I want to quit medicine

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Rogue Penguin

Rogue Penguin

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I'm just a ***** I guess.

Do I have any options other than slogging through another miserable decade and trying to pay off my debt so I can try to start a different career at 39? What a joke... I sincerely feel like I used to have a bright future and I've just ruined it by going into medicine. Match did not go well for me and I apparently didn't make my list that well... Despite my best efforts. Im trapped in a location that is boring and isolating with a significantly heavier than average work load and I'm expected to teach myself psychiatry on top of it. I don't know anyone in the area and I have no time to meet anyone. My family is sick and I can't see them. Have to pretend everything is okay all the time. We have no support/process group or access to therapy as part of our program. I tried to go into this optimistic but have been repeatedly disappointed so far. If someone had told me that psychiatry is nothing but trying to write notes in EMR as quickly as possible, I would have made different choices. I wish I'd made a lot of different choices.

I am not depressed. I do not have symptoms of depression. Maybe I'm starting to develop them as I realize how badly I've screwed up, but I don't feel this way about medicine just because I'm depressed or some garbage like that. The sacrifice is just too much for me at this point. How bad will it be for me to just quit and get a regular job, do income based repayment, and then declare bankruptcy when the forgiveness happens and I have to pay taxes on it?

Please help and don't me mean to me. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
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Are you in your intern year, or how far in?
 
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See if you can meet with a therapist to talk it through. Most employers have some type of wellness program where you can meet with someone for a few sessions for free.
 
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You're 39. What did you do before you went into medicine? Would you go back to that?

I felt the way you did at many points in medical school and residency but stuck with it because I don't like working in general and medicine is the quickest path to financial independence I could see. It gets a lot more tolerable in the second half of residency, and the abuse almost completely goes away as an attending.
 
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I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I can't answer for you whether leaving medicine makes sense or not or what other options might be. I can say some things do exist -- things I've seen include being a medical device sales person and selling real estate (pretty lucrative in my city right now, but it's a boom and bust job). I can say, though, that internship sucks and that actually practicing medicine doesn't feel like how it felt to be an intern. I know it seems less common now based on SDN reporting, but people really do transfer programs, too. It might be a possibility to transfer somewhere closer to your family.

For now, though, I'd focus on doing what you can to take care of yourself which might include calling people you love and finding something to do for you that you enjoy most days. I wonder too if some of your classmates are feeling the same way and could be a source of support. Do you guys have get togethers outside of work? If not, maybe arrange one.
 
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nexus73 said:
See if you can meet with a therapist to talk it through. Most employers have some type of wellness program where you can meet with someone for a few sessions for free.
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This^ and meet with the residency program director to see if there is anything they can do. They want you to succeed and be happy. Give them a shot at helping with this.
 
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cookymonster said:
You're 39. What did you do before you went into medicine? Would you go back to that?

I felt the way you did at many points in medical school and residency but stuck with it because I don't like working in general and medicine is the quickest path to financial independence I could see. It gets a lot more tolerable in the second half of residency, and the abuse almost completely goes away as an attending.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking 39 is when he could pay off his debt as an attending and start to transition to something else, assuming he sticks with the medicine path.
 
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I think a slight majority of residents feel this way at some point of their training and the first year is the most likely place. I agree that the first year experience isn't very representative of the practice of psychiatry in the end. I encourage you to hand in there RP. Ultimately, I could be wrong, but quitting now could be a serious mistake if things work out.
 
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While I think your description of psychiatry is not one that is persist (i.e. spending all your time with documentation, its easily <15% of my time), do remember that there are a lot of options afforded if you can slog through it. You can fellowships in some pretty diverse fields that have very different cultures (sleep, pain, neuropsych, peds, etc) and can also work different jobs in academia, business, or niche clinical areas.

Outside of remembering the light at the end of the tunnel, I would do your best to find any attending you get along well with. Having a mentor can be very helpful and many attendings are willing to commiserate and provide further help.
 
Rogue Penguin said:
I'm just a ***** I guess.

Do I have any options other than slogging through another miserable decade and trying to pay off my debt so I can try to start a different career at 39? What a joke... I sincerely feel like I used to have a bright future and I've just ruined it by going into medicine. Match did not go well for me and I apparently didn't make my list that well... Despite my best efforts. Im trapped in a location that is boring and isolating with a significantly heavier than average work load and I'm expected to teach myself psychiatry on top of it. I don't know anyone in the area and I have no time to meet anyone. My family is sick and I can't see them. Have to pretend everything is okay all the time. We have no support/process group or access to therapy as part of our program. I tried to go into this optimistic but have been repeatedly disappointed so far. If someone had told me that psychiatry is nothing but trying to write notes in EMR as quickly as possible, I would have made different choices. I wish I'd made a lot of different choices.

I am not depressed. I do not have symptoms of depression. Maybe I'm starting to develop them as I realize how badly I've screwed up, but I don't feel this way about medicine just because I'm depressed or some garbage like that. The sacrifice is just too much for me at this point. How bad will it be for me to just quit and get a regular job, do income based repayment, and then declare bankruptcy when the forgiveness happens and I have to pay taxes on it?

