I was reading the abortion thread

[LuciusVorenus]

and I thought of another one!

Let's say you have 5 patients, all under 18, who have been severely disabled by a traumatic injury/accident. There is currently a very new (hypothetical) treatment involving stem cells that seems very promising and might very well return all lost functions to the 5 disabled patients. You personally, however, are completely opposed to stem cell research, and the families of the children don't know about the treatment. Do you tell the families about the treatment but refer them to another physician who can help them, or just keep quiet.

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[EyEnStein 07]

....are you taking one of those IRB quizzes required for clinical research? Sounds like a question you would find on there...its probably the 2nd one, i think you need consent if its under 18 (most of the time)...but then again..depending on how severe the injuries are...is there enough time for another physician to look at them after referral

 

[NeuroChaos]

Answer is no different than the abortion case. Keep your moral/ethical values away from your professional life. Your duty is to treat patients with the best and latest care available.

 

[bamtuba]

Answer is no different than the abortion case. Keep your moral/ethical values away from your professional life. Your duty is to treat patients with the best and latest care available.

Have to disagree with this.

Professionalism would mean standing by your moral/ethical values (whatever those may be) while finding a way to allow the pt.'s best interests to come first and remaining non-judgmental of their decision.

In this case, if one is against stem-cell use, refer to another physician and ALWAYS keep the pt. fully informed.

There is NOTHING wrong with allowing one's beliefs to remain primary in one's life. This is called being a person of character. Something far too many allow "the majority" to stifle all in the name of not rocking the boat.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

....are you taking one of those IRB quizzes required for clinical research? Sounds like a question you would find on there...its probably the 2nd one, i think you need consent if its under 18 (most of the time)...but then again..depending on how severe the injuries are...is there enough time for another physician to look at them after referral

Is this IRB quiz like the HIPAA quiz where you can just submit the wrong answer and it'll just tell you the right answer. Oh HIPAA, why can't life be like you?

Well let's say these injuries occurred a long time ago (something along the lines of brain damage), so yes another physician has time.

 

[greatnt249]

Answer is no different than the abortion case. Keep your moral/ethical values away from your professional life. Your duty is to treat patients with the best and latest care available.

Doctors are not merely specialized technicians that you go to in order to seek out whatever action you want performed; they exercise moral autonomy as well. In this case, if you are morally opposed to the treatment option, I would recommend a referral to another physician who would perform the procedure.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Doctors are not merely specialized technicians that you go to in order to seek out whatever action you want performed; they exercise moral autonomy as well. In this case, if you are morally opposed to the treatment option, I would recommend a referral to another physician who would perform the procedure.

But, like people say with abortion, being morally opposed to a treatment might also include being morally opposed to providing the patient with means to seek that treatment. For example, by providing a referral.

 

[FlowLimited]

But, like people say with abortion, being morally opposed to a treatment might also include being morally opposed to providing the patient with means to seek that treatment. For example, by providing a referral.

So you're talking about a physician who is morally opposed to providing their patient with the best possible care?

 

[greatnt249]

But, like people say with abortion, being morally opposed to a treatment might also include being morally opposed to providing the patient with means to seek that treatment. For example, by providing a referral.

By not referring a patient to another physician capable of providing an effective treatment modality that they are seeking, I would say that the acting physician is in violation of informed consent. It's up to the patient to decide if they want to go ahead and act on the doctor's recommendation for referral.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

So you're talking about a physician who is morally opposed to providing their patient with the best possible care?

I don't know any doctors who would actually do something like that (don't really know any doctors at all actually ) but when I talk to people about abortion/stem cells they do say that if they were a doctor they wouldn't refer patients, comparing it to accessory to murder. Sooo...you never know

By not referring a patient to an effective treatment modality that they are seeking, I would say that the acting physician is in violation of informed consent.

Would that work with NOT providing something though? How would they prove that you knew about it but never brought it up?

 

[greatnt249]

Would that work with NOT providing something though? How would they prove that the knew about it but never brought it up?

If the patient ever found out through other channels about a treatment option that you withheld from their knowledge, best of luck if they decide to take you to court. It's the physician's job to make sure his/her patient is aware of their options; it's the patient's autonomous role to decide their course of treatment or if they even want treatment at all (except under special circumstances).

As for those who choose to narrowly view stem-cell research as being an "accessory to murder," they should really look into what stem-cell research actually is before automatically assuming it to be embryonic in origin.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

oh! oh! what about this one...

You're a doctor, and a patient comes in with a bleeding arm. as you approach the patient, he goes, "if you come near me I'll kill you!" But it turns out you're superman so he can't kill you. Using your X-ray vision you can see he has a bullet wound. Then you realize the patient is actually your secret son you had with your wife's sister's brother-in-law's wife that you tried to abort to harvest stem cells from. But you don't want this secret to be public so now you need to try and cover this up. And there is some dilemma about the good for many vs good for one. WHAT DO YOU DO!??!

 

[LuciusVorenus]

As for those who choose to narrowly view stem-cell research as being an "accessory to murder," they should really look into what stem-cell research actually is before automatically assuming it to be embryonic in origin.

If people actually looked into things a lot of our problems would be solved

 

[LuciusVorenus]

oh! oh! what about this one...

You're a doctor, and a patient comes in with a bleeding arm. as you approach the patient, he goes, "if you come near me I'll kill you!" But it turns out you're superman so he can't kill you. Using your X-ray vision you can see he has a bullet wound. Then you realize the patient is actually your secret son you had with your wife's sister's brother-in-law's wife that you tried to abort to harvest stem cells from. But you don't want this secret to be public so now you need to try and cover this up. And there is some dilemma about the good for many vs good for one. WHAT DO YOU DO!??!

QUICK! EAT EVERYONE TO HIDE THE EVIDENCE!!!1one!!1

 

[greatnt249]

If people actually looked into things a lot of our problems would be solved

Touche.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

QUICK! EAT EVERYONE TO HIDE THE EVIDENCE!!!1one!!1

but what if they have an ORGY IN YOUR STOMACH?! do you separate them?!?!?!

 

[LuciusVorenus]

but what if they have an ORGY IN YOUR STOMACH?! do you separate them?!?!?!

Join in
duhhhh

 

[RogueUnicorn]

well the followup to that then, is, what if the orgy moved to your rectum? do you still join?

 

[LuciusVorenus]

These are getting pretty tough
Will it cause a tear? Will the tear heal on its own or do I have to seek treatment for it? How much will the treatment cost? Will it cost less than the amount I normally have to pay to hire people off the streets to enjoy such festivities??

 

[mvenus929]

As for those who choose to narrowly view stem-cell research as being an "accessory to murder," they should really look into what stem-cell research actually is before automatically assuming it to be embryonic in origin.

I was just about to ask why someone (especially someone going into the medical field) would make a blanket statement about being opposed to stem cell research.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

These are getting pretty tough
Will it cause a tear? Will the tear heal on its own or do I have to seek treatment for it? How much will the treatment cost? Will it cost less than the amount I normally have to pay to hire people off the streets to enjoy such festivities??

so decision is purely pragmatic for you?!?!?!! how dare you! you want to be a doctor, you need to be more compassionate. i've been in rectums for 2 years and i know for a FACT you don't belong in medicine. you would make a terrible doctor.


edit - and we've now completed the ethical dilemma thread cycle of SDN

 

[LuciusVorenus]

i've been in rectums for 2 years.


edit - and we've now completed the ethical dilemma thread cycle of SDN