If you could do it over would you

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Nra - you went to berkeley? Haha I'm a soph there now. Go bears :D You're absolutely correct that those are very naive beliefs, but a few MS4's that I know did indeed initially choose the profession for this reason primarily. I cannot say whether their experiences have met their expectations, but for their own sake I hope that their hard work has not been in vain.

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Ummm. I really think most people wouldnt do it again simply because of the time committment, as opposed to simply a money issue. I love to take care of my patients, and my take home paycheck is golden. But, I still don't think I would do it (medical school/residency) all over again. Its like getting hazed for at least 7-yrs. And, for many people, this sucks the life out of them. Even some of the most kind-hearted people I knew in med school, ended up losing their empathetic hearts. Its no surprise that a lot of doctors are substance abusers, divorced, or even worse dead. I know a very rich, established, seemingly happy doc who shot himself in the head just last month. All he wanted was a happy family. And, what about that doc in NYC that blew up his whole building in a successful suicide a couple months ago. I'm sure he wasnt hard up for cash. Its already really hard to have a healthy social life (marriage, family, kids) in general. But to add the stress of being a doctor on top of that makes it even more difficult . And I really think most people wouldnt do it all over again because it just interfers way too much with having some semblance of a "real" life. What else would we do? Who knows? I dont think there's a right answer. We usually want what we cant have anyway...

I completely agree with you. ForbiddenComma's post was full of unfair generalizations. Breaking it down into 2 camps of people like he/she did is simplistic, unrealistic, and, at least to my read, a little bit condescending. Just because I am not all that happy in medicine does not mean I went into medicine for the money. Quite the contrary, actually. I'm someone who went into medicine because I wanted to "help people." But somewhere along the way, the paperwork, heirarchy, CYA bull****, etc, got in the way of that. Oh and the hours suck too. It's hard to really love ANY job that you're doing for 80 hours a week and in 30 hour stints....especially when it takes you (over and over and over and over again) away from the things that are really important to you outside of medicine. Sometimes I really like what I do, and there are certainly some very gratifying moments in medicine, both interpersonal and intellectual. But like sweetfynesse said, "7 years of hazing" has taken a big toll on me...and I can't get those years back.
 
Absolutely Not I would not do it over if given the choice to do so I would have done something else with my life
 
Absolutely Not I would not do it over if given the choice to do so I would have done something else with my life

Hey Annoyances!
Thanks for the honest response. If you don't mind my asking how far down "the road" are you (Med school, residency, practicing full-fledged doc etc)? What profession would have you gone into, if not medicine?
Thnaks
 
Nra - you went to berkeley? Haha I'm a soph there now. Go bears :D You're absolutely correct that those are very naive beliefs, but a few MS4's that I know did indeed initially choose the profession for this reason primarily. I cannot say whether their experiences have met their expectations, but for their own sake I hope that their hard work has not been in vain.

I dont know anyone that went into med school with as niave beliefs as they truely wanted to help people and thats it, bc docs dont help people as much as you think. They are usually the leader in the healthcare team and call the shots, but actual time spent with the patient is very limited. Nurses....etc spend much more time with the patients and get to know them better than the docs do. The real heros are the researchers that come up with the treatments, info leading to treatments, that docs most of the time just blindly memorize and spew out.

But i also dont know any docs or med students that dont want to help people at all. There is usually some sort of a balance.
 
I guess another issue is having to leave your family and your home for so long. Unless if your admitted to your local state school and then do your residency locally, your looking at having to leave your home for 7 to 10 years. I think the state schools should hold a greater responsibility to their own residents. Being able to choose your location maybe help a little in the whole process.
 
HEEELLL no. Not in a million years. I hate this!
I wish you guys who take time to respond anyway would give us at least some background info, Why or Why not? Whatever it may be. What would you do instead of medidicine? Did you work anywhere else before going into medicine? Sorry to bug you. But this will help a lot of us who are still following the progress of this thread.
Thanks
 
My husband is finishing up his 4th yr of med. school. My opinion is that life in general on bad days has lots of regrets. Medicine is not exactly what he imagined and he had 13 years of hospital clinical experience, but he doesn't see himself doing anything else. On a down day he seems to remember a time before med school when life was less stressful and he was satisfied at work. I remember him being frustrated that he was barely supporting our family and that he felt his work had no meaning. I'm sure he was less stressed when he was home from work because for the most part he could leave work "at work". That is the hardest part of being a student for so long...there is always something to study an upcoming test etc...and the kids just see that he's Home and want to play.

It is good to research and know yourself and have some idea of what medicine as a job entails. But, like marriage and parenthood you just can't "know" until you do it. Asking if you "would do marriage over if you knew what you know now" would yeld interesting responses depending on the day. It is always amazing how quick my emotions can change. For the majority of the time marriage is a routine, daily grind, rather boring adventure. Having those blissful moments take more work and creativity than in the early years. I suspect that Medicine is similar. You can like your job but it's doubtful you will love every minute of it. The more routine something gets the less exciting.

I guess I try to have a positive attitude. When other med. spouses complain I gently remind them that many many people work long hours, multiple jobs, etc. I also think of a dear friend whose husband is in Iraq for a year leaving her with 3 children and a business to take care of. At least I get to see my husband daily.

Bottom line is that work is well... WORK.
 
I find that it's not the actual medicine that I hate. It's the insurance companies and the bs they put us through. They have destroyed medicine. WE HAVE ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. I don't care what anyone says about access to care. This is just bs to keep the insurance companies making huge profits. It is getting more and more difficult to keep a practice open and profitable. The autonomy is gone.

