Ideological Differences - DO vs. MD

[nvshelat]

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I hesitate to use DO vs. MD anywhere in the title of a thread, but here goes...
A friend of mine told me that DOs treat the patient, not the illness. But a professor recently told me that there is little ideological differences left between the schools, and it's really up to the individual physician on how they view medicine. So I thought I'd ask those of you in DO schools if there is an ideological distinction between the schools (MD and DO)?
Thanks,
Nirav

 

[dr.z]

There maybe a distinction at schools, however, a lot will depend on the person. Not everyone believes in DO philosophy even at DO schools. Some allopath may like the DO philosophy. I would say it is hard to generalize that statement.

 

[Gibby Haynes]

I have to agree that there doesn't seem to be much difference. The treating the patient not the disease montra is getting tired as well. I mean, if you treat the disease don't you also treat the person. How you approach the patient (i.e., bedside manner) is going to be different between individual doctors. There is a standard of care, and regarless if you are MD or DO, if you do not adhere to it there will be many malpractice lawyers salivating at the chance to have your ass up on the witness stand.

 

[skypilot]

People become the doctor they are going to be during their residencies. Since most DOs (over 65%) are doing allopathic residencies their cannot be a huge difference.

 

[MoosePilot]

What does "Treat the patient not the disease." really mean? If the patient can't see that philosophy reflected in some difference of action, then it's just a saying. What actions do DOs typically do in a clinical setting that demonstrates this philosophy?

My shadowing two DOs left me thinking this is bunk. They both discussed the condition with the patient, asked questions, and made a diagnosis just as I have experienced with MDs. I thought one of them noticed flat feet more readily and advised some runners with pain to get some orthotic shoes, but that was the only DO difference I saw.

 

[Karina]

When I shadowed a DO in the Emergency Room, he told me himself...it is more a historical difference. He says he enjoyed learning about OMM but in real life "there is just to time to do manipulation". And to be honest with you, he is a great physician, but I don't think an MD would've done/said anything differently to his patients

Karina

 

[Gibby Haynes]

People become the doctor they are going to be during their residencies. Since most DOs (over 65%) are doing allopathic residencies their cannot be a huge difference.

This most definitely has had a major impact and both professions are very similar. Thus, this has become a very perplexing question that I have found no real good answer for. I think that the notion that "DOs treat people, not the disease" implies in the very least that all MDs do is treat the disease. This idea is not only ascinine, but also insulting to MDs. My response to this dogma is this, if not for the person there would be no disease. Human kind and disease will forever be intertwined and you cannot have one without the other.

 

[medic170]

This most definitely has had a major impact and both professions are very similar. Thus, this has become a very perplexing question that I have found no real good answer for. I think that the notion that "DOs treat people, not the disease" implies in the very least that all MDs do is treat the disease. This idea is not only ascinine, but also insulting to MDs. My response to this dogma is this, if not for the person there would be no disease. Human kind and disease will forever be intertwined and you cannot have one without the other.

Haven't you heard. MD's can't practice holistic medicine. Only DO's have the ability to integrate a holistic philosphy in their practice. MD's are narrow minded and focus only on the symptoms. 🙄

 

[OSUdoc08]

Haven't you heard. MD's can't practice holistic medicine. Only DO's have the ability to integrate a holistic philosphy in their practice. MD's are narrow minded and focus only on the symptoms. 🙄

I don't think sarcasm would be very beneficial in this thread.

👎

 

[medic170]

I don't think sarcasm would be very beneficial in this thread.

👎

Who ever said I was trying to benefit the thread officer?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Who ever said I was trying to benefit the thread officer?

It's just not needed. There is no reason to make sarcastic comments on an MD vs. DO thread. You know how things go downhill after such comments begin to be made.

 

[docbill]

Who ever said I was trying to benefit the thread officer?

I though religion and the gods treats the person.. where as physicians treat the disease. Now I am confused.

Don't DOs have copyright on OMM, Preventative medicince and holistic treatment? That was my understanding.

Thank god we are discussing this for the first time. I would of got it wrong and would have wasted 4 years in DO program.

 

[MoosePilot]

I though religion and the gods treats the person.. where as physicians treat the disease. Now I am confused.

Don't DOs have copyright on OMM, Preventative medicince and holistic treatment? That was my understanding.

Thank god we are discussing this for the first time. I would of got it wrong and would have wasted 4 years in DO program.

Preventative medicine? Does that include things like immunizations?

