Idaho COM

[giguerex35]

Does anybody know any information about the new Idaho COM opening? Their website says

"The Proposed Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine (ICOM) is in pre-accreditation status on May 4, 2017 and can not solicit nor accept applications for students until provisional accreditation is achieved."

Does that mean on May 4th they will say whether they can accept applications? and will it be through AACOMAS/will it be for this cycle too becasue they also stated " see below" which makes me think it will be for this cycle. Any input is appreciated

ICOM plans to open its doors in 2018 to its first class of medical students (graduating class of 2022). We are on track for that opening date in our hiring of exceptional faculty, program development, facilities and other planning, and pursuit of provisional accreditation.

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[workaholic181]

Does anybody know any information about the new Idaho COM opening? Their website says

"The Proposed Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine (ICOM) is in pre-accreditation status on May 4, 2017 and can not solicit nor accept applications for students until provisional accreditation is achieved."

Does that mean on May 4th they will say whether they can accept applications? and will it be through AACOMAS/will it be for this cycle too becasue they also stated " see below" which makes me think it will be for this cycle. Any input is appreciated

ICOM plans to open its doors in 2018 to its first class of medical students (graduating class of 2022). We are on track for that opening date in our hiring of exceptional faculty, program development, facilities and other planning, and pursuit of provisional accreditation.

It means that they received "pre accreditation status" on may 4, 2017. They are currently waiting to receive "provisional accreditation" and until they do, can't accept any applications.

They seem to suggest as you state that they would ideally be able to accept apps later this cycle but who knows when this provisional status will be given to them.

 

[giguerex35]

It means that they received "pre accreditation status" on may 4, 2017. They are currently waiting to receive "provisional accreditation" and until they do, can't accept any applications.

They seem to suggest as you state that they would ideally be able to accept apps later this cycle but who knows when this provisional status will be given to them.

Thanks should I just keep checking their website to see if they will open or how else would I know if/when they will be accepting applications for this cycle?

 

[workaholic181]

Thanks should I just keep checking their website to see if they will open or how else would I know if/when they will be accepting applications for this cycle?

Yea I imagine it would get some buzz on sdn too but otherwise I guess that's the only way you'll know.

 

[bears1992]

The DO I shadowed is the friend of the dean for that school. When I shadowed him last year, he said that school was going to open for the 2018 cycle. Their website says they broke ground on their school a few months ago and are scheduled to have it finished for the August 2018 class. I doubt investors would be on board if there was not a guarantee that they would be open for business in 2018 (it's a for-profit).

 

[HanSoloYolo]

I wonder how late in the application game they would open up ... Looking at their website they seem to want their students to be primary care doctors in Idaho. I wonder how they'll do.

 

[bears1992]

I wonder how late in the application game they would open up ... Looking at their website they seem to want their students to be primary care doctors in Idaho. I wonder how they'll do.

There was a medical school that opened up late in the cycle (I think it was in California) and they had almost Caribbean like stats for their first class. I imagine if Idaho opens up around October-November then they will seriously suffer from a lack of qualified applications because:

a) most the good applicants have been accepted already
b) brand new school
c) undesirable location
d) DO school

They are going to have a rough time filling their class with decent applicants, especially if they are going to have a heavy regional bias like they say.

 

[Goro]

Does anybody know any information about the new Idaho COM opening? Their website says

"The Proposed Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine (ICOM) is in pre-accreditation status on May 4, 2017 and can not solicit nor accept applications for students until provisional accreditation is achieved."

Does that mean on May 4th they will say whether they can accept applications? and will it be through AACOMAS/will it be for this cycle too becasue they also stated " see below" which makes me think it will be for this cycle. Any input is appreciated

ICOM plans to open its doors in 2018 to its first class of medical students (graduating class of 2022). We are on track for that opening date in our hiring of exceptional faculty, program development, facilities and other planning, and pursuit of provisional accreditation.

Re-read the bold and tell me what you think it means.

Have you taken MCAT yet?

