652316541

Removed
Nov 17, 2009
15
0
Status
I saw a thread like this from 2005 but it's closed. I'm thinking about medical school but I'm hesitant because of all the negativity that I hear from practicing physicians. So, if you could do it over again, would you?
 

MOHS_01

audemus jura nostra defendere
10+ Year Member
Oct 2, 2005
11,996
7,808
the old rickhouse
Status
Attending Physician
I'm not sure... I would not have gone straight from undergrad to med school -- that much I know. I would have tested other waters prior to making the time, life, and financial commitment that is medical education.
 
About the Ads

docB

Chronically painful
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Nov 27, 2002
7,849
535
Las Vegas, NV
Status
Attending Physician
No. I think I would stick with firefighting. Medicine is a demanding field. The demands are increasing and the rewards are shrinking both financial and psychic. Society has a lot of problems and people are looking to medicine to fix them without putting anything in. It's a long term loser.
 

docB

Chronically painful
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Nov 27, 2002
7,849
535
Las Vegas, NV
Status
Attending Physician
I want to add a different point too.

When you're thinking about going to med school it's this kind of romantic challenge you lay down for yourself, kind of the nerd's version of climbing Mt. Everest but with a lot more time commitment and long term ramifications.

The thing is, once you've done it it's no longer the mystical achievement. It's just something you did. I know that feeling when you're training for the climb. No one can dissuade you and nothing can stand in your way. That's why pre meds never listen when doctors tell them about all the bad stuff like loans and liability and so on.

At least with Mt. Everest after you walk away you're free. After you climb med school you are chained to big debt, high liability and you may have even lost a big chunk of your humanity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AquaticSunrise13

Taurus

Paul Revere of Medicine
15+ Year Member
Jul 27, 2004
3,091
292
Status
Attending Physician
Before making an investment in higher education, I think people need to really take a hard and honest look at themselves. Figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are, what their likes and dislikes are, etc. Then decide if post-college education is right for them and if so which route to take. For me, having worked prior to going back to medical school, I ruled out law school and business school quickly because the problem with those fields is that you have to have the right skillset to really pull it off to justify the investment. Very few people have what it takes. Most JD's and MBA's struggle and barely make it financially to justify the $100k in loans they took out. Medical school is a good option because if you survive the medical school and residency process you more or less can expect a certain amount of income and job stability. For me, I learned too late into third year medical school that I hated the hours, especially call. The material is not that hard and can be boring but tolerable. Pt care is ok. But it's the hours that I can't simply stand. Thankfully I matched into a specialty that fits me and my personality quite well. After residency, I probably will do 9-5 with little or no call. In retrospect, I would have gone to dental school. Why? 1) it's 9-5 type hours, no nights, no weekends. 2) mostly cash-based and very little insurance. When Obamacare becomes reality, you'll work harder for less pay. Besides, who wants to be told by the govt how much their work is worth? I prefer letting the market dictate how much I can charge. 3) working with your hands. Even though I thought I would do surgery when I first went to medical school, I soon realized that my back could barely survive surgery clerkship, so 5 years of grueling surgery residency was out of the question. Furthermore, I think that most surgeons eventually develop back problems because it's just not natural to be standing or walking for 10 hours a day. In dentistry, you can work with your hands which is what I like but you get to sit down when you do so. 4) you can start practicing after dental school instead of having to do another 3-7 years of residency and fellowship. This last point is very important. We had an categorical medicine intern get fired 2 weeks ago from my program. How much does that suck to spend 4 years in school and 200k in loans and then have your entire medical career end just like that? Often times if you get fired from residency it's due to politics and not performance-related. In dentistry, you just need to survive 4 years of dental school not the 7+ years it takes to become a physician. 5) there's less book material to learn. I like learning about new things but medicine is bit much for me. I like to do other things besides reading about medicine in the 1 hour I have free every day. In dentistry, you don't have to do as much work to keep current. 6) the income in dentistry is quite good. On average, dentists make more than a primary care physician. That's >150k. If you do a residency in orthodontics or endodontics you can make >300k working 3 days a week without nights or weekends. How sweet is that? You have a much better chance of matching into orthodontics or endodontics than derm. As a disclaimer, I should mention that my fiance is a dentist so I have inside knowledge of the other side. After comparing the two, I wish that I would considered dentistry more. However, this decision is highly dependent on the individual and their skills and personality.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: nn125 and Aelius

