I passed no passed my classes for the 2020 spring semester, was that a bad decision?

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I'm sorry I really don't want to be too pushy on this subject, I just don't know if I fully understand the point you're making here, are you saying that if I do pull through for the next two years and get a great MCAT I still shouldn't be surprised if I get rejected from any t50 medical school, presumably because I took PF for covid? or are you saying that if I were to apply with my gpa now I shouldn't be surprised if I didn't get into those schools, which obviously makes sense?

I completely see where you're coming from. It's just challenging to not demand perfection now especially given the situation I'm in, knowing how good I need to do to make what I want out of my life a reality.

No one should be surprised at not being admitted to medical school. With 2/3 of all applicants not being admitted and 1/6 of all applicants receiving a *single* acceptance, it is unwise to think in absolutist terms. Assuming a strong mcat and a strong undergraduate performance you may be competitive for t50 programs as you have so heavily emphasized but no one should bank on an acceptance - even an applicant with a 4.0 gpa and 528 mcat should not think they are guaranteed an admission. Slowly, try to get the pieces in play to make you a stronger applicant: grades, ECs, shadowing. Then when the time comes apply. You should know going into this thatyou will always have a friend who: gets into a better medical school, more competitive residency, better residency program, etc than you. As long as you keep measuring yourself against others you are going to be miserable.

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What you think of spring quarter forced P/NP grade for entire school?
Forced as in you have no choice? If that's the case, there is nothing to think about! Schools won't punish applicants for things beyond their control.
 
KnightDoc said:
Forced as in you have no choice? If that's the case, there is nothing to think about! Schools won't punish applicants for things beyond their control.
Are you referring to COVID or what?

Just seems like this thread is a little off-track :laugh:
 
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Are you referring to COVID or what?

Just seems like this thread is a little off-track :laugh:
I'm not sure what you mean by off-track. She asked about "spring quarter forced P/NP grade for entire school," which, if I understand correctly, is directly on-track. OP is asking about something that was optional. The consensus is that it was a bad move. @HopeP is asking if the answer changes if it's not optional. How is that off-track?
 
KnightDoc said:
I'm not sure what you mean by off-track. She asked about "spring quarter forced P/NP grade for entire school," which, if I understand correctly, is directly on-track.
Yea this just seems a little bit unheard of and the thread was originally about the OP's med school app
 
Yea this just seems a little bit unheard of and the thread was originally about the OP's med school app
Nope! Go back and read the first post. OP is a sophomore and was asking about whether voluntarily taking an entire semester P/F would be bad. OP is nowhere close to having a med school app yet. This follow-up question is directly on point, and being forced by a school to take an entire semester P/F is indeed very different from choosing to do so. And, for the record, many schools did indeed make P/F mandatory for all so as not to stigmatize those like the OP.
 
KnightDoc said:
Nope! Go back and read the first post. OP is a sophomore and was asking about whether voluntarily taking an entire semester P/F would be bad. OP is nowhere close to having a med school app yet. This follow-up question is directly on point, and being forced by a school to take an entire semester P/F is indeed very different from choosing to do so. And, for the record, many schools did indeed make P/F mandatory for all so as not to stigmatize those like the OP.
Yea...except you can't really do that
 
Forced as in you have no choice? If that's the case, there is nothing to think about! Schools won't punish applicants for things beyond their control.
Ditto.. No choice, And you can't retake or postpone the class because of course requirements. e.g. Orgo Chem has to finish in sequence in 1 year and you already aced 2/3 orgo and stuck with P/NP for rest 1/3 orgo. Plus that Orgo 3 is not offered in other quarters. So you have no other choice but to take Orgo 3 with P/NP in spring quarter. Lots of similar cases will be in application cycles from next year for at least 2 years.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by off-track. She asked about "spring quarter forced P/NP grade for entire school," which, if I understand correctly, is directly on-track. OP is asking about something that was optional. The consensus is that it was a bad move. @HopeP is asking if the answer changes if it's not optional. How is that off-track?

Gender discrimination!!
 
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The early responses from schools were that they would accept P/NP classes if they were school policy, but not if they were voluntary. Many schools have since amended that to accept P/NP grades during the spring with “no predjudice” meaning it doesn’t matter whether it was optional or not, but it’s not universal.

The other side of this is that even if a school views P/NP as “neutral”, neutral is not positive. The best analogy I’ve heard is that it’s basically an absence of evidence to judge a students performance on. You need to show that you excel in pre-req material, and not having a grade in the course means you need to show it some other way.