I can put up with bad patients, sometimes long hours and I certainly put up and can put up with long hours of residency. It is temporary. It will go away.

Only problems is, as long has the bastard insurance companies manipulate the system and as long as we let them, MEDICINE IS GOING TO GET TOUGHER AND TOUGHER TO PRACTICE. THIS IS A FACT. TAKE IT TO HEART.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SPECIALTY YOUR IN. This weekend I met an orthopedic surgeon that has considered giving up his private practice because of the poor contracts the insurance companies are giving him and because of the major increase in his malpractice. He has not been sued before.

WE NEED TO UNITE, FOR A UNION AND FIGHT LIKE HELL TO PUT MEDICINE BACK IN THE HANDS OF DOCTORS NOT A BUNCH OF PAPER PUSHERS.

My background: Board Certified Physcian several years out of residency.:mad:
 
I agree is has gotten way out of balance.
 
I find that it's not the actual medicine that I hate. It's the insurance companies and the bs they put us through. They have destroyed medicine. WE HAVE ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. I don't care what anyone says about access to care. This is just bs to keep the insurance companies making huge profits. It is getting more and more difficult to keep a practice open and profitable. The autonomy is gone.

I can put up with bad patients, sometimes long hours and I certainly put up and can put up with long hours of residency. It is temporary. It will go away.

Only problems is, as long has the bastard insurance companies manipulate the system and as long as we let them, MEDICINE IS GOING TO GET TOUGHER AND TOUGHER TO PRACTICE. THIS IS A FACT. TAKE IT TO HEART.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SPECIALTY YOUR IN. This weekend I met an orthopedic surgeon that has considered giving up his private practice because of the poor contracts the insurance companies are giving him and because of the major increase in his malpractice. He has not been sued before.

WE NEED TO UNITE, FOR A UNION AND FIGHT LIKE HELL TO PUT MEDICINE BACK IN THE HANDS OF DOCTORS NOT A BUNCH OF PAPER PUSHERS.

My background: Board Certified Physcian several years out of residency.:mad:


you are not kidding my friend.. medicine cannot be managed.. you can manage professionals with this level of expertise.. they have to be autonomous.. and in this day of managed care..... care in my opiinion is far worse... you will be hard pressed to find any internist at night in the hospital seeing his patients or in the ER. you will find more and more NPS and care will suffer greatly... sad really sad
 
I wish you guys who take time to respond anyway would give us at least some background info, Why or Why not? Whatever it may be. What would you do instead of medidicine? Did you work anywhere else before going into medicine? Sorry to bug you. But this will help a lot of us who are still following the progress of this thread.
Thanks

Sorry. Here goes. Used to work in the hospitality industry and loved the social life; just felt that it lacked intellectual stimulation and so thought medicine would be cool - socially and intellectually. Can't give you a solid reason why I don't like 100% it, but I find it quite stressful for a start. That and the massive amount of debt, putting life on hold again for 4 (+ residency + loan payback) years, the enormous amount of time (per day) involved and surprisingly, how many &*^ you have to deal with in medicine. Sure, there are wacky personalities in all walks of life but for some reason, a particular brand of which can be found in medicine that really bothers me. In saying all of that, I do have some interesting days, some fun days and have met some very cool people.

If I were not in medicine, perhaps I would still be in hospitality. I have always enjoyed computers too, and perhaps this would be another avenue that would have been attractive. However, I have found my particular niche in medicine; that of pathology, which I have found that I really enjoy. It does scare me that I had no idea what I was in for before I came to medical school though, and wonder what I would be left with to choose from if it were not for path (which I feel is my calling.)

Also - I apologise for my previous comment. Take that with a grain of salt! I was having a particularly bad day I believe (perhaps I was on surgery...!)
 
Current MS-IV here. Quickly want to say that if I had known things would be this bad I would have just gone to dental or pharmacy school. But this is a two edged sword as most ppl have commented on the fact that you really have no idea what its like until you're in the mix. There's no way to simulate med school unless you go through it. That being said I think I would have always been curious. Hindsight is 20/20, you know?

Anyway As I was walking home this morning after a spending a total of 30 minutes on an anesthesia rotation (I love 4th year!) I ran into a med school hopeful. With the biggest smile on her face asked me how far along I was in med school and whether or not I liked it, as she is in the process of applying this year. In a serious tone I told her no and gave her my reasons why. She asked me if I was gonna stick it out I told her I would, as it is too late to quit now. In the end I recommended that she make sure that she really wants to do it and to make sure she is doing it for the right reasons and not to let my statements influence her either way. That's the advice I would give to most people. Talk to people in med school, out of med school, ppl that have been out in practice for sometime as they will all offer a different perspective and come to a decision based on what you think is best for YOU (not what mommy and daddy want you to do and certainly not based on prestige or the prospect of making money).

