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I quit my Scribe Job & ScribeAmerica Review.
- Thread starter SterlingMaloryArcher
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really though you're at the bottom of the healthcare hierarchy...
Lol right?
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
It sounds like your problems were tied more to management than mine. Management was slimey but ... manageable. To be honest I don't think you'd be all that happy if you were back there, as hindsight could be prettier. The connections matter as much as you think, unless you're dead set on cards. Even then med school would prob hold more weight...
I'll add my own experiences. They're around the 10th percentile for pleasant events in scribing, but people could very well run into similar problems of a lesser magnitude
My problem with scribing was multifaceted:
1) Primarily worked with a toxic provider. Lost their temper when I mispoke, rolled their eyes at me, yelled at MAs for problems that weren't the MAs' fault, made fun of my hair lol, swore at me for an awkwardly phrased but factually correct sentence in a note ... Just an unpleasant person professionally all around. I can hit it off with just about anyone, but couldnt with them. they're also an associate professor affiliated with a top residency.....Other 3 providers weren't awesome enough to overshadow Dr. Toxic
2) Riculous expectations. I don't mean to say that the standards for a quality note were too high. That's fine and should be the case to an extent for a respectable program. But the standards and expectations for how some small detail ought to be phrased were muddled and prone to shifting depending on my provider's mood. There was more internal consistency with 3rd party MCAT CARS than my provider's preferences.
3) Encouragement of charting that is misleading, or forcing a ridiculous amount of editing in the patient room that can lead to inaccuracies. Senior scribes being whatever to adding irrelevant diagnoses for billing purposes
4) Poor work environment for extroverted folks. You simply won't be talking to others much. I feel this is more universal with scribe experiences. If you're intoverted, the passivity is unlikely to bug you as much.
5) Complementary to 4, a poor sense of community is always possible. Scribes generally keep to themselves. And eat by themselves. I thought the scribes in my clinic were quiet and going through the motions. Your mileage may vary.
6) Repetitive visits if not interested in specialty.
But do I regret the experience? Not at all. I got a taste of the stresses of medicine. There were cool moments and the physicians could be very entertaining to observe. 8 months and leaving makes for an awkward interview answer but it granted me some critical experience
I'll add my own experiences. They're around the 10th percentile for pleasant events in scribing, but people could very well run into similar problems of a lesser magnitude
My problem with scribing was multifaceted:
1) Primarily worked with a toxic provider. Lost their temper when I mispoke, rolled their eyes at me, yelled at MAs for problems that weren't the MAs' fault, made fun of my hair lol, swore at me for an awkwardly phrased but factually correct sentence in a note ... Just an unpleasant person professionally all around. I can hit it off with just about anyone, but couldnt with them. they're also an associate professor affiliated with a top residency.....Other 3 providers weren't awesome enough to overshadow Dr. Toxic
2) Riculous expectations. I don't mean to say that the standards for a quality note were too high. That's fine and should be the case to an extent for a respectable program. But the standards and expectations for how some small detail ought to be phrased were muddled and prone to shifting depending on my provider's mood. There was more internal consistency with 3rd party MCAT CARS than my provider's preferences.
3) Encouragement of charting that is misleading, or forcing a ridiculous amount of editing in the patient room that can lead to inaccuracies. Senior scribes being whatever to adding irrelevant diagnoses for billing purposes
4) Poor work environment for extroverted folks. You simply won't be talking to others much. I feel this is more universal with scribe experiences. If you're intoverted, the passivity is unlikely to bug you as much.
5) Complementary to 4, a poor sense of community is always possible. Scribes generally keep to themselves. And eat by themselves. I thought the scribes in my clinic were quiet and going through the motions. Your mileage may vary.
6) Repetitive visits if not interested in specialty.