One method would be a letter of rec (from, say, your OChem professor) speaking to your abilities. Another is acing that portion of the MCAT. You could also take an upper level course in that area to show you can handle it. All of these place more pressure on the pieces of evidence you do have, since you lack some pieces.

It’s like holistic application review: the fewer things you provide for the committee to base your evaluation on, the more weight is placed on the things you do show.

That said, all of this is tangential to the OP. As has been pointed out, the main issue there is that the grades outside of this spring were low, including already having a pre-req course taken P/NP from before COVID (physics).
 
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Wait wtf...I also go to Berkeley but quit being premed because of trashcan level grades. I took O-Chem 2 P/NP and no one cared; plus didn't a ton of CA med schools say that P/NP was okay?
 
Wait wtf...I also go to Berkeley but quit being premed because of trashcan level grades. I took O-Chem 2 P/NP and no one cared; plus didn't a ton of CA med schools say that P/NP was okay?
wait so you did end up applying to medical school???
 
From what I've seen: it's a minor blemish. Get an upward trend going. 3.7+ from here on out. 514+ MCAT for MD, 508+ for DO, and make sure you've got 200+ each of clinical and nonclinical volunteering hours. Do those things, and you're a competitive applicant. People will then overlook those pass/no pass classes. Unless a school gets a lot of Berkeley applicants, they might just chalk it up to COVID and call it a day. Good luck.
 
Covid P/NP, P/F is going to be a major nuisance for atleast next 2-3 cycles (not current one), gradually flushes out.
 
Covid P/NP, P/F is going to be a major nuisance for atleast next 2-3 cycles (not current one), gradually flushes out.
Not really. Other than at the schools that make it mandatory, applicants will only use it to mask crappy grades. Adcoms are way smarter than anyone seems to realize. No nuisance at all. Everyone involved is going to know exactly what they mean.
 
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KnightDoc said:
Not really. Other than at the schools that make it mandatory, applicants will only use it to mask crappy grades. Adcoms are way smarter than anyone seems to realize. No nuisance at all. Everyone involved is going to know exactly what they mean.
Surprisingly :laugh:, I agree with you on this. CO-VID may cause more stress, but it's all about how you adapt to/deal with stress. Med school itself is a s$$$ ton of stress. And a lot of applicants have dealt with more hardships than CO-VID. Remember not to judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

FWIW I would try not to write an adversity story about CO-VID, btw. It doesn't stand out bc everyone's going through it.
 
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Surprisingly :laugh:, I agree with you on this. CO-VID may cause more stress, but it's all about how you adapt to/deal with stress. Med school itself is a s$$$ ton of stress. And a lot of applicants have dealt with more hardships than CO-VID. Remember not to judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

FWIW I would try not to write an adversity story about CO-VID, btw. It doesn't stand out bc everyone's going through it.
I totally agree with everything you just said, but that wasn't even my point! :) My point was that it's not going to be a "major nuisance" because adcoms are going to know precisely why people are using it, so they are not going to have a difficult time incorporating it into a decision process. This is totally separate from people accepting a school's invitation to provide context through an essay. That said, I totally agree with your point.
 
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I totally agree with everything you just said, but that wasn't even my point! :) My point was that it's not going to be a "major nuisance" because adcoms are going to know precisely why people are using it, so they are not going to have a difficult time incorporating it into a decision process. This is totally separate from people accepting a school's invitation to provide context through an essay. That said, I totally agree with your point.
You construed 'major nuisance' in terms of adversity and to write or not about it. What I meant is next few cycles will have abnormal amount of applicants with abnormal amount of P/NP, which will make it more difficult for admission process overall.
 
You construed 'major nuisance' in terms of adversity and to write or not about it. What I meant is next few cycles will have abnormal amount of applicants with abnormal amount of P/NP, which will make it more difficult for admission process overall.
And I'm saying it won't. Ps will equal Cs., except at schools where P/F is mandatory. Schools will view them accordingly. No difficulty at all. Where P/F is mandatory, applicants are going to need their graded classes to be very good, since Ps certainly aren't going to be viewed as automatic As, unless the GPA already supports that conclusion.
 
And I'm saying it won't. Ps will equal Cs., except at schools where P/F is mandatory. Schools will view them accordingly. No difficulty at all. Where P/F is mandatory, applicants are going to need their graded classes to be very good, since Ps certainly aren't going to be viewed as automatic As, unless the GPA already supports that conclusion.
It is not about how 'P' will be treated by adcoms at what value and how is your GPA history surrounding Covid.
It breaks the equation drastically when you have 1K vs 20K, comparison become nuisance. From same UG an applicant w/o gap year and with covid 'P' will compete against an applicant with gap year and w/o covid 'P's. There will be plenty of applicants from all over UG schools with different combinations. Next cycle around this time it will provide first glimpse of it.
 
