on but it's so challenging to do when I consider what's at stake and the degree to which I've destroyed my chances. I know people say it's never over for medical school admissions, but even the people who apply with low GPA's didn't pass fail their pre-reqs, they didn't get two C's, they didn't make all the terrible mistakes I made for medical school. I don't know how to describe it but I feel like come time for my application after two hard gap years I won't get into a single school, even if I get a 4.0 across another four semesters of all hard sciences with summer coursework, even if I get a great MCAT score, because I can't realistically see an admissions committee officer looking at me and the transcript I have and thinking I'd be a good candidate for their medical school, a candidate amongst another 100-200 people chosen from 2-4 thousand. You're all right, it's a sellers market, so if it is why should I even continue? what seller would think me a good buyer? if EVERYTHING else is absolutely perfect why would anyone take a chance on a person that pass/failed two pre-reqs, one during Covid, anyway? My dream was to get into a medical school where I could have all of my options open, any MD where any residency is realistically possible, now I don't even know if I can get into any MD program at all. The only thing that would keep my going is if an adcomm looked at my transcript, and told me that there was some theoretical set of circumstances that would still allow me a chance at an MD school. At this point I'm just ranting, but I really just want people to be honest with me, I truly do appreciate all the help people on these forums put into their responses, it means a lot. I just can't help but think that people would make the same comments if I brought a transcript with multiple F's and nothing higher than a B-, don't get me wrong, I honestly DO appreciate how much effort people put into reading my neurotic posts and responding to them, TRULY, I just want people to be honest, because if I HAVE royally destroyed by odds at medical school, I'd like to know that, because even though I want to be a physician, if that's just not realistic anymore, it's a sad reality I need to move forward with and make some hard decisions based on. I don't want to find myself two years out of college with nothing but a bio degree and no school accepting me, I wouldn't be thinking this way if medical school seemed at all realistic, which to be honest, it doesn't right now. I just want some guidance, I feel like there's so much I don't know, thanks for reading.

Hi, friend!! I say this in the nicest way possible: deep breath. You've received a lot of valid advice, constructive criticism, and insight on this thread. I mean this kindly--but you're overlooking the bigger problem, which is your GPA, and your approach and understanding of med school admissions.

You might get flak at some places for choosing to pass/fail, you might not. This last semester was chaotic for a lot of people; others also pass/failed, good reasons or not. The point there is that looking at this as if you are the only person decided that and therefore will be rejected everywhere is counterproductive and wrong. This is quite literally a once-in-a-lifetime event, and not a good kind.

You can't control that, so as hard as it is to do (and I know how tempting it is to ruminate!) the only helpful thing you can do is pick up and move on to the other portions of your application that you can, and should, change. Your GPA, as you know, is not where it should be. The concrete thing you can do now is a) figure out why your grades have not been where you want them to be and b) adjust those issues, get your plan sorted before you resume classes, and crush your next four semesters (grade deflation will not be an excuse - and it is outside your control. I am asking you specifically to focus on what YOU can control and change). Do well in the rest of your classes. Once you get yourself back on solid footing and you think you've really learned how to study and succeed, maybe take a few non-required, upper-division BCPM courses to solidify an upward trend. There is no magical formula other than hard work and careful self-evaluation (and not mulling over what you can't change).

Also - adjust your expectations, and support them with the proper research. Retrain your thoughts to recognize that there are applicants who we would consider "flawed" who do get in. Applicants have gotten in with middling freshman and sophomore year grades that they fixed; applicants have gotten in with minor IAs like having a beer in their dorm or something. Not saying that those are ideal and that is the norm--but your expectation that MD programs will automatically reject you for not having a perfect application is wrong. Perfectionism will be impossible to sustain in medical school. Refer to adcoms' thoughts on how medical school strains even the most durable and successful of students (@Goro has spoken about this, I believe) and realize that expecting unrealistic perfection, berating yourself, and setting narrow definitions of goals and success is unhealthy.

And lastly: your post indicates a strong desire to go MD, specifically at a top MD. If you end up at "low-tier" MD or a DO--you'll still be a very fortunate medical student with all the tools you need to succeed.

(BTW. This advice is coming from someone who has gotten a D before. 4.0 for the past three semesters. It's doable, but you have to change your approach and attitude both. Fall seven times, stand up eight--but on that eighth go, don't ruin things for yourself preemptively with an unhealthy attitude and a fixation on all the wrong things).

 

[eigen]

Deep breath.

You're two years in. Bad grades in intro coursework (even including P/F grades) does not define the rest of your life.