peppy

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Nov 20, 2002
1,681
65
Status
Attending Physician
I think one reason that so many residents and attendings end up becoming bitter is because even if you do have every reason to be confident that a medical career is what you want out of life when you are 18-22, the path to a medical career is so time-consuming that by the time you're done with jumping through all the hoops you may very well have changed into a different person with different priorities as part of the normal process of maturing and growing as you go through life.

When I was 22, I didn't have any reason not to want to throw myself wholeheartedly into the madness of med school. By the time I was done with med school though, I was an older person who realized the value of spending time with my aging/ill loved ones while I could, I had a significant other who I wanted to see (and would like to have time to have kids with), etc...and as the years go by I can definitely notice that my tolerance for pulling all nighters is sapping away. The time consuming, stressful nature of this life has definitely required a lot of personal sacrifices.
I think medicine is one of the most interesting careers out there, but I am not sure that it actually was worth it all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AquaticSunrise13

Southpaw

Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Aug 12, 2004
1,613
1,716
Status
Attending Physician
The thing is, once you've done it it's no longer the mystical achievement. It's just something you did. I know that feeling when you're training for the climb. No one can dissuade you and nothing can stand in your way. That's why pre meds never listen when doctors tell them about all the bad stuff like loans and liability and so on.

At least with Mt. Everest after you walk away you're free. After you climb med school you are chained to big debt, high liability and you may have even lost a big chunk of your humanity.
This is all so true, and so palpable for me at this point in my life. I was an engineer formerly, and viewed medicine with such mysticism. Having gone through the pre-reqs, med school, and currently in residency, I can say without a doubt that I couldn't and wouldn't do it again, but I'm glad that I've done it. If that makes any sense. It's also so true that you can never dissuade a premed from med school, because they're so determined and so geared towards the goal, that there's often no turning back.

Medicine is running into the perfect storm, and in a bad way. Reimbursements are decreasing, government wants increased control, tuition is increasing, the length of training is the same or longer as medicine continues to become so specialized, midlevels want more and more without the lengthy training, and on and on. I think medicine needs to adapt to the changes and become a sleeker, sexier version of its currently self, but I fear it's unlikely.

In light of all that, I wish I'd entertained the idea of dental school. It's really such a fantastic job in light of everything going on with medicine. And for all the reasons Taurus mentioned. It's versatile, you can specialize or do general right out of school and do fine. You can do a one year residency if you desire, and then open up shop. You can still do all the mission work you want (appealing for me). You're often your own boss. You could be cash-only and have no problem at all keeping your doors open. You work 4 days a week!

Medicine today requires way too much sacrifice, delayed gratification, and too many people fighting for the scraps on the table. In residency, physicians often don't respect each other's fields, look down on others in perceived lesser fields, and attitudes are adjusted accordingly. It's disgusting. In the end, with medicine in its current state and with the outlook as it currently is, there's no way in hell I'd do it again.
 

WhoisJohnGalt

NYC Psychiatrist
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 27, 2005
984
10
Status
Attending Physician
I saw a thread like this from 2005 but it's closed. I'm thinking about medical school but I'm hesitant because of all the negativity that I hear from practicing physicians. So, if you could do it over again, would you?
Not just no, but hell no. Deciding to go to medical school was the worst decision I've ever made. Now that I'm 250k in debt, all I can do is find a specialty I hope I can live with, and I hope I've managed that, but I would definitely not do this again if I had the choice.
 