It is not about how 'P' will be treated by adcoms at what value and how is your GPA history surrounding Covid.
It breaks the equation drastically when you have 1K vs 20K, comparison become nuisance. From same UG an applicant w/o gap year and with covid 'P' will compete against an applicant with gap year and w/o covid 'P's. There will be plenty of applicants from all over UG schools with different combinations. Next cycle around this time it will provide first glimpse of it.
Sure -- breaks the equation drastically!!! :laugh:

Ask @srk2021 how many Ps his kid has. What comparison? Relatively few applicants will have relatively few grades mandatory P/F, and they will be judged based on the grades they do have. Otherwise, COVID P=C. The only difference is, previously, they wouldn't have been accepted, so they would have shown the Cs. Now they will be accepted, and will be treated as the Cs that they are masking. NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!
 
Sure -- breaks the equation drastically!!! :laugh:

Ask @srk2021 how many Ps his kid has. What comparison? Relatively few applicants will have relatively few grades mandatory P/F, and they will be judged based on the grades the do have. Otherwise, COVID P=C. The only difference is, previously, they wouldn't have been accepted, so they would have shown the Cs. Now they will be accepted, and will be treated as the Cs that they are masking. NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!
Plenty of candidate who are part of mandatory P/F will be in application cycle in coming years, depending upon which year they were in. We are not talking few 100s out of 52K, rather few thousands out of 52K. Do you mean they will be judged based on pre/post Covid era grade history? If that is the case that is a plenty of extra work (nuisance) for admission process to figure that out..
 
Sure -- breaks the equation drastically!!! :laugh:

Ask @srk2021 how many Ps his kid has. What comparison? Relatively few applicants will have relatively few grades mandatory P/F, and they will be judged based on the grades they do have. Otherwise, COVID P=C. The only difference is, previously, they wouldn't have been accepted, so they would have shown the Cs. Now they will be accepted, and will be treated as the Cs that they are masking. NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!
Zero since it was a choice. I don't know how many schools have mandatory P/Fs.
 
Current cycle applicants may have Covid 'P's, but most likely in non-prerequisites as youngest applicants will be rising seniors and already given MCAT, means BCPM GPA was secured well before Covid era. It is the current rising sophomore and juniors who are stuck with mandatory and will compete in next 2-3 cycles against non-covid gap seniors. Most Q system schools have adopted mandatory as it was easy to do for Spring Q. Lots of semester system were choice based and liberally allowed to pick choice until very late in the game, so a good performer stayed with letter grade and wobbly student pick P. It is a mess depending upon school, classes and method they used.
 
Plenty of candidate who are part of mandatory P/F will be in application cycle in coming years, depending upon which year they were in. We are not talking few 100s out of 52K, rather few thousands out of 52K. Do you mean they will be judged based on pre/post Covid era grade history? If that is the case that is a plenty of extra work (nuisance) for admission process to figure that out..
Where are you getting your numbers from???? And, no, it's no extra work. Adcoms will have GPAs calculated by AMCAS, and they will use them. Ps don't count in calculated GPA. If it's mandatory, it will be ignored, and adcoms will use what they have. If it's discretionary, it will only be a few classes here and there, and adcoms will know what that means (C).

Why do you think it will be a meaningful number of classes for a meaningful percentage of applicants? Personally, I don't know anyone who didn't have P/F as an option, and who had it be mandatory. Why do you think it will be thousands of applicants?
 
Where are you getting your numbers from???? And, no, it's no extra work. Adcoms will have GPAs calculated by AMCAS, and they will use them. Ps don't count in calculated GPA. If it's mandatory, it will be ignored, and adcoms will use what they have. If it's discretionary, it will only be a few classes here and there, and adcoms will know what that means (C).

Why do you think it will be a meaningful number of classes for a meaningful percentage of applicants? Personally, I don't know anyone who didn't have P/F as an option, and who had it be mandatory. Why do you think it will be thousands of applicants?
As @HopeP said some schools with quarter system made P/F mandatory for spring quarter since it started after Covid closures.
 
As @HopeP said some schools with quarter system made P/F mandatory for spring quarter since it started after Covid closures.
So what? How does this "break the equation drastically" or constitute a "major nuisance"?

If some candidates do not have grades, through no fault of their own, they will be judged based on the grades that they do have. It's one semester (or quarter) and counting. This isn't going to continue for three years!!!! Some people who were having a bad semester will be helped, others will be hurt. it will even out. There will be many more people choosing to mask Cs. than people having a mandatory P/F quarter. We don't even know if mandatory P/F will continue in the coming year.

