I think I've made a mistake

[Anonymousmunchkin]

I think I've made a mistake. I am seriously considering dropping out of fellowship and really, medicine as a whole. I worked so hard to get into fellowship and I really regret that I did. Quite frankly, I thoroughly regret that I have spent over a decade of my life dedicated to this career that I now...hate. Residency was not a walk in the park, but it was residency so I put my head down and tolerated a lot of abuse. But it was residency, that's unfortunately what we are supposed to do since we need our programs more than they need us. I thought fellowship would be somewhat different...at least less insulting, hostile, and abusive. So far I've had an off-service attending ask me to do nursing tasks even though his nurse was there. I complied with a smile on my face and of course his nurse then used me as her intern...but why wouldn't she? The attending had set that precedent. Yesterday took the cake. I had an ED physician scream and berate me on the phone for no apparent reason. I had to apologize profusely for having inadvertently offended her (maybe I cut her off in traffic?), but she made sure to reiterate during her rant that I was just a lowly fellow, a PGY4 at that, and I didn't need to know her name, and if I wanted to, I could have asked the ED secretary because she was so busy...apparently I also didn't need to know the name of the patient she was consulting on because a lowly PGY4 like me shouldn't be wasting her time as a very busy ED physician. This experience was so bizarre...it confused me so much but I didn't know what else to do except apologize profusely. I felt demeaned, insulted, and humiliated and it's only month 3 of fellowship. Residency sucked...and I don't know if I can take 3 more years of being treated like this. I regret that I ranked this program so highly, but to be honest I don't know that things would be any different at a different program. I think I'm just fed up of the people in this career. I bitterly regret investing so much of my youth to this career that I have now come to detest. I am considering handing in my resignation letter to my PD next week. I'm not sure what I will do after dropping out, but I don't think that I can continue to be this miserable for 3 more years. It probably isn't any better after fellowship. I feel like I entered into a very complex and sophisticated drawn-out scam where I am told to continue holding on because there is a light at the end of the tunnel...I don't believe this anymore. I no longer enjoy learning medicine; I have so much anxiety about going in to work because who is going to decide to take out their anger on the lowly fellow? I feel like I am always walking on eggshells and truthfully, I am utterly exhausted. I guess, I just wanted to rant. I've cried so much since yesterday because it was such a demoralizing experience. I feel so guilty because I made my spouse move his entire life to a different state as well. I don't know what will happen if I leave but I can't continue like this.

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[ONC2023]

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I have had interactions of a similar nature, and I understand what you mean by the sense of disrespect and abuse and wasting so much of your life. I have this feeling in the same way especially regarding my academic career, which I now resent and loathe.

What I want to respond to is your comment “there’s no light at the end of the tunnel.”

I just want you to know I’m in my last year, have quit all my research projects, and have multiple offers for jobs that pay between $500K up to $800K (latter being expected private practice productivity). In partnership, salary is 1M+.

I don’t know how bad your program is, and I don’t know if the first year is especially bad or things stay this bad throughout - but for whatever it’s worth, coming from someone who had very similar feelings last year, things did get better.

Do you feel like this is inherent to your program or a uniquely bad stretch of interactions?