med2UCC

Relentlessly Optimistic
10+ Year Member
May 30, 2005
479
3
At the back of the North wind
Status
Attending Physician
I would absolutely do it again. I love what I am doing and I had fun in medical school for the most part. Part of that is probably because I did med school in Ireland, which has a totally different training system whcih suited me well, and part of that is probably because I am a generally optimistic person who is happy. Part of it may also be that I am in Canada, with a different residency system. But most of it is that medicine suits me down to the ground while still leaving me time to do some of the other things I love, like pottery and stained glass work.
If you'd really be just as happy as a dentist, be a dentist (or do an MBA - they make lots of money!). I'd loath dentistry, and the only part of medicine I don't have a great handle on is the business paperwork side(but excellent SOAP notes:laugh:), so that eliminates the MBA. Find something you like and do it. Sadly, it is only by doing many things that we learn whether we like them or not, and medicine is a very long thing and expensive field to "Try". Cheers,
M
 

docB

Chronically painful
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Nov 27, 2002
7,849
535
Las Vegas, NV
Status
Attending Physician
Last edited:

InductionAgent

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2004
468
7
Status
Attending Physician
I saw a thread like this from 2005 but it's closed. I'm thinking about medical school but I'm hesitant because of all the negativity that I hear from practicing physicians. So, if you could do it over again, would you?
Yes, I would do medical school again. Although at times it was very stressful, I enjoyed the challenges of medical school and residency. As an attending anesthesiologist, I now have adequate personal time. If you are somebody who finds satisfaction in working and studying hard, then medicine could be a good choice.
 
About the Ads

roja

7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2003
6,040
20
48
NYC--->San Francisco
Status
Attending Physician
Yup. But I worked in a completely different field and really took my time making the decision.... looked at all the pros and cons.

its not for everyone and the level of sacrifice is high, but the payoff (not financial) is worht it for me.
 

filter07

10+ Year Member
Aug 30, 2006
1,553
241
Status
Attending Physician
Going to medical school was by far the most life changing and worst decision of my life. It is rewarding but the sacrifices are not worth it for me. If I could do it over I would have gone to dental school and do a specialty. Dentistry is not as prestigious but it is good enough for most sane people. Medicine just gets worse and worse. Work harder and harder, get paid less and less, get respected less and less, have less autonomy, more paperwork. Over the past 10 years, not much has gotten better in medicine, whereas a lot has gotten worse. Medicine is a slowly decaying ship and we will be underwater soon. As bad as it is now, it will be even worse for the incoming students, who will probably end up with $300,000 student loans at ridiculous interest rates.
 

pillowhead

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Oct 25, 2002
1,027
4
Visit site
Status
I'm not sure that I can really say until I'm done with residency whether or not the whole thing was worth it. Sometimes I think I could have been a really good and happy clinical pharmacist.

I will say this though--when I went through even just a few years ago, tuition was significantly lower and loans were significantly cheaper. When I started med school in 2003, my tuition was about $32,000 a year and I could obtain loans at 2.875%. I borrowed about $100k over four years because I had some help from family. I have already whittled that down to $66k in residency by living a very frugal lifestyle and coming into a little bit of money from my grandparents. I am married, no kids (though pregnant), so my husband brings in some income though less than what I earn as a resident.

Contrast that to today when my medical school is charging $42,000 a year for tuition for 2009-10 (only SIX years later--gone up by $10,000) and interest rates are at 6.8%. I would have had to borrow an extra 40k pushing my loans up to $140k. At the higher interest rate and with a bigger principal, all that money that I've already used to pay off some of my current principal would probably only have paid the interest.

With a baby on the way, a questionable job market for me, and a very uncertain job market for my husband as he finishes up his studies, I can't tell you how grateful I am to have $66k in loan principal rather than $140k. And to have the lower interest rate, too. $140k isn't even that much. I'm hearing stories of people having >$200k in debt and that can't all be stafford loans so some of those interest rates are going to be astronomical. If you have undergrad debt as well (I don't) or heaven forbid, want to marry another physician, you're talking about a level of debt three to four times what most americans have as a mortgage. It's absolutely outrageous and not realistically manageable if you ever want to live a lifestyle beyond that of a student (i.e. own a home, have two reasonably nice cars, have two kids with moderate savings for college, etc).

