I was just suspended

[Law2Doc]

1. Go to a meeting with your parents in attendance. No lawyer present.

2. Present your facts and ask about the process. Try to find out what their case really is.

3. Your parent spresent, but you do the talking. Be non-threatening. Your parents there is a strong implied threat that your family will vigorously defend this case unless there is absolute proof that you committed the "act".

Actually this is a bad idea. By going in and presenting facts, you are potentially using up whatever rights to a hearing or appeal you may have under the school's administrative procedure. This "get the lawyer later" approach is thus often a mistake. The goal is to get the lawyer before you exhaust your hearing/appeal rights. Once you use them up, you tie his hands significantly in terms of what he can do to help you.

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[searun]

Yes, because what the OP really needs is a "top-level trial attorney". Good God, we're talking about an administrative dispute of disciplinary procedures at a university, not a capital murder trial.

Just because your daddy charges a 5 grand retainer doesn't mean every lawyer in every city does.

What we are talking about is this person's life, his opportunity to enter the medical profession. How much is your opportunity to enter the medical profession worth to you? Personally, I spent about 5 thousand dollars flying around the country during the last six months to go to 10 interviews, including AMCAS costs and secondary fees. Sure, the OP could find a kid who graduated from law school last spring and just passed the bar exam who will ask for a $500 retainer and then wet his pants when he gets that first hard ball letter from the university's lawyer, and I guarantee you that the university's lawyer did not graduate from law school last spring. Take a crash course in reality. You have to fight fire with fire not wet underwear.

 

[searun]

Actually this is a bad idea. By going in and presenting facts, you are potentially using up whatever rights to a hearing or appeal you may have under the school's administrative procedure. This "get the lawyer later" approach is thus often a mistake. The goal is to get the lawyer before you exhaust your hearing/appeal rights. Once you use them up, you tie his hands significantly in terms of what he can do to help you.

Law2Doc is exactly right. You want a competent lawyer protecting you at the beginning of the process...if you hire the lawyer after you have already ruined the case trying to represent yourself...well, that is not a good idea. Just get a lawyer now...and anyone who gives different advice is either stupid, naive, ill-informed, or your enemy.

 

[Kingfish]

What we are talking about is this person's life, his opportunity to enter the medical profession. How much is your opportunity to enter the medical profession worth to you? Personally, I spent about 5 thousand dollars flying around the country during the last six months to go to 10 interviews, including AMCAS costs and secondary fees. Sure, the OP could find a kid who graduated from law school last spring and just passed the bar exam who will ask for a $500 retainer and then wet his pants when he gets that first hard ball letter from the university's lawyer, and I guarantee you that the university's lawyer did not graduate from law school last spring. Take a crash course in reality. You have to fight fire with fire not wet underwear.

He is trying to avoid a suspension, not clear himself from RICO charges. Seriously, take a step back and consider what you are saying. OP, get your parents and go in there, along with maybe a professor who likes you. If your appeal doesn't work its no big deal, its not like you were suspended for drugs. Explain how it was bull**** in your personal statement.

The university probably grabbed your IP address by looking at the address of where you last logged in with your student account. In that case, it could have been from any computer you have used to check your school e-mail or class websites.

Last year my buddy left his account up on my computer. My roommate and I dropped all of his classes and signed him up for west african dance, graduate level chemistry thesis, and salsa dance. We told him before it made a real difference though. Good times.

 

[searun]

He is trying to avoid a suspension, not clear himself from RICO charges. Seriously, take a step back and consider what you are saying. OP, get your parents and go in there, along with maybe a professor who likes you. If your appeal doesn't work its no big deal, its not like you were suspended for drugs. Explain how it was bull**** in your personal statement.

The university probably grabbed your IP address by looking at the address of where you last logged in with your student account. In that case, it could have been from any computer you have used to check your school e-mail or class websites.

Last year my buddy left his account up on my computer. My roommate and I dropped all of his classes and signed him up for west african dance, graduate level chemistry thesis, and salsa dance. We told him before it made a real difference though. Good times.

Well, so far the only folks who have any knowledge of the legal system are myself and Law2Doc and we both agree that the OP needs to get legal advice from an attorney...but if you develop a brain tumor in the next month, get a fifth of Jack Daniels, drink it, and then do brain surgery on yourself using a mirror and a steady hand and hope for a good result.

 

[xylem29]

I was just suspended from school. Apparently, my IP address was used to drop another student from his class. I told them I was somewhere else and provided proof (receipt) but they still believe that I was involved. They told me that it will be on my transcript.

