I'd like to ask a few questions :)

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spicykimchi

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10+ Year Member
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I find you people to be very intelligent and helpful, and I've decided to come to you with some questions I had:

-Is a veterinary internship or residency as time consuming as vet school? Why or why not?

-Workloadwise, is getting a PhD as hard as vet school? Does it depend on what PhD? Or does no PhD even compare to vet school?

-How hard is biochemistry if someone got A's in general chemistry and organic chemistry? Just depends?

Thank you in advance.
 
I can't answer the first two, but I can offer my input on the third one. I got an A in both semesters of general chemistry, then organic came along and I ended up with 2 C's. Organic was definitely not my thing--I absolutely hated every second of it.
My biochem class really didn't deal with a lot of the things that I struggled with in organic. No mechanisms, very few reactions. I came out with a B in biochem.
I'm sure that classes vary a little depending on the school, but if you got A's in both organic and general chem, I think you should be fine.
 
My opinion on the biochem question: I got A's and B's in Gen Chem, straight A's in O-Chem, and squeaked by with a 2.0 in Biochem. My teacher was terrible, so I'd say ask around at your school and try to get a "good" teacher and you should be OK.
 
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-Is a veterinary internship or residency as time consuming as vet school? Why or why not?

More. Interns are often in the hospital 10-12 hours a day, plus some time on weekends. And they usually have shifts of in-house call where they are in the hospital overnight. In some cases you are literally either sleeping or working for days at a time.

Residents vary depending on the specialty. For medicine and surgery it's usually 10-12 hours a day with at least weekend morning rounds. You usually don't have in-house call but are on call for emergencies so they may have to come in at night. And even if you don't have to come in, you're usually getting a few phone calls a night from ICU about your patients. And even if you don't get called, you can't leave town, drink much or other fun stuff. Then you have reading about cases, studying for boards, writing, and a research project.

Other residencies are not as busy, such as derm or pathology but you still have at least 8 hour days.

I never spent that much time in class, labs and studying in vet. school. Plus it's not nearly as stressful -- nobody cries, dies or yells at you in anatomy lab ... or at least not as much.

Workloadwise, is getting a PhD as hard as vet school? Does it depend on what PhD? Or does no PhD even compare to vet school?

I think it's less. You are usually only taking 1-2 classes a semester so the volume is not anything like in vet. school. The research can be stressful and time-consuming, depending on the project and how good you major advisor is.
 
I think it's less. You are usually only taking 1-2 classes a semester so the volume is not anything like in vet. school. The research can be stressful and time-consuming, depending on the project and how good you major advisor is.

Classes aren't the focus of a Ph.D. though. The workload comes with juggling those courses + teaching + research responsibilities, and then juggling studying for QE + teaching + research, and then trying to get your research to work out to make a meaningful contribution to the field. Yes, a PI will make a significant impact on the day to day life of a Ph.D. student, but overall the workload you take on is correlated to whether or not you finish, and how quickly you do so. And even at the most prestigious and selective Ph.D. programs (which are more selective than vet school), a much higher proportion of people who enter the program do not finish than in vet school.

At least in vet school you KNOW where you stand and what the next stressor will be. And the exams come and go whether you study for them or not. In a Ph.D. program, it's all on you. And this can be a lot harder than vet school in a lot of ways.
 
Classes aren't the focus of a Ph.D. though. The workload comes with juggling those courses + teaching + research responsibilities, and then juggling studying for QE + teaching + research, and then trying to get your research to work out to make a meaningful contribution to the field. Yes, a PI will make a significant impact on the day to day life of a Ph.D. student, but overall the workload you take on is correlated to whether or not you finish, and how quickly you do so. And even at the most prestigious and selective Ph.D. programs (which are more selective than vet school), a much higher proportion of people who enter the program do not finish than in vet school.

At least in vet school you KNOW where you stand and what the next stressor will be. And the exams come and go whether you study for them or not. In a Ph.D. program, it's all on you. And this can be a lot harder than vet school in a lot of ways.

👍

my classmates ask me this a lot.
I've only just finished my first semester of veterinary school but so far vet school is easier than my experience with completing my PhD. But it's hard to convey how it's easier because it's inherently different.