If you truly have no help with medical school costs and are looking at private school tuition and have no interest in joining the military, I would very very seriously reconsider your career choice. I hate to say it, but going into medicine will only get harder and harder for those without significant family money to back them up.
 

lowbudget

7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Aug 4, 2003
1,380
32
.
Yes. Definitely. I hated working for a Wall Street firm. At the time, I said "if I had to do it again, I'd be a doctor." So, I walked away from what was a promising career & the blood money that came with it. For those who dream about what life would be like on the Street, it's very much romanticized & mystified as much as how some of you envisioned medicine. Call us ******. Call us addicts, but people make so much money on the Street that they feel enslaved/trapped in their jobs. My decision to leave the Street for med school was a running joke. Clearly, I was making a bad financial decision in their minds, what irony. And in my second act of defiance, I picked family medicine despite urging to do anesthesia, pedi, IM/Pulm/CC, EM... "anything but FM". But I picked it because my FM attendings were the happiest faculty out of everyone I rotated with in 3rd & 4th year.

My practice is everything I romanticized it would be as a family doc & more meaningful & gratifying than any day on the Street because I feel like I'm making a difference. Young, old, healthy, sick, common & obscure, inpatient, outpatient, urgent, & chronic... the variety is phenomenal & I feel like I'm challenged and learning. My call schedule is a piece of cake. I do work hard, though, & my hours are long... but that would've been true no matter what job I chose.

I'm happy with my pay (even though statistically I make much less than a whole miserable lot of you). I feel like I earned every penny I take home. When I stop having fun at my job, I'll leave... there's no blood money... my freedom & happiness is worth more than that.

The difference, I think, is that I practice in the community & I'm versatile. I'm removed from the hospital money & power structure and that makes a huge difference. Don't get me wrong, I have good days & bad ones just like everyone else.

I'd encourage you to chase your dreams and not let temptation detract you from them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: catnip12

dynx

Yankee Imperialist
15+ Year Member
Jan 22, 2003
4,584
205
IN YOUR HEAD...let me out!
Visit site
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
I would. But only because I love CT surgery. If I lost my hands...not only would I leave surgery I would leave medicine.
As a side note...I also wouldnt take out 250k to go into medicine. My decision is based upon me:
1. knowing I love a field
2. having had a relatively easy time in medical school (easier than undergrad)
3. having parents that could easily foot the bill
if any of these things weren't true I would RUN from medicine so fast it would make your head spin.
 
Apr 17, 2009
99
0
Michigan
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Yes, I would do it again, but with a caveat. The caveat being that I would only do it again if I knew that I would be able to match into the field that I am about to match into (radiation oncology). I was fortunate enough to find a field of medicine that I find absolutely fascinating and a patient population that I enjoy taking care of. Furthermore, I will be able to enjoy a high quality of life as an attending physician. I feel very blessed to be able to join a field that suits me so well, but many are not so lucky.

As many on people on this thread have pointed out, there are many negative aspects of medicine. After busting a** for 13 years (4 years undergrad + 4 years medical school + 5 years residency) we are left with an enormous debt load (250K + interest), the lost income of NOT working those 13 years (opportunity cost), declining reimbursement and losing out on a significant portion of the best years of our lives (something many people seem to overlook). If you are truly interested in the intrinsic aspects of taking care of patients, have a strong work ethic, are committed to life-long learning, can deal with delayed gratification and decreasing reimbursements, then go for it. However, if you cannot tolerate any of the five aforementioned factors, then I would advise you to look elsewhere for employment. Best of luck.
 