 

[medic170]

It's just not needed. There is no reason to make sarcastic comments on an MD vs. DO thread. You know how things go downhill after such comments begin to be made.

Your right, point well taken 😳

 

[medic170]

I though religion and the gods treats the person.. where as physicians treat the disease. Now I am confused.

Don't DOs have copyright on OMM, Preventative medicince and holistic treatment? That was my understanding.

Thank god we are discussing this for the first time. I would of got it wrong and would have wasted 4 years in DO program.

Bill, did you get that link I posted for you in another therad for alternative loans? If not PM me and I will get ti to you.

 

[tinkerbelle]

What does "Treat the patient not the disease." really mean?

I always thought that meant that you need to consider what else is going on in your patient's life and dig deeper. Like, yes, your patient overeats and you can preach all you want to him about exercise and healthy eating. But until you understand why he overeats, the problem will never be resolved. Perhaps his dog died 2 years ago and ever since then, he's been eating 24/7 to take his mind off of his puppy. And when you realize this, perhaps you can steer him towards counseling (or at least just offer him a sympathetic ear) and maybe the overating will go away when he can deal with the loss.

 

[medicine1]

DOs provide OMM, range of motion techniques, masssage, and when deemed necessary prescribe drugs
MDs provide drugs, exemple gratia, muscle relaxants

 

[medicine1]

DOs have their patients take supplemental lactobacili tablets or have the patients eat yogurt with active cultures, when taking antibiotics, as a preventative measure of acquiring C. difficile.
MDs provide antibiotics, patients acquire C. difficile, and then give patients even stronger antibiotics. Treating the symptoms and not the cause.

 

[MoosePilot]

DOs provide OMM, range of motion techniques, masssage, and when deemed necessary prescribe drugs
MDs provide drugs, exemple gratia, muscle relaxants

Do they? Neither of the ones I shadowed did. They functioned just like MDs. Or like doctors

DOs have their patients take supplemental lactobacili tablets or have the patients eat yogurt with active cultures, when taking antibiotics, as a preventative measure of acquiring C. difficile.
MDs provide antibiotics, patients acquire C. difficile, and then give patients even stronger antibiotics. Treating the symptoms and not the cause.

You're sure they all do that?

 

[medicine1]

Do they? Neither of the ones I shadowed did. They functioned just like MDs. Or like doctors



You're sure they all do that?

You're so allopathic it screams from your letters. I don't believe you have ever shadowed a DO.
And if you have you weren't paying attention.
Do your research, instead of trying to provoke us.

 

[medic170]

You're so allopathic it screams from your letters. I don't believe you have ever shadowed a DO.
And if you have you weren't paying attention.
Do your research, instead of trying to provoke us.

🙄 MD's are all evil pill pushers and DO's are the hereoes of the new age of mediine, right?

 

[MoosePilot]

You're so allopathic it screams from your letters. I don't believe you have ever shadowed a DO.
And if you have you weren't paying attention.
Do your research, instead of trying to provoke us.

I only applied to USUHS because I'm very focused on being a military doctor and I needed to stay on active duty to ensure a family member's medical coverage continued. That's no longer a worry, so next year I'm applying to both osteo and allo schools. USUHS is still my top choice.

So here's my goal: I want to be a military doctor. I don't particularly care osteo or allo, because I know that it's not the school that dictates what type of doc I'll be, but my own intelligence, empathy, and hard work.

I shadowed two docs. One was one of my flight docs in the local clinic. Great guy and a good friend now. I didn't know originally, but it turned out he was a DO. Functioned exactly like his MD counterpart, because I shadowed him briefly at the suggestion of the DO. I saw them interact. They discussed cases and the DO never said anything like "Did you consider a non chemical approach to this case, you allo loser?"

The other doc was R90t from this forum. Rob's a great guy and also a good friend now. He seemed like a good doc, but didn't stick out for his osteopathic orthodoxy.

Want to try any more psychic predictions? You're 0 for 1 so far...

 

[medicine1]

Psychic predictions? What are you talking about? 👎
There are some clear distinctions in idiology, and approach to health care between DO and MD. Whole medicine (DO) vs Half-assed medicine (MD).
Yes, each doctor has their own approach, but the idiology of the two schools of thought are different in many respects. I hope in the near future more and more DOs incorporate OMM and massage into their practices.
While the very idea of looking at the very root of a problem or cause, rather than masking the disease, or giving drugs without having enough information to make a well, intelligent, and informed decision to prescribe those drugs will always separate DOs from MDs.

