I was just suspended

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by DrMT, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. DrMT

    DrMT 182?
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    I was just suspended from school. Apparently, my IP address was used to drop another student from his class. I told them I was somewhere else and provided proof (receipt) but they still believe that I was involved. They told me that it will be on my transcript.

    I will appeal, or course, but it does not seem good. They said that unless someone confesses AND prove that they did it, this isn't going to be good for me.


    Thoughts?
     
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  3. sejin8642

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    sue
     
  4. Wanna_B_Scutty

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    Step 1: Call your parents immediately and tell them what has happened.
    Step 2: Work with your parents to find and retain a good lawyer as quickly as possble.
    Step 3: Don't sign anything, agree to anything, or accept anything until you have representation. He!!, maybe you shouldn't even say anything else!

    If what you're saying is true, then that really, really sucks. :(

    Good luck to you.
     
  5. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats
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  6. dragonark

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    Follow Wanna_B's advice. A lot of times schools step way over the line because the student will just shut up and take it. Retaining a good lawyer, or even talking to student legal services, begins the process of telling the school not to be so obtuse. Student legal services doesn't always have YOUR best interest in mind though, despite whatever they may say. It's just a quicker and cheaper option.
     
  7. Law2Doc

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    Student legal services probably won't be allowed to get involved in a matter related to the university -- there are ethical rules prohibiting lawyers from such conflicts of interest. So I wouldn't waste my time on this. Expect to have to go outside of the school system for a lawyer. I third Wanna_B's advice.
     
  8. EastLACoolio777

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    How tha heck your school knows your home IP address? Besides IP changes all the time :confused:
     
  9. carn311

    carn311 Dead tired.
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    You are an ass.
     
  10. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats
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    :thumbup:
     
  11. scrubsaresexy

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    That really sucks...I don't know much about computers, but I'm very, very skeptical. I would try to take some kind of legal action against your school. I'm really sorry this has happened to you, but in all reality, if you didn't do it and you weren't involved, so long as you don't just sit down and take it, I think you will definitely be able to appeal this and clear your name.
     
  12. UMP

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    woah... hard core, man... whoever did that is a true gunner right there... probably knocked off two competitors with that move :eek:
     
  13. Ephesus

    Ephesus Member
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    If you become known as a litegious student you won't get into any medical school.

    Time to think outside the box.
     
  14. baylormed

    baylormed On the Search
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    And if he doesn't take any action, he won't, either.

    This situation is unfair however you look at it and he SHOULD take action against it, if only for fairness' sake.
     
  15. Wanna_B_Scutty

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    :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

    Besides, unless this situation makes the national news for some absurd reason, how are the OP's potential med schools ever going to know that the OP hired a lawyer? Regardless of whether or not the suspension stays on the OPs record, schools will only know the specific details which the OP chooses (not) to reveal.
     
  16. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
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    There's a huge difference between bringing a suit and contesting an administrative action. He won't be suing the school, he will be getting representation for a hearing on the action. The latter isn't litigious -- the school drew first blood on this one, and he would be foolish not to defend appropriately. Time to get back inside that box. :)
     
  17. gary5

    gary5 Senior Member
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    That's amazing that you have a receipt with the exact same time stamp as when the class was dropped. What a coincidence! What are the odds? Obviously, your school thinks that the coincidence is not one.
     
  18. Ephesus

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    I gave advice to think outside the box (which, when you think about it, is inside the box, no?) as a primary measure.

    When you sue an administration for an adminstrational error how do you think another administration is going to look at you (cf. adcomm)? And then, one considers, what is an error? Is the student arbitrarily going to make these judgements? It won't be a leap for another school to think they may be sued for a 'mistake' they make.

    N.B. I am not telling the person to not do something, just try to avoid suing. People in America tend to sue first and ask questions later (ironically, that was SWAT's theme). Most things can be resolved diplomatically. This included.
     