 

[HanSoloYolo]

There was a medical school that opened up late in the cycle (I think it was in California) and they had almost Caribbean like stats for their first class. I imagine if Idaho opens up around October-November then they will seriously suffer from a lack of qualified applications because:

a) most the good applicants have been accepted already
b) brand new school
c) undesirable location
d) DO school

They are going to have a rough time filling their class with decent applicants, especially if they are going to have a heavy regional bias like they say.

That sounds like bad board scores and possibly bad rotations. I guess we'll see in the next year or two how things play out.

 

[bears1992]

That sounds like bad board scores and possibly bad rotations. I guess we'll see in the next year or two how things play out.

It's a for profit school so they are probably just concerned with getting a full class of tuition paying students right now.

 

[Dr. Hopeamine]

Whoa, why is everyone saying this is an undesirable location? Last I checked, Idaho was the hub of America. Viewpoint - Foreign investment for Idaho, med school takes shape (14:00) if you are interested in learning more.

 

[giguerex35]

Re-read the bold and tell me what you think it means.

Have you taken MCAT yet?

i have taken the mcat waiting for scores

 

[deleted480308]

There was a medical school that opened up late in the cycle (I think it was in California) and they had almost Caribbean like stats for their first class. I imagine if Idaho opens up around October-November then they will seriously suffer from a lack of qualified applications because:

a) most the good applicants have been accepted already
b) brand new school
c) undesirable location
d) DO school

They are going to have a rough time filling their class with decent applicants, especially if they are going to have a heavy regional bias like they say.

You migh not be impressed with the students but as a US med school they can open a week before class and fill up

 

[bears1992]

You migh not be impressed with the students but as a US med school they can open a week before class and fill up

I'm not saying they won't have a problem filling spots, I just think they will have a problem finding low risk applicants.

 

[Goro]

i have taken the mcat waiting for scores

I'd be a little concerned about CARS.

 

[BombsAway]

I'd be a little concerned about CARS.

You having a bad day?

 

[Mad Jack]

I wonder how late in the application game they would open up ... Looking at their website they seem to want their students to be primary care doctors in Idaho. I wonder how they'll do.

"Primary care" is the "I just want to help people" of medical school marketing to legislatures. They want to train good doctors that will practice well, that it's a DO school and many will end up in primary care is a bonus easy selling point for the school to get grants, tax breaks, and other funds, as well as public support. It's a for-profit school, they want one thing, and that's money, and a consistent stream of it to boot.

 

[Goro]

You having a bad day?

I get nervous when posters have trouble reading and understanding simple things.

 

[giguerex35]

I get nervous when posters have trouble reading and understanding simple things.

well theres no need for that i simply misread the post and would expect you of all people on here to be the one to help before ridiculing (as you have helped me) but...

 

[Goro]

well theres no need for that i simply misread the post and would expect you of all people on here to be the one to help before ridiculing (as you have helped me) but...

Just be careful out there. I have read too many posts from distraught SDNers about how they misread an app's instructions and *poof* there went that school. And in all seriousness, when doctors make mistakes like that in charting, malpractice lawyers grow fatter and richer.

 

[giguerex35]

Just be careful out there. I have read too many posts from distraught SDNers about how they misread an app's instructions and *poof* there went that school. And in all seriousness, when doctors make mistakes like that in charting, malpractice lawyers grow fatter and richer.

ah i see. From that point of view i see your point. thanks for the input.

 

[HanSoloYolo]

Whoa, why is everyone saying this is an undesirable location? Last I checked, Idaho was the hub of America. Viewpoint - Foreign investment for Idaho, med school takes shape (14:00) if you are interested in learning more.

I was a little skeptical of ICOM, but after watching the video I am able to see the purpose of ICOM. The dean articulated the points fairly well and looks like the planning and logistics are solid. I do wonder how rotations are going to go considering they want to rotate their students around five states. I wonder how secure they are.

 

[Dr. Hopeamine]

I was a little skeptical of ICOM, but after watching the video I am able to see the purpose of ICOM. The dean articulated the points fairly well and looks like the planning and logistics are solid. I do wonder how rotations are going to go considering they want to rotate their students around five states. I wonder how secure they are.

Yeah we will see. PNWU had pretty solid residency placement for their first years, and it sounds like most of the residency spots that are currently available aren't getting filled up by stateside schools. I know there are concerns, but at the end of the day, first year class out of this school will be doctors.