I spend much more time in the lecture hall than I ever did as a PhD student, but there is less mental anguish so far in veterinary school. When you're responsible for a project succeeding or failing you spend all of your time wondering what you're doing wrong...is the whole idea wrong and thus destined to fail...or are you messing up somehow? You never know when you're going to be done/graduate and that's very difficult to deal with. On the other hand I spend a lot of time in the classroom/anatomy lab in vet school and studying. But the material is there to be learned, it's all presented to you and it's your job to learn it. For me, that is much easier to deal with than research and it's endless uncertainties.

As a vet student I know I just have to pass my classes and I will be advancing to the next semester. Do that, and in 4 years I graduate! That's amazing! Throw in the fact that I get mandatory holidays/vacations and I'm in heaven!

As a graduate student I consistently worked 60+ hour weeks, worked 7 days a week, often on holidays...I've spent every christmas and new years eve and 4th of july in the lab for the last 6 years. As a veterinary student I get 3 weeks at christmas! thanksgiving break! spring break! 2.5 months in the summer?!?! haha it's unbelievable.

Of course, tests are stressful but even the worst test I've had so far was not as bad as the oral examinations that you get in graduate school.

Thats not to say that vet school is easy. cause of course its not. It's just different and I realize that it is very tough for some of my classmates. I think that vet school would be much harder for me as well had I not gone through graduate school first. If there is one thing graduate school does, it makes you mentally tough.

I'll let you know if my opinion changes as I get deeper and deeper into vet school but as of this moment, graduate school wins as being tougher/more demanding
 
Very interesting and insightful responses so far 🙂

Hey the "mental toughness" thing got me thinking...I've been wanting to improve my mental toughness for years. How did you guys become tough? Any tips on what I could do?
 
As a vet student I know I just have to pass my classes and I will be advancing to the next semester. Do that, and in 4 years I graduate! That's amazing! Throw in the fact that I get mandatory holidays/vacations and I'm in heaven!

As a graduate student I consistently worked 60+ hour weeks, worked 7 days a week, often on holidays...I've spent every christmas and new years eve and 4th of july in the lab for the last 6 years. As a veterinary student I get 3 weeks at christmas! thanksgiving break! spring break! 2.5 months in the summer?!?! haha it's unbelievable.

This is the best part, hands down! I find myself looking for genetics-related stuff to do over the last couple of weeks because I'm so unaccustomed to turning "off" over the holidays.

Thats not to say that vet school is easy. cause of course its not. It's just different and I realize that it is very tough for some of my classmates. I think that vet school would be much harder for me as well had I not gone through graduate school first. If there is one thing graduate school does, it makes you mentally tough.

I'll let you know if my opinion changes as I get deeper and deeper into vet school but as of this moment, graduate school wins as being tougher/more demanding

Yeah, I feel the same way. And I wasn't even in a Ph.D. program, only MS. Vet school is quite demanding too, but just in such a different way. It may still be some of the novelty of having free time (even if a lot of it is absorbed by studying) before 7-8 pm almost every day and on weekends, getting constant feedback on my progress and other such things, but so far I feel like grad school was harder.

OP: as far as "mental toughness" I really think it's just a function of experience. Personally, I feel the biggest thing that's helped me in vet school aside from the tangible scientific background I've gotten over the years prior is that I am used to not being told the whole story and having to make inferences on my own, and so I am more comfortable with a little bit of uncertainty. You don't really get that in undergrad a whole lot and I feel like it's helped me...
 
As someone who is finishing their PhD (hopefully defending in Febuary) and in their second year of vet school ... I have to agree with the others.

Vet school and PhD school are very different. In vet school you learn a little about a lot of different things ... in grad school you learn a TON about a (relatively) few things. In vet school I always know when my exams are, what I need to do to pass them ... it's very methodolical ... 1+1 always = 2. Although it was annadjustment learning how to cram for multiple choice exams after taking essay type exams for so long. For my PhD there were less classes and less exams but there was never an end. there was never a day where I didn't have to do anything because I was between exams or semesters ... there's always research to be done, manuscripts to work on, animals to check...

If I had to pick a harder one I'd say PhD, but they are just very different.