Ashers

Bacteria? Don't exist.
10+ Year Member
Apr 5, 2006
5,260
13
Land of Entrapment
Status
Attending Physician
Yeah, sure. I went to medical school as the option that seemed to be right -- based on what I liked and what I didn't, and I knew my dream of training orcas at SeaWorld probably wouldn't pan out, even if I did manage to get a PhD in marine biology (it's still my dream job to work with whales and dolphins). I kinda fell into medicine in senior year towards the end of the year then had to take a year off.

However, I'd do some things differently with applying to colleges, medical school, and stuff during school knowing what I know now (basically politics and where I ended up).
 

babel

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jul 20, 2006
368
2
Status
Medical Student
For me, I learned too late into third year medical school that I hated the hours, especially call. The material is not that hard and can be boring but tolerable. Pt care is ok. But it's the hours that I can't simply stand. Thankfully I matched into a specialty that fits me and my personality quite well. After residency, I probably will do 9-5 with little or no call.
...the path to a medical career is so time-consuming that by the time you're done with jumping through all the hoops you may very well have changed into a different person with different priorities as part of the normal process of maturing and growing as you go through life.
I have to say right now, nearing the end of my third year, I am 50-50 on this question and it is for a combination of the 2 reasons listed above. For one, there is simply nothing I hate more than waking up in the dark & coming home in the dark - and I've only been doing it for ~9mo. It makes such an amazing difference to be able to wake up at 6-6:30 vs. 4-4:30 - the latter just feels inhumane. The thought of doing so for the rest of the life makes me very very sad. Luckily, I have found a specialty I am excited about intellectually and that has just about the most reasonable hours out there. And it is only because of this specialty that I am even 50-50 - if you had asked me in 1st or 2nd year, I would have answered with a resounding "no!".

And as peppy mentioned, it is possible to undergo an enormous change in personal value and priorities over the 4 years of medical school, and that has certainly happened to me. When I was in high school & college, I could wake up at 4 or 5am on a regular basis to study, and yet as I said I dread the same hours now. Probably has something to do with the amount of personal freedom involved - waking up early to study in your pajamas with a cup of coffee is very different from waking up early to run around the hospital feeling ignored & useless. I also had no idea how debt averse I was until I starting taking on 6-figure debt - but there's no turning back now.

To be honest, I am probably more on the "no" side. I don't really care too much about the income (especially since so much of mine is going to my debt until I'm in my 40's). The job security and sense of personal satisfaction are great, but I can think of other careers that would suit me and still provide me with these things (maybe pharmacist, teacher). So no, I wouldn't do it again.
 

rockit

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jun 6, 2004
240
0
Status
I want to add a different point too.

When you're thinking about going to med school it's this kind of romantic challenge you lay down for yourself, kind of the nerd's version of climbing Mt. Everest but with a lot more time commitment and long term ramifications.

The thing is, once you've done it it's no longer the mystical achievement. It's just something you did. I know that feeling when you're training for the climb. No one can dissuade you and nothing can stand in your way. That's why pre meds never listen when doctors tell them about all the bad stuff like loans and liability and so on.

At least with Mt. Everest after you walk away you're free. After you climb med school you are chained to big debt, high liability and you may have even lost a big chunk of your humanity.
Totally agree. If it wasn't for ego, I could have gotten a finance degree and have 500k in the bank right now.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
This thread is an excellent example of what happens when you go into medicine for the wrong reasons i.w.. money prestige respect etc.

For the OP, follow your heart. You will work hard in every medical specialty from Surgery to Radiation Oncology. I know some surgeons that love their work much more than radiologists because their career gives them meanong and purpose.

Also dont follow a career for perceived benefits of lifestyle. For example, anyone that thinks radiology is a 8 to 5 job is clueless about radiology. With the advent of 24/7 ER coverage, Pacs, and negative turf wars with nighthawk groups radiologist are doing a lot of internal 3rd shift coverage to save their groups contracts. Plus, in no other medical specialty can a whole group of physicians be pan fired so easily due to competing groups. Since radiologists dont bring in patients there is very little if any job security. Plus if you get a job it will be in a rural area.
 