And do you have an easier clinical scheduling second and third years?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I think I've made a mistake. I am seriously considering dropping out of fellowship and really, medicine as a whole. I worked so hard to get into fellowship and I really regret that I did. Quite frankly, I thoroughly regret that I have spent over a decade of my life dedicated to this career that I now...hate. Residency was not a walk in the park, but it was residency so I put my head down and tolerated a lot of abuse. But it was residency, that's unfortunately what we are supposed to do since we need our programs more than they need us. I thought fellowship would be somewhat different...at least less insulting, hostile, and abusive. So far I've had an off-service attending ask me to do nursing tasks even though his nurse was there. I complied with a smile on my face and of course his nurse then used me as her intern...but why wouldn't she? The attending had set that precedent. Yesterday took the cake. I had an ED physician scream and berate me on the phone for no apparent reason. I had to apologize profusely for having inadvertently offended her (maybe I cut her off in traffic?), but she made sure to reiterate during her rant that I was just a lowly fellow, a PGY4 at that, and I didn't need to know her name, and if I wanted to, I could have asked the ED secretary because she was so busy...apparently I also didn't need to know the name of the patient she was consulting on because a lowly PGY4 like me shouldn't be wasting her time as a very busy ED physician. This experience was so bizarre...it confused me so much but I didn't know what else to do except apologize profusely. I felt demeaned, insulted, and humiliated and it's only month 3 of fellowship. Residency sucked...and I don't know if I can take 3 more years of being treated like this. I regret that I ranked this program so highly, but to be honest I don't know that things would be any different at a different program. I think I'm just fed up of the people in this career. I bitterly regret investing so much of my youth to this career that I have now come to detest. I am considering handing in my resignation letter to my PD next week. I'm not sure what I will do after dropping out, but I don't think that I can continue to be this miserable for 3 more years. It probably isn't any better after fellowship. I feel like I entered into a very complex and sophisticated drawn-out scam where I am told to continue holding on because there is a light at the end of the tunnel...I don't believe this anymore. I no longer enjoy learning medicine; I have so much anxiety about going in to work because who is going to decide to take out their anger on the lowly fellow? I feel like I am always walking on eggshells and truthfully, I am utterly exhausted. I guess, I just wanted to rant. I've cried so much since yesterday because it was such a demoralizing experience. I feel so guilty because I made my spouse move his entire life to a different state as well. I don't know what will happen if I leave but I can't continue like this.

GME training in the US sucks, full stop. My fellowship was pretty abusive, too, and by the end of my rheumatology fellowship I was pretty burned out.

Good news is that actual medical practice is much better than this. You can stand up for yourself, set boundaries, and (most importantly) leave toxic or nasty jobs. (A huge part of the abuse problem in GME training is that you’re a “captive audience”, and they know it - you can’t really leave.) It really does get better once you leave training.

That said, set some boundaries and also learn to let some things roll off your back. Off service attending (aka not your attending, presumably) wants you to do a bunch of scut work? This isn’t your attending, so why are you doing that? Random nasty ER doc gives you ****? Who cares? When I was a resident, there was a particular renal fellow who was really unpleasant whom we all dreaded calling consults to…I learned to give a quick, streamlined consult and hang the phone up before his tirades started. You are indeed a trainee, but you don’t necessarily have to take abuse from every single other person in the hospital.

 

[HemOncCheng]

do not quit, but look around to transfer your fellowship out. You can let the GME know that if they do not resolve it, you will complain to ACGME.

 

[checkpointinhibitor]

do quit, but look around to transfer your fellowship out. You can let the GME know that if they do not resolve it, you will complain to ACGME.

This !
Be vocal. If there is a problem, politely go to the PD and GME head and inform them.
Finish the fellowship for sure.
Once you are an attending, you can cater to the job that suits your need.
The best part of oncology is that you can see 12-15 patients a day 4 days a week as full time doc to 30 patients 5 days a week and everything in between.
You will tailor your practice accordingly and it is very likely you will enjoy the "dim" light at the end of the tunnel, or atleast, sustain a decent life after fellowship.

 

[HemOncCheng]

do not quit, but look around to transfer your fellowship out. You can let the GME know that if they do not resolve it, you will complain to ACGME.

My mistake,I meant to say do not quit. Type too fast😭 look around to see whether you can transfer out. Also, reports to pd and gme

 

[Plutarch02]

I'm convinced a lot of doctors if thoroughly examined would be found to have narcissitic personality disorder or at the very least score high on narcissistic traits. That's the hardest part about training, but when you realize this fact it becomes clear why they behave the way they do. Most of them are miserable professionally and personally. I don't really have much good advice other than tolerance but I will say that in private practice it is so so much better if you can make it to the other side. Perhaps if you can try therapy although I know that's difficult to schedule on a fellow schedule.

I will say I experienced similar treatment in my residency and fellowship and I think most of us have. It is much more difficult than the medicine itself.

 

[Anonymousmunchkin]

Thank you everyone for your kind words. I don't think the program is inherently malignant. The PD seems approachable but I also don't want to be labeled as a lamenter. There are fewer inpatient rotations in the 2nd and 3rd years but this doesn't quell my anxiety especially after my experience over the past 3 months.

I'm not even sure how to transfer programs and I honestly don't think this would solve the problem. I think I'm just broken from being a trainee and not having any leverage to protect myself from abuse while I would never tolerate being treated in a similar manner outside of work.

