"I personally believe we could see another shortage situation"

[Kevin.Mero]

Just listened to the following podcast. Lucinda Maine introduced their new joint initiative Pharmacists for Healthier Lives. Skip to 13 min mark for her comments re the direction pharmacy is going. "trust in Technicians is going to alleviate Pharmacists ... Pharmacists are chained to distribution ... preventing them from being liberated to do the work that is increasingly be compensated for ... pay-for-performance ..."

She really seems to be placing a lot of emphasis on pharmacy's future success is going to be on the shoulders of community pharmacy, esp. with the younger gen. Too bad community pharmacies are dropping like flies!

Go to 17 min mark to hear about the # of pharmacy schools. "I don't know if we know how much is too much" she then changes the subject by bringing up the pharmacist shortage of 15 years ago, the increase in pharmacists practicing in doctors offices. "I personally believe we could see another shortage situation"

Pharmacists for Healthier Lives: Lucinda L. Maine, Ph.D., R.Ph. - PPN Episode 704


Healthcare Without Walls released by The Network for Healthcare in Innovation (see attached)

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[PharmDBro2017]

Simple mathematics of supply and demand tell us that Lucinda Maine couldn't be more incorrect. From the statistics I've seen: ~15k new grads/yr - ~5k jobs open/yr = ~10k grads in excess per year. The overabundance of new grads will prevent any shortage. Unless weed gets recreationally legalized soon and Pharmacists are the ones manning dispensaries, I don't see any major breakthrough in job numbers. "Provider status" has flopped for 10-20 years now.

We haven't hit the tipping point yet, the worst is still to come.

More info: "A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy"
A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy

 

[Kevin.Mero]

Simple mathematics of supply and demand tell us that Lucinda Maine couldn't be more incorrect. From the statistics I've seen: ~15k new grads/yr - ~5k jobs open/yr = ~10k grads in excess per year. The overabundance of new grads will prevent any shortage. Unless weed gets recreationally legalized soon and Pharmacists are the ones manning dispensaries, I don't see any major breakthrough in job numbers. "Provider status" has flopped for 10-20 years now.

We haven't hit the tipping point yet, the worst is still to come.

More info: "A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy"
A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy

I'm guessing you are familiar with the following two add'l sources of info?

Projections Central - Home
Pharmacy Analysis by Matthew Song & Pharmacy Analysis by Matthew Song: Prediction on the Number of Pharmacists in US

 

[Gombrich12]

Her only concern is keeping enrollment up, she's really no different than someone selling timeshares or cars with fake titles.

 

[VA77]

She has to have a neurological problem. When you see her talk, her eyes dart like someone having a TIA.

 

[steveysmith54]

She has to have a neurological problem. When you see her talk, her eyes dart like someone having a TIA.

I would say her biggest issue is simple, being an idiot

 

[BC_89]

People may and will support opinionations about future prospects by justifying past trends toward the future job market.

In the end, math does not lie. Supply is well over demand. The “what-if” provider status cannot cut out “current” increase of Pharmacy graduates-in-debt.

 

[Kevin.Mero]

People may and will support opinionations about future prospects by justifying past trends toward the future job market.

In the end, math does not lie. Supply is well over demand. The “what-if” provider status cannot cut out “current” increase of Pharmacy graduates-in-debt.

Very well put - Liars can figure but figures don't lie! The US now has 143 schools of pharmacy. The May, 2018 release had one less (138 Accredited (Full or Candidate Status) / Pre-candidate Status 4) I'm aware of 3 add'l schools still to come, let's hope there are no more beyond these. It's going to be hard landing for the profession unless cooler heads prevail!!

 

[PharmtoCS]

“Everything will be fine and dandy in the next few years, please continue with your course to take out $200k+ in loans to hand to pharmacy schools”

 

[Momus]

Lucinda L. Maine, Ph.D., R.Ph "I personally believe we could trick these dumb students to pay 200k in tuition to chase carrot and the stick "

Deny deny deny until it all explodes. She definitely learned from Alan Greenspan.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

The problem with people like Lucinda Maine is that they aren't in the trenches. They aren't either applying to pharmacist jobs or making the hiring decisions. I'ved talked to a few director of pharmacies and they get dozens if not hundreds of applicants per position.

 

[VA77]

The problem with people like Lucinda Maine is that they aren't in the trenches. They aren't either applying to pharmacist jobs or making the hiring decisions. I'ved talked to a few director of pharmacies and they get dozens if not hundreds of applicants per position.

Perfect response! They are the ostrich with their head in the sand.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Fake news from the FAILING AACP!!!!!

 

[gwarm01]

I personally believe in Sasquatch, but I know better than to run my mouth about it.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The problem with people like Lucinda Maine is that they aren't in the trenches. They aren't either applying to pharmacist jobs or making the hiring decisions. I'ved talked to a few director of pharmacies and they get dozens if not hundreds of applicants per position.