I will appeal, or course, but it does not seem good. They said that unless someone confesses AND prove that they did it, this isn't going to be good for me.


Thoughts?

What a ridiculous accusation! So unless someone can PROVE that they did it, the school will take your IP address as PROOF BEYOND DOUBT that you were responsible?

Please follow the advice of the poster who said that you should find a lawyer - a great one too, b/c your school deserves everything that's going to come to them for treating you like this...

 

[DrMT]

well, i already present my case to the assistant dean. she did her investigation and then found me guilty. i only have one appeal right now and that's to the head dean. if he finds me guilty, then the decision is final.

 

[EastLACoolio777]

funny thing is.... they said... even if i was somewhere else... i couldve, according to them, called a friend from my house and tell him to drop the classes.

Maybe, you are confessing your crime right now However, this is still VERY VERY difficult to prove, so I would get a lawyer and deny your charges at all cost

 

[Kingfish]

Well, so far the only folks who have any knowledge of the legal system are myself and Law2Doc and we both agree that the OP needs to get legal advice from an attorney...but if you develop a brain tumor in the next month, get a fifth of Jack Daniels, drink it, and then do brain surgery on yourself using a mirror and a steady hand and hope for a good result.

Eloquently put. I forgot that your father was a trial attorney and that his knowledge was passed down to you at birth. My father is also an attorney, however I won't be parading that in front of anyone here to get them to spend 5000 real life dollars to avoid a blemish on their transcript. Of course he should get advice from an attorney, but it doesn't need to be Johnny Cochran.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Jesus OP stop talking to the school until you get a lawyer.

 

[st0w]

well, i already present my case to the assistant dean. she did her investigation and then found me guilty. i only have one appeal right now and that's to the head dean. if he finds me guilty, then the decision is final.

Well, now you really shouldn't even be ASKING whether or not you should seek counsel. Get an attorney PRONTO. Before you go anywhere near the dean.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

well, i already present my case to the assistant dean. she did her investigation and then found me guilty. i only have one appeal right now and that's to the head dean. if he finds me guilty, then the decision is final.

DrMT-

We are trying to help you. Really we are, but you need to listen to searun, Law2Doc and probably me (disclaimer: my father is also an attorney, and spent years as a litigator for a super-scary firm called Jones Day )

Here's what you need to do:
1) Do not go to the appeal without a lawyer. Don't even schedule it. In fact, don't even come within 500 feet of the office.
2) Do not contact anyone from the office for now. If anyone tries to contact you, tell them that you will be unable to communicate with them pending the acquisition of appropriate representation.
3) Call your parents, tell them what has happened, and explain that you absolutely must have a lawyer. As someone suggested above, put it on your credit card if necessary.
4) Don't talk to your friends about it, your crush about it, or the homeless guy on the street about it. In fact, you should probably stop posting to us about it! For now, this needs to stay between you, your parents, and your lawyer.

Have you seen the Scrubs episode where Cox tells JD, "Help me help you, newbie, help me help you, help me help you." Yeah, it's like that.

 

[searun]

Eloquently put. I forgot that your father was a trial attorney and that his knowledge was passed down to you at birth. My father is also an attorney, however I won't be parading that in front of anyone here to get them to spend 5000 real life dollars to avoid a blemish on their transcript. Of course he should get advice from an attorney, but it doesn't need to be Johnny Cochran.

Well, Johnny Cochran is dead, but if he was alive, you could not get into his office without $25,000 cash on his desk. And if your father thinks that $5,000 is an exhorbitant retainer, then he must do probate law and has never been inside of a courtroom during his entire career.

 

[DrMT]

im seriously thinking about taking the heat for this one and hoping for a lighter sentence.

 

[Ollie123]

Its obviously your call, but I wouldn't unless you actually did something and aren't telling us.

If all they have is IP I can't imagine that holding up anywhere. They don't even have anything approaching a case against you. Do you know how easy it is to spoof an IP?

 

[durfen]

funny thing is.... they said... even if i was somewhere else... i couldve, according to them, called a friend from my house and tell him to drop the classes.

omg, call your parents already. What's the problem?

What you could've done has nothing to do with what you did do. Remember, innocent until *proven* guilty. The burden of proof is on *them* not *you*. Got it? God I hate bureaucrats.