What it may define is the path you need to take to get where you want. Take the advice you've gotten, and sit down with your advisor. Discuss your path forward.

With low grades early on, you already know you need good grades later on. P/F grades might hurt you, but worst case is that you need to re-take some courses in the future (and even that is unlikely).

Medical schools aren't looking for perfect applicants. What they are looking for is applicants who are resilient, don't back down from challenges, and don't let failure throw them off their game. What you need to show is that you can get back on track (upward trajectory).

You also need to really think long and hard about why you want to be a doctor, and what you want to do with that degree. Your posts here indicate a significant focus on prestige rather than the practice of being a physician. Clear up your goals, and then you can better figure out what you need to do to accomplish them.

 

[tantacles]

if you can, please read the whole post:

I thank all of you guys for your replies, if you can probably tell, I'm extremely stressed. I have no idea what I'm doing and still think about this all the time. I know I need to pick up and move on but it's so challenging to do when I consider what's at stake and the degree to which I've destroyed my chances. I know people say it's never over for medical school admissions, but even the people who apply with low GPA's didn't pass fail their pre-reqs, they didn't get two C's, they didn't make all the terrible mistakes I made for medical school. I don't know how to describe it but I feel like come time for my application after two hard gap years I won't get into a single school, even if I get a 4.0 across another four semesters of all hard sciences with summer coursework, even if I get a great MCAT score, because I can't realistically see an admissions committee officer looking at me and the transcript I have and thinking I'd be a good candidate for their medical school, a candidate amongst another 100-200 people chosen from 2-4 thousand. You're all right, it's a sellers market, so if it is why should I even continue? what seller would think me a good buyer? if EVERYTHING else is absolutely perfect why would anyone take a chance on a person that pass/failed two pre-reqs, one during Covid, anyway? My dream was to get into a medical school where I could have all of my options open, any MD where any residency is realistically possible, now I don't even know if I can get into any MD program at all. The only thing that would keep my going is if an adcomm looked at my transcript, and told me that there was some theoretical set of circumstances that would still allow me a chance at an MD school. At this point I'm just ranting, but I really just want people to be honest with me, I truly do appreciate all the help people on these forums put into their responses, it means a lot. I just can't help but think that people would make the same comments if I brought a transcript with multiple F's and nothing higher than a B-, don't get me wrong, I honestly DO appreciate how much effort people put into reading my neurotic posts and responding to them, TRULY, I just want people to be honest, because if I HAVE royally destroyed by odds at medical school, I'd like to know that, because even though I want to be a physician, if that's just not realistic anymore, it's a sad reality I need to move forward with and make some hard decisions based on. I don't want to find myself two years out of college with nothing but a bio degree and no school accepting me, I wouldn't be thinking this way if medical school seemed at all realistic, which to be honest, it doesn't right now. I just want some guidance, I feel like there's so much I don't know, thanks for reading.

dude.

I feel like you haven’t listened.

1. It’s not all over.
2. Get A’s in as many classes as possible from this moment on.
3. Take the mcat and do well.
4. Continue your extracurriculars.
5. When you have taken the mcat and know what your GPA is, pay $30 to get the MSAR. That will help you figure out what schools your gpa/mcat combo is acceptable at.

that’s it. That’s what you have to do. And if going to a “low tier” medical school is not acceptable to you because you’d rather not be a physician, that’s ok. In that case, don’t apply to those schools. Just don’t be surprised when your application to only schools in the us news and world report top 50 doesn’t make you a doctor.

That’s all the advice I have for you.

 

[jhmmd]

if you can, please read the whole post:

