If Similar, Why Go MD?

[dan0909]

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I've read several threads about the education, salaries, and career opportunities of MDs and DOs being virtually equal. If this is the case, why do students put themselves through the process of applying to MD schools, which are, unarguably, more difficult to get into?

 

[Tezzie]

Oh no! Not that subject again -.-

 

[Bridaddy]

Seriously.

 

[dan0909]

Hah...this ISNT an MD vs DO thread...it's a specific question within it...

 

[Bridaddy]

The road to hell is paved with best intentions....

 

[davidw11]

Ahh...MD vs DO arguements are always fun 🙂 Let's start one...after a couple thousand posts we'll be right back to here again...

It is very similar, but there are many people out there that think of only "MD" as doctors. Plus, DO doctors have training a little different then MD's. But they're both doctors, people! My family doctor has a DO, and she's excellent. You'd never know the difference.

 

[jbing]

do DOs do research? can they become surgeons? when you get down to it, what is the core difference between do and md? it has to be more than just public perception of md vs. do. and why does "osteopathic manipulative techniques" curiously sound like chiropractics? just some honest questions..........

 

[DD214_DOC]

do DOs do research?
Some of them do.

can they become surgeons?
Yes

what is the core difference between do and md?
Not a whole lot.

why does "osteopathic manipulative techniques" curiously sound like chiropractics?

because chiropracty came from the original osteopathic stuff.

 

[Street Philosopher]

It is like asking, do you want to be starter or bench warmer? You get the same uniform and are in the same team, and you get to play, just not at the beginning of the game. Same **** right? Maybe.

 

[xadmin]

Ok, here is the blunt way to think of it. DO doctor are indeed doctor, but they are not as school smart or maybe they can't reason or perform critical thinking as well as MD. No need to argue this point, DO average GPA and MCAT proves it compare to MD. There are two kind of DO: 1st. You loved their philosophy, so you go and become a DO. 2nd: You don't care what the philosophy of a DO or MD is, but your MCAT and GPA can only let you get into a DO school. The latter case is the more prevalent case. I am an undergrad and I know lots of people. Most want a MD. The people that I know that want to be DO are all the people that get ~3.0 GPA and 24 on MCAT.

Also, if you go to a MD school, you will get a better Match List and people there are more competitive.

Think about it this way. Why would you buy a Mercedes if you can get a Toyota Corolla for 1/5 of the price?? They both are cars. They both take you from point A to point B, so why would a person pay five times more for a Mercedes?? -Well, a mercedes is a better car, stronger, and it shows your status a lot more.

Same with a MD, people with MD are smarter, more organized, focus, and much more respected than DO. Sure both are doctors, but a Mercedes and a Corolla are both cars. You see the difference?

Well, you can argue that there are DO that are smarter than MD. Well it's true. But there are much more MD that are smarter than DO. So DO and MD are not equal. Whoever told you they are equal are full of BS

 

[freesolo]

this forum is a big cycle is what i'm realizing ;D. anyone have any original topics ;D

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by xadmin
Ok, here is the blunt way to think of it.

MD's were dorks in undergrad.

 

[commy-superman]

Originally posted by xadmin
Ok, here is the blunt way to think of it. DO doctor are indeed doctor, but they are not as school smart or maybe they can't reason or perform critical thinking as well as MD. No need to argue this point, DO average GPA and MCAT proves it compare to MD. There are two kind of DO: 1st. You loved their philosophy, so you go and become a DO. 2nd: You don't care what the philosophy of a DO or MD is, but your MCAT and GPA can only let you get into a DO school. The latter case is the more prevalent case. I am an undergrad and I know lots of people. Most want a MD. The people that I know that want to be DO are all the people that get ~3.0 GPA and 24 on MCAT.

Also, if you go to a MD school, you will get a better Match List and people there are more competitive.

Think about it this way. Why would you buy a Mercedes if you can get a Toyota Corolla for 1/5 of the price?? They both are cars. They both take you from point A to point B, so why would a person pay five times more for a Mercedes?? -Well, a mercedes is a better car, stronger, and it shows your status a lot more.

Same with a MD, people with MD are smarter, more organized, focus, and much more respected than DO. Sure both are doctors, but a Mercedes and a Corolla are both cars. You see the difference?

Well, you can argue that there are DO that are smarter than MD. Well it's true. But there are much more MD that are smarter than DO. So DO and MD are not equal. Whoever told you they are equal are full of BS

you are enormously wrong on some many points. I work with some DO's and I resent the implication that DO's are the "Toyata Corolla" of the medical field.

 

[Robz]

After reading many of these worthless threads I realize people just like to make others feel bad.