But do I regret the experience? Not at all. I got a taste of the stresses of medicine. There were cool moments and the physicians could be very entertaining to observe. 8 months and leaving makes for an awkward interview answer but it granted me some critical experience
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My Scribe America experience was absolutely terrible and I was grateful it wasn't my first job in healthcare. The pay was subpar, the shifts would always be moved around, and orientation was abysmal. Many of the fellow scribes who I worked with in the ED clearly were "stuck" in the sense that they were brilliant people interested in medicine, but seemed to intentionally take on too many shifts to avoid sitting down and spending time to study for the MCAT/GRE or MD/DO/PA school. I would agree that it was a job of diminishing returns. Something that doesn't get mentioned is that in certain arrangements you become a master of the one handed HPI. Also, we used these terrible chrome books that would always crash at the worst times or just freeze/lag and then you would have to backend so much of the information that you had to recall from memory. Awful.
Also, did anyone else feel like it took ages before you got an official polo? It felt like they withheld that thing for AGES to make it seem like finally getting it was some sort of proverbial carrot at the end of .a stick.
Also, did anyone else feel like it took ages before you got an official polo? It felt like they withheld that thing for AGES to make it seem like finally getting it was some sort of proverbial carrot at the end of .a stick.
D
deleted851433
My previous job prior to ScribeAmerica was entirely retail/food&beverage. Compared to that I absolutely loved scribing until being promoted to direct supervisor (refused to call myself Chief Scribe). If you want to gain clinical experience and get paid (and are ok with slightly above min wage) it's a great gig. It's a corporate job with corporate bs but ScribeAmerica isn't terrible and some managers are pretty hands off once you've demonstrated you're adequately trained - especially at the smaller sites. One positive thing I can say for sure is that ScribeAmerica hires from within so managers are usually pretty understanding because they had to work their way up and were once a scribe. You learn a lot and you'll do a little better than your peers in med school in the patient presentation/write ups later on - especially for more complex cases. Learning to organize information for complex patients is a good advantage. It gives a pretty realistic picture of what it looks like to work in certain specialties to if lucky to work in several departments. If you take the initiative to read about medical conditions during downtime/off hours you've seen it might help you later on. I'd just avoid getting promoted tbh it's a headache. - that's my review.
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What do you need the connections for? There comes a point where shadowing offers diminished returns and adcoms aren't going to want to read through five physician LORs.
Take care of your stress levels. Its not going to get easier and you should enjoy being an (early-twenties-something?) while you can.
We never got the official polo.
What I didn't understand about scribes is how someone can be so thorough at documenting appropriately, paying attention during appointments, and generally being the physician's ***** but mismanage the application process. I mean you have people in their mid 20s who have been there since undergrad but aren't doing a master's/post bacc and perpetually seem to be putting off an MCAT retake. The dutifulness of their scribing was at odds with this mismanagement
I suspected they were good at following instructions, summarizing information or holding it in their head (smart in these ways). But they struggled more with thinking through life plans by oneself or applying info on tests (less smart in these)
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@altblue I just started laughing hysterically at, "We never got the official polo." I just remember being told to wear a navy top and that the polo was something mythical/legendary. My friend became chief scribe at Scribe America and continued doing it until their mid/late 20s therefore staying with the company for close to a decade. They ended up taking a programming crash course and now do something completely outside of healthcare which is a shame.
@Planes2Doc had an awesome post using FF7 as an analogy where being a pre-med involves side quests that seemingly have progression, but in terms of scribing you find out that the progression is really not as linear as initially expected and by the time you hit the wall it becomes something of a sunk cost fallacy. I can see how applications seem daunting and the gap seems narrower as time progresses because responsibilities with occupational familiarity also grow in proportion with time invested into a profession. I think that being stuck is one of the most unfortunate things, especially in a healthcare oriented job.
@Planes2Doc had an awesome post using FF7 as an analogy where being a pre-med involves side quests that seemingly have progression, but in terms of scribing you find out that the progression is really not as linear as initially expected and by the time you hit the wall it becomes something of a sunk cost fallacy. I can see how applications seem daunting and the gap seems narrower as time progresses because responsibilities with occupational familiarity also grow in proportion with time invested into a profession. I think that being stuck is one of the most unfortunate things, especially in a healthcare oriented job.
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Like the dozen hours it took me to get Knights of the Round? But it looked so cool.