I thank all of you guys for your replies, if you can probably tell, I'm extremely stressed. I have no idea what I'm doing and still think about this all the time. I know I need to pick up and move on but it's so challenging to do when I consider what's at stake and the degree to which I've destroyed my chances. I know people say it's never over for medical school admissions, but even the people who apply with low GPA's didn't pass fail their pre-reqs, they didn't get two C's, they didn't make all the terrible mistakes I made for medical school. I don't know how to describe it but I feel like come time for my application after two hard gap years I won't get into a single school, even if I get a 4.0 across another four semesters of all hard sciences with summer coursework, even if I get a great MCAT score, because I can't realistically see an admissions committee officer looking at me and the transcript I have and thinking I'd be a good candidate for their medical school, a candidate amongst another 100-200 people chosen from 2-4 thousand. You're all right, it's a sellers market, so if it is why should I even continue? what seller would think me a good buyer? if EVERYTHING else is absolutely perfect why would anyone take a chance on a person that pass/failed two pre-reqs, one during Covid, anyway? My dream was to get into a medical school where I could have all of my options open, any MD where any residency is realistically possible, now I don't even know if I can get into any MD program at all. The only thing that would keep my going is if an adcomm looked at my transcript, and told me that there was some theoretical set of circumstances that would still allow me a chance at an MD school. At this point I'm just ranting, but I really just want people to be honest with me, I truly do appreciate all the help people on these forums put into their responses, it means a lot. I just can't help but think that people would make the same comments if I brought a transcript with multiple F's and nothing higher than a B-, don't get me wrong, I honestly DO appreciate how much effort people put into reading my neurotic posts and responding to them, TRULY, I just want people to be honest, because if I HAVE royally destroyed by odds at medical school, I'd like to know that, because even though I want to be a physician, if that's just not realistic anymore, it's a sad reality I need to move forward with and make some hard decisions based on. I don't want to find myself two years out of college with nothing but a bio degree and no school accepting me, I wouldn't be thinking this way if medical school seemed at all realistic, which to be honest, it doesn't right now. I just want some guidance, I feel like there's so much I don't know, thanks for reading.

I also wanted to add that a bio degree (even if it's only a BA and not a BS) is nothing to sneeze at and will open many doors.

 

[Underdog147]

Just don’t be surprised when your application to only schools in the us news and world report top 50 doesn’t make you a doctor.

truly just for clarification, Is this exclusively because I did pass no pass for spring 2020? Another thing is the reason why I don't find the "just do well from here on out" argument helpful is because I would've just been told the same thing if I brought you all a transcript with straight F's, and I say this not to be mean at all, but I feel like we can all agree that person would have a hard time getting into medical school no matter what they did. So I'm having trouble gauging right now, I am actually a situation like a dude with the straight F's and am just being told to take it head first because we'd never tell somebody to not pursue medical school? or is it actually still reasonable for me to be a doctor? additionally, I've came to the conclusion that all I want to do is get into an MD program, don't care which one anymore tbh.

 

[jhmmd]

truly just for clarification, Is this exclusively because I did pass no pass for spring 2020? Another thing is the reason why I don't find the "just do well from here on out" argument helpful is because I would've just been told the same thing if I brought you all a transcript with straight F's, and I say this not to be mean at all, but I feel like we can all agree that person would have a hard time getting into medical school no matter what they did. So I'm having trouble gauging right now, I am actually a situation like a dude with the straight F's and am just being told to take it head first because we'd never tell somebody to not pursue medical school? or is it actually still reasonable for me to be a doctor? additionally, I've came to the conclusion that all I want to do is get into an MD program, don't care which one anymore tbh.

Well it's good that you're willing to be flexible. Situation looks grim but I don't see why you're trying to plan it all out so many years in advance; you can't predict the future so just put your nose to the grindstone and focus on earning good grades.

 

[tantacles]

truly just for clarification, Is this exclusively because I did pass no pass for spring 2020? Another thing is the reason why I don't find the "just do well from here on out" argument helpful is because I would've just been told the same thing if I brought you all a transcript with straight F's, and I say this not to be mean at all, but I feel like we can all agree that person would have a hard time getting into medical school no matter what they did.

No. it's because of your overall GPA right now AND the fact that you took P/F.

And you're excessively focusing on what has happened and not on what you have to do in the future to be a competitive applicant.

So I'm having trouble gauging right now, I am actually a situation like a dude with the straight F's and am just being told to take it head first because we'd never tell somebody to not pursue medical school? or is it actually still reasonable for me to be a doctor? additionally, I've came to the conclusion that all I want to do is get into an MD program, don't care which one anymore tbh.

I have no reason to sugar coat things. If I thought your chances were zero with your current GPA, I would just say so. However, you still have two more years of college courses to go, and you haven't taken the MCAT, so literally no person can chance you right now because we don't have all the relevant information.

So right now, do as well in your courses as you can, and take the MCAT and do well. When that's done, come back and ask what your chances are. Then we'll actually have a reasonable answer for you. Everything up until that point is premature.

 

[Underdog147]

No. it's because of your overall GPA right now AND the fact that you took P/F.

so if I were to get perfect grades from here on out, get to my coveted 3.77 by the end of college, would the effect of these Pass grades from the Covid semester be minimized?

I have no reason to sugar coat things. If I thought your chances were zero with your current GPA, I would just say so. However, you still have two more years of college courses to go, and you haven't taken the MCAT, so literally no person can chance you right now because we don't have all the relevant information.