I would like to politely set boundaries but I've seen what attendings can do to trainees from my residency experience, which is why my brain has been hard wired to just tolerate abuse at work.

I've spoken to my spouse about my experience; he knew that I wasn't having the best time but didn't completely understand how much my mental health has been affected. I will try to finish the first year of fellowship and we have decided that if I'm still feeling this way after a year, we will be moving back home. Thank you all for your kind words and advice.

 

[sloh]

Of all the specialties out there with seemingly “no light at the end of the tunnel,” I wouldn’t even have Heme-Onc on the list. Grind it out. There is light!

 

[RSBNKCBY]

Mental health is incredibly underrated (even in the world of focusing on 'wellness') in training. Turns out going straight from residency to fellowship, studying for boards, and trying to be a fellow is EXHAUSTING.

Sounds like you are burnt out. I would reach out to your chief fellow, PD, GME office and ask about taking some time off. At this point if you are already thinking of leaving fellowship, what do you have to lose?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Thank you everyone for your kind words. I don't think the program is inherently malignant. The PD seems approachable but I also don't want to be labeled as a lamenter. There are fewer inpatient rotations in the 2nd and 3rd years but this doesn't quell my anxiety especially after my experience over the past 3 months.

I'm not even sure how to transfer programs and I honestly don't think this would solve the problem. I think I'm just broken from being a trainee and not having any leverage to protect myself from abuse while I would never tolerate being treated in a similar manner outside of work.

I would like to politely set boundaries but I've seen what attendings can do to trainees from my residency experience, which is why my brain has been hard wired to just tolerate abuse at work.

I've spoken to my spouse about my experience; he knew that I wasn't having the best time but didn't completely understand how much my mental health has been affected. I will try to finish the first year of fellowship and we have decided that if I'm still feeling this way after a year, we will be moving back home. Thank you all for your kind words and advice.

I completely hear you (like I said, I was treated poorly in my fellowship previously), but I do think you have to separate some of these things from each other:

- Are you being treated poorly in *your own program* (ie, by Heme/onc attendings)?

- Are you being treated poorly by random off service attendings, and by other staff you incidentally run into at the hospital (that ER doc?)

The first category is a much bigger issue than the latter. If your own program is really toxic, that can indeed be a problem. However, if you’re just running into random nasty attendings at the hospital who don’t have any power over you, you need to learn to let that go. The ER doc can’t actually hurt you unless they have evidence of some sort of wild malfeasance or negligence on your part (doesn’t sound like there is). There are indeed a smattering of d-bags and a-holes throughout the medical profession, and you’re going to run into that whether you are a hospitalist, Heme/onc doctor, etc. When you’re an attending, you can get away from these people or stand up to them. As a fellow, just ignore the static unless it’s coming from people who are actually your home program attendings (that’s a different story).

As a fellow, one thing that reassured me a lot was realizing that I was already a fully trained, board certified internist. I was already a functional doctor. If I really got sick of it, I could flip the fellowship program the bird at any point and go get a job as a hospitalist or PCP. You’re not as helpless as you were as a resident.

 

[anonperson]

I think I've made a mistake. I am seriously considering dropping out of fellowship and really, medicine as a whole. I worked so hard to get into fellowship and I really regret that I did. Quite frankly, I thoroughly regret that I have spent over a decade of my life dedicated to this career that I now...hate. Residency was not a walk in the park, but it was residency so I put my head down and tolerated a lot of abuse. But it was residency, that's unfortunately what we are supposed to do since we need our programs more than they need us. I thought fellowship would be somewhat different...at least less insulting, hostile, and abusive. So far I've had an off-service attending ask me to do nursing tasks even though his nurse was there. I complied with a smile on my face and of course his nurse then used me as her intern...but why wouldn't she? The attending had set that precedent. Yesterday took the cake. I had an ED physician scream and berate me on the phone for no apparent reason. I had to apologize profusely for having inadvertently offended her (maybe I cut her off in traffic?), but she made sure to reiterate during her rant that I was just a lowly fellow, a PGY4 at that, and I didn't need to know her name, and if I wanted to, I could have asked the ED secretary because she was so busy...apparently I also didn't need to know the name of the patient she was consulting on because a lowly PGY4 like me shouldn't be wasting her time as a very busy ED physician. This experience was so bizarre...it confused me so much but I didn't know what else to do except apologize profusely. I felt demeaned, insulted, and humiliated and it's only month 3 of fellowship. Residency sucked...and I don't know if I can take 3 more years of being treated like this. I regret that I ranked this program so highly, but to be honest I don't know that things would be any different at a different program. I think I'm just fed up of the people in this career. I bitterly regret investing so much of my youth to this career that I have now come to detest. I am considering handing in my resignation letter to my PD next week. I'm not sure what I will do after dropping out, but I don't think that I can continue to be this miserable for 3 more years. It probably isn't any better after fellowship. I feel like I entered into a very complex and sophisticated drawn-out scam where I am told to continue holding on because there is a light at the end of the tunnel...I don't believe this anymore. I no longer enjoy learning medicine; I have so much anxiety about going in to work because who is going to decide to take out their anger on the lowly fellow? I feel like I am always walking on eggshells and truthfully, I am utterly exhausted. I guess, I just wanted to rant. I've cried so much since yesterday because it was such a demoralizing experience. I feel so guilty because I made my spouse move his entire life to a different state as well. I don't know what will happen if I leave but I can't continue like this.