I think that for full-time scribing marginal applicants enter it under the impression that the job will help their application. And if their clinical experience is lacking, it will. But that's only one piece of the puzzle. GPA MCAT and possibly non-clinical volunteering are also very important and can't be ignored.
Many are only missing the clinical component or only portions of it and can safely apply after scribing. I scribed because I wanted the experience, my clinical hours were mildly borderline, and with other blemishes on my app I didn't want to invite further criticism. Managed to add in a fair chunk of hours before the primary application.
On some level other scribes implictly understand that the other portions of their app arent up to snuff but are unwilling to leave their comfort zone to remedy it. And yeah the cozy feelings of being part of the medical team keep them satisfied, although to me it could feel like a thankless job given the godawful provider I worked with half the time
Corporate beyond the chief scribes is fundamentally flawed too. You have your standard licensed physicians and MBAs who are competent, but you also have unmatched carrib MDs and people who lacked the GPA or MCAT and couldn't/didn't repair it, and they have all the associated skillset baggage that came with these deficits. Corporate wasn't especially bad in my region but I wish I could talk more about what they'd done.
But in the end, it's water under the bridge. I managed to get in and can deal with problems of greater consequence in med school.
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I personally enjoyed my SA experience. I worked in the ED and was making about $12 by the time I quit (worked there 2 years), which is pretty good for a job during college. In addition to this, at my site, the schedule was very flexible. They asked for 3 days availability, with a minimum required 2 shifts a week. However, under minimally extenuating circumstances, even the 2 shifts a week could be dropped (I was working 1 shift a week towards the end). As far as the physicians go, some were very eager to teach us, while others not so much. ALL of them did teach us if we asked questions. Some of the physicians would also pay for lunch/take us to the physician's lounge. As far as the chief scribe situation goes, we didn't really deal with them so much. As long as you showed up to your shifts and performed decently, your only "authoritative" contact was the provider. Hours did suck being all over the place, but that is expected in the ED, and would be expected in medical school. Overall, for anyone pursuing a career in medicine, PA, NP, or other provider roles, I would definitely 100% scribing for the experience. I had a friend who obtained a job scribing while pursuing medical school, realized she hated this form of medicine, and preferred dental school instead. Best case scenario: you get a crash course on emergency medicine & see some cool stuff. Worst case: you at least realize it isn't something you want to do. For most people that are in a position requiring them to work throughout college (such as myself), scribing is 100% better than the other jobs I endured (retail, warehouse, etc).
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I loved that thread.
One of the scariest things about being premed, really, is the cost of failure. It is so easy to get sucked into these exploitable positions where the only benefit is the fact you can tell your relatives you're doing "something" at thanksgiving, or feel vaguely special that you clicked a mouse for a doctor. Otherwise your only way out is the vague hope it pushes your application over the edge. Many, many times people hope and pray that more volunteer research, dead-end clinical jobs you need a 6-week certification to do, etc. will make up for that 3.4 GPA you worked your ass of for, or three 500's in a row.
It took me multiple tries to get in and I had a "good" job as far as compensation went, savings, and the ability to take my CV and work in industry. Failing at premed is very destructive. It can definitely take a promising college student and track them into a blue-collar job they are over-qualified for. (There's nothing wrong with being a CNA or EMT-B or whatever, but you didn't get those B+'s to do that).
It's difficult for me to be sympathetic to those kinds of people. I don't mean the college sophomore who gets suckered into a 20 hr/week scribe job, barely clears a 3.0 that term and regrets the job but rather your example of those w multiple retakes and a low GPA who think scribing will tip their decidedly poor application over the edge
I know people like that from my scribe job, and the lack of purpose and long term planning is reflected in how they speak to you on a basic communication level and talk about issues. There's this malaise to how they speak and I wonder if they have the maturity to be a doctor or oftentimes meet success in other fields.
Now I have my issues with immaturity, I can be lazy or highly inattentive, but big picture I managed to put together a solid app with years of long term time management. I did the research behind the process. Pre med advisors can be sought out too. It's not too hard.