So right now, do as well in your courses as you can, and take the MCAT and do well. When that's done, come back and ask what your chances are. Then we'll actually have a reasonable answer for you. Everything up until that point is premature.

For this I thank you a lot, I really appreciate it when people can be as honest with me as possible. I've definitely came to the conclusion that if I want to be a doctor at all, I'm going to need to do perfect from now on, and I intend to, two-three years from now, come back here and ask about my chances without perfect grades and an MCAT, if that doesn't happen so be it, but I'm going to try my hardest

 

[tantacles]

so if I were to get perfect grades from here on out, get to my coveted 3.77 by the end of college, would the effect of these Pass grades from the Covid semester be minimized?

Presumably, yes.

For this I thank you a lot, I really appreciate it when people can be as honest with me as possible. I've definitely came to the conclusion that if I want to be a doctor at all, I'm going to need to do perfect from now on, and I intend to, two-three years from now, come back here and ask about my chances without perfect grades and an MCAT, if that doesn't happen so be it, but I'm going to try my hardest

It's ok not to be perfect. Just do your best. If the need to be perfect starts to consume your life, please get therapy. It's hard to tell over the internet, but I'm noticing statements that indicate poor self-esteem and anxiety, and therapy could help you to process some of your feelings better.

 

[Underdog147]

Presumably, yes.

I'm sorry I really don't want to be too pushy on this subject, I just don't know if I fully understand the point you're making here, are you saying that if I do pull through for the next two years and get a great MCAT I still shouldn't be surprised if I get rejected from any t50 medical school, presumably because I took PF for covid? or are you saying that if I were to apply with my gpa now I shouldn't be surprised if I didn't get into those schools, which obviously makes sense?

It's ok not to be perfect. Just do your best. If the need to be perfect starts to consume your life, please get therapy. It's hard to tell over the internet, but I'm noticing statements that indicate poor self-esteem and anxiety, and therapy could help you to process some of your feelings better.

I completely see where you're coming from. It's just challenging to not demand perfection now especially given the situation I'm in, knowing how good I need to do to make what I want out of my life a reality.

 

[tantacles]

I'm sorry I really don't want to be too pushy on this subject, I just don't know if I fully understand the point you're making here, are you saying that if I do pull through for the next two years and get a great MCAT I still shouldn't be surprised if I get rejected from any t50 medical school, presumably because I took PF for covid? or are you saying that if I were to apply with my gpa now I shouldn't be surprised if I didn't get into those schools, which obviously makes sense?

The word "yes" means "yes." The word "presumably" means I can not be certain.

Top 50 medical schools are competitive. There is no guarantee where you get in. I don't know how much this choice will affect you, but you need to move past it and focus on the future. Circumstances are hard to predict, and you should apply broadly. People with perfect stats get rejected from medical school sometimes. I can't even tell you anything about your chances without an MCAT score, so all of this pontification is completely premature.

I completely see where you're coming from. It's just challenging to not demand perfection now especially given the situation I'm in, knowing how good I need to do to make what I want out of my life a reality.

I think therapy may help you cope with these challenges. It can not improve your performance, but if things do not go as you planned them and you don't end up getting into medical school, that disappointment needs to be managed. It sounds like you recognize that this would be difficult for you, and it sounds like you are anxious about this. Therapy can help you manage these feelings.

 

[jhmmd]

I completely see where you're coming from. It's just challenging to not demand perfection now especially given the situation I'm in, knowing how good I need to do to make what I want out of my life a reality.

You know what they say: "Out of challenge arises opportunity."

 

[HopeP]

I guess it's too late to switch back? Also, I guess it doesn't matter if you can opt to also have the grades appear on your transcript alongside the Ps. Still, why on earth would you leave your As as default Ps? Just to mask a single B- or C+? This honestly makes no sense, because, even with the C+, your GPA would now be significantly higher if you had letter grades for your last semester! You need to do whatever your need to do to get those As back on your transcript!!!!!! I'll bet just about everyone on here who read your OP assumed you totally messed up your Spring semester, but all you ended up doing was erasing a 3.58 GPA semester from a 3.25 GPA transcript.

My school did the opposite of yours, defaulting to letter grades but allowing us to change any to P/F. NOBODY even considered taking a P unless they were masking a C, and, even then, lots of people figured it was pointless to mask the C so they left it alone. Of course, if someone had multiple Cs, they had nothing to lose by taking the Ps, so they did so.

What you think of spring quarter forced P/NP grade for entire school?