For me, medicine is just painful for lack of a better term. First two years I thought were rough but doable. I didn't mind studying, and I figured things would get better. Well they didn't. Third year shines light on a lot of the problems I have with american medicine (polypharmacy, the threat of litigation, constant stress/lack of exercise, ungrateful/noncompliant patients and families, chronic medical conditions and often futile unecessarily expensive treatment regimens, the threat of advanced care nursing/assistants/techs on jobs in some fields (anesthesia, family medicine, internal medicine, etc. just to name a few). Keep in mind most of these people weren't taking the organic chemistry/physics/advanced biology courses alongside me in college, didn't go through the demeaning 4 year experience of med school yet are providing a level of care similar to that of physicians and will likely only get more autonomy as insurance companies/hospitals look to cut costs. Went to a drug rep dinner last night where I was introduced to a NP who the drug rep referred to as an 'expert' and probably 'most knowledgable individual' in this city when it comes to treating Hepatitis C (ha!, even more so than the hundreds of hepatologists/gastroenterologists in town i suspect). I've seen some posts around these forums of ppl asking 'should I put myself through the stress of med school to do anesthesia or just become a CRNA'. That's the environment we've created. I don't blame them of course. I can't knock an individual for taking the path of least resistance and doing a job that's made available to them and pays well. I blame physicians in the profession that sold my generation out for the prospect of increasing profit in the short term. Things may change and I could be completely off so don't take my word for it.

At the end of the day, I would have always been curious and who knows where I'd be if I weren't in medicine. Just know that if you don't get in, you're really not missing a whole lot and you can find happiness elsewhere as medicine is not the cure-all that a lot of ppl think it is. Just my two cents. Good luck and best wishes to any aspiring physicians out there.
 
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I have 12 business days of residency left to go. Wow. I had taken some time off during residency, blah, blah, blah, and stayed a few extra months to finish up.
I never thought this time in my life would come. I remember being a senior in high school and knowing that I wanted to be a physician. College years were filled with studying, although I think I had my share of fun too. Then med school, which was...hmm...okay, I guess. Residency was fine. And now, 12 years later, I am about to be an attending. Seriously, I never thought this day would actually come!
Would I do it over again? Yes. I don't know what else I would do in life. I like having this purpose for my life. It is easy to explain to my child, "Mommy helps people who hurt." He gets that and I feel good about what I do.
Training was painful at times. I almost quit med school after one week. However, all other things in life that are worthwhile are just as, if not more, painful. Parenthood can be painful at times: more pain, more joy. Heck, child birth is painful, but the joy of a child is priceless. Any other career in life is painful in different ways. A lot of my attorney friends loved law school and hate their actual practice. B-school grads are happy that they are rolling in $, but really, they know that they move other people's money around and collect a slice. Teachers have painful parents to deal with. Even the garbage men have rats to deal with.
All that said, it is important as to what specialty you choose. I think picking a specialty is kind of like picking a spouse: there is rarely simply ONE match. A person may be suited for many different things, and have affinity for a few areas, pick wisely. If you want to be a surgeon and nothing else, be a surgeon, but maybe life would be better if you are not the only pediatric thoracic surgeon in the entire county. If you want to be a pediatrician, life would be better if you worked for a big HMO, than solo practice and battle with insurance. Being a physician gives a person CHOICES, and that, isn't common with a lot of careers.
To go to dental/pharmacy school or not? Well, that is an entirely different discussion. Most dentists I know work just as hard as physicians. They too have insurance companies to contend with, and really, digging in teeth? Sure, there are 'worse' parts of the anatomy, but at least medicine gives you more choices: anus versus hands, whereas dental school, you have the oral cavity, and more oral cavities.
Pharmacy schools: I know it can be a great career for women, I know a few moms who are pharmacists and they find part-time jobs fairly easily. But then again, if you like talking to people and finding out who they are, this may not be very satisfying.
NPs or CNRAs, well, my take is that it depends on personality. I considered midwifery for a while. So glad I didn't do that. I like to be the one making the 'ultimate' decision, then again, that comes with a price: it is my license on the line...
BTW, I think parenting is much more difficult than being a doctor: how many physicians do you know who are terrible parents? And parents are always on call. There is no pay. And there are no gurantees. You never feel good enough (or if you feel like you are really good at it, you are probably terrible at it.)
 
I guess another issue is having to leave your family and your home for so long. Unless if your admitted to your local state school and then do your residency locally, your looking at having to leave your home for 7 to 10 years. I think the state schools should hold a greater responsibility to their own residents. Being able to choose your location maybe help a little in the whole process.

How to Cut the Umbilical Chord:

1. Wait Until the chord stops pulsing.
2. Place one clamp approx. 4 cm from umbilicus and one approx 8 cm distal to it.
3. Hold the area of the chord to be cut with sterile gauze and use sterile scissors to cut midway between the two clamps.
4. The baby is now totally detached from its mother.
 
For me, medicine is just painful for lack of a better term. First two years I thought were rough but doable. I didn't mind studying, and I figured things would get better. Well they didn't. Third year shines light on a lot of the problems I have with american medicine (polypharmacy, the threat of litigation, constant stress/lack of exercise, ungrateful/noncompliant patients and families, chronic medical conditions and often futile unecessarily expensive treatment regimens, the threat of advanced care nursing/assistants/techs on jobs in some fields (anesthesia, family medicine, internal medicine, etc. just to name a few).

Ditto, ditto, ditto. Thanks for clarifying and summing up my feelings! MSIV also. Good luck in whatever you do.
 
Well this must be the most interesting thread on all of SDN.

After reading ALL the pages of this thread (I have no life), it seems to me that medicine is good, but the legal aspect, the long hours, and the a**holes within the system really make it suck. Is this a fair summary?

Like I have said before, I don't know if I am going PA or MD/DO. Here at SDN, people say if there is anything else you may be interested in, do that. On another forum, the PA Forum, they say that I am young and to go on a do Med School. Talk about confusing!