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

This will be another DO school that will pump out 150 DOs a year with 0-5% staying the state to continue postgraduate work.

 

[bears1992]

If this school is really still planning on opening for the 2018 cycle, they better hurry. I imagine most students who already sent out primaries aren't even going to notice if this school opens for business. The applicant pool is going to be very thin.

 

[Dr. Hopeamine]

That's what I have come to recognize. They have already committed to take some 150 kids for August 2018, and they are still planning on doing so based on what I have heard. I'm sure they will still attempt to take an August 2018 class just based on the for-profit status.

 

[Dr. Hopeamine]

But like I have said previously, I have been given the impression that they won't receive their provisional accreditation until late 2017/early 2018

 

[bears1992]

That's what I have come to recognize. They have already committed to take some 150 kids for August 2018, and they are still planning on doing so based on what I have heard. I'm sure they will still attempt to take an August 2018 class just based on the for-profit status.

Man, opening up to accept primaries in 2018 is going to be rough. I doubt they will ever release their matriculate stats for that class. I imagine they would look something close to mine.

 

[HanSoloYolo]

Man, opening up to accept primaries in 2018 is going to be rough. I doubt they will ever release their matriculate stats for that class. I imagine they would look something close to mine.

I think they would still have a decent applicant pool with some kids with average stats not getting any interviews/waitlisted, they'll just send an app their way once they open their primaries. I'm pretty sure I'll still send my app here, but the I do agree that the first class should have interesting stats. Also Idaho isn't the most attractive location, but alas being a doctor knows no boundaries (in the US).

 

[bears1992]

I think they would still have a decent applicant pool with some kids with average stats not getting any interviews/waitlisted, they'll just send an app their way once they open their primaries. I'm pretty sure I'll still send my app here, but the I do agree that the first class should have interesting stats. Also Idaho isn't the most attractive location, but alas being a doctor knows no boundaries (in the US).

I agree but unless you're on SDN or picking from the school list on AACOMAS, there is really no way to know that ICOM is accepting apps. If they accept primaries January 2018, I bet they would get less than 1000 apps.

 

[HanSoloYolo]

I agree but unless you're on SDN or picking from the school list on AACOMAS, there is really no way to know that ICOM is accepting apps. If they accept primaries January 2018, I bet they would get less than 1000 apps.

You're right actually I didn't think about it that way, but hey ... less competition am I right? Idaho here we go!

 

[giguerex35]

ya i think the only thing they have pushing for them to open is the for profit status

 

[deleted480308]

ya i think the only thing they have pushing for them to open is the for profit status

Non profits make money too.....once you've started paying out in salary, you want to hasten the income

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

I wonder if this school would offer scholarships/cheap tuition in order to attract more candidates. Anyone know what tuition will be?

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[Cranjis McBasketball]

I wonder if this school would offer scholarships/cheap tuition in order to attract more candidates. Anyone know what tuition will be?

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It looks like itll be about 40-45k and preference will be given to Idaho residents and the surrounding states that lack a med school

 

[bears1992]

I wonder if this school would offer scholarships/cheap tuition in order to attract more candidates. Anyone know what tuition will be?

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It's for-profit so I doubt that would go over well with investors.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

It's for-profit so I doubt that would go over well with investors.

That's an interesting point. Dan Burrell, who funded the school in New Mexico, is also funding ICOM. I wonder what his motives are for backing these schools.

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[Wjldenver]

That's an interesting point. Dan Burrell, who funded the school in New Mexico, is also funding ICOM. I wonder what his motives are for backing these schools.

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It is an investment which generates free cash flow which goes into his pocket. So I would not expect any tuition discounts here.


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[Johnny Appleseed]

It is an investment which generates free cash flow which goes into his pocket. So I would not expect any tuition discounts here.


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Its really not that profitable of an investment. He could make much more money investing in other markets/avenues. This point was talked about at my Burrell interview. The business model for for profit medical schools is not designed to make people mega rich (that's why it's so hard to find investors). It's just the most practical model for schools that can't get funding from the government. I personally think Burrell is trying to gain influence for a political future, but I have no idea.