What nursing task did you have to do?

If you are that miserable, quit. Life is interesting. It's short in the grand scheme of things but our day to day lives can feel like they take forever.

If you quit, that fellowship bridge is gone forever.

I don't recommend that. The job opportunities for a heme onc are too lucrative to pass up. These are potentially million dollar a year jobs. Plus job flexibility that is pretty great from reading about the various offers people post.

Did you talk to your senior fellows on if your experience is normal or was this just some bad luck in dealing with miserable people?

I'm not in your field. But jobs get much better as an attending. 100%. Especially in a desirable field like yours.

You won't be yelled at. You won't be treated poorly by nursing etc. I'm a urogynecologist and still do some general OBGYN. L and D nurses are notorious for being @$$holes but my experience as an attending has been pleasant. Nurses are respectful. A handful have even been my patients as well.

If you can't stomach 3 more years of fellowship I can understand that but typically the first year of fellowship is hard and miserable. Plus don't you have research time built into the fellowship?

How are your actual attendings? If they are good, that's a huge win. My fellowship PD was a huge d0uche who constantly undermined me and made me question my skills. Was a irritating 3 years under his thumb. But now I am free of his BS

 

[HemOncCheng]

What nursing task did you have to do?

If you are that miserable, quit. Life is interesting. It's short in the grand scheme of things but our day to day lives can feel like they take forever.

If you quit, that fellowship bridge is gone forever.

I don't recommend that. The job opportunities for a heme onc are too lucrative to pass up. These are potentially million dollar a year jobs. Plus job flexibility that is pretty great from reading about the various offers people post.

Did you talk to your senior fellows on if your experience is normal or was this just some bad luck in dealing with miserable people?

I'm not in your field. But jobs get much better as an attending. 100%. Especially in a desirable field like yours.

You won't be yelled at. You won't be treated poorly by nursing etc. I'm a urogynecologist and still do some general OBGYN. L and D nurses are notorious for being @$$holes but my experience as an attending has been pleasant. Nurses are respectful. A handful have even been my patients as well.

If you can't stomach 3 more years of fellowship I can understand that but typically the first year of fellowship is hard and miserable. Plus don't you have research time built into the fellowship?

How are your actual attendings? If they are good, that's a huge win. My fellowship PD was a huge d0uche who constantly undermined me and made me question my skills. Was a irritating 3 years under his thumb. But now I am free of his BS

as a fellow, is fully trained to be a doctor. Refuse to do what a nursing task is assigned to you, remind the other party you are a physician not a nurse. Also, remind PD and GME that inappropriate behavior (from other parties) will have ACGME and HR consequences. PD needs to remind the attendings (assume not from your program) they need to be respectful. Tough up and say no! What can they do to you, even your PD or you GME need legit reasons to fire you from program, refusing to do nursing tasks is not a good reason, reporting being treated inappropriately is not even a reason, etc.

 

[MD46]

My 1st year fellowship was more demanding mentally and physically than even 1st year of residency however there was no way I would let anyone talk/treat me in such manner.

Yes some older surgeons were rude some times and maybe some of our own faculty was harsh but w/e, just brushed it off, didnt matter much to be honest as i just thought at this age they wont change.