I'll be honest, right now I am confused because of the many different things I have heard, both on the forums and from shadowing. I personally am not worried about the money or the training per se, but I am worried about giving alot of my time to the cause and racking up enormus debt. Oh well, i'll figure it out.

Thanks for the great thread and good luck to everyone!

dxu
 
Well this must be the most interesting thread on all of SDN.

After reading ALL the pages of this thread (I have no life), it seems to me that medicine is good, but the legal aspect, the long hours, and the a**holes within the system really make it suck. Is this a fair summary?

Like I have said before, I don't know if I am going PA or MD/DO. Here at SDN, people say if there is anything else you may be interested in, do that. On another forum, the PA Forum, they say that I am young and to go on a do Med School. Talk about confusing!

I'll be honest, right now I am confused because of the many different things I have heard, both on the forums and from shadowing. I personally am not worried about the money or the training per se, but I am worried about giving alot of my time to the cause and racking up enormus debt. Oh well, i'll figure it out.

Thanks for the great thread and good luck to everyone!

dxu

Yep! Sounds very familiar. But there is no way to know if medicine is right for you unless you go thrugh the whole thing yourself. I've been in healthcare for over 17 yrs now. Got two professional licenses (RN and Licensed Acupuncturist).I'm still struggling with the indecision of going forward with med school. I feel like I've reached a certain plateau in my current fields. It has nothing to do with money per se, because prospects are good for both. But I feel that void of being a non-physician. On the other hand, at 36 y.o, having a family to take care of, and being in less than perfect health....why put myself trough it? Most docs whome I'm in contact with (business and otherwise) are warning me against it. I feel like a toddler who everybody is trying to prevent from banging his head against something. But no, oh no...he (I) needs to go and bang his head in order to "know for sure" :laugh:
Sometimes I think that putting all "eggs" in one basket is really not such a good thing, as people's wisdom states. May be should pick totally different field like business. But then I read posts of many folks wo are "crossing over" from seemingly well-esteblished careers I have to scratch the back of my head. Objectively, ppl who are in medicine now (and have been in it for a while), are telling me flat out DO NOT DO IT!!!. Why the heck can't I get my mind of it? Why "what if?" is only getting stronger as time goes by? It's like you damn if you do, and you damn if you don't. :confused: :(
Anyway, Thanks to All who continue to post.
 
I think i may have written in this topic before, but i wanted to discuss the good and bad parts of medicine from my perspective, that of a current MS4.

Strengths:
1. Salary. While it isn't what it used to be, doctors get compensated quite well for what we do. While doctors go through a little more misery than other professions, a guaranteed six figure salary is pretty darn impressive.
2. Prestige. again, less than there used to be, but i feel as though many people still consider being a doctor a prestigious profession.
3. Options. WIth an MD, there are a billion fields that you could go into and oodles of practice types that can prove financially lucrative. If i want to work in the middle of the night for 6 months out of the year, I can.
4. Clean Hands. Nurses are the real health care providers and the real work force of the hospital. They deliver the patient care and most nurses are very good with what they do. At the same time, there are many aspects of nursing that aren't that glamorous and can't be turfed to a nursing assistant or student nurse that I just could never do because of the gross factor.
5. Chicks. More true in some cultures, but girls like docs.

Weaknesses:
1. Miserable training. I'm still bitter about my surgery rotation from over a year ago. Most people don't have to go through these months. Then again, I feel as though allied health professions don't really escape it. PA's, NP's, CRNA's share in much, not all, of the misery. PA's have it the worst- 50% of the salary for 90% of the grief and 10% of the respect.

2. Intellectual stimulation. Some folks might disagree with me, but I feel like bread and butter medicine is pretty well...cookbook. Medical school teaches you about all the rare disease which you may see once or never in your rotation. But so much of the practice of medicine is routine that I think it gets a little boring after a while. On my sub-i, i felt that the challenge wasn't necessarily making diagnoses or thinkig through problems. The challenge was getting everything you needed to get done by 5pm.

3. Few options for the majority of graduates. If i had to go into primary care or internal medicine or surgery, I would be much less happy than I am now. The average american medical student doesn't have the option of going into dermatology or one of the less "medicine" oriented specialties.

4. Odd compensation strategies. If you look at other countries, dermatology isn't half as popular. Competitive specialties are competitive for hours and salary. Dermatology wouldn't be so popular if it paid like family medicine does.

5. Hours. Many specialties just over work everyone- attendings, residents, what have you.

6. Disappointment. Probably the biggest weakness is that so many of us work so hard to get to this point. We give up so much in high school to get into a good college, so much of our social lives to get into med school, so much time and happiness to get through med school. We think, "once i'm in med school, i'll be happy." Then it becomes, "once i graduate I'll be happy." then it becomes "once i finish residency, I'll have more time and I'll be happy". And then you finally become an attending after all the hard work, and you realize that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. You work alot. You get paid well, but for the amount that you work, you should be able to have everything. Your relationships have suffered and a good percentage are divorced or never married. And you're in your early to mid 30's wondering where so much of your life went, trying to figure out why you haven't found that eternal happiness that your hard work was suppose to earn you.

that said. I'm happy. I'm okay. I don't think i'd be any more or less happy if i went into another field.

*sigh* that was long. I hope this helps.
 
I think i may have written in this topic before, but i wanted to discuss the good and bad parts of medicine from my perspective, that of a current MS4.