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[bears1992]

Its really not that profitable of an investment. He could make much more money investing in other markets/avenues. This point was talked about at my Burrell interview. The business model for for profit medical schools is not designed to make people mega rich (that's why it's so hard to find investors). It's just the most practical model for schools that can't get funding from the government. I personally think Burrell is trying to gain influence for a political future, but I have no idea.

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Even if the school went the for-profit route only as a means for funding, the school still must put investors first. Not to say that for-profit schools are bad (RVU has some impressive pass rates for their first class) it's just that the school is backed by a group that looks at this investment just as they would for any other investment. Investors will always be looking for ways to increase profit, and unfortunately the only way to do that is to either get more money from students, or decrease funding for the program, neither of which benefit the student. A non-profit school will be much more willing to make decisions that benefit the students.

Rotation sites are a great example. A non-profit school will be much more willing to shell out additional funding for sites that will better prepare students for residency. A for-profit will be much more likely to go with cheaper clinical sites as this is money that goes straight back into the pocket of the investors.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Even if the school went the for-profit route only as a means for funding, the school still must put investors first. Not to say that for-profit schools are bad (RVU has some impressive pass rates for their first class) it's just that the school is backed by a group that looks at this investment just as they would for any other investment. Investors will always be looking for ways to increase profit, and unfortunately the only way to do that is to either get more money from students, or decrease funding for the program, neither of which benefit the student. A non-profit school will be much more willing to make decisions that benefit the students.

Rotation sites are a great example. A non-profit school will be much more willing to shell out additional funding for sites that will better prepare students for residency. A for-profit will be much more likely to go with cheaper clinical sites as this is money that goes straight back into the pocket of the investors.

I understand all that. What I'm saying is the "investors" are basically one guy, Dan Burrell. There is not a panel of 50 people expecting a huge profit from the first year of business. Burrell is already mega rich, with mega rich in-laws, a mega rich wife, and a super successful real estate/mining company in New Mexico. I'm wondering if he may have ulterior motives other than just making boat loads of money as there are other more profitable ways for Burrell to invest money.

He worked for Al Gore and is very close to John Kerry. My guess is he's planning a political future and wants to show how his investments are helping the underserved, but I could be way off.

It's important to realize even "non-profit" schools have to create a profit, otherwise they are unsustainable. BCOM's Dean stressed that though they are a "for profit" school, Dan Burrell is not looking to make quick money and he is funding the school more to help the community. He even said it could take up to a decade for Burrell to realize any significant profits.

I think it's important to realize who the "group of investors" are. I don't think this guy is just out to make a profit, but I could be wrong. He might be a greedy SOB who doesn't care about students, I just don't get that vibe.



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[HanSoloYolo]

I did a quick google search on Dan Burrell and I definitely see him going the politics route. Opening a medical school in underserved areas with your name in it, creates big influence. Physicians who are practicing in different states will have graduated from Burrell COM. He's young and only 37 and is also planning to build an osteopathic school in Montana and talked with the governor/set up a dean and president and looked into the logistics of setting up a school in the state.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

I did a quick google search on Dan Burrell and I definitely see him going the politics route. Opening a medical school in underserved areas with your name in it, creates big influence. Physicians who are practicing in different states will have graduated from Burrell COM. He's young and only 37 and is also planning to build an osteopathic school in Montana and talked with the governor/set up a dean and president and looked into the logistics of setting up a school in the state.

From what I understand the Montana school fell through so he went to Idaho. But I share your thoughts exactly. I think he's made his money and is now trying to gain influence and set himself up for a career in politics. I don't think he's a greedy investor looking to maximize his profits at the expense of medical students.

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[bears1992]

From what I understand the Montana school fell through so he went to Idaho. But I share your thoughts exactly. I think he's made his money and is now trying to gain influence and set himself up for a career in politics. I don't think he's a greedy investor looking to maximize his profits at the expense of medical students.