About the Ads

Winged Scapula

Cougariffic!
Staff member
Administrator
Lifetime Donor
20+ Year Member
Apr 9, 2000
39,985
28,403
forums.studentdoctor.net
Status
Attending Physician
...I knew my dream of training orcas at SeaWorld probably wouldn't pan out, even if I did manage to get a PhD in marine biology (it's still my dream job to work with whales and dolphins).
I hear there's an opening at the Orlando Sea World.
 

Black Adder

10+ Year Member
Apr 3, 2009
269
2
CA
Status
Medical Student
Can more attendings/residents/med students just indulge me, tell me what I want to hear please! Tell me that I'm making the best decision of my life, that my life will be filled with a sense of great purpose, I will be swimming in a pool of money (scrooge mcduck like...), and I'll be nailing chicks left and right..... and that the 280k (conservative estimate..) in debt that I'm about to incur is chump change that I can pay off at the drop of a hat after residency. Please!!!

I'm an MS-0 and I think I'm already way to cynical about what's ahead of me.... I start in a few more months and I already feel it's too late to turn back. Crap....
 

KeratinPearls

10+ Year Member
Apr 2, 2007
1,057
144
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
Here are a few things I learned along the way....

-Medicine is a sh*tload of work and studying.
-I've been seriously burned out many many times.
-you have to make huge sacrifces.
-its freaking demanding (moreso depending on what field you are in)

Overall, do medicine if you enjoy and truly love helping people. It helps to be a positive person...that will help get you through the tough times.

No one said it was going to be easy. I'd rather work hard and make fairly good money than work hard and make little money.
 

Taurus

Paul Revere of Medicine
15+ Year Member
Jul 27, 2004
3,091
292
Status
Attending Physician
Here's an interesting thread from Sermo about physicians discussing the sad state that medicine finds itself in. Since most can't see the thread, I'll share a portion of it. The variety of the specialties and honesty is quite revealing.

How do I close my doors?

Just curious as to how we go about closing down our practice? After 5 years of private practice, I'm ready to close the doors. I want out and I want out now. I can't take this anymore.

I still owe over $200,000 in student loans but I don't care anymore. I got on this treadmill wanting to help others. Boy did my 20th century Norman Rockwell physician idealism get corrected quickly by a run in the real world of medical practice in the 21st century.

I'm no longer willing to deny my own needs (or even the fact I have needs) or those of my family to serve at the false god of "doing good" or "helping people." I'm no longer willing to have the life sucked out of me by fear of attorneys, audits, etc. I'm no longer willing to have the constant anxiety of keeping my practice afloat financially on top of everything else.

I'm burned out by just the sheer pathos I see clinically in America today. Forget money, healthcare reform, paper-work, threats of impending audits which scare the beejeezus out of me. But add the two together and I find the job of being a physician in the 21st century a lose/lose proposition.

I look at that "Board Certification" I worked so hard to get and think "what a pity I wasted the first 42 years of my life on a pipe-dream."

Now I just want off the merry-go-round. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results then clearly my continued participation as a practicing physician is insane. Is there any other way to put it?

I'm tired of waking up at 2 am and 3 am and not being able to go back to sleep; sick with worry over $, my patients, my family, and, yes, ashamedly, myself. All that medical training did successfully program me into a human being capable of nearly every self-neglecting quality one can possess. And for what? This?

Just show me the door. Let me off this ride. Check please!

Pulmonology
For me, it gets progressively worse remaining in practice. I used to be able to overcome my disgust with the current state of healthcare by telling myself that I enjoyed the "small stuff". But now, the insanity has even wiped out what small pleasures I get from being a physician. I'm planning my exit strategy.

Family Medicine
Reality is behind the post. Get out while you still have time to enjoy your life and spend time with your family. The current society and culture does not appreciate you. Run to urgent care. Take out a classified ad telling the world that you are shutting down. If the medical board does not like the way you did it, get your 15 minutes of fame and tell them why....

Internal Medicine
Gabrielle, good to see you back, but sorry under such circumstances.