  19. st0w

    st0w plasticperineum syndrome
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    Your IP address? Do you live in university housing, or off-campus? Do you have a wireless access point that might not be secured? What kind of proof have they given to you at this stage, if any?

    Your "IP address" shouldn't give anybody access to drop a student from a class. That type of operation requires some form of authentication (username/password, or token, or some unique identifier). These credentials will be far more telling of who actually committed the act in question.

    Depending on how they assign IP addresses, it can be VERY easy to arbitrarily use somebody else's IP address. If they assign then automatically (via DHCP), then there should be logs of what MAC address (a unique identifier to each physical network card) was given that address at what particular time.

    However, there is another layer to it. IP and MAC addresses are easily changed, especially by somebody with some level of technical skill. IP addresses do not hold up in court as a form of authentication (proving somebody is who they claim to be), unless the address is assigned by an entity to somebody/something that cannot be altered by the receiver. An example of when they CAN hold up, to clarify what I mean, is when an IP address is assigned to a user on a dial-up modem. This is because the IP address is assigned to a physical phone number that the phone company can correlate to an address. Proving that the person using the computer on the other end of that phone line, however, can be difficult.

    The long and short of it is, the charge is bogus. Your school cannot prove that you were the person using that IP address at that time. They may claim you were associated with it, but unless their IP assignment is iron-clad (and I highly doubt that) then you can just as easily prove it could have been anybody smart enough to change an IP address to attempt to avoid detection.

    As others have said, don't sign anything at all. You need to speak with an outside attorney to discuss your options and how to proceed.
     
  20. gary5

    gary5 Senior Member
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    I know a guy who played this joke on his friend: he dropped all his classes and registered him for a full load of nursing classes. So, unfortunately for him, he was the guy whose name "isn't on the list" for every one of his classes, the first day. Of course, the administrators don't find this kind of thing very amusing.
     
  21. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
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    You still misunderstand the point of a lawyer in such situation (and the nature of the legal system generally). OP won't be "suing" anyone here. The school is taking the action. His right under most administrative school guidelines and rules is generally to have a right to a hearing on the issue. That is not a lawsuit. It is a defense of an action brought by the school. Or alternatively, one might use the lawyer to resolve it diplomatically, have a sit down with the dean and work things out. Because a lawyer skilled in negotiation is far more likely to resolve this than some accused college student. Either way, there is no lawsuit involved, no litigiousness, no suing. A good lawyer can AVOID this kind of thing. "People in America" tend to only sue when money is involved. For this kind of matter, lawyers serve a dramatically different purpose.
     
  22. DrMT

    DrMT 182?
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    it was not for the EXACT time. it was about 20-30minutes after but i was nowhere near my house or my computer.
     
  23. Falco2525

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    I dont really understand why its a big deal that your IP addresss was used for this purpose...people use mny computer all the time for things like this...I guess I dont understand what the big deal is and why the school cares
     
  24. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
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    People use your computer to unenroll classmates they don't like from classes they wanted to be in all the time?
     
  25. DrMT

    DrMT 182?
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    im a sociable guy and friends are at my house all the time. especially since i bought a ps3. asking them who did it is like asking a killer if he did it or not; it's not going to get me anywhere.
     
  26. Falco2525

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    ahhh i guess i missed that point i thought the OP said that his friend unenrolled himself from a class...i guess i misread the OPs post
     
  27. Wanna_B_Scutty

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    DrMT,

    I just had a thought regarding your recepit. Did you get the receipt at a convenience store/gas station/bank/other place likely to have security cameras? If so, you might be able to prove your whereabouts detective-style.

    Naturally, you'll need a lawyer before you could even think about trying to get ahold of any such tapes. Also, it's quite possible (even probable) that businesses will only release such tapes to the police. But if you could get one, that'd pretty much solve your problem, right there.