 

[medic170]

There seems to be a large number of "holier than thou" DO people posting lately. I just want to tell you people something. I started out pre-DO and I know everything a pre-med possibly can about osteopathic medicine. It is a great profession that deserves more respect than it sometimes gets. But you people that come on here, dog allopathic medicine, and preach about how DO's are better are doing a disservice. Here are a few pointers that I do not think anyone will disagree with:

1. DO's are NOT "better" ot "more educated" than MD's, and MD's are not better or more educated than DO's. Each profession takes a slightly different approach to teaching people how to be great physicians, and one is not better than the other.

2. You don't like it when MD's claim osteopathy is an inferior form of medicine, right? Guess what, MD's don't like to be ragged on either. Your profession has fought against the political machine for over 100 years to gain the recognition and respect it deserves. Claiming to be inherently better than MD's makes you no better than those old AMA docs who tried to keep you from practicing 80 years ago. It does not further your cause, and it DOES set it back.

3. In this day and age, there is very little difference between the education of DO' and MD's, except for OMM. The ideological differences that linger are fading fast.

4. MD's can practice holistic patient centered medicine just as easily as DO's can, and many do. The way medicine is practiced by any indicidual, DO or MD, has a lot more to do with the person than it does with where s/he wenty to school or which philosophy (MD or DO) he was taught.

5. Guess what, most DO's, less those who practice OMM a lot (very few) prescribe just as many medications just as often as MD's do.

6. Yes, allopathic medicine is more recognized than osteopathic by the public, and the reason nowadays is sheer numbers, and our leadership and political machine has it much more together and is much more powerful. DO's need to get better leadership, better residency slots (AOA or keep lobbying for a combined match) and continue to perform exemplary work and eventually your professional will be just as accepted as allopathy is. Be proactive rather reactive!! It takes time for a minority in any field to get the full recognition it diserves, but the only way to do it is by proving your worth and place, which DO's have done a great job of (except for the leadership)


I love osteopathic medicine. I only chose an MD school instead because of the curriculum and the greater number of rotation slots at any given hospital. Please, stop making osteopathy look second rate by downing MD's, you don't like it when it happens to you.

 

[medic170]

Psychic predictions? What are you talking about? 👎
There are some clear distinctions in idiology, and approach to health care between DO and MD. Whole medicine (DO) vs Half-assed medicine (MD).
Yes, each doctor has their own approach, but the idiology of the two schools of thought are different in many respects. I hope in the near future more and more DOs incorporate OMM and massage into their practices.
While the very idea of looking at the very root of a problem or cause, rather than masking the disease, or giving drugs without having enough information to make a well, intelligent, and informed decision to prescribe those drugs will always separate DOs from MDs.

You are very ignorant my friend, and you are only hurting the DO profession with your rediculous rants about MD's. What is there, like 10,000 DO's practicing these days(not sure, but very few compared to MD's),their patients are lucky, so the rest of the public is getting half ass medicine from MD's.

 

[tkim]

Answering the OP's question:

Try looking at these links provided by drusso:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=122794

in particular:

http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

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While I appreciate the perspective my osteopathic medical school is offering me, it is not a perspective unique to osteopathy. No one school of thought has a stranglehold on what's considered 'good medicine'.

It's great to be pumped about osteopathic medicine, but it should not come at the expense of bashing allopathy or foreign medical training. Please keep that in mind.

 

[medic170]

Answering the OP's question:

Try looking at these links provided by drusso:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=122794

in particular:

http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

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While I appreciate the perspective my osteopathic medical school is offering me, it is not a perspective unique to osteopathy. No one school of thought has a stranglehold on what's considered 'good medicine'.

It's great to be pumped about osteopathic medicine, but it should not come at the expense of bashing allopathy or foreign medical training. Please keep that in mind.

Thanks for posting that second link, it is a great article.

 

[nvshelat]

Answering the OP's question:

Try looking at these links provided by drusso:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=122794

in particular:

http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/paradox_of_osteopathy.htm

---

While I appreciate the perspective my osteopathic medical school is offering me, it is not a perspective unique to osteopathy. No one school of thought has a stranglehold on what's considered 'good medicine'.

It's great to be pumped about osteopathic medicine, but it should not come at the expense of bashing allopathy or foreign medical training. Please keep that in mind.