I know exactly where you are. There are many of us in the same place. You are one of the braver ones, willing to get out with your sanity intact.

Think about teaching, either at a college level or at a residency program. You may find some joy in that (albeit with a different set of problems) and you may be able to do some private practice on your own terms on the side.

Whatever you do, good luck and know that you have our support.

Pain Medicine
Very sad but the reality is that many physicians feel exactly this way. There is no end in site for us other than to unify and quit playing the game as it is currently. Until enough physicians figure out that we have all the power as we deliver the service, we will be stuck on this merry go round and continue to wallow in our own self pity.

Neurology
I completely understand your frustration, I have felt this process progressing over the past ten plus years and now we are being attacked on all sides. It is difficult to find a quick answer to what to transition towards, changing specialties might do something but still SOS in the end, teaching is OK if you have a propensity for it, slaving one self out if another as long as the terms of employment are strickly defined, finding a business to get involved in is another possibility. Just take the time to research your choices well, don't worry about the money- in the end that will work it's self out. best of luck

Allergy and Immunology
I feel exactly as you do and am in a similar situation. I'm in my 50s now, and just finishing paying off my own school debt as my daughter gets ready for college. Being a salaried physician has helped keep me sane. I don't have anywhere near the headaches of someone who owns their own practice. There are, of course, disadvantages which have been discussed in numerous other posts.

Pain Medicine
Most PCPs in private practice feel that way. Unfortunately med and premed students don't know what they are getting themselves into. My kids will not go to med school. Veterinary medicine is the place to be: your patients always appreciate you and they pay cash, willingly.
Salaried urgent care, salaried in the hospital. Our little community hospital PCPs make $300k a year. Of course, they see 50 patients a day...
To close you need to contact your state medical association for the rules in your state. In SC you have to post your intentions at least 3x in the local major rags in the 90 days preceeding the close date, and publish where patients may pick up their records, or to whom they will be sent.
Why isn't it an option for the patients to pick up a copy of their records? You'd still need to keep copies, but should have fewer requests. Mine are on EMR and would just need a hard drive back up locked up in a safe at home.

Pediatrics
I feel your frustration and pain; I have 16 months left on a 5 year residency and can plainly see where I don't want to end up. I'd love to just do free clinic work all the time...too bad I have 200K worth of loans. :(

I like the idea of locums, especially since you just do your work and go home. Shift work isn't for everyone, but the inherent scheduling of it makes the crappiness of medicine feel less overwhelming.

BTW, thanks for opening up and being honest. Physicians are known for destroying themselves when in fact, there are tons of us out there that feel the same way. Good luck!

Pediatrics
Here is a guy... who sees the light for himself... I think many of us would take a career change... Well maybe a job change... but we are all afraid that being in the business for 25 years what are we able to do as a job, and sustain our lifestyles...
I couldnt agree with him more... Tired of people talking about healthcare debate. Its only going to make it worse... Something has to be done to level the playing field.
I am tired of how one doc gets paid 80 for a vist... and I get paid 53 for the same service. The waste is no longer what it used to be... Now I spend 600 a week in a salary for someone to put things into the computer, and chase the insurance company to see what happened to the check, a computer that cost me 25k to set up.. and another 750 a month for health insurance... plus the 7.65 % social security and medicare taxes... And the question is at what cost? I always knew I was going to work long hours... and I was going to sacrifice my private time... but I didnt think I was going to have to struggle to get my kid thru college? Its broken... and I hope it all crashes... So we can start something new... and that patients realize that they really need to have more respect for the commitment that it took to get here... and the commitment it takes to stay... without feeling like its what they are entitled too for free..