Given all of the other issues (MCATs delayed for months, transcripts delayed for weeks, ECs canceled, etc.) this cycle, this is nothing and is not a "drastic equation buster." This is a handful of grades that won't be available to help or hurt some candidates, but there are plenty of other grades, plus MCAT scores, plus ECs, plus essays, plus interviews, plus LORs, on which to base a decision. This is a minor, insignificant inconvenience. Don't believe me. Ask the adcoms.
 
So what? How does this "break the equation drastically" or constitute a "major nuisance"?

If some candidates do not have grades, through no fault of their own, they will be judged based on the grades that they do have. It's one semester (or quarter) and counting. This isn't going to continue for three years!!!! Some people who were having a bad semester will be helped, others will be hurt. it will even out. There will be many more people choosing to mask Cs. than people having a mandatory P/F quarter. We don't even know if mandatory P/F will continue in the coming year.

Given all of the other issues (MCATs delayed for months, transcripts delayed for weeks, ECs canceled, etc.) this cycle, this is nothing and is not a "drastic equation buster." This is a handful of grades that won't be available to help or hurt some candidates, but there are plenty of other grades, plus MCAT scores, plus ECs, plus essays, plus interviews, plus LORs, on which to base a decision. This is a minor, insignificant inconvenience. Don't believe me. Ask the adcoms.
your wisdom is enough for us :cool:
 
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So what? How does this "break the equation drastically" or constitute a "major nuisance"?

If some candidates do not have grades, through no fault of their own, they will be judged based on the grades that they do have. It's one semester (or quarter) and counting. This isn't going to continue for three years!!!! Some people who were having a bad semester will be helped, others will be hurt. it will even out. There will be many more people choosing to mask Cs. than people having a mandatory P/F quarter. We don't even know if mandatory P/F will continue in the coming year.

Given all of the other issues (MCATs delayed for months, transcripts delayed for weeks, ECs canceled, etc.) this cycle, this is nothing and is not a "drastic equation buster." This is a handful of grades that won't be available to help or hurt some candidates, but there are plenty of other grades, plus MCAT scores, plus ECs, plus essays, plus interviews, plus LORs, on which to base a decision. This is a minor, insignificant inconvenience. Don't believe me. Ask the adcoms.
NE Corridor, MidWest and West Coast were hit hard in March - Summer time frame, sun belt was impacted less during that time, so do the math from number of UGs and how many potential applicants from those UGs. Ofc, I don't have an exact count, but just by the scope of size of affected states, it is a good guesstimate of few thousand applicants. All I am saying is all these anomalies will show up in next few cycles at much larger scale than usual 'P' cases. My son progress was halted by mandatory P/F. Even schools that allowed choice, there are mix bags of choices among students, so 'P at choice UG will look similar to mandatory 'P' and thus nuisance.
If some candidates do not have grades, through no fault of their own, they will be judged based on the grades that they do have.
What grades are you talking, pre-Covid and post-covid?
 
NE Corridor, MidWest and West Coast were hit hard in March - Summer time frame, sun belt was impacted less during that time, so do the math from number of UGs and how many potential applicants from those UGs. Ofc, I don't have an exact count, but just by the scope of size of affected states, it is a good guesstimate of few thousand applicants. All I am saying is all these anomalies will show up in next few cycles at much larger scale than usual 'P' cases. My son progress was halted by mandatory P/F. Even schools that allowed choice, there are mix bags of choices among students, so 'P at choice UG will look similar to mandatory 'P' and thus nuisance.

What grades are you talking, pre-Covid and post-covid?
Yes, EVERYONE was hit. How many had mandatory P/F, and for how many classes over the course of an academic career? As I said, I know people at many schools, representing thousands of potential med school applicants, and NONE of them have mandatory P/F. I know many others did go mandatory, for 4 or 5 classes, depending on what happens next year. Not quite the tectonic shift in the admission paradigm you imagine. Just a few less grades for the adcoms to have available to review.

No, optional P will NOT look the same as mandatory. Med schools are not stupid. They will know which is which. It won't be a secret on the transcripts, or to the schools.

What do you mean pre or post COVID? Who had mandatory P/F pre COVID?
 
If some candidates do not have grades, through no fault of their own, they will be judged based on the grades that they do have.
What grades are you talking, pre-Covid and post-covid?
What do you mean pre or post COVID? Who had mandatory P/F pre COVID?
So which grades are you stating 'they do have'?
 
What grades are you talking, pre-Covid and post-covid?