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Then why not just make it a non-profit like every other rich guy who's funding a school for philanthropist reasons? If he is the one wanting to open up a medical school, the for-profit makes even less sense. It's understandable to go that route if you need money from investors to open your school but if you're opening up your own school with your own money, the only reason to make it a for-profit is if you are looking to make money. I'm not buying the whole "I've made my money and now I want to do something for my community... by opening up as many for-profit medical schools as I can".

If I only got a single acceptance and it was to a for-profit school, I would absolutely go, I applied to BCOM, and RVU and the "for-profit" status doesn't really matter to me if it means I'll get to become a doctor. It comes with the understanding that as a student at one of those schools, the quality of my program would be weighed with the amount of money it will generate that will be pumped out of the school instead of back into it.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Then why not just make it a non-profit like every other rich guy who's funding a school for philanthropist reasons? If he is the one wanting to open up a medical school, the for-profit makes even less sense. It's understandable to go that route if you need money from investors to open your school but if you're opening up your own school with your own money, the only reason to make it a for-profit is if you are looking to make money. I'm not buying the whole "I've made my money and now I want to do something for my community... by opening up as many for-profit medical schools as I can".

If I only got a single acceptance and it was to a for-profit school, I would absolutely go, I applied to BCOM, and RVU and the "for-profit" status doesn't really matter to me if it means I'll get to become a doctor. It comes with the understanding that as a student at one of those schools, the quality of my program would be weighed with the amount of money it will generate that will be pumped out of the school instead of back into it.

The for profit status could be for many reasons including funding and supporting the local community by paying taxes (one of the reasons BCOM claims they sought for profit is to benefit the very poor City of Las Cruces).

I'm not saying the guy doesn't want to make money I just don't think money is his primary objective. If it was there are many other more lucrative options. Unfortunately non profit status does not equal "do what is in students best interest." Non profit schools still must create a profit to sustain themselves, especially if they are lacking donors. So the same concerns still apply at non-profit schools (compromise education e.g. not pay for rotation sites, raise tuition, etc). Both are businesses, I'm more interested in how those businesses are run than I am in their profit status.

I could be way off on Dan Burrell he might just be out to make a buck, I'm just saying my opinion is that is not his main objective.

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[BombsAway]

@bears1992 your anti for-profit argument assumes that non-profit schools are somehow intrinsically more student focused and less fiscally focused. In my experience that is not the case. If it's a DO school, and it's not a state school, it's all about the benjamins baby.

 

[deleted600623]

Are the for profit DO schools worth applying to? Is there any reason to think that they could be suddenly shut down for any particular reason because of investing reasons? I've always thought for profit institutions were extremely dangerous to go to. If that's the case, I won't be able to apply to RVU which is one of my top DO schools to apply to.

 

[bears1992]

Are the for profit DO schools worth applying to? Is there any reason to think that they could be suddenly shut down for any particular reason because of investing reasons? I've always thought for profit institutions were extremely dangerous to go to. If that's the case, I won't be able to apply to RVU which is one of my top DO schools to apply to.

They are worth applying to. I applied to RVU and BCOM. I just get a sense that non-profits are out to help the community while for-profits are out to help themselves. Either way, both types of schools have 3rd party standards that must be met so in the end, I doubt you'll find much of a difference between the two besides tuition.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That's an interesting point. Dan Burrell, who funded the school in New Mexico, is also funding ICOM. I wonder what his motives are for backing these schools.

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Its really not that profitable of an investment

I beg to differ

Are the for profit DO schools worth applying to? Is there any reason to think that they could be suddenly shut down for any particular reason because of investing reasons? I've always thought for profit institutions were extremely dangerous to go to. If that's the case, I won't be able to apply to RVU which is one of my top DO schools to apply to.

Yes, BCOM will turn out alright and RVU produces very well

I just get a sense that non-profits are out to help the community while for-profits are out to help themselves. Either way

No. Non-profits are just as much out to help themselves

 

[deleted831695]

@bears1992 your anti for-profit argument assumes that non-profit schools are somehow intrinsically more student focused and less fiscally focused. In my experience that is not the case. If it's a DO school, and it's not a state school, it's all about the benjamins baby.

There need to be more state DOs. Also there's something that bothers me when a school has to send students hundreds of miles away to different states for rotations, and a good portion of the students leave the region for residency.