 

[xadmin]

I guess you can resent all you want. But it's fact. Here is the thing. A DO or a MD doesn't determine what kind of person you are. You can be as nice as hell and be a DO. But fact is fact. DO are not as smart as MD are in term of science and critical thinking. That is why they are DO. Sure, you worked with many DO now who are good, but that is after years and years of experiences as DO. MD with years and years of experiences will be great too.

Look at this this way: a person who got accepted into Harvard and one got accepted into your local state school. Does that means a person who got accepted into a local state school is less of a person than a person from Harvard? No. However, it does means that a person who get into Harvard is the smarter one. A degree from Harvard means a lot more and is valued a lot more. Same with medical school. A MD means more than a DO. This is why 3rd world country accept MD, but not DO as a medical degree.

 

[davidw11]

need to argue this point, DO average GPA and MCAT proves it compare to MD.

Maybe it's just the fact that since there isn't so much competition to get into DO schools, they let in more "average" people. If everyone wants to get into a local community college, the only way they can let people in is to up the GPA requirements so they can weed-out the "average" people and take the very best. So in theory a community college could be just as choosy as Harvard or Yale if people really wanted to go there.

I think the same would apply to Harvard. If nobody felt like paying $45,000/yr for tuition and decided to go to local state schools, Harvard couldn't possibly maintain their current GPA and SAT standards. The competition wouldn't be enough.

 

[xadmin]

Originally posted by davidw11
Maybe it's just the fact that since there isn't so much competition to get into DO schools, they let in more "average" people. If everyone wants to get into a local community college, the only way they can let people in is to up the GPA requirements so they can weed-out the "average" people and take the very best. So in theory a community college could be just as choosy as Harvard or Yale if people really wanted to go there.

I think the same would apply to Harvard. If nobody felt like paying $45,000/yr for tuition and decided to go to local state schools, Harvard couldn't possibly maintain their current GPA and SAT standards. The competition wouldn't be enough.

Yeah, very true. Now why do you think not many people go to DO school??? It's because they are not as good.

 

[Sweet Tea]

why am i at an MD school instead of a DO school? easy. for me, MD meant cheap, in-state tuition. DO would have meant out of state or private. seeing as how i want to go into primary care and don't want to spend the rest of my life paying off my med school loans, MD for me!

 

[bigmuny]

You can call me dumb, but don't call me a damn corrolla. I'm definetely a cadillac or maybe lincoln towncar. I'm all about the comfort.

 

[xadmin]

Man people take this thread too seriously. It's pointless to argue. If DO is more of your liking, go for it. If MD is more of your liking, then apply for that. Both will make you a doctor. In term of education, you all should be about the same and by passing the board, you can practice medicine. But be aware that MD is harder to get into.

 

[commy-superman]

Originally posted by xadmin
Man people take this thread too seriously. It's pointless to argue. If DO is more of your liking, go for it. If MD is more of your liking, then apply for that. Both will make you a doctor. In term of education, you all should be about the same and by passing the board, you can practice medicine. But be aware that MD is harder to get into.

Now what are you saying. A few posts ago you said "DO are not as smart as MD are in term of science and critical thinking" now your saying "In term of education, you all should be about the same". Aren't science and critical thinking apart of "education"?

 

[dan0909]

hey commy,

i used to live in tampa and listen to mj and bj on 93.3 flz all the time... where are u located?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

the idea that someone is necessarily less intelligent because they went to a less competitive school has some flaws. maybe on average students at harvard are more intelligent than students at local state schools, but there can be students at your local state school or, gasp, osteopathic school who choose that school over harvard for various personal reasons. some students also might not have excelled in undergrad because they worked full-time or just didn't care. neither implies that the person is less intelligent. this wraping up of grades and test scores with intelligence simplies the issue way too much and shows a great deal of ignorance about how to measure intelligence.

xaadmin, you can't really play nice at the end and tell people to do whatever makes them happier after stating previously that the school they attend is a direct indicator of their intelligence. sure, go to osteopathic school if you like, but that means you're less intelligent than an md. maybe you should sharpen your diplomacy skills a bit.

 

[Street Philosopher]

medicine requires critical thinking?

 

[Neon Black]

Exactly, there is no such thing as critical thinking in becoming a doctor except for the 2 physics class that are required that every Bio major dreads because they can't memorize and regurgitate.

If you want to show how much of a bada$$ you are, do something in Engineering, or design the next operating system that will be in every Cisco router or computer.

What does it matter, at the end of the day, DO's will make as much money as MD's so you can hurt their feelings all you want, they'll cry all the way to the same bank you go to.