When I applied for Parkland Hospital (If you're not familiar, Parkland ranked 57th biggest hospital in the nation in 2014), the director of pharmacy told me that he had 600 applicants for one position... haha

 

[DrVader]

Just listened to the following podcast. Lucinda Maine introduced their new joint initiative Pharmacists for Healthier Lives. Skip to 13 min mark for her comments re the direction pharmacy is going. "trust in Technicians is going to alleviate Pharmacists ... Pharmacists are chained to distribution ... preventing them from being liberated to do the work that is increasingly be compensated for ... pay-for-performance ..."

She really seems to be placing a lot of emphasis on pharmacy's future success is going to be on the shoulders of community pharmacy, esp. with the younger gen. Too bad community pharmacies are dropping like flies!

Go to 17 min mark to hear about the # of pharmacy schools. "I don't know if we know how much is too much" she then changes the subject by bringing up the pharmacist shortage of 15 years ago, the increase in pharmacists practicing in doctors offices. "I personally believe we could see another shortage situation"

Pharmacists for Healthier Lives: Lucinda L. Maine, Ph.D., R.Ph. - PPN Episode 704


Healthcare Without Walls released by The Network for Healthcare in Innovation (see attached)

Home

At CVS we hire technicians off the street. I have worked with some technicians who were so bad at their job that the only thing is that preventing them from killing someone through medical errors is a pharmacist.

 

[owlegrad]

At CVS we hire technicians off the street. I have worked with some technicians who were so bad at their job that the only thing is that preventing them from killing someone through medical errors is a pharmacist.

I miss being able to hire people off the street. Trust me, limiting your applicant pool does not strengthen it. You just end up with less options.

 

[MatCauthon]

"Just as hospital pharmacists moved out of the basement and into direct patient care in the 1980s and 1990s, outpatient pharmacists are moving out from behind the counter and into medical practices." "Advanced practice technician programs will be developed at pharmacy schools as a way to replace this upcoming shortage of pharmacists." "Community setting pharmacists will be increasingly employed in non-traditional avenues such as new pharmacy schools, , and marijuana dispensaries, and strip-mall medication reconciliation facilities."

What the heck?


*this is a made-up quotation in case anyone was wondering, for humorous purposes only*

 

[PharFromNormal]

"Just as hospital pharmacists moved out of the basement and into direct patient care in the 1980s and 1990s, outpatient pharmacists are moving out from behind the counter and into medical practices." "Advanced practice technician programs will be developed at pharmacy schools as a way to replace this upcoming shortage of pharmacists." "Community setting pharmacists will be increasingly employed in non-traditional avenues such as new pharmacy schools, , and marijuana dispensaries, and strip-mall medication reconciliation facilities."

What the heck?

Lol... I love the new pharmacy school “avenue”. Let’s justify the need for more schools with creating a demand for more teachers to teach at the new schools we need to create! How many pharmacists does each school employ? 50? 75? Take a high assumption... the new school probably graduates at least that in one year... very sustainable...

 

[Jbrl]

"Just as hospital pharmacists moved out of the basement and into direct patient care in the 1980s and 1990s, outpatient pharmacists are moving out from behind the counter and into medical practices." "Advanced practice technician programs will be developed at pharmacy schools as a way to replace this upcoming shortage of pharmacists." "Community setting pharmacists will be increasingly employed in non-traditional avenues such as new pharmacy schools, , and marijuana dispensaries, and strip-mall medication reconciliation facilities."

What the heck?

Wonderful, now students can pay hundreds of thousands of dollars and dedicate an extra 4 years of their lives to become full-time teachers in new pharmacy schools.

She's either drank the kool aid and buried her head in the sand or is deliberately misleading the public. Even in the earlier part of the decade my professors (including deans) were talking about how much harder the job market would be.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

"Just as hospital pharmacists moved out of the basement and into direct patient care in the 1980s and 1990s, outpatient pharmacists are moving out from behind the counter and into medical practices." "Advanced practice technician programs will be developed at pharmacy schools as a way to replace this upcoming shortage of pharmacists." "Community setting pharmacists will be increasingly employed in non-traditional avenues such as new pharmacy schools, , and marijuana dispensaries, and strip-mall medication reconciliation facilities."

What the heck?

Dafaq? Upcoming shortage of pharmacists?! lol funniest thing i've heard in a long time...

Why not let technicians be doctors? hell, let technicians be dentists... this would cut health care cost by billions. I mean we let Donald Trump run a country... how hard would it be to pull out a tooth?

 

[Gombrich12]

Fake news from the FAILING AACP!!!!!

 

[projektreverb]

View attachment 241039

I love this lmao

 

[VA77]

I'm glad Lucinda Maine is finally getting bludgeoned by the SDN forum. Long past due for her and for those who support her at AACP.

 

[lane one]

View attachment 241039

"I call her Lyin' Lucy...cause that what she does. She lies"

 

[UCSF2021]

 

[Momus]

Someone please send her an email with a link to this thread. Ask for comments.