There's a point where working these dead end jobs for years with a poor unpolished, unresearched app can imply incompetence. It's hard for me to feel bad for that, especially when you have actual borderline applicants who could be amazing in med school
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I scribe for a small company that has contracts with a few hospitals and physician groups in my area. It is interesting to compare and contrast my employer to other scribe companies like SA. Being a smaller company, you'd expect less BS, but that is definitely not the case. During my interview, I was told we were allowed 10 "call offs" which is essentially unpaid days off. But I was also explicitly told these "call offs" were not to be used under any circumstance. My interviewer bragged about how some scribes would come in even if they were ill, as if this were something to brag about. I should have seen this as a red flag... but at the time I was naive and hungry for clinical experience. Unfortunately, that is the type of person this job attracts. Young and naive people who are interested in medicine and do not have the time or money to pursue additional training to do something else in healthcare. Scribe companies know hundreds of these people exist and can freely exploit them. They know that if you act up or under-perform, they can fire you and hire a replacement within the same day.
Management here is subpar. My boss was a former scribe who was interested in a career in medicine. But his wife got pregnant and he put medicine on the backburner to support his wife. He is a great person outside of work, but has no clue what he is doing as a manager. Some things which come to mind are frequently messing up the schedule, enforcing rules which he subsequently breaks, lack of standardized training, etc. Upper management is even worse. They know we have no rights, so their bottom line will always physician satisfaction. But I get it. My job was invented to decrease the burden of charting on physicians. At my site specifically, we have been getting killed. Scribe and doc shifts were shifted around, so now scribes are having to work a lot harder with no change in wages or support. I'm just ranting at this point, but they even refused to pay for our annual holiday party. It seems the money was distributed to the docs who were given $100 "thank you" gift cards and we were given cheap USB chargers.
I've been scribing now for a little over 3 years and don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed my time here for the most part. The schedule is often very flexible and I've made a lot of great connections. I've also been able to learn a ton while here. Yes, there are diminishing returns and things really do get monotonous, but I can finally see the end (ie med school). If you can do something else in healthcare, do it. Even if it's transporting patients or working a front desk. If scribing is the only thing available to you, do it. But realize that you will be expendable and will essentially have no rights.
Management here is subpar. My boss was a former scribe who was interested in a career in medicine. But his wife got pregnant and he put medicine on the backburner to support his wife. He is a great person outside of work, but has no clue what he is doing as a manager. Some things which come to mind are frequently messing up the schedule, enforcing rules which he subsequently breaks, lack of standardized training, etc. Upper management is even worse. They know we have no rights, so their bottom line will always physician satisfaction. But I get it. My job was invented to decrease the burden of charting on physicians. At my site specifically, we have been getting killed. Scribe and doc shifts were shifted around, so now scribes are having to work a lot harder with no change in wages or support. I'm just ranting at this point, but they even refused to pay for our annual holiday party. It seems the money was distributed to the docs who were given $100 "thank you" gift cards and we were given cheap USB chargers.
I've been scribing now for a little over 3 years and don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed my time here for the most part. The schedule is often very flexible and I've made a lot of great connections. I've also been able to learn a ton while here. Yes, there are diminishing returns and things really do get monotonous, but I can finally see the end (ie med school). If you can do something else in healthcare, do it. Even if it's transporting patients or working a front desk. If scribing is the only thing available to you, do it. But realize that you will be expendable and will essentially have no rights.
What is it about scribing that encourages incompetent management. I get that organizing contract work with a hospital can get messy, but still
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I am working as a scribe in out-patient primary care and ER setting. Hospital administration prefers to get rid of scribes by paying single time for dictation technology (Dragon, etc.), but in reality, it's not practical.
The out-patient doctor I work with uses a scribe AND his Dragon software. The dictation software does NOT spare him the time of clicking all the boxes in the ROS/PE, prepping patient's charts in advance, ordering medications/labs as they come up during visits, etc. Having a scribe helps him accomplish all these. He mainly uses his dictation software to add his own "Discussion & Summary" note at the end of each chart. Except for the quick-phrases he saved to train his Dragon, I can typically type faster than the Dragon.