 

[calcrew14]

I swear that I was much smarter a few days ago when I was waiting for an interview offer from a Mercedes School. To my surprize, the offer came from a Toyota School instead. Would anybody please tell me how much IQ have I lost?

My dad has a Mercedes, is it going to transform into a Toyota pretty soon? 😱 😕 🙁 👎 🙄

 

[Street Philosopher]

mercedes, corolla, lincoln or whatever, you're still a bench warmer.

 

[ForensicPath]

The real point here is: who cares

DOs can get into whatever specialty they want (you may have to work a little harder in med school though) and in the end they make the same amount of money have have the same lifestyle. If you are concerned about some stigma then don't go to DO school. If you are gung-ho for research then don't go to DO school (although that seems to be changing). If you want to practice outside of the US then don't go to DO school. But if you just want to be a good doctor with a comfortable lifestyle (like me) then who really cares.

 

[NRAI2001]

Originally posted by JKDMed
do DOs do research?
Some of them do.

can they become surgeons?
Yes

what is the core difference between do and md?
Not a whole lot.

why does "osteopathic manipulative techniques" curiously sound like chiropractics?

because chiropracty came from the original osteopathic stuff.

You said that DO's can become surgeons also, but is it more difficult or rare to see a DO surgeon?

 

[zer0el]

the real answer to this question is ignorance. premeds just don't know what the heck a DO is (in general). older premeds pass on the myth that DO schools are for MD rejects. insecure younger premeds then firmly ingrain these ideas into their minds. it's a vicious cycle that i don't see ending. in fact, i was suprised to learn that a fair number of my MD classmates have no idea what a DO is. i think what DO schools need is some major PR and advertising.

on a lighter note, mercedes sucks now that they merged with chrysler. relaibility is worse than hyundai (fact), and a lot of the mercedes german talent is being shifted to the chrysler division (e.g., crossfire). go BMW!

 

[kwooder]

I shadowed a DO surgeon this summer. He has also done some interviews. His belief is that the MCAT is not a good indicator of what you will accomplish in medicine. When I asked him why one might choose MD over DO, the only thing he said was research possibly. When I mentioned not accepting DOs overseas, he said that was because no one had really pushed for it yet.

The key is the actual medical school. I want to stay in state, so I had two choices, MD or DO. The DO school fits me better.

Just get as much info as you can about the different programs and if MD and DO will both achieve your goals, pick the school that fits the best.

p.s. I have shadowed MDs as well as DOs.

 

[WillowRose]

Originally posted by zer0el
the real answer to this question is ignorance. premeds just don't know what the heck a DO is (in general). older premeds pass on the myth that DO schools are for MD rejects. insecure younger premeds then firmly ingrain these ideas into their minds. it's a vicious cycle that i don't see ending. in fact, i was suprised to learn that a fair number of my MD classmates have no idea what a DO is. i think what DO schools need is some major PR and advertising.

on a lighter note, mercedes sucks now that they merged with chrysler. relaibility is worse than hyundai (fact), and a lot of the mercedes german talent is being shifted to the chrysler division (e.g., crossfire). go BMW!

Absolutely agree with you on the ignorant pre-med thing. Most pre-meds don't think "Oh, I want to be a DO" because most of them don't even know what a DO is. "Oh gee....is that an optometrist?" They are not any less able to think or "dumb" in comparison to their counterparts in MD school. Frankly, after listening to a bunch of them the day I took the MCAT, I'd be glad to be away from the typical pre-MD student! "Oh, I couldnt go to the concert last night because I had to come take this stupid test....." Waaaah! Life sucks, get over it.

As far as Chrysler and Mercedes...it was *not* a merger. Mercedes took over and they have proceeded to screw the union employees ever since. (I'm married to one of those union guys so I know how much we've lost by "merging" with Mercedes). No matter what you say about Daimler, Chrysler has suffered *much* more!

One final note, practicing in other countries with a DO varies from one place to another. There are lots of places where you can get full practice rights as a DO. If you are travelling as part of a humanitarian group, then it probably will not be a problem at all. One thing I discovered in Vietnam is that they are in such great need of physicians, they don't have the luxury of wondering if their dr. went to her first-choice school or her last-choice.

It's nice to see so many fellow pre-meds more interested in building themselves up by knocking down the osteopathic folks than in actually developing the skills necessarily to effectively communicate and empathize with others. I can only hope you go into research or surgery!

😉

Will~

 

[DD214_DOC]

I actually chose DO over MD. However, if accepted to my state's school or USUHS I would probably not go to a DO school.