You are an internist now, not a resident. I would politely and clearly remind the person as to what you dont like either their demeanor or way of talking with you.

Not sure if it applies to you yet but from my last few months of pgy4 till end of pgy6 i moonlighted in the same hospital as my fellowship;
nurses knew when I rounded as attending as well hence they couldnt boss me around.

There is definitely light at the end of the tunnel here, 2nd/3rd year becomes much easier at least at our place it was and after there is a lot of flexibility when it comes to jobs.


( however, circumstances are different for different people, I do understand that; this is just my 2 cents based on personal experience)

 

[osprey099]

Residency and Fellowship are some of the toughest years from a mental and emotional standpoint. There's a lot of physicians out there who are complete ***holes and at least imo, most typically work in academic settings. They like the feeling of power/ego and control. Try your best to not let these people affect your career aspirations. Keep your eyes on the big picture. Put your head down and grind through, graduate, and be a free bird in private practice. In private practice, ego goes out the window and it's all about how nice you are and how you interact with your peers.

 

[Mehena]

I think you have received a lot of great advice above.
Do not quit, and continue pushing forward. Based on your choice of words, such as "profuse apology," it seems you may have taken the "keep quiet, keep your head down, and don’t ruffle any feathers" approach to heart. Sometimes, people mistake that as being a doormat, not knowing your own worth. I used to follow the "keep your head down" mantra, and maybe it helped since I was in the racial minority, which made me easily labeled and targeted. However, it wasn’t good for my mental health. Now, as employed physician, I often say "no" and don’t worry about the emotions of narcissistic,egoistic, antisocial personality types. It’s very freeing.

 

[NewYorkDoctors]

I'm convinced a lot of doctors if thoroughly examined would be found to have narcissitic personality disorder or at the very least score high on narcissistic traits. That's the hardest part about training, but when you realize this fact it becomes clear why they behave the way they do. Most of them are miserable professionally and personally. I don't really have much good advice other than tolerance but I will say that in private practice it is so so much better if you can make it to the other side. Perhaps if you can try therapy although I know that's difficult to schedule on a fellow schedule.

I will say I experienced similar treatment in my residency and fellowship and I think most of us have. It is much more difficult than the medicine itself.

There's always a bigger fish though.

I also suffer from this narcissism to an extent. However, my outlet is not to put patients or other medical providers others down verbally. Rather I go hard on the exercise and workouts maintain my sub 13% body fat most times of the year and physically "flex on other doctors" who are acting out of line. you may be an academic doctor with a large pubmed list, but what is the size of your (censored)?

This post is kinda off topic. so to get back onto top... have you considered getting into an exercise routine OP?
getting a routine exercise regimen

before you say "i have no time," I want to say I have 3 kids and work 80 hours a week. I have no time to go to a gym myself. but I have time to exercise at home while watching the kids with home gym and in the office (standing desk / desk risers)

 

[dozitgetchahi]

as a fellow, is fully trained to be a doctor. Refuse to do what a nursing task is assigned to you, remind the other party you are a physician not a nurse. Also, remind PD and GME that inappropriate behavior (from other parties) will have ACGME and HR consequences. PD needs to remind the attendings (assume not from your program) they need to be respectful. Tough up and say no! What can they do to you, even your PD or you GME need legit reasons to fire you from program, refusing to do nursing tasks is not a good reason, reporting being treated inappropriately is not even a reason, etc.

Agreed.

An example of off-service issues from my fellowship: as a rheumatology fellow, we had to do a certain number of off service ID rotations focusing on bone and joint infections. This sounded nice, except that it was well known among the fellows that the ID department just used us as free labor and made us see a boatload of ID consults that had nothing to do with rheumatology. So when I did my first ID rotation, I pushed back a bit - I told them I wanted to see cases that were bone/joint related. Apparently some static got back to my department afterwards, because my PD came to me at one point and told me that he was told I was “picky and difficult” on that rotation.

I flatly told him that I was happy to see relevant ID cases on that service, but that I did not appreciate being made to go see a bunch of random ID consults that had nothing to do with our specialty, just to lighten the load for ID fellows. “Oh??” he said…he went back to talk to the ID folks and I never heard anything more about it. The ID department treated us much nicer after that and didn’t make us go see a bunch of BS anymore.