Strengths:
1. Salary. While it isn't what it used to be, doctors get compensated quite well for what we do. While doctors go through a little more misery than other professions, a guaranteed six figure salary is pretty darn impressive.
2. Prestige. again, less than there used to be, but i feel as though many people still consider being a doctor a prestigious profession.
3. Options. WIth an MD, there are a billion fields that you could go into and oodles of practice types that can prove financially lucrative. If i want to work in the middle of the night for 6 months out of the year, I can.
4. Clean Hands. Nurses are the real health care providers and the real work force of the hospital. They deliver the patient care and most nurses are very good with what they do. At the same time, there are many aspects of nursing that aren't that glamorous and can't be turfed to a nursing assistant or student nurse that I just could never do because of the gross factor.
5. Chicks. More true in some cultures, but girls like docs.

Weaknesses:
1. Miserable training. I'm still bitter about my surgery rotation from over a year ago. Most people don't have to go through these months. Then again, I feel as though allied health professions don't really escape it. PA's, NP's, CRNA's share in much, not all, of the misery. PA's have it the worst- 50% of the salary for 90% of the grief and 10% of the respect.

2. Intellectual stimulation. Some folks might disagree with me, but I feel like bread and butter medicine is pretty well...cookbook. Medical school teaches you about all the rare disease which you may see once or never in your rotation. But so much of the practice of medicine is routine that I think it gets a little boring after a while. On my sub-i, i felt that the challenge wasn't necessarily making diagnoses or thinkig through problems. The challenge was getting everything you needed to get done by 5pm.

3. Few options for the majority of graduates. If i had to go into primary care or internal medicine or surgery, I would be much less happy than I am now. The average american medical student doesn't have the option of going into dermatology or one of the less "medicine" oriented specialties.

4. Odd compensation strategies. If you look at other countries, dermatology isn't half as popular. Competitive specialties are competitive for hours and salary. Dermatology wouldn't be so popular if it paid like family medicine does.

5. Hours. Many specialties just over work everyone- attendings, residents, what have you.

6. Disappointment. Probably the biggest weakness is that so many of us work so hard to get to this point. We give up so much in high school to get into a good college, so much of our social lives to get into med school, so much time and happiness to get through med school. We think, "once i'm in med school, i'll be happy." Then it becomes, "once i graduate I'll be happy." then it becomes "once i finish residency, I'll have more time and I'll be happy". And then you finally become an attending after all the hard work, and you realize that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. You work alot. You get paid well, but for the amount that you work, you should be able to have everything. Your relationships have suffered and a good percentage are divorced or never married. And you're in your early to mid 30's wondering where so much of your life went, trying to figure out why you haven't found that eternal happiness that your hard work was suppose to earn you.

that said. I'm happy. I'm okay. I don't think i'd be any more or less happy if i went into another field.

*sigh* that was long. I hope this helps.

Insightful post. Even though you are MS4 it sounds like you have a basic grasp of why so many people don't or do like medicine.

Like I said in my earlier post. It's all the other stuff you have to deal with that can make medicine hard. Then you add some of what this post states and there you have it, frustrated doctors.

I agree with almost everything in this post.

Other profession have similar problems. They may not like their jobs. There is a big difference though, they don't have to travel such a long educational road and find out they don't like being there.

I like being a doctor. I hate the bs that comes with it. I did not like the egos.

Board Certified Physician.
 
How to Cut the Umbilical Chord:

1. Wait Until the chord stops pulsing.
2. Place one clamp approx. 4 cm from umbilicus and one approx 8 cm distal to it.
3. Hold the area of the chord to be cut with sterile gauze and use sterile scissors to cut midway between the two clamps.
4. The baby is now totally detached from its mother.


Hahahaha:laugh:

Not that I miss my mother persay...but your forced to leave your friends, family, the life you know for a very long time. You spend two years of basic science (most of us dont have a real choice of where we go; maybe a few acceptances, but not a real choice) where ever you get in, then you get moved around 3rd and 4th year, then you get matched into your residency (again you dont have a real full choice) go whereever you get sent.

I writing this post from my old college apartment (came back to visit for a week) and my friends out here are having a blast, finally making some money and most are doing what the sorta envisioned themselves doing. Many of them are in relationships and almost all of them really do seem happy. Even being in med school the short time I ve been in it you learn to deal with your new life, but when you go back to your old life and see what everyone else is doing it reminds you of how much you re missing out on. With 2 months of med school under my belt all I see is people breaking up with their college bfs/gfs; most of the people I know in med school dont seem too happy.
 
Insightful post. Even though you are MS4 it sounds like you have a basic grasp of why so many people don't or do like medicine.

Like I said in my earlier post. It's all the other stuff you have to deal with that can make medicine hard. Then you add some of what this post states and there you have it, frustrated doctors.

I agree with almost everything in this post.

Other profession have similar problems. They may not like their jobs. There is a big difference though, they don't have to travel such a long educational road and find out they don't like being there.

I like being a doctor. I hate the bs that comes with it. I did not like the egos.

Board Certified Physician.


What field are you in?
 
Reading these posts (and I know that I'm generalizing here) people seem to be falling in two camps:

- Those that are in medicine for the money, or their own personal success, etc., and
- Those that are here for the patient care.

It is not surprising that generally, people who are answering "no" to the original question fall into the former camp. (IMO of course) This is just NOT the profession it used to be for making the phat duckets. And if you got into medicine with that as your primary objective, and are less concerned about actually "helping people," chances are you are going to be disappointed.