So which grades are you stating 'they do have'?
?????? Every applicant has a transcript with grades for all the classes they have taken. Minimum of 90 credits if someone is applying as a rising senior to 120+ for someone with a gap year and maybe some post-bacc work. As of now, mandatory P/F would be a maximum of 12-15 credits, and counting depending on what happens going forward. A small fraction of the total.

All schools have said they will not force people to retake classes that were mandatory P/F. In fact, most schools have said they will accept all grades, even discretionary P/F, and even in prereqs. This doesn't mean they won't realize that a single optional P is really a C, but they will accept it.

So what don't you understand? If you don't have grades, and it isn't your fault, it won't be held against you. They'll use the grades you have, which would be pre-COVID if everything post-COVID is mandatory P/F.

If you are a 3.5 student who was cruising for a 4.0 semester before mandatory P/F, you will be hurt, because your 4.0 for the spring now doesn't exist. It's gone. Forever. On the other hand, a 3.9 student who was struggling with Orgo 2 before mandatory P/F is going to catch a break, because that C in Orgo 2 also doesn't exist.

Again, what don't you understand? No "major nuisance." No "broken equation." Just fewer grades to calculate in a GPA.
 
wait so you did end up applying to medical school???
Of course not. I had a 3.6 sGPA and a 3.8 cGPA. That's complete trash. I also got a B- in Chem 3A which put me in the middle of the bell curve.

Also, I took MCB 32 at Berkeley (intro to physiology for NON-MAJORS) and found it hard to get an A in that class. I mean, I got an A, but my friends who ended up going to pharmacy school were like "this **** is so easy."

That's when you know you're trash that'll never survive premed.
 
Of course not. I had a 3.6 sGPA and a 3.8 cGPA. That's complete trash. I also got a B- in Chem 3A which put me in the middle of the bell curve.

Also, I took MCB 32 at Berkeley (intro to physiology for NON-MAJORS) and found it hard to get an A in that class. I mean, I got an A, but my friends who ended up going to pharmacy school were like "this **** is so easy."

That's when you know you're trash that'll never survive premed.
dude, is this like a satire? okay the 3.6 sGPA is low sure but in all honesty with the right app those stats are fine for medical school. like I get if you had said, oh I took physiology and thought med school wasn't for me, but come on, I feel like this forum physically laughed when you said a 3.8 is "complete trash" that's your Berkeley pre-med neuroticism at heart lol. Go bears.
 
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Of course not. I had a 3.6 sGPA and a 3.8 cGPA. That's complete trash. I also got a B- in Chem 3A which put me in the middle of the bell curve.

Also, I took MCB 32 at Berkeley (intro to physiology for NON-MAJORS) and found it hard to get an A in that class. I mean, I got an A, but my friends who ended up going to pharmacy school were like "this **** is so easy."

That's when you know you're trash that'll never survive premed.
from what it looks like you joined this forum in 2018, if you just graduated just apply to med school dude, I can't speak for your ECs or research or even if you enjoy medicine, but if you have all that just apply.
 
?????? Every applicant has a transcript with grades for all the classes they have taken. Minimum of 90 credits if someone is applying as a rising senior to 120+ for someone with a gap year and maybe some post-bacc work. As of now, mandatory P/F would be a maximum of 12-15 credits, and counting depending on what happens going forward. A small fraction of the total.

All schools have said they will not force people to retake classes that were mandatory P/F. In fact, most schools have said they will accept all grades, even discretionary P/F, and even in prereqs. This doesn't mean they won't realize that a single optional P is really a C, but they will accept it.

So what don't you understand? If you don't have grades, and it isn't your fault, it won't be held against you. They'll use the grades you have, which would be pre-COVID if everything post-COVID is mandatory P/F.

If you are a 3.5 student who was cruising for a 4.0 semester before mandatory P/F, you will be hurt, because your 4.0 for the spring now doesn't exist. It's gone. Forever. On the other hand, a 3.9 student who was struggling with Orgo 2 before mandatory P/F is going to catch a break, because that C in Orgo 2 also doesn't exist.