Sometimes, all you have to do is speak up a little bit.

 

[bobbyknightranger]

I think I've made a mistake. I am seriously considering dropping out of fellowship and really, medicine as a whole. I worked so hard to get into fellowship and I really regret that I did. Quite frankly, I thoroughly regret that I have spent over a decade of my life dedicated to this career that I now...hate. Residency was not a walk in the park, but it was residency so I put my head down and tolerated a lot of abuse. But it was residency, that's unfortunately what we are supposed to do since we need our programs more than they need us. I thought fellowship would be somewhat different...at least less insulting, hostile, and abusive. So far I've had an off-service attending ask me to do nursing tasks even though his nurse was there. I complied with a smile on my face and of course his nurse then used me as her intern...but why wouldn't she? The attending had set that precedent. Yesterday took the cake. I had an ED physician scream and berate me on the phone for no apparent reason. I had to apologize profusely for having inadvertently offended her (maybe I cut her off in traffic?), but she made sure to reiterate during her rant that I was just a lowly fellow, a PGY4 at that, and I didn't need to know her name, and if I wanted to, I could have asked the ED secretary because she was so busy...apparently I also didn't need to know the name of the patient she was consulting on because a lowly PGY4 like me shouldn't be wasting her time as a very busy ED physician. This experience was so bizarre...it confused me so much but I didn't know what else to do except apologize profusely. I felt demeaned, insulted, and humiliated and it's only month 3 of fellowship. Residency sucked...and I don't know if I can take 3 more years of being treated like this. I regret that I ranked this program so highly, but to be honest I don't know that things would be any different at a different program. I think I'm just fed up of the people in this career. I bitterly regret investing so much of my youth to this career that I have now come to detest. I am considering handing in my resignation letter to my PD next week. I'm not sure what I will do after dropping out, but I don't think that I can continue to be this miserable for 3 more years. It probably isn't any better after fellowship. I feel like I entered into a very complex and sophisticated drawn-out scam where I am told to continue holding on because there is a light at the end of the tunnel...I don't believe this anymore. I no longer enjoy learning medicine; I have so much anxiety about going in to work because who is going to decide to take out their anger on the lowly fellow? I feel like I am always walking on eggshells and truthfully, I am utterly exhausted. I guess, I just wanted to rant. I've cried so much since yesterday because it was such a demoralizing experience. I feel so guilty because I made my spouse move his entire life to a different state as well. I don't know what will happen if I leave but I can't continue like this.

This post REEKS of being at an academic medical center. For the OP - tough situation, but please do go to your PD/DIO. For anyone reading this post and considering a job in academics vs elsewhere, think long and hard about what you want your life to look like, and RUN AWAY from academics as fast as you can.

 

[hehe5347]

Don’t quit!!!! Fellowship sucks.

I think I've made a mistake. I am seriously considering dropping out of fellowship and really, medicine as a whole. I worked so hard to get into fellowship and I really regret that I did. Quite frankly, I thoroughly regret that I have spent over a decade of my life dedicated to this career that I now...hate. Residency was not a walk in the park, but it was residency so I put my head down and tolerated a lot of abuse. But it was residency, that's unfortunately what we are supposed to do since we need our programs more than they need us. I thought fellowship would be somewhat different...at least less insulting, hostile, and abusive. So far I've had an off-service attending ask me to do nursing tasks even though his nurse was there. I complied with a smile on my face and of course his nurse then used me as her intern...but why wouldn't she? The attending had set that precedent. Yesterday took the cake. I had an ED physician scream and berate me on the phone for no apparent reason. I had to apologize profusely for having inadvertently offended her (maybe I cut her off in traffic?), but she made sure to reiterate during her rant that I was just a lowly fellow, a PGY4 at that, and I didn't need to know her name, and if I wanted to, I could have asked the ED secretary because she was so busy...apparently I also didn't need to know the name of the patient she was consulting on because a lowly PGY4 like me shouldn't be wasting her time as a very busy ED physician. This experience was so bizarre...it confused me so much but I didn't know what else to do except apologize profusely. I felt demeaned, insulted, and humiliated and it's only month 3 of fellowship. Residency sucked...and I don't know if I can take 3 more years of being treated like this. I regret that I ranked this program so highly, but to be honest I don't know that things would be any different at a different program. I think I'm just fed up of the people in this career. I bitterly regret investing so much of my youth to this career that I have now come to detest. I am considering handing in my resignation letter to my PD next week. I'm not sure what I will do after dropping out, but I don't think that I can continue to be this miserable for 3 more years. It probably isn't any better after fellowship. I feel like I entered into a very complex and sophisticated drawn-out scam where I am told to continue holding on because there is a light at the end of the tunnel...I don't believe this anymore. I no longer enjoy learning medicine; I have so much anxiety about going in to work because who is going to decide to take out their anger on the lowly fellow? I feel like I am always walking on eggshells and truthfully, I am utterly exhausted. I guess, I just wanted to rant. I've cried so much since yesterday because it was such a demoralizing experience. I feel so guilty because I made my spouse move his entire life to a different state as well. I don't know what will happen if I leave but I can't continue like this.