In the ED setting, our physicians made sure to let hospital admins know that their Dragons will NOT replace scribes, and continues to use both.
This is just my experience over the past 2 years.
EDIT: To add about management, I feel that I've been really lucky with my managers at my scribe company. They listen to the scribes and try to work around our obligations as students/applicants/etc. There's been plenty of times when they just had to accept certain situations because hey, **** happens (exams, illnesses, interviews, etc.). I think they understand that.
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Practical for physicians? No. Practical for hospitals who are most likely footing the bill? Yes.
There is a great piece written by Atul Gawande in the New Yorker (Why Doctors Hate Their Computers). I recommend reading the whole piece, but the last half of it focuses on scribes. Essentially, the piece said scribes, who are likely pre-med/pre-pa/pre-nursing, had error rates upwards to 25-50% on recording data. To combat this, some hospitals have essentially been outsourcing scribing to places in India with actual licensed physicians for the same price or cheaper. Mass Gen has already switched over to these virtual scribes. I found it fascinating that these "virtual scribes" would spend upwards to 1 hour on a note. Meanwhile, I'm having to churn out a chart in 15-20 minutes tops.
Scribes decrease physician burden, not the hospitals'. Offering scribes to physicians is a perk, not something mandatory. If a physician doesn't get a scribe, guess who does the chart? At my site, scribe coverage was decreased to cut costs. Initially, some of the physicians complained, but admin didn't budge. So now, scribes are being spread thin and are having to chart on a lot more patients. If scribes were completely cut here, I honestly don't think much would change. Physicians would complain because now they are stuck with charting. But they'd eventually get over it and do it themselves, just as they have before.
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I don’t like scribing because it makes me feel incompetent. I plan on quitting once I know I’ve passed my Mcat. Is that a good plan?
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How is Spanish Interpreter job compared to scribe?
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Not a good justification for quitting. I’m pretty sure you’ll feel the same (from what I gathered from SDN) once in medical school. Take this opportunity to learn from physicians and the illnesses. If you have enough clinical hours, then go ahead after you have smashed the mcat.
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Thanks
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Seems like at minimum wage with ScribeAmerica, you are better off just doing an accelerated Medical Assisting class for like 1k through a community college, then finding a back-office MA job that pays 20+ an hour. You'd come out ahead financially relative to scribing, get more diversified clinical experience, and likely have more fun than scribing which is basically glorified shadowing and not even recognized as direct patient care experience by many PA schools.
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Out of curiosity, how long are the MA courses?
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some are self-paced (and online) and you can knock out the didactic in like a month. the externship where you get placed in a clinic will take you another month. if you do really well in your externship, the clinic might extend a full-time offer to you as well at the end of your externship, but even if they don't, plenty of clinics are hiring for certified MAs.
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Yeah at the end of the day, clinical experience will not save an application that is dead in the water with low stats. In my opinion, it is a far more important investment in time to gain a reasonably competitive MCAT score even if it's a retake, and to do GPA repair through a Post-Bacc / SMP as needed BEFORE working as a scribe / MA / CNA, etc.
yes
mwade3
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I worked for Scribe America during the summer of 2018, and I did not make it past my sixth training day. The information came at me super fast, and being overwhelmed, I just gave up and walked out.
To be honest, I felt intimidated by the super smart people in the ER.
However, I still want to pursue med school.
I am not going to be blacklisted for quitting am I?
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Yeah I would imagine you are likely blacklisted by SA...but honestly, who cares? Go get clinical experience elsewhere as getting a scribe role should not be the default. PM me if you want further advice or recs.
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I remember this from the ScribeAmerica training. it was in the context of breaking privacy laws.
The situation they actually gave was something along the lines of:
Scribe A was working with a physician who saw a certain celebrity in the hospital. Scribe B heard that celebrity was at the hospital, and just had to find out what for. Ultimately, Scribe B used their login to view the celebrity's chart, spilled the beans about the celebrity's medical details, and was caught as the leaker. Due to getting the hospital in a patient privacy lawsuit with the celebrity, ScribeAmerica said that Scribe B would not only be fired, but effectively "blacklisted" from the medical field if/when their HIPAA violation comes to light in the future.