My interest and influence for choosing DO came a lot from my studies in psychology and martial arts. The body IS more than just the sum of its parts. While the philosophy of osteopathy can be practice by any MD, MDs aren't taught the same way DO's are. Plus I hate premed personalities and MD schools are full of them. Hooray DO!

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by NRAI2001
You said that DO's can become surgeons also, but is it more difficult or rare to see a DO surgeon?

One of the Orthopedic surgery professors at Boston University School of Medicine is a D.O.

It is rare to see D.O.s period since they make up a smaller percentage of the graduates. Plus usually when you see them you don't notice them because they they practice the same as everyone else.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Here's a funny anecdote. During my volunteering at the hospital, there was this young ER physician that everyone seemed to love. She was great with patients, and really took the time to talk with patients and make sure they were comfortable as well as treating them. The other doctors just came in, did their thing, then moved on. This doctor really took care of her patients.

Since all of us volunteers constantly try to look at the nametags of the people we encounter, I finally got a glimpse of hers. It said, "DO" after her name. I just thought she was a really good MD.

I concede that this DO vs MD bickering is completely stupid. All of us are clueless premeds or pre-clinical medical students. In all honestly, we don't have a freaking clue. I suppose I know more about DO's than most pre-Allo people because I'm honestly interested in it, but I have NEVER seen a post-grad MD or DO on here bitching about which profession has the bigger penis.

 

[madlovescience]

Xadmin, you hit on my #1 pet peeve- the idea that people who go to a school like Harvard are "smarter" than people who attend state school. I understand that yes, it does take excellent grades to get into Harvard, however, there are plenty of dedicated, intellegent people attending state school. Please consider other people's financial situatons before making such a flippant comment. It makes you sound like a snob. I attend SUNY, work very hard, and will not think of myself as second rate when I graduate.
I'm sorry this is kind of off topic, everyone....

 

[musiclink213]

OK, i just came back from my pre-med advisor, and he handed me the standard packet with all the info on a field in the health sciences/ The description for MD for nature of the work:

"Phsicians perform medical examinations, diagnose illnesses and treat people who are suffering from injury or disease. They also advise patients on maintaining good health. MD's use all accepted modes of treatment including drugs and surgery. Physicians may be general practitioners or may specialize in a field of medecine such as: internal medecine, general surgery, obstetrics and gynecology, pediactrics, radiology, etc."

Nature of work (DO): "The osteophathic physician places emphasis pf the muscoskeletal system as well a the interrelationship of all body systems. The main differences between allopathic and osteopathic is the use of manipulative therapy to restore normal functioning to other body systems and to relieve pain. Another difference is most osteopaths are primary care physicians (87%), while about 70% of all allopaths are specialists. Osteopathic physicians use surgery, drugs and all other accepted methods of medical care."

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by musiclink213
"The main differences between allopathic and osteopathic is the use of manipulative therapy to restore normal functioning to other body systems and to relieve pain.

True except most osteopathic physicians stop using their manipulative therapy after they graduate and start an allopathic residency 😀


(over 65% of osteopathic physicians do allopathic residencies)

 

[davidw11]

Oh, don't know if this has been said or not.

DO's tend to practice in small towns, whereas MD's tend to practice in large cities.

 

[raining4days]

dan0909,

Because not many outside of SDN know what a DO is, especially here in Canada. And when people find out about osteopathic schools, the only information they can get to from the search engine is the data from http://www.aacom.org/ (on top of the AAMC website).

Since it is the nature of applicants to find out the difference between the two (why are there two degrees?), people will compare them based on the data on the above websites.

http://www.aacom.org/data/annualreport/slideshow/index.html vs. http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/famg62002a.htm

If I was just an ignorant person, I would conclude that MDs are better than DOs from these links. But I'm not, and neither do I think one is superior than the other. But most applicants only have websites and search engine results to find out what is osteopathic medicine.... unless one actually is involved in a clinical setting where DOs are practicing.

So, I say again that DO degree is not as familiar as MD degree because of the lack of information.

PS. I had to come to SDN to find out what a DO is.

 

[trauma_junky]

So to add some controversy to the subject, what's better MD AA or DO AA?

Is an AA aplicant to MD more qualified than an AA aplicant to DO school?

This whole thread is a bridge for trolls to live under!

 

[calcrew14]

Originally posted by trauma_junky
So to add some controversy to the subject, what's better MD AA or DO AA?

Is an AA aplicant to MD more qualified than an AA aplicant to DO school?

This whole thread is a bridge for trolls to live under!

I don't know which is better MD AA or DO AA. But this thread should have been a DOA alright.

Play along with this rape, anyone? 😀

 

[thewebthsp]

BROAD GENERALIZATIONS---YOU ARE WRONG--
learn how to effectively communicate your points before attempting to slander others.
biffy

 

[pboothe]

This thread is worthless.