 

[Kingfish]

Well, Johnny Cochran is dead, but if he was alive, you could not get into his office without $25,000 cash on his desk. And if your father thinks that $5,000 is an exhorbitant retainer, then he must do probate law and has never been inside of a courtroom during his entire career.

Pointing out that my hyperbole is not only unlikely but also impossible doesn't make you look any smarter. Neither does your second statement, even though you use big words like exhorbitant (sp) and probate its nothing more than name calling. I'm done with this, feel free to get the last word in.

OP, I checked with some of my computer geek friends. IP spoofing is probably not what happened for several reasons. Its more likely that you had a trojan but they doubt that also. More likely than not one of your buddies did from your comp. You need to start asking questions or finding new friends.

 

[instigata]

im seriously thinking about taking the heat for this one and hoping for a lighter sentence.

This story sounds kind of fishy. So you apparently didn't commit the crime but you are willing to take the hit even though the school has absolutely no case against you. Oh and don't forget about how the dean automatically assumes you committed the crime by just assuming it was you b/c of the IP address...whatever

 

[BlackSails]

im seriously thinking about taking the heat for this one and hoping for a lighter sentence.

Bad idea. Get a lawyer.

 

[Kingfish]

Its obviously your call, but I wouldn't unless you actually did something and aren't telling us.

If all they have is IP I can't imagine that holding up anywhere. They don't even have anything approaching a case against you. Do you know how easy it is to spoof an IP?

According to my buddies: IP spoofing is not easy at all. It is REALLY simple to spoof outoing packets, but any incoming packets would need to be altered on the university server which is difficult. Whatever that means.

 

[searun]

im seriously thinking about taking the heat for this one and hoping for a lighter sentence.

Then polish up your application for nursing school. And if you are thinking about taking the heat and hoping for a lighter sentence, then perhaps you are guilty and not innocent as you originally portrayed yourself.

 

[baylormed]

Jesus OP stop talking to the school until you get a lawyer.

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Please follow this advice, we are seriously trying to help you.

 

[gonnabmd]

The only reason that you would be considering eating this charge is if you thought you were somehow responsible. If not, consider that the money it will cost you to handle this successfully, i.e. with a lawyer, is truly nothing compared to the headache it will save you in the future. No school will ever believe that you took a lighter sentence because you actually weren't guilty... Fight this, if you accept charges, you will have to report on AMCAS, and this will be considered some kind of dishonesty, etc. Not like drinking or anything stupid like that, this is serious red-flag territory. This is so cut and dry in my mind that the only way I could see you wanting to take the heat and therefore disagree with everyone else on here, is if you do feel responsible. Hell, even if you are responsible, it seems like proving it is near impossible, so still fight it.

 

[Dookter]

This story sounds kind of fishy. So you apparently didn't commit the crime but you are willing to take the hit even though the school has absolutely no case against you. Oh and don't forget about how the dean automatically assumes you committed the crime by just assuming it was you b/c of the IP address...whatever

This doesn't mean this person did anything. I know someone who took the "hit" on a rape charge not long ago to get a few years probation when they had no case against him. Why did he do this? B/c he was putting his life on hold for a LONG time with the prospect of maybe going to prison for something he didn't do.

Keep in mind, this person has been charged with something, and it was upheld in a first appeal. The penalty for confessing might be rather minor. The cost of representation might be a lot. The thought, "So, what if I confess?" is a valid one. I wouldn't confess at all, but I do not think it implies guilt just b/c this person is thinking through his/her options.

 

[durfen]

The OP's school right now is in 'saving face' mode. They know they have no evidence, but they want to suspend him anyway and make an example of him. If the OP just brings his parents, not even a lawyer, instead of hiding, I'm sure the university would figure out that it's not worth it and drop the whole thing. Bureaucrats go for the path of least resistance. Provide some resistance on the path to suspension and they'll go another way.

 

[Ollie123]

Well, until I saw documentation of how they got his IP address, who got it, where from, etc. I would assume they did it the lazy way.

So far, from what I can tell the only evidence is someone told him "We have your IP address". That doesn't prove a damn thing to anyone.

 

[instigata]

This doesn't mean this person did anything. I know someone who took the "hit" on a rape charge not long ago to get a few years probation when they had no case against him. Why did he do this? B/c he was putting his life on hold for a LONG time with the prospect of maybe going to prison for something he didn't do.

Keep in mind, this person has been charged with something, and it was upheld in a first appeal. The penalty for confessing might be rather minor. The cost of representation might be a lot. The thought, "So, what if I confess?" is a valid one. I wouldn't confess at all, but I do not think it implies guilt just b/c this person is thinking through his/her options.