Again, what don't you understand? No "major nuisance." No "broken equation." Just fewer grades to calculate in a GPA.
With all due respect my friend I feel like you're take on pass fail is pretty bogus. I know many people who have spoken to adcoms from Georgetown and UCI, and they said although they prefer grades, they're really not in a position to discriminate pass fail under any circumstances because, you know, when you a take a step back, and realize that the only thing between you and an entire grade is a faulty wifi, you're not really considering how so many people were affected by this situation. Effectively every single admissions committee officer has said they don't view P's as C's, both in a public and private setting, and both pre-covid and post-covid, no, they don't have a reason to lie to you, and no, it doesn't look good, but it's not a C, it's viewed for what it is, a P, which carries with it it's own problems and connotations, just like a W. This place is an echo chamber, and only represents a very small portion of pre-meds, albeit the most successful, so your perception that NOBODY took some or all their classes pass fail this semester is pretty narrow-sighted. Additionally you're not considering how some schools that did not do mandatory P/F also may have had unique grading systems for this semester that might throw a wrench into this entire process, maybe some individual classes went pass fail and others did not, it's a very messy situation, and the perception that med school is this all-knowing giant that can figure out every minute detail of every decision every student made in college is pretty absurd.

I'm open to conflicting evidence from any adcomms you may have spoken to, but if all your info is just coming from neurotic pre-med group chats then I think you should take a step back. Again, I can accept being totally incorrect in this assessment and I respect your opinion, I'm in no way saying P grades are seen positively on transcripts in general, as you should obviously avoid them at all costs, I just think that, if you think a sane human being is going to look at a solid fourth to third of all the transcripts for spring 2020 that have some or all P grades, mandatory or not, conveniently during a once-in-a-century level of social upheaval similar to the mid-20th century, that is so unique that if it had happened any decade earlier, education itself would have just shut down for a number of years, and think that all people just got stupider and got a bunch of C's, then maybe you should rethink your opinion.

I could've said all of this and not get into a single med school, not a single interview or secondary, but that's the vibe I'm getting from people who ACTUALLY make the decision of people getting into med school, if you have conflicting primary evidence, I actually want to hear it, no sarcasm, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But if anecdotal evidence means anything, I had a friend who's applying right now, took P/F (all grades) for the last semester, was taking Physics II, and she's gotten almost all her secondaries so far, she had a 3.59. I'm just gonna move on at this point, this is just dumb.
 
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With all due respect my friend I feel like you're take on pass fail is pretty bogus. I know many people who have spoken to adcoms from Georgetown and UCI, and they said although they prefer grades, they're really not in a position to discriminate pass fail under any circumstances because, you know, when you a take a step back, and realize that the only thing between you and an entire grade is a faulty wifi, you're not really considering how so many people were affected by this situation. Effectively every single admissions committee officer has said they don't view P's as C's, both in a public and private setting, and both pre-covid and post-covid, no, they don't have a reason to lie to you, and no, it doesn't look good, but it's not a C, it's viewed for what it is, a P, which carries with it it's own problems and connotations, just like a W. This place is an echo chamber, and only represents a very small portion of pre-meds, albeit the most successful, so your perception that NOBODY took some or all their classes pass fail this semester is pretty narrow-sighted. Additionally you're not considering how some schools that did not do mandatory P/F also may have had unique grading systems for this semester that might throw a wrench into this entire process, maybe some individual classes went pass fail and others did not, it's a very messy situation, and the perception that med school is this all-knowing giant that can figure out every minute detail of every decision every student made in college is pretty absurd.

I'm open to conflicting evidence from any adcomms you may have spoken to, but if all your info is just coming from neurotic pre-med group chats then I think you should take a step back. Again, I can accept being totally incorrect in this assessment and I respect your opinion, I'm in no way saying P grades are seen positively on transcripts in general, as you should obviously avoid them at all costs, I just think that, if you think a sane human being is going to look at a solid fourth to third of all the transcripts for spring 2020 that have some or all P grades, mandatory or not, conveniently during a once-in-a-century level of social upheaval similar to the mid-20th century, that is so unique that if it had happened any decade earlier, education itself would have just shut down for a number of years, and think that all people just got stupider and got a bunch of C's, then maybe you should rethink your opinion.

I could've said all of this and not get into a single med school, not a single interview or secondary, but that's the vibe I'm getting from people who ACTUALLY make the decision of people getting into med school, if you have conflicting primary evidence, I actually want to hear it, no sarcasm, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But if anecdotal evidence means anything, I had a friend who's applying right now, took P/F (all grades) for the last semester, was taking Physics II, and she's gotten almost all her secondaries so far, she had a 3.59. I'm just gonna move on at this point, this is just dumb.
And I respect your opinion as well. Also, with all due respect, I honestly think we are saying basically the same thing, so you might want to rethink characterizing my view as bogus. :)

I don't mean to imply that one or two Cs would be fatal to a med school application, because they wouldn't. Neither would a few Ps, or Ws, or whatever. I am obviously more cynical than you, but I wouldn't expect any adcom working for a school that has said they will accept P/F grades to publicly say they consider them the same as Cs. That doesn't mean they won't. Again, not when the whole semester is mandatory P/F, but when the candidate is cherrypicking the class and otherwise showing grades.