Please help and don't me mean to me. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...
You're not the only one who can't stomach the koolaid.
 
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Rogue Penguin said:
How bad will it be for me to just quit and get a regular job, do income based repayment, and then declare bankruptcy when the forgiveness happens and I have to pay taxes on it?
Click to expand...
I don't believe declaring (most types of) bankruptcy will clear your debt, as it was changed at some point to not be dischargable in the vast majority of circumstances.

--

The first step is talking with your direct supervisor and/or DCT to let them know that you are struggling with one or more aspects of your experience. Most programs will not want to lose a resident bc it reflects poorly on them and you are a costly investment, in addition to most places having a sense of decency and obligation towards their trainees.
 
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milesed said:
This^ and meet with the residency program director to see if there is anything they can do. They want you to succeed and be happy. Give them a shot at helping with this.
Click to expand...

I'd be a bit careful about this. Many PDs in psychiatry get into it to because they really are committed to education, but there are certainly some who do it for less altruistic reasons (just like medicine as a field). If you are already at a place where the culture is pretty negative, opening yourself up to the department's wrath is a real possible downside of expressing frustrations. At the very least, be very careful with how you word things to feel out the PD and definitely do not expect any confidentiality when speaking to them, it is not a therapy session.
 
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Like somebody here said, many of us have had times when we felt the same, and sometimes still do. It does get a LOT better the further along you get in residency and in your career. Once residency is finished you can be quite picky about where and how much you work. If you are smart you can pay off your debt in 5 to 10 years and go part time. I'm considering going part time in 5 years myself and surprised how within reach it is, and I bet I owed more than you do upon graduation from residency, though I could be wrong.
I imagine a funny thing is probably going to happen to me once debt is gone: once I don't need this work I will enjoy the good parts of the job more and ignore the B.S more.

Anyway, definitely do at least one fun thing, every single day. Pick up a new hobby or return to an old one. Work to live, don't live to work. Don't let the bastards win. :)
 
If there was ever a good reason to want to transfer to another training program, being near ill family that could use your support is one that sounds very legitimate.
 
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Rogue Penguin said:
I'm just a ***** I guess.

Do I have any options other than slogging through another miserable decade and trying to pay off my debt so I can try to start a different career at 39? What a joke... I sincerely feel like I used to have a bright future and I've just ruined it by going into medicine. Match did not go well for me and I apparently didn't make my list that well... Despite my best efforts. Im trapped in a location that is boring and isolating with a significantly heavier than average work load and I'm expected to teach myself psychiatry on top of it. I don't know anyone in the area and I have no time to meet anyone. My family is sick and I can't see them. Have to pretend everything is okay all the time. We have no support/process group or access to therapy as part of our program. I tried to go into this optimistic but have been repeatedly disappointed so far. If someone had told me that psychiatry is nothing but trying to write notes in EMR as quickly as possible, I would have made different choices. I wish I'd made a lot of different choices.

I am not depressed. I do not have symptoms of depression. Maybe I'm starting to develop them as I realize how badly I've screwed up, but I don't feel this way about medicine just because I'm depressed or some garbage like that. The sacrifice is just too much for me at this point. How bad will it be for me to just quit and get a regular job, do income based repayment, and then declare bankruptcy when the forgiveness happens and I have to pay taxes on it?

Please help and don't me mean to me. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

You're not a *****. Medicine's not for everyone.

Can you eke out the year to at least have the chance to get a medical license down the road?
 
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Hang in there. You're barely 2 weeks in your program. This can be a very difficult time for most interns. You're handed new responsibilities and the pressure is enormous. It's easy to see the world falling apart and you're unlikely to make rational decisions in this state of mind.
 
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Rogue Penguin said:
I'm just a ***** I guess.

Do I have any options other than slogging through another miserable decade and trying to pay off my debt so I can try to start a different career at 39? What a joke... I sincerely feel like I used to have a bright future and I've just ruined it by going into medicine. Match did not go well for me and I apparently didn't make my list that well... Despite my best efforts. Im trapped in a location that is boring and isolating with a significantly heavier than average work load and I'm expected to teach myself psychiatry on top of it. I don't know anyone in the area and I have no time to meet anyone. My family is sick and I can't see them. Have to pretend everything is okay all the time. We have no support/process group or access to therapy as part of our program. I tried to go into this optimistic but have been repeatedly disappointed so far. If someone had told me that psychiatry is nothing but trying to write notes in EMR as quickly as possible, I would have made different choices. I wish I'd made a lot of different choices.

I am not depressed. I do not have symptoms of depression. Maybe I'm starting to develop them as I realize how badly I've screwed up, but I don't feel this way about medicine just because I'm depressed or some garbage like that. The sacrifice is just too much for me at this point. How bad will it be for me to just quit and get a regular job, do income based repayment, and then declare bankruptcy when the forgiveness happens and I have to pay taxes on it?

Please help and don't me mean to me. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Not gonna make you feel better, but that "get notes in the EMR as fast as possible" is pretty standard across the board.