Thanks. That's all I was looking for 🙂

 

[ak1978]

Psychic predictions? What are you talking about? 👎
There are some clear distinctions in idiology, and approach to health care between DO and MD. Whole medicine (DO) vs Half-assed medicine (MD).
Yes, each doctor has their own approach, but the idiology of the two schools of thought are different in many respects. I hope in the near future more and more DOs incorporate OMM and massage into their practices.
While the very idea of looking at the very root of a problem or cause, rather than masking the disease, or giving drugs without having enough information to make a well, intelligent, and informed decision to prescribe those drugs will always separate DOs from MDs.

OK, so I usually don't bother responding to these posts but your comments just incensed me. How can you possibly speak about allopathic training (or osteopathic for that matter) without setting foot in med school? Your comment "While the very idea of looking at the very root of a problem or cause, rather than masking the disease, or giving drugs without having enough information to make a well, intelligent, and informed decision to prescribe those drugs will always separate DOs from MDs" is inflammatory and shows a rather puerile understanding of clinical medicine. If you have no respect for your "half-assed" allopathic colleagues with whom you will work side by side with, how do you expect to earn their respect? Your peer medic170 has done an excellent job of delineating the issues & he's not even in med school yet.
In the end, we will all be physicians. Medicine is all about putting the patient first, not about putting down your colleagues.

 

[jetproppilot]

I am an MD in private practice. Do the individuals posting and reading these posts have an appreciation of what they are talking about from the Real World? Are you a PRACTICING physician? Doesn't sound like it.
I can assure you if a physician is granted hospital priveleges to practice medicine at a certain hospital, nobody really cares whether you are a DO or an MD. If I need to talk to a cardiologist about a patient, do you think I inquire about his medical education? Do you think DOs in private practice shun interaction with MDs?
I'm telling you folks, all of this banter evaporates when you finish your residency, join a group (or whatever), and are granted hospital priveleges at certain institutions. Individuals who propegate this DO vs MD thing are obviously speaking about something they THINK exists, and talking like they KNOW it exists.
Once you finish your residency and go into private practice, experience things for a while. Then come back and look at your posts. You'll be embarrassed. I've been in private practice eight years and haven't experienced your delusion.

 

[Docgeorge]

DOs have their patients take supplemental lactobacili tablets or have the patients eat yogurt with active cultures, when taking antibiotics, as a preventative measure of acquiring C. difficile.
MDs provide antibiotics, patients acquire C. difficile, and then give patients even stronger antibiotics. Treating the symptoms and not the cause.

Sorry to have to burst your bubble. My MD physician did this (the supplamentation) when I got a horrible case of infectious dirrhea. God some of the unmigitaed vomit that some people spew!!!

 

[MoosePilot]

Psychic predictions? What are you talking about? 👎

I'm talking about the fact that you try to say I didn't really shadow a DO when I did. I'm amazed by your psychic powers, but have to confront you with their failure in this instance.

I not only shadowed a DO, I shadowed a DO who posts on these forums. Eat me.

Osteopathic medicine is awesome. Caring for people in the field of medicine is a noble calling. Period.

 

[medicine1]

I'm talking about the fact that you try to say I didn't really shadow a DO when I did. I'm amazed by your psychic powers, but have to confront you with their failure in this instance.

I not only shadowed a DO, I shadowed a DO who posts on these forums. Eat me.
Eat me.

Osteopathic medicine is awesome. Caring for people in the field of medicine is a noble calling. Period.

Amen!! 👍

 

[cfdavid]

I am an MD in private practice. Do the individuals posting and reading these posts have an appreciation of what they are talking about from the Real World? Are you a PRACTICING physician? Doesn't sound like it.
I can assure you if a physician is granted hospital priveleges to practice medicine at a certain hospital, nobody really cares whether you are a DO or an MD. If I need to talk to a cardiologist about a patient, do you think I inquire about his medical education? Do you think DOs in private practice shun interaction with MDs?
I'm telling you folks, all of this banter evaporates when you finish your residency, join a group (or whatever), and are granted hospital priveleges at certain institutions. Individuals who propegate this DO vs MD thing are obviously speaking about something they THINK exists, and talking like they KNOW it exists.
Once you finish your residency and go into private practice, experience things for a while. Then come back and look at your posts. You'll be embarrassed. I've been in private practice eight years and haven't experienced your delusion.

I agree 100% It's people that lack real world experiences that are hung up on all this sh.it. To suggest that two letters after someone's name provides them with a monopoly on certain philosophies is ridiculous. Also, such broad strokes are being painted that it's silly.

 

[tkim]

OP's question answered. Closing.