I don't have definitive authority for this, and it's not my regurgitation of the echo chamber -- it's just my common sense, based on what I would do in their position. Everyone should do what they think is best. If someone wants to blindly accept guidance that discretionary Ps are just fine in the age of COVID when all the gunners who didn't receive Cs are proudly showing their As, that's fine. Best of luck to them. I would also mask a C if I needed to and had the opportunity to do so, but I wouldn't consider whatever my calculated GPA was to be unblemished.

For the record, I didn't say my perception was that NOBODY took classes P/F in the spring. I know that a ton of people did, including my roommates. What I said was that none of my premed friends, at a variety of schools (large, small, public and private), had mandatory P/F, and that meant that there would be literally thousands of current and future med school applicants who did not have mandatory P/F. No school has said they will not accept P/F classes, but very few have said they are indifferent if you have a choice (I think the California schools have said this, so there's that -- now they should be even easier to get into ;)).

Again, YMMV, but you seem to be agreeing that a P is not ideal, especially if the alternative is an A or a B, so, to me, it looks like it comes down to semantics whether a P is literally treated like a C, or, in your words, like something else "with it it's own problems and connotations." In this case, even if you can't bring yourself to agree with me, I agree with you. :)
 
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Okay guys I have another question that expands upon the situation I'm already in. I just got accepted to a variety of extracurriculars including research that require I take credit for my independent study, of 1-3 units/hours. As you'd all expect it's mandatory Pass/Fail, I know this wouldn't be a problem for medical schools under normal circumstances, but considering my last semester and me having used pass/fail in two previous semesters, will doing this be a problem? it is an extension of my existing coursework and does not alter my course-load in any way.
 
Okay guys I have another question that expands upon the situation I'm already in. I just got accepted to a variety of extracurriculars including research that require I take credit for my independent study, of 1-3 units/hours. As you'd all expect it's mandatory Pass/Fail, I know this wouldn't be a problem for medical schools under normal circumstances, but considering my last semester and me having used pass/fail in two previous semesters, will doing this be a problem? it is an extension of my existing coursework and does not alter my course-load in any way.
I don't see this being a problem at all. One thing has nothing to do with the other, and if it's mandatory P/F, there is nothing you can do about that and it won't be held against you. If you do already have a problem, this just won't make it worse, and, if you don't, you're still good!!
 
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I don't see this being a problem at all. One thing has nothing to do with the other, and if it's mandatory P/F, there is nothing you can do about that and it won't be held against you. If you do already have a problem, this just won't make it worse, and, if you don't, you're still good!!
Okay I see, I just don't want medical schools to think I overuse pass/fail at first glance, because I feel like they don't dissect transcripts very much, so at first glance they won't like that there is a pass fail grade in several semesters, even if many of those semester I was taking a class where Pass Fail was mandatory. again for context I took Physics I P/F in the fall before covid, took my last semester spring grades, including Ochem I with Lab Pass Fail (during covid), and took a spanish class from freshman year pass/fail. Will this not affect the way a "P" grade is viewed from now on, even if it'll be one that was mandatory as part of an extracurricular????? @KnightDoc
 
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Okay I see, I just don't want medical schools to think I overuse pass/fail at first glance, because I feel like they don't dissect transcripts very much, so at first glance they won't like that there is a pass fail grade in several semesters, even if many of those semester I was taking a class where Pass Fail was mandatory. again for context I took Physics I P/F in the fall before covid, took my last semester spring grades, including Ochem I with Lab Pass Fail (during covid), and took a spanish class from freshman year pass/fail. Will this not affect the way a "P" grade is viewed from now on, even if it'll be one that was mandatory as part of an extracurricular????? @KnightDoc
I just don't see that. Again, you might have overused P/F, and that might or might not be held against you, but the straw that breaks the camel's back (if any) isn't going to be a mandatory independent study in connection with an EC. The alternative is not engaging in the EC, and that's not in anyone's interest -- not yours and not the school's.
 
I'm considering dropping Ochem 2 right now and taking again next semester. Drops do not show up on transcipts in any way, shape or form for this semester only at my institution due to COVID. It will be as though I never enrolled in the course for this semester, and would just be as though I self taught myself ochem in no official capacity. I would still be enrolled in the ochem 2 lab class and have 14 units in the semester. Would this be a problem? I took Ochem 1 last semester in the spring, so will me taking it next semester raise an eyebrow? I'm interested in taking it with another professor and in an in-person environment. Honest opinions only

Things to consider (refresher):

Currently a Junior

I got a C+ in calc my freshman year

I got a C- in stats my freshman year

I got did P/F for a physics class my sophomore year (pre-covid)

I got P/F grades (including Ochem 1 and lab) last semester becuase of COVID grading system, default grades were P/F, however we had the option to manually switch back to grades.