The OP knows exactly how this will effect him/her in the future with regard to gaining admission to medical school. If he/she doesn't fight it, they could practically say goodbye to their future aspirations of becoming a physician. Even with this in mind, he/she decides to take the hit? Give me a break, the only reason I would want to take the hit in this situation to reduce my penalty would be if I actually DID something. In terms of having your life on hold for a "LONG" time, how much more headache will this bring the OP in the future if they do not clear it up now? I won't even answer that since I'm sure you know the answer.

 

[ReachingTruth]

Perphaps Channel 5 (or whatever news channel is around you) would be interested?

Unless you are responsible for this in some way and are taking the hit for that reason, call a lawyer.

 

[Dookter]

The OP knows exactly how this will effect him/her in the future with regard to gaining admission to medical school. If he/she doesn't fight it, they could practically say goodbye to their future aspirations of becoming a physician. Even with this in mind, he/she decides to take the hit? Give me a break, the only reason I would want to take the hit in this situation to reduce my penalty would be if I actually DID something. In terms of having your life on hold for a "LONG" time, how much more headache will this bring the OP in the future if they do not clear it up now? I won't even answer that since I'm sure you know the answer.

I agree that admitting to this would be a really dumb thing to do. I am just saying that thinking about taking the hit doesn't in any way mean this person is guilty. So say this person DID do this? The school still can't prove it. There's no incentive other than a lesser sentence for admitting to the crime.

 

[tgp511]

Some dim witted administrator in central office on a power trip decided to assign you the blame based on evidence he probably doesn't even understand (an ip whatchamajig?), and you're just going to sit there and take it?

How could you consider taking the blame for this, even for a reduced sentence?
Letting this a-hole have his way with you when you are totally innocent should be a crime against any good person's core values.

Have a spine. Fight back. Get a lawyer.

 

[cleothecat]

Sounds a lot more serious. The university should have used a proper system with due process. If the assistant dean has already found you "guilty" based on a "personal investigation" without disclosing the evidence they used then you have no choice.

Get a damn lawyer or forget about medical school in the United States.

Your school is ignoring all due process. You need an exoneration and an unblemished record. If you win, you should consider having as part of the settlement that your lawyer will have the right to review all LOR's or cttee letters sent from the university on your behalf. Administrators have long memories and never like to lose.

 

[BirdmanRA]

The only advice I have is to make sure you know what time frame you are working with. My school only gives Five school days to file an appeal. So whether or not you get a lawyer, do whatever you're going to do within the stipulated time frame outlined in your student handbook. If you miss the deadline for appeal they can royally screw you...and you can basically do nothing else about it. (I don't have any outside legal experience but have been a student representative on our campus honor and judicial board for two years. I'm one of the people who sits on the other side of the table.) Lotsa luck.

 

[Cirrus83]

Perphaps Channel 5 (or whatever news channel is around you) would be interested?

Unless you are responsible for this in some way and are taking the hit for that reason, call a lawyer.

Yeah that's the only other thing that could be helpful in this case, if for some reason you really can't afford a lawyer or something (but seriously, just get a lawyer already and most likely your school will give up almost right away rather than get into a protracted legal battle with you). Show the news station your evidence that you weren't even around, and it'll make the school look like total a-holes.

And then, I suppose you could include a copy of the news story on a dvd for all your apps just in case your school ignores the news.

Easiest way though is seriously just to go get a lawyer. No, maybe not the greatest lawyer ever, but not some random idiot either (seriously, I once had some craptastic lawyer tell me that if I paid him $500 he could get a speeding ticket reduced by 2 whole points...seriously what the hell is the point of paying a lawyer to go do less than what you could do yourself, jeez).

Now, if even after you get a lawyer your school continues to insist that you're guilty, then I might not actually sue since that would get rather expensive, and then resort to maybe convincing random news stations to come save your butt lol.

 

[Cirrus83]

The only advice I have is to make sure you know what time frame you are working with. My school only gives Five school days to file an appeal. So whether or not you get a lawyer, do whatever you're going to do within the stipulated time frame outlined in your student handbook. If you miss the deadline for appeal they can royally screw you...and you can basically do nothing else about it. (I don't have any outside legal experience but have been a student representative on our campus honor and judicial board for two years. I'm one of the people who sits on the other side of the table.) Lotsa luck.