Quitting and getting a regular job, doing IBR, is gonna major suck. There is the forgiveness after you've paid on it a certain number of loooong years. There is no discharging with bankruptcy. There's a few cases for hardship but it is rare and has happened with some attorney dancing and fight on the part of the person doing it and it's not something to bank on happening for yourself, for sure.

At least finish your intern year so you're not totally unemployable in the other MD-adjacent jobs that make decent money
 
Merovinge said:
I'd be a bit careful about this. Many PDs in psychiatry get into it to because they really are committed to education, but there are certainly some who do it for less altruistic reasons (just like medicine as a field). If you are already at a place where the culture is pretty negative, opening yourself up to the department's wrath is a real possible downside of expressing frustrations. At the very least, be very careful with how you word things to feel out the PD and definitely do not expect any confidentiality when speaking to them, it is not a therapy session.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Definitely don't speak with your PD, at least not right now. He/she is your boss, not your counselor. The best thing that you could do is share how you're feeling with friends or therapists. I'm sure most programs/GMEs will have therapists who can keep all information confidential.
 
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Would you be able to transfer? Can you (re)apply this year in the match for a PGY-2?
You sounded (read) pretty shell shocked after the match so maybe it just really is a location problem? It sounds like you have a good reason to transfer. Maybe people here can give you advice or you can start sniffing around for a position somewhere close to family. It is also possible that you will be disappointed wherever you go if you had differed expectations from residency.
What were you thinking would happen? What have they told you will happen? What about the senior residents? Do they seem like they're getting a decent training or are happy? Did you start off service or on psychiatry?
What do you like to do that you can't do because this place is boring and isolating?
 
I hesitate to say this because I think it's rather beside the point, but FYI, you do not have to pay taxes on loans forgiven with PSLF.

Hang in there, OP. It gets better. I second the suggestion to make friends in your residency class and be a source of support for each other.
 
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As someone who has worked in some really crummy jobs in their life, I would strongly advise you to not quit. At least with even a bad job in medicine you'll make good money and probably have more options to find a better job. There is a lot about my current job that I don't like, but I am posting this from my beach rental in Cape Cod that is being paid for by the crummy job so it's not feeling too bad this week. My sister the schoolteacher wanted to come but couldn't afford the airfare. She also has a job she hates many days, but does like it a bit more during summer vacation although she can't afford to travel much. Most of my patients have it even worse in the struggle to survive. Just to give you an idea what your life could be like if you aren't a doctor, here are some of the crummy jobs I worked at before I got my crap together and became a psychologist:
  1. Customer service rep for Medicare HMO
  2. Telemarketer
  3. Door to door vacuum sales
  4. account rep for funeral supply company
  5. Forklift operator for cold storage company
  6. Loan officer
  7. Operations manager for warehouse and distribution company (I actually liked this job)
  8. UPS loader and sorter
  9. Inside sales rep selling pagers (if you even remember those, sonny ;))
So my advice would be to tough it out and don't pay too much attention to the irrational thought processes that stress can produce.
 
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I want to quit too. I've had enough of "playing doctor"... or was that "provider".
The loans also have me locked in and I need to continue running the rate race until I'm 67.
 
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Yeah, past bad jobs really give some perspective!
I'll never shovel yards of concrete and grind steel in 20 degree weather, ankle deep in snow and ice ever again, thank God. And even that was better than the minimum wage fast food jobs! I didn't get any vacations or have any cars back in those days.
I complain a lot, and being a psychiatrist has its own difficulties, especially as a PGY1, but all in all it's a good gig and worth sticking with it in the long term.
 
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I sort of miss my days as a pool lifeguard. .....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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Shikima said:
I want to quit too. I've had enough of "playing doctor"... or was that "provider".
The loans also have me locked in and I need to continue running the rate race until I'm 67.
Click to expand...

Its "prescriber."
 
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You can pay off your debt within 1-2 years if you make it your goal. See my thread in finance. You can then work part time if you like and transition to something else or just work part time. If you hate location, do a year and then work on transferring programs. If you hate *all of psych including the fellowships, etc, then I don't know what to say...
 
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Hey Rogue Penguin. I made a subreddit for people who are thinking about leaving. - its at reddit under r/QuittingMedicine/

I know your post was from a year ago (incidentally, that's when I decided not to apply for match and quit medicine.) but maybe you have experience or perspective you can provide to other people in a similar boat.

Also would love to hear from you about how you dealt/are dealing with this situation.
 
You're in residency. While it may seem far away, there is absolutely light at the end of your tunnel. You're much closer than you probably realize. Tough out these next 3+ years.

Once you're done, you are now free to move anywhere you want. You could work 20 hours a week doing tele psych from home, and make more than you would at some boring run of the mill corporate job, and with 10x the free time. This is only another few years of your life and then you are in a position to have such an amazing life. I would keep this in mind and just slog on through.
 
Things get better. Trust me, just hang in there. I'm a PGY-3 and I've had a lot of ups an downs, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
 
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