I have a 3.3 GPA, on course for a 3.7+ due to units per semester.

Go ahead and roast me.
 
I'm considering dropping Ochem 2 right now and taking again next semester. Drops do not show up on transcipts in any way, shape or form for this semester only at my institution due to COVID. It will be as though I never enrolled in the course for this semester, and would just be as though I self taught myself ochem in no official capacity. I would still be enrolled in the ochem 2 lab class and have 14 units in the semester. Would this be a problem? I took Ochem 1 last semester in the spring, so will me taking it next semester raise an eyebrow? I'm interested in taking it with another professor and in an in-person environment. Honest opinions only

Things to consider (refresher):

Currently a Junior

I got a C+ in calc my freshman year

I got a C- in stats my freshman year

I got did P/F for a physics class my sophomore year (pre-covid)

I got P/F grades (including Ochem 1 and lab) last semester becuase of COVID grading system, default grades were P/F, however we had the option to manually switch back to grades.

I have a 3.3 GPA, on course for a 3.7+ due to units per semester.

Go ahead and roast me.
There is nothing to roast. If there truly will be no trace of the class, there is nothing to see and nothing to question or criticize. There could be any number of legit reasons for you to skip a semester, including wanting to take it in person. This is a no brainer. Just do whatever you want. No harm, no foul if it doesn't appear as a W.
 
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There is nothing to roast. If there truly will be no trace of the class, there is nothing to see and nothing to question or criticize. There could be any number of legit reasons for you to skip a semester, including wanting to take it in person. This is a no brainer. Just do whatever you want. No harm, no foul if it doesn't appear as a W.
I guess I just thought of a Potential form of harm. In order to declare the major I'm in (bio) students need to be enrolled in ochem 2 for at least the first two weeks of the semester they are declaring in (which is traditionally the point where you can no longer drop classes freely due to early semester scheduling). However after that (in a regular semester) you always have the option to use a free, excused late drop (which traditionally you can only use one time in an academic career for one class, -note: W's don't exist at my school-). However because of covid, you can use this late drop for this covid semester and still use it again in another semester. Juniors need to declare by their first semester junior year, so by that logic I would've had to have been enrolled in ochem 2 for at least the first two weeks of this semester (I'm a junior now) in order to declare on time for graduation. So in theory there's a trace of me being in the class in an inofficial sense assuming the declaration rules of my college are made available. However I guess even if it were a normal semester, I could still use a free late drop anyway, and Idk how med schools would view that if they were to find out about all this in some roundabout way (again none of this shows up on a transcript in any official way at all, I'm just saying this could be a problem, if med schools knew about declaring rules, in that I had to be enrolled for the first two weeks of the current semester in order for me to declare my major AND that I had to declare by this semester) thoughts on this?
 
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There is nothing to roast. If there truly will be no trace of the class, there is nothing to see and nothing to question or criticize. There could be any number of legit reasons for you to skip a semester, including wanting to take it in person. This is a no brainer. Just do whatever you want. No harm, no foul if it doesn't appear as a W.
So essentially the question is, do medical schools likely know about how declaration for my major works at my institution? "see previous quote reply"
 
So essentially the question is, do medical schools likely know about how declaration for my major works at my institution? "see previous quote reply"
Absolutely not! This is far too "in the weeds" for anyone outside your department, let alone your school, to know or care about. No one outside your school will know when you declared your major, or what the internal requirements were to do so. AMCAS will receive and verify your transcript, and the school will neither see nor inquire about anything beyond that. You are totally fine here.
 
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Absolutely not! This is far too "in the weeds" for anyone outside your department, let alone your school, to know or care about. No one outside your school will know when you declared your major, or what the internal requirements were to do so. AMCAS will receive and verify your transcript, and the school will neither see nor inquire about anything beyond that. You are totally fine here.
It's really nice to hear that opinion. I just find it hard to believe that my school's (second most pre-med sending school in the nation) declaration process for the core pre-med major, bio, wouldn't at least be somewhat known to most medical schools, also it's insane to me how we can just drop classes at our leisure this semester, which I'm sure med schools might've heard about. Idk I'm still gonna be enrolled in Chem 3BL, so that might be a tell-tale sign I dropped it, what are your thoughts on this?
 
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