After all, there are only so many derm residencies to go around. :smuggrin:

Put another way... consider this hypothetical. Suppose that you cannot serve as a physician any more. Maybe God thundered from the sky and ordained it. Anyway, suppose that the Big Guy also offered you two alternative career choices: 1) an MBA office executive making decent bank or 2) a full-time nurse. Those are your only two options.

Which would you take?

As some others have noted, I can't say that I much like your "two camp" theory. It's true that medicine no longer pulls in the respect and bank that it once did.

But, I also think that those who genuinely went into medicine to "help people" are disheartened as well, because guess what? medicine is becoming less and less about that, too. It seems to me that bureaucracy is sucking the patient's best interests right out of health care.

So, I think many more are saying they wouldn't go through this again not because they are disappointed by their pay checks, but because medicine now seems to be more and more about red tape and paper work than efficient, compassionate patient care.

I don't know about anyone else, but I can work my ass off "taking care of patients" for 30+ hrs in a row and still struggle to convince myself that I truly helped anyone at the end of the day....
 
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"I don't know about anyone else, but I can work my ass off "taking care of patients" for 30+ hrs in a row and still struggle to convince myself that I truly helped anyone at the end of the day...."
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That's it!!! That is what bothers my husband as well.
 
This thread could have used a poll....
It has been enlightening.
 
Truth is being a doctor is a hard life.....
 
Yes its true, insurance companies suck:thumbdown: , malpractice lawyers suck:thumbdown: , dealing with hospital administrators sucks:thumbdown:, capitol hill sucks for slashing medicare reimbursement, yes ther are turf issues amongst different specialties, but still I WOULD ABSOLUTELY do it (radiology) over again!

What else would I see myself doing? I love my job!!! :love: I am doing exactly what I want to be doing in life! I am usually able to leave my work at work at the end of the day.

What I say is true for the specialty of radiology within medicine.
Now, would I do it over again, if I was told I couldn't do radiology... hmmm well thats debatable. :confused:

For those of you thinking about doing medicine, find out as much as you can before you make a lifetime commitment. For those already in med school, choose your specialty wisely, Its a lot harder to switch specialties than it was 20 years ago.
 
i can't stand it when ppl say don't go into medicine for the money. what other profession is as lucrative? i hear the ubiquitous answer --go into business, but what does that mean?
from what i understand the med field sucks, but everything sucks esp w/ this economy.
 
i can't stand it when ppl say don't go into medicine for the money. what other profession is as lucrative? i hear the ubiquitous answer --go into business, but what does that mean?
from what i understand the med field sucks, but everything sucks esp w/ this economy.

There are many many things you could do instead... Even if you arent making the $400k a year as a specialist (which you arent guaranteed either way) you start earning much earlier than that specialist.....probably 10 years earlier with close to $250k less in loans plus the 10 years of lost income.

There are many fields were you can make six figures. Go to law school, u ll be making 100k plus after 3 years. Engineers and programers make probably 80 to 90k after a few years in the field. Consulting, I banking (as much as they complain they still have their weekends), pharm, opt, dental, nursing, .....etc. You ll have your weekends and more importantly your youth and your 20s and early 30s.

Med school is very very hard academically, physically, emotionally, and socially.........dont do it unless if you really or atleast some what enjoy medicine. Being a doctor will never be an easy life.......as much as that sounds like BS its very true. I didnt believe it either till I started med school. You give up a lot to go down this path.
 
Here I am, another premed... So feel free to hate on me. I work in business - banking, specifically - and if I stuck with it, I could make very good money because I am good at it. But it sucks. Banking sucks. I hate business, I hate screwing customers out of money, I hate nickle-and-diming people. It is SO BORING. I am amazed by people who say they'd rather be in business, but it takes all kinds, I guess...

This thread has been very enlightening, but I have to say it epitomizes a Catch-22 for premeds. I'm reading that I can't know what it's like until I've done it... but that I'd better know what I'm getting into before I do it.

All of you, whether you love it or hate it: what do you think is the best way to find out? I am studying to be an ultrasound tech, and imaging is *so awesome*... but I want more than just to be a tech. I need intellectual challenge. But some of you say that medicine just doesn't give it to you.

So do I shadow? Someone else says shadowing doesn't tell you ****. I can't run a simulation of med school... yet I have to make sure it's right before I choose. I am 30 years old, do not yet have children, and would be sacrificing a good chunk of my life. I've been volunteering at a hospice, but that doesn't tell me anything about residency, or the real life of a physician.
Other than that people die, and it's ugly, and sad...
 
There are many many things you could do instead... Even if you arent making the $400k a year as a specialist (which you arent guaranteed either way) you start earning much earlier than that specialist.....probably 10 years earlier with close to $250k less in loans plus the 10 years of lost income.

There are many fields were you can make six figures. Go to law school, u ll be making 100k plus after 3 years. Engineers and programers make probably 80 to 90k after a few years in the field. Consulting, I banking (as much as they complain they still have their weekends), pharm, opt, dental, nursing, .....etc. You ll have your weekends and more importantly your youth and your 20s and early 30s.

Med school is very very hard academically, physically, emotionally, and socially.........dont do it unless if you really or atleast some what enjoy medicine. Being a doctor will never be an easy life.......as much as that sounds like BS its very true. I didnt believe it either till I started med school. You give up a lot to go down this path.