D.O.s are medical doctors in the United States. Their curriculum is the same except for EXTRA training in OMM. If a D.O. wants to prove that they are just as smart they have the opportunity to do so by taking the USMLE and scoring accordingly.

XADMIN's points should be taken with a huge freaking lump of salt considering the fact that he obviously is only out to bash D.O.s.

I say get a life, and worry about your future practice, because D.O.s are becoming more prevalent and if you keep that attitude I feel for you.

For the D.O. perspective keep this in mind:
I personally interviewed at four MD schools and one DO school...I will be picking the DO school OVER the MD schools for various reasons and not because I couldn't get into the MD schools.

 

[commy-superman]

Originally posted by pboothe
This thread is worthless.

On the contrary, I think this thread touches on ALL the questions about DO MD differences and can be the thread the people should be directed too for those questions

 

[LUBDUBB]

I'm gonna solve this DO vs MD problem once and for all.

First off, xadmin (sp), which school you go to (harvard vs finch) has nothing to do with what kind of doctor you'll become. An student at harvard may have a 3.9 and 39, but may very well be socially inept! Just because he did well in school doesn't mean that he'll know how to relate to patients or be a good surgeon. If If your critical thinking skills are really that good, then you already knew that.

Second, the MD v DO debate is a big issue among one type of people. Those premeds who are obsessed with becoming doctors (mostly because of parental pressure). When they think of medicine they think of how 'pimp' it will be to have an MD. When they mature (if they do) to the level where they realize that medicine means treating patients, then they will no longer be troubled by the whole MD DO debate.

If your goal is to help people as a doctor, then the means by which you do it (MD or DO) is not important. However, if your goal is to get that "MD", then you'll have some serious internal conflict.

 

[....]

Originally posted by LUBDUBB
I'm gonna solve this DO vs MD problem once and for all.

First off, xadmin (sp), which school you go to (harvard vs finch) has nothing to do with what kind of doctor you'll become. An student at harvard may have a 3.9 and 39, but may very well be socially inept! Just because he did well in school doesn't mean that he'll know how to relate to patients or be a good surgeon. If If your critical thinking skills are really that good, then you already knew that.

Second, the MD v DO debate is a big issue among one type of people. Those premeds who are obsessed with becoming doctors (mostly because of parental pressure). When they think of medicine they think of how 'pimp' it will be to have an MD. When they mature (if they do) to the level where they realize that medicine means treating patients, then they will no longer be troubled by the whole MD DO debate.

If your goal is to help people as a doctor, then the means by which you do it (MD or DO) is not important. However, if your goal is to get that "MD", then you'll have some serious internal conflict.

I think youve got a better shot at bringing peace to the middle east before you solve this one.
BTW i resent the idea that people have ONE motivation for medicine.
Why cant i enjoy the status and the money AND the humanitarian aspects?

 

[quideam]

Ok, ok, this is getting silly. Here are my reasons for choosing MD hands down over DO:

1. I want the opportunity to practice medicine abroad. DOs can rarely do this, and if they can, it's much more difficult to find positions.

2. I don't really care about OMM.

3. I'd like to go to a med school where the students had similar grades/mcats/accomplishments to mine. Thus, I don't feel like I belong at Harvard, but I also don't want to go to a DO school anymore than I'd like to go to an unranked MD school. If you have good stats, why not try getting into the highest ranked school that will also make you happy? It certainly won't hurt you in the long run!

4. There are many more allopathic residencies than osteopathic ones, and some allopathic residencies don't take DOs. Why limit my options?

I think my reasons are sound. Some may have different priorities, and that's fine. Now, where's my black russian? 😛

- Quid

 

[DrBodacious]

DO's can't practice everywhere in the States. The education is about the same as far as the USMLEs being the final goal, different philosophies though. It is the lack of people that are not in tune with the DO philosophy and the people who can't get into MD school but become DOs because they want to be doctors that bring down the prestiege of DO school, not the curriculum per se.

Rather than the Mercedes/Toyota medaphor that someone used (that was pretty bad), maybe snowboarding/skiing taken from the 1990 perspective is a better one.
1. Skiing was more popular therefore the most skilled of skiers and snowboarders were the skiers.
2. Snowboarders were looked down on by some and not allowed to board some places.
3. The end goal is the same, to get to the bottom of the hill.
4. The main difference is just style.

Whataya'll think does that metephor work better? Just a thought.

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by DrBodacious
DO's can't practice everywhere in the States.

I think this statement is wrong. DOs can practice in all 50 states.