    Again, good luck to you. :luck:
     
  28. riceman04

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    :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
     
  29. searun

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    My father has been a trial lawyer for 30 years. I would never want to be a lawyer but his advice is good. You need to find about $5,000 to pay a retainer ( borrow the money if you have to) and locate the best meanest nastiest lawyer you can find who has a reputation that will catch the attention of your college or university. And then your lawyer needs to write a letter threatening to sue the university for damages to your reputation and future education and employment prospects, damages calculated over your lifetime, for this false and defamatory accusations....somewhere around about 15 million dollars and then file the bloody lawsuit if necessary and contact the local media. Drop the legal ABomb on those A##holes. Good luck. Everyone hates lawyers until you need one...hire a frigging pit bull trial lawyer and go for the throat and rip it out.
     
  30. thirsty4chicken

    thirsty4chicken New Member
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    :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

    Agreed. Let 'em have it.
     
  31. DrMT

    DrMT 182?
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    they said i can appeal and basically confess and there is a good chance the ruling will be reduce. what do you guys think? i dont have the cash to hire a lawyer =/
     
  32. Wanna_B_Scutty

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    Wow, searun, you always seemed like such a gentle soul. I guess this thread released the beast lurking beneath! :eek:
     
  33. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
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    Not the right approach for the initial communication. If the lawyer hits a roadblock THEN you can have him send the nasty-gram. But always lead with candy and save the hammer till needed.
     
  34. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
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    I think this is a really bad idea. Get the cash from the same place you were going to get the application fees, interview costs etc. Because this is equally important to your med school career.
     
  35. Dookter

    Dookter Senior Member
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    If you did not do it, do NOT confess to anything. Once you confess, you did it....bottom line. Is there a law school where you go to school? If you really cannot afford a lawyer, it might be worth it to just see if one of the profs from the law school would sit down and talk to you for like 10 minutes. I'm definitely not suggesting this as a first option, but I would give it a shot before I went solo and confessed to something I didn't do. They will probably blow you off, but I think they might just be intrigued enough about this happening at their university to sit down and talk with you.
     
  36. el aye

    el aye O_o
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    I don't think you should just give in, they would probably say that just to make you confess.


    My question is, why can't the university just re-enroll the dropped class, problem solved?
     
  37. thirsty4chicken

    thirsty4chicken New Member
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    I was going to say the same thing.

    If you confess, you're going to have a black mark on your record for the rest of your academic career. This WILL adversely affect your chances of getting into med school.

    If you really want to go to med school, add this expense to the student loan and app fees pile. Without a lawyer, your application may be forfeit.
     
  38. nlax30

    nlax30 Fellow
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    *EDIT* Good lord, there's like a dozen responses while I was typing.... anyway, I agree, don't confess*

    Are you living on campus or off? If on campus then it might be possible for them to "track" which IP address your computer had depending on how the network is set up. If you live off campus and have your own internet service provider then I seriously question how they traced it back to you without going to the internet provider and requesting the info from them. I'm not sure how much you want to say on here but if you need help on the "technical" side of things as far as how else to prove that it wasn't your computer that did feel free to PM me.

    At this point I wouldn't worry too much about being perceived as too litigious, at this point you're just trying to cover your butt.
     
  39. thirsty4chicken

    thirsty4chicken New Member
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    Also, while you were out and some guy was using your computer, you were probably under surveillance at some point.

    Try to talk to store owners, police officers, etc to try to get the tapes so that you have an alibi beyond your receipt.
     
  40. Wanna_B_Scutty

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    Thirded. It totally sucks, but you're gonna have to fight the Man, big guy. :(
     
  41. foofish

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    I think it's the dishonesty and sabotage of another student that the school has an issue with...
     
  42. Cirrus83

    Cirrus83 Too old for this
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    Retain a lawyer, tell the school you've retained a lawyer, and then sue if they still don't stop being idiots. Have your lawyer send them a letter first (much cheaper than actually suing obviously), but if push comes to shove, sue the crap out of them.

    Doubtful they'd actually keep it on your record if you have evidence that you were elsewhere, once you lawyer up.