Yes, there are many fields where you can make six figures, meaning very low six figures. But make the money of specialists? No way. Yes, there is more money in i banking and finance generally. But finance pays better than virtually everything. In any case, it is very hard to make it in I banking. Most doctors would wash out very quickly because of the different skills needed. Concrete example: height. Being tall matters a lot in I banking. Are all doctors tall? Clearly not. Also, the hours are pretty bad in I banking. Do you have experience in both fields on which to basis your comments?

Engineering? People top out very fast. You can make much more money in medicine. Consulting . . . not too many doctors would make partner at a strategy consulting firm.

And the point about "having your youth" is very misguided. So somehow a lawyer or engineer "has his youth" in a way that a med student does not? Crazy. Lots of people work hard. It is true that 3rd med school and varying portions of residency (depending on specialty) are worse than most other tracks, but on the other hand, the first couple years of med school are better than a lot of tracks where you get on the job faster.

Frankly, if you feel you've "lost" your youth, that was your own doing. If you couldn't find time to enjoy life in med school, you probably would have felt the same in a different professional field.
 
Yes, there are many fields where you can make six figures, meaning very low six figures. But make the money of specialists? No way. Yes, there is more money in i banking and finance generally. But finance pays better than virtually everything. In any case, it is very hard to make it in I banking. Most doctors would wash out very quickly because of the different skills needed. Concrete example: height. Being tall matters a lot in I banking. Are all doctors tall? Clearly not. Also, the hours are pretty bad in I banking. Do you have experience in both fields on which to basis your comments?

Engineering? People top out very fast. You can make much more money in medicine. Consulting . . . not too many doctors would make partner at a strategy consulting firm.

And the point about "having your youth" is very misguided. So somehow a lawyer or engineer "has his youth" in a way that a med student does not? Crazy. Lots of people work hard. It is true that 3rd med school and varying portions of residency (depending on specialty) are worse than most other tracks, but on the other hand, the first couple years of med school are better than a lot of tracks where you get on the job faster.

Frankly, if you feel you've "lost" your youth, that was your own doing. If you couldn't find time to enjoy life in med school, you probably would have felt the same in a different professional field.

Are you in med school? A Physician?
 
i can't stand it when ppl say don't go into medicine for the money. what other profession is as lucrative? i hear the ubiquitous answer --go into business, but what does that mean?
from what i understand the med field sucks, but everything sucks esp w/ this economy.

Yes medicine may get you 6 digit figures but the richest people are still those that took the gamble and risks of the business world starting their own businesses from ground up not people who were the most educated or in professions like medicine. Medicine may guarantee you a decent salary but it isn't the most lucrative way to make money.
 
Are you in med school? A Physician?

In med school. Have you been in finance or law? Unless you have personal experience with every field you compare medicine to, you shouldn't pull the "are you a physician" card.
 
Yes medicine may get you 6 digit figures but the richest people are still those that took the gamble and risks of the business world starting their own businesses from ground up not people who were the most educated or in professions like medicine. Medicine may guarantee you a decent salary but it isn't the most lucrative way to make money.

So true. Medicine just doesn't have the same upside as being an entrepeneur or investment banker.
 
So true. Medicine just doesn't have the same upside as being an entrepeneur or investment banker.

seriously the richest people in medicine that I personally know didn't become rich because they were doctors but because they invested their money in other things or because they became a high up partner in a group of 8 or so physicians.

Some of the wealthiest and most succesful physicians I have known include Dr Kiran C. Patel who is famous around Tampa for having a net worth of more then 600 million not because he's a cardiologist but because he got into the darkside by owning his own HMO company which earned him millions to invest in various charities he's founded.

Other then that, two of the most respected cardiologists I know have been successful because they were like senior partners in their respective cardiology centers. One of them is the CEO of the cardiology center he founded. the other is one of 8 or so partners. Maybe a bit more then 8 people but still a partner in a group that's been really successful. One of the internists I know is wealthy too, but again its because her husband was an investor or real estate person. Something in the business world. The only one I could seriously say is wealthy based on the fact he has an MD alone and not because of owning his own practice or anything is an orthopedic surgeon. but he's the exception.

The rest of the physicians I know personally (not counting people affiliated with USF) are well off but they aren't really like rich in the sense of multi multi millionaire or anything. I imagine, for instance, that my father engineer has about the same net worth on his house as a couple of the general practitioners we know.
 
How to Cut the Umbilical Chord:

1. Wait Until the chord stops pulsing.
2. Place one clamp approx. 4 cm from umbilicus and one approx 8 cm distal to it.
3. Hold the area of the chord to be cut with sterile gauze and use sterile scissors to cut midway between the two clamps.
4. The baby is now totally detached from its mother.

hahahahaha!!! Is this what they thought you while your wife was delivering your child recently??? Did you update your blog because I want to read it. You seem like a funny and interesting guy in real life. LOL CONGRATS on the new baby.
 