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so long as you are on good terms with the physicians you worked with should you need a letter. it's at-will employment (or at least my contract was) so you can quit for any time for any reason.
Unless you used them as a reference and listed the activity on your application, how would medical schools even know? Keeping a medical school blacklist sounds like a lawsuit in waiting.
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Is the blacklist something to worry about if I received a deferred admission for med school just this last week and will be starting med school summer 2022? I am still in floor training for ScribeAmerica (SA), but was just pulled off the WL from the med school I interviewed LAST (2020-2021) application cycle. Note: I accepted my scribe job at the conclusion of last cycle back in early July when i thought I would need to reapply, but to my surprise i just got an official deferred admission just last week ans see no reason scribing anymore. My commute is brutal, pay is abysmal, and i don't need a physician LOR or clinical hours anymore. Also, I have an opportunity to work a much higher paid full time 9 month contract job for my gap year now but of course that would only be possible if I quit my SA job.
If I have already accepted my official med school admisison and paid my deposit, would quitting my SA job during floor training have consequences in terms of losing my admission at this med school? Please note: I never listed this scribe job on my med school apps last cycle b/c I only got hired at the conclusion of last cycle. Any advice is welcomed
If I have already accepted my official med school admisison and paid my deposit, would quitting my SA job during floor training have consequences in terms of losing my admission at this med school? Please note: I never listed this scribe job on my med school apps last cycle b/c I only got hired at the conclusion of last cycle. Any advice is welcomed
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I doubt there’s actually a blacklist. It seems borderline if not outright illegal.Is the blacklist something to worry about if I received a deferred admission for med school just this last week and will be starting med school summer 2022? I am still in floor training for ScribeAmerica (SA), but was just pulled off the WL from the med school I interviewed LAST (2020-2021) application cycle. Note: I accepted my scribe job at the conclusion of last cycle back in early July when i thought I would need to reapply, but to my surprise i just got an official deferred admission just last week ans see no reason scribing anymore. My commute is brutal, pay is abysmal, and i don't need a physician LOR or clinical hours anymore. Also, I have an opportunity to work a much higher paid full time 9 month contract job for my gap year now but of course that would only be possible if I quit my SA job.
If I have already accepted my official med school admisison and paid my deposit, would quitting my SA job during floor training have consequences in terms of losing my admission at this med school? Please note: I never listed this scribe job on my med school apps last cycle b/c I only got hired at the conclusion of last cycle. Any advice is welcomed
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You're totally fine. Do what you need to do. How could quitting a job the school doesn't even know about have consequences? It wouldn't have consequences even if they did! You are not an indentured servant, and your deferred admission was not contingent on you being a scribe until next summer. By the way, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!Is the blacklist something to worry about if I received a deferred admission for med school just this last week and will be starting med school summer 2022? I am still in floor training for ScribeAmerica (SA), but was just pulled off the WL from the med school I interviewed LAST (2020-2021) application cycle. Note: I accepted my scribe job at the conclusion of last cycle back in early July when i thought I would need to reapply, but to my surprise i just got an official deferred admission just last week ans see no reason scribing anymore. My commute is brutal, pay is abysmal, and i don't need a physician LOR or clinical hours anymore. Also, I have an opportunity to work a much higher paid full time 9 month contract job for my gap year now but of course that would only be possible if I quit my SA job.
If I have already accepted my official med school admisison and paid my deposit, would quitting my SA job during floor training have consequences in terms of losing my admission at this med school? Please note: I never listed this scribe job on my med school apps last cycle b/c I only got hired at the conclusion of last cycle. Any advice is welcomed
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Thanks so much! This makes me feel a lot better about leaving my scribe position.
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Update: I quit my scribe job and my manager was professional and understanding of my decision. Going to thoroughly enjoy the next 10 months of freedom before med school starts next summer!