    That is of course, if it wasn't really you =p
     
  43. Tired

    Tired Fading away
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    Admitting to something you didn't do is just as bad as lying about something you did do.

    Plus, how are you going to explain it on the AMCAS? Either you're a jerk who tried to screw a friend, or you're a liar.

    Call you parents, talk to lawyers. I suspect the $5000 cited earlier is a bit of an overstatement.
     
  44. searun

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    Well, anyone raised by a trial lawyer has a beast lurking beneath....trial lawyers may be persuasive but they all have their own demons...but my advice to the OP is this :"do not confess to anything"...you can never retract that confession and it could ruin your future med school prospects. Find the money to have an initial consultation with a really good experienced attorney. Law2Doc is right...the lawyer will use the velvet glove first and then drop the ABomb later if necessary.
     
  45. cleothecat

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    1. Go to a meeting with your parents in attendance. No lawyer present.

    2. Present your facts and ask about the process. Try to find out what their case really is.

    3. Your parent spresent, but you do the talking. Be non-threatening. Your parents there is a strong implied threat that your family will vigorously defend this case unless there is absolute proof that you committed the "act".

    4. last time I checked, people commit crimes, computers do not. You are likely in violation of a university misdeameanor /student code violation
    of lending out your computer. If it was not "lent out" then you are a victim of identity theft.

    5. You are presumed innocent until found guilty by a process. You may be under threat of suspension. If you were suspended without due process, the University may be liable for significant damages (unless you were directly caught in the act of typing the withdrawal on the computer).
     
  46. searun

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    No, the $5,000 quoted earlier is not an overstatement...obviously, you have never had much experience with top level lawyers and retainers. But it will be the best investment the OP ever made to get out of this situation if he really wants to be a doc. Seriously, most of us are borrowing a quarter of a million dollars for tuition/expenses...and five grand seems too much to protect your future? Do a cost/benefit analysis. Perhaps the lawyer would take the case on a contingent fee if the case could not be settled in negotiation but for god's sake, get a good lawyer.
     
  47. swifteagle43

    swifteagle43 Lover- not a fighter
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    S U E!!!

    First off...IP addresses can be manipulated

    Second off, if you can prove you were somewhere else then they cant get you. Especially if you are on camera at the place that gave you the reciept. I think they will probably have cameras at the place.

    If you were more than a while away from your dorm computer and you have a reciept for that time you are pretty well off to file a lawsuit.

    Depends on what they are talking to you for. I would appeal first but I would tell them if this doesn't get resolved that you are involving a lawyer.
     
  48. Dookter

    Dookter Senior Member
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    I actually think this might help. You might or might not also want a lawyer present, but I know people take mom and dad seriously for some reason. Let me give a quick example. I am in medical school, so I'm old enough to pop up on the computer at my parents' gym as needing to "prove" I am still in school if I am going to be considered a dependent family member so I can get in the gym. All that is required is a school schedule. Well, I got them what they want like 3 times over Christmas break, and I kept having to argue with the people over it. Sounds like a stupid example, but finally I said screw it and had my mom call. I swear I spent a total of like an hour arguing with these people about my damn school schedule and my mom got it taken care of in like 2 seconds over the phone. So as juvenile as it sounds, mom and dad's support might help.
     
  49. Tired

    Tired Fading away
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    Yes, because what the OP really needs is a "top-level trial attorney". Good God, we're talking about an administrative dispute of disciplinary procedures at a university, not a capital murder trial.

    Just because your daddy charges a 5 grand retainer doesn't mean every lawyer in every city does.
     
  50. DrMT

    DrMT 182?
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    funny thing is.... they said... even if i was somewhere else... i couldve, according to them, called a friend from my house and tell him to drop the classes.
     
  51. medhacker

    medhacker We can end world poverty!
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    Retain a lawyer as described above

    If funds are not enough, you may find an attorney who would take a credit card from you or your 'rents as retainer. Best wishes!
     

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