Frankly, if you feel you've "lost" your youth, that was your own doing. If you couldn't find time to enjoy life in med school, you probably would have felt the same in a different professional field.
Best quote of the thread. I have been through med school and am ballz deep in intership right now. I still find time and did in med school to spend time with all my family and friends. I got married had a kid. Played Hockey almost evey Wens night with my friends and went out AT LEAST one night every weekend if not both. I did well in med school and matched right where I wanted to. Becoming a doctor is more demanding than most things but it doesn't suck the life out of you as some here make it sound. I am happy with my life and I wouldn't change a thing. I loved my 20's (still have a few more years of them). As I get older I realize - from friends and family in all walks of life - that there are miserable people everywhere including medicine - though we seem to whine more. That's their choice. YES choice. If you watched your college and med school years go by through the library window I feel bad for you but that was your choice. Maybe you should have learned some time management skills. If you can't find something you can at least tolerate in the giant field of medicine I really doubt you'll find it as janitor, lawyer, proffesor or whatever else. One thing that should be painful clear especially to those of you at least in or through third year is that life is short - get out now if your really this miserable you deserve better and your going to be dead sooner rather than later. I can't imagine anything much sadder than spending your life in this sort of misery. I hate working on cars more than anything that's why I'm not a mechanic. If you hate the buisness of working on people so much why would you become a doctor?
 
So true. Medicine just doesn't have the same upside as being an entrepeneur or investment banker.
I-Banking has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads - to sum up, effectively nobody gets those jobs, they're terribly hard on you when you have one, and they may not last long.

Being an entrepeneur, on the other hand, is something everyone can be, even docs. Docs sit at the confluence of science and medicine. From this unique vantage point you can see where improvements can be made. These improvements can be patented.
 
Would I do it over again, knowing what I know?
Definitely! I love what I do.

Where am I in my training?
PGY1

Background...
I had a couple of cool careers prior to med school. I definitely think having those careers helped me to figure out whether medicine was what I wanted to do. Definitely could have made more money in my 2nd career, if I wanted. If you do medicine, you should probably do it because you like it, not for the money. I am envious of the previous poster...I wish I was still in my 20s. My knees, shoulder, back, etc. probably would not hurt me like they do now.


Wook
 
Best quote of the thread. I have been through med school and am ballz deep in intership right now. I still find time and did in med school to spend time with all my family and friends. I got married had a kid. Played Hockey almost evey Wens night with my friends and went out AT LEAST one night every weekend if not both. I did well in med school and matched right where I wanted to. Becoming a doctor is more demanding than most things but it doesn't suck the life out of you as some here make it sound. I am happy with my life and I wouldn't change a thing. I loved my 20's (still have a few more years of them). As I get older I realize - from friends and family in all walks of life - that there are miserable people everywhere including medicine - though we seem to whine more. That's their choice. YES choice. If you watched your college and med school years go by through the library window I feel bad for you but that was your choice. Maybe you should have learned some time management skills. If you can't find something you can at least tolerate in the giant field of medicine I really doubt you'll find it as janitor, lawyer, proffesor or whatever else. One thing that should be painful clear especially to those of you at least in or through third year is that life is short - get out now if your really this miserable you deserve better and your going to be dead sooner rather than later. I can't imagine anything much sadder than spending your life in this sort of misery. I hate working on cars more than anything that's why I'm not a mechanic. If you hate the buisness of working on people so much why would you become a doctor?

Nice post!
 
\ If you hate the buisness of working on people so much why would you become a doctor?


I might have missed some parts of this thread somewhere, but I don't remember anyone expressing that they hated caring for patients... I think the issue is more frustration with all the new system changes that not only keep us away from our friends and families but keep us from doing what we thought the majority of of our days would entail which is spending time with our patients... 80 hours wouldn't seem nearly as long if it didn't seem like 60 of those hours were spent tracking down forms and arguing with medicare/caid and rehab facilities, etc. It's nice to see that others have not let this get to them, though.
 
Would I do it over again....

It depends on the speciality...

It depends on the speciality...

It depends on the speciality...

It depends on the speciality...

IMHO, there are 6 types of medical students:

1) The "medicine" type.

2) The "medical subspeciality" type.

3) The "medical science" type.

4) The "medical support" type.

5) The "surgery" type.

6) The "surgical subspeciality" type.

If you force a "surgical subspeciality" type doctor to work in a speciality that would fancy a "medicine" type doctor, then that doctor will scream a big "NO" to the question posed in this thread.
 
Would I do it over again....

It depends on the speciality...

It depends on the speciality...

It depends on the speciality...

It depends on the speciality...

IMHO, there are 6 types of medical students:

1) The "medicine" type.

2) The "medical subspeciality" type.

3) The "medical science" type.

4) The "medical support" type.

5) The "surgery" type.

6) The "surgical subspeciality" type.

If you force a "surgical subspeciality" type doctor to work in a speciality that would fancy a "medicine" type doctor, then that doctor will scream a big "NO" to the question posed in this thread.


I dont understand what you mean by type 3 and 4?
 
Because it isn't worth it. This is something that is impossible to explain to those pre-meds who are super-amped-up about medicine... and a significant portion of those same pre-meds will eventually find themselves right here where I am: realizing that it just isn't worth it. Idealism is difficult to maintain in the climate of the modern medical system. It's a good job with a terrible lifestyle.

Main thing is you have to work really tough hours, that you really wouldn't have to in many other professions. But if you are a workaholic, you'll be ok.
 
One word. ANESTHESIOLOGY. Beats the hell out of fixing teeth and pays just as well or better, plus an incredible amount of flexability. Everything else sucks though. :smuggrin:

Extremely boring, though, you might spring into action 10% of the time, but most of the time you do jack and sit in your chair writing down VS and what meds are administered during the surgery. Now surgeons they do all the fun stuff :thumbup:
 
Main thing is you have to work really tough hours, that you really wouldn't have to in many other professions. But if you are a workaholic, you'll be ok.

After residency, doctors actually have more schedule flexibility than most lawyers or most professionals.
 
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