 

[rph3664]

Very well put - Liars can figure but figures don't lie! The US now has 143 schools of pharmacy. The May, 2018 release had one less (138 Accredited (Full or Candidate Status) / Pre-candidate Status 4) I'm aware of 3 add'l schools still to come, let's hope there are no more beyond these. It's going to be hard landing for the profession unless cooler heads prevail!!

There were 72 when I was in school, and we really DID have a shortage at that time.

 

[Momus]

There were 72 when I was in school, and we really DID have a shortage at that time.

Pharmacy School bubble will burst - Pharmacy School HQ
The Pharmacy School Bubble Is About to Burst

Everything is coming to fruition. 2020 brace for impact.

 

[lord999]

Darth Albert Wertheimer: Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

 

[VA77]

Daniel Brown at Palm Beach Atlantic is looking like a genius and saying it at a time when it was almost heresy.

 

[sozetone]

Just listened to the following podcast. Lucinda Maine introduced their new joint initiative Pharmacists for Healthier Lives. Skip to 13 min mark for her comments re the direction pharmacy is going. "trust in Technicians is going to alleviate Pharmacists ... Pharmacists are chained to distribution ... preventing them from being liberated to do the work that is increasingly be compensated for ... pay-for-performance ..."

She really seems to be placing a lot of emphasis on pharmacy's future success is going to be on the shoulders of community pharmacy, esp. with the younger gen. Too bad community pharmacies are dropping like flies!

Go to 17 min mark to hear about the # of pharmacy schools. "I don't know if we know how much is too much" she then changes the subject by bringing up the pharmacist shortage of 15 years ago, the increase in pharmacists practicing in doctors offices. "I personally believe we could see another shortage situation"

Pharmacists for Healthier Lives: Lucinda L. Maine, Ph.D., R.Ph. - PPN Episode 704


Healthcare Without Walls released by The Network for Healthcare in Innovation (see attached)

Home

Did she tell you WHERE exactly these jobs will be? WHAT they will entail and HOW much roughly to expect pay wise$$? IF not, this means nothing. Lots of people go on and on about how the field will expand and our roles will change/expand......blah blah. NOW SHOW ME THE MONEY! or dont even listen to her or anyone else. It's all jargon, means nothing.

 

[Pharmd77:)]

Simple mathematics of supply and demand tell us that Lucinda Maine couldn't be more incorrect. From the statistics I've seen: ~15k new grads/yr - ~5k jobs open/yr = ~10k grads in excess per year. The overabundance of new grads will prevent any shortage. Unless weed gets recreationally legalized soon and Pharmacists are the ones manning dispensaries, I don't see any major breakthrough in job numbers. "Provider status" has flopped for 10-20 years now.

We haven't hit the tipping point yet, the worst is still to come.
QUOTE]


You just blew my mind. What if the schedule of weed is federally changed to a schedule 2, or a schedule 3-5. Would that require that pharmacists have to dispense the weed with an RX? Would current dispensaries have to close or higher a pharmacist to dispense the weed? I doubt it will ever be removed completely from the schedule to be used recreationally

 

[Kevin.Mero]

There were 72 when I was in school, and we really DID have a shortage at that time.

I will agree with you that 72 schools were too few. I also feel that when the US hit 82 there still were not enough. But when you go from 82 to 143 in 10+ years, and the existing 82 also rapidly expanded at the same time, you get the what we have today. There are still 3 more new schools coming and some amount of existing programs are still increasing their class sizes. Granted some are cutting back too but I'm betting the net # is still rising.

 

[sozetone]

Daniel Brown at Palm Beach Atlantic is looking like a genius and saying it at a time when it was almost heresy.

Yeah I read about that guy man, im from FL......he called it in like 2012 right? even got the prediction of unemployment rate for new grads almost spot on....at about 18-20%.

 

[Kevin.Mero]

Yeah I read about that guy man, im from FL......he called it in like 2012 right? even got the prediction of unemployment rate for new grads almost spot on....at about 18-20%.

I know Daniel Brown personally and he is a very good person. He was sounding the alarm bells many years too. Some folks listened, some did not. He moved from FL to CA and he is now at Loma Linda University as their Dept Chair, link follows

Faculty Directory

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

Yeah I read about that guy man, im from FL......he called it in like 2012 right? even got the prediction of unemployment rate for new grads almost spot on....at about 18-20%.

He wrote an article in 2013. I wish he was in charge of AACP.

A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy

 

[Secret_Informant]

Very well put - Liars can figure but figures don't lie! The US now has 143 schools of pharmacy. The May, 2018 release had one less (138 Accredited (Full or Candidate Status) / Pre-candidate Status 4) I'm aware of 3 add'l schools still to come, let's hope there are no more beyond these. It's going to be hard landing for the profession unless cooler heads prevail!!

No truer words have been spoken. This was told to me by my history teacher in high school, except he phrased it the other way around:

"Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

Daniel Brown was right all along.

 

[PieRoller]

Operating a Pharmacy School is way more profitable than practicing pharmacy.

 

[Modest_anteater]

“Everything will be fine and dandy in the next few years, please continue with your course to take out $200k+ in loans to hand to pharmacy schools”

kek'd and checked!