Well, in reality if you have enough money to burn you're free to sue them all you want whether or not it's been 5 days or 20 days. But obviously that's a lousy proposition from a cost point of view.

 

[Cirrus83]

On a side note, before you go to your appeal, there is the possibility that if you can find a techie kind of person to help explain it to the assistant dean (the one that found you guilty) and the head dean that it could easily have been someone else spoofing your IP or something.

Obviously make sure this doesn't use up your appeal or whatever, just maybe convince one of your techie friends to go by themselves or something to try and help you out. It would be most helpful if they were actually capable of spoofing IPs or MAC addresses themselves of course (assuming your school assigns IPs by MAC addresses I mean, it'd be ridiculously easy to clone your MAC and steal your IP), and maybe demonstrated this to the dean.

Anyways, if it doesn't use up your appeal it couldn't hurt that the deans understand that it's possible for someone to clone you. At least that way they'll know that if you sue them it'll be fairly easy to show that there's no solid proof that you did it since anybody could download a MAC switching program and have your IP cloned in a matter of minutes.

 

[AMmd]

can somebody explain to me how you can drop somebody from a class? and even if you can. why cant they put them back in it?

 

[remo]

One of your friends probably did it from your house. If they are going to let you go down in flames you should rat them out to save your own a**.

 

[ldybugg82]

I was just suspended from school. Apparently, my IP address was used to drop another student from his class.

So do you know which student was dropped? Is he gunner enough to do it himself to screw you over?

 

[foofish]

Well, so far the only folks who have any knowledge of the legal system are myself and Law2Doc and we both agree that the OP needs to get legal advice from an attorney...but if you develop a brain tumor in the next month, get a fifth of Jack Daniels, drink it, and then do brain surgery on yourself using a mirror and a steady hand and hope for a good result.

No kidding! The extent of my law education is watching copious Law & Order re-runs, and even I recognize that a) you shouldn't confess to a "crime" you didn't commit, and b) you should get a lawyer.

 

[baylormed]

So do you know which student was dropped? Is he gunner enough to do it himself to screw you over?

Yeah, worth looking into. First of all, you'd have to know his password to get into his system, right? At least in my school you would.

 

[foofish]

can somebody explain to me how you can drop somebody from a class? and even if you can. why cant they put them back in it?

Well, some schools let you register and add/drop classes online...at the school I did my postbacc at, all you needed was your school username and password to access and change your classes.

The issue is clearly not that the school can't fix the kid's schedule, it's that trying to sabotoge another student is a ****y thing to do. It's like if someone steals your car, but the police manage to recover it. Does that mean the car thief shouldn't be charged with a crime? Clearly an extreme example, but...

 

[gotmeds?]

Someone else said it before, but I'll say it again. There's something really fishy about this story. It just doesn't add up. I call shennanigans.

 

[spicedmanna]

funny thing is.... they said... even if i was somewhere else... i couldve, according to them, called a friend from my house and tell him to drop the classes.

Cease all non-essential communications with the school, follow the sound advice offered here and consult with a lawyer immediately.

 

[spicedmanna]

Someone else said it before, but I'll say it again. There's something really fishy about this story. It just doesn't add up. I call shennanigans.

Yeah, I get that feeling, too.

 

[BirdmanRA]

Well, in reality if you have enough money to burn you're free to sue them all you want whether or not it's been 5 days or 20 days. But obviously that's a lousy proposition from a cost point of view.

sorry I didn't specify. Our school policy is that the appeal must be INITIATED within five days. That just means you have to actually notify them that you are appealing within that time frame. It can take as long as necessary to complete the appeal. Yeah you could also argue the fact that a judge can overturn the time stipulation if you miss the window of opportunity...but I was just trying to save one more headache.

 

[dochoov]

im seriously thinking about taking the heat for this one and hoping for a lighter sentence.

The OP must either be an idiot or a troll.

EDIT: Sorry to be so blunt, but I've been reading this thread from the start, and I don't see how anyone with any sense would make such a decision. The OP posted on this thread for what? To tell us of this dire situation and then not heed a single word of advice? It's as if the OP has just decided to get everyone worked up and not listen to a single piece of advice or acknowledge any of the reason provided here.

 

[Funky]

Yeah, I get that feeling, too.

i also have that feeling.

 

[MirrorTodd]

It was still interesting.

 

[DrMT]

it's true but all my friends think i should fess up and get a light sentence.

 

[durfen]

It was still interesting.

troll five.