You need to go to your PD and explain these situations. Unfortunately they might just tell you to tough it out. Ultimately, you’ve gotta walk the fine line between standing up for yourself/ establishing boundaries and also doing the work you need to do to GTfO, be an attending, have much more autonomy and make that $. I hate to say it’s a learning experience, but it is. Standing up for yourself in a polite way, without getting walked on AND without being overly aggressive/offending others is a SKILL. I’m still trying to learn it. I would take it as a life experience, complain to PD when appropriate (you should never feel demeaned), but stay strong and find other things outside of work to focus on. There’s a shining sun at the end of the tunnel.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

This post REEKS of being at an academic medical center. For the OP - tough situation, but please do go to your PD/DIO. For anyone reading this post and considering a job in academics vs elsewhere, think long and hard about what you want your life to look like, and RUN AWAY from academics as fast as you can.

I couldn’t agree more. Academia sucks and I was completely done with it by the end of fellowship. So many egos, so much posturing and penis measuring, so so much BS that I’m happy not to be dealing with anymore.

 

[HemOncCheng]

I couldn’t agree more. Academia sucks and I was completely done with it by the end of fellowship. So many egos, so much posturing and penis measuring, so so much BS that I’m happy not to be dealing with anymore.

completely agree, this is how academia works

 

[ONC2023]

Since we’re all on the academia-hate bandwagon, I feel obligated to join in.

After doing an MD-PhD and thinking I was going to end up running a lab and seeing patients 1/2 a day a week at Most Prestigious Cancer Center in the World, I quit and could not be happier. Have a signed contract to join a private practice next year.

If you’re is stuck in academia OP, there’s a whole other world on the other side.

 

[Plutarch02]

I would only go to academics if I was forced to. Private practice yeahyeahyeah

 

[jojo420]

I''m going to be honest, it doesn't get better. Doctors are now slaves. Trade time, energy, sweat for money. Join the physician facebook page, you'll see

 

[MifflinDunder]

Physician Facebook pages will definitely turn you off of all specialties, especially heme-onc.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I''m going to be honest, it doesn't get better. Doctors are now slaves. Trade time, energy, sweat for money. Join the physician facebook page, you'll see

Eh. I think it is absolutely better as an attending for several reasons. One (at least in PP), I can tailor the situation to how much work I want to do. I can work fewer or more days, I can see fewer or more patients. Second, I am actually getting compensated appropriately for the work I put in (that certainly wasn’t the case in residency/fellowship).

The docs who complain the most about “slave labor” are usually hospital employees who have some admin chode dictating these things to them. And I agree, that does suck. My first hospital job was so bad that I still adamantly refuse to ever work for a hospital system again. But a good PP is different.

 

[bobsmith]

I''m going to be honest, it doesn't get better. Doctors are now slaves. Trade time, energy, sweat for money. Join the physician facebook page, you'll see

I mean - isn't pretty much every job trading time / energy for money? I would argue we at least get the benefit of feeling like we contribute to society / improvement in people's lives in some way and get paid well to do it.

I'm sorry that you feel like your life hasn't gotten any better after fellowship. I do think some jobs are pretty miserable (not necessarily oncology specific); that being said, there's probably a built in selection bias in people who are miserable enough to go on facebook and post in their spare time about how much they hate their job.

For example, I'm pretty happy with my job and my life situation - there isn't really a facebook group for people like me, though!