Surgery, General
I was in your position for the past two years. I would recommend taking time to write down everything you would like to have to make your life more fulfilling and happy. For me, this included more time with my husband and at my own home. I wanted to not have to deal with employees, and the business side of running my own practice. Even though my husband and I ran the office together, there was never any off time. I took an employeed position at a neighboring hospital, and that was better for about 3 months. After that initial honeymoon time, it was clear that all I was looked at was as an object to bring money into the hospital. I looked back at my list of things I really wanted in life to make life worth living again. Even though the wall to achieve those goals seemed insurmountable, my husband and I worked on the list together- taking one at a time. To find what I wanted, we had to move half-way across the country to an entirely different place than I'd ever lived before. It was a good thing for both of us. Now, I am learning how to relax and learn how to enjoy life again. I am still very much in debt, though. This will go away. I am working at a place which is in the health service corps loan repayment program, so by the end of this next year, my many years of loans will finally come to an end. Then I'll just have our personal debt to deal with. Life will get better- although I know it is hard to see that right now.

Family Medicine
Gabrielle we are with you- good to have made this decision now, you are still young!
I am 40 years old and leaving primary care (employed position) to become a full-time hospitalist in 2 months but yesterday would not be soon enough.

Today the staff told a woman that she had 15 minutes for her acute complaints of migraines- she proceeded to barrage me with a litany of other complaint and issues, despite my efforts to politely redirect her. She actually said to me "well they told me I only had 15 minutes but I figured you couldn't go anywhere once I had you in the room."

This attitude is one of many, many things I will not miss! I am a part-time hospitalist now and for the most part find it stimulating and rewarding- more medicine, far less bull****. Best of all when I'm off I am truly off- and I'll have every other week to enjoy my kids and my life in general. There are other options out there for you- don't feel guilty about leaving, and don't give up!

I think I'll change my user name after the switch- zek is a Russian word for prisoner if you've ever read Solzenitsyn.

Internal Medicine
It is time for doctors to ''semi-unionise'' and tell the lawyers of the country..not just the trial attorneys but all their brethren..that one day we will straight go to cash based medicine and charge $25-$50 visit..see 25 patients a day..have only the front office person..do our own BP/Pulse/Injection.. make $25-30k a month and be happy.
It is possible to do that

And as for the citizens of the country..they need to prioritize..health or their home and car??
We are just 788k of us in the USA..that makes it 1 physician for 1 million..bad ratio, bad ratio!!!
We can be in good business if we did not have any GOVt or Ins company telling what we can or cannot make

Pediatrics
I left practice after 26, mainly for many of the same reasons that Gabrielle did--and the desire not to have to deal with my (now) ex-partner. Now I am hospital based. Not the ideal solution I had hoped for, as there is an entire universe out there that abuses Medicare but, at least I do not have to worry about whether I will take anything home at the end of the month and no night call. I even have time to stop and smell the roses..........

Family Medicine
I too am closing my practice. I have done full time FP, and part time ER for twenty-seven years and in April I am making emergency medicine my full time job. I like it almost as well, and the pay is literally infinitely better, since I now make zero dollars from the practice for most months. The insurance companies have cut so far back, and demand so much more control, and we have to spend so much time precerting tests and referrals, and documenting to meet billing requirements, that there is little time for anything else including generating an income. The government keeps talking about the importance of primary care, while cutting reimbursement to the bone.

Patients think that medical care should be completely free. They argue with the front office that they can't afford and will not pay their co-payments, then leave and go into the nail salon next door and pay $100 for a manicure and pedicure. Not only medicine, but people have dramatically changed over the last 30 years too. There is no respect for me or my time, folks want to be seen when they are two hours late, and noncompliance is as high as I have ever seen. I really do not care much about treating anyone under 70 years old any more. The 20 somethings all live in a world more controlled by their sex organs than their brains, drug seekers are everywhere.Tthere is in our country a profound era of anti-intellectualism and narcissism combined with an individual level of self confidence that is completely disjointed from actual ability. Cognitive dissonance rules the day.

I am a living anachronism these days. Honor, empathy, and a work ethic are all out of vogue.

God help us all!

Family Medicine
In my small community , I was the solo guy in a community run by a large, multi-specialty group, a hospital paid group, of under-worked and over-paid narcissists, a community health center that, while well-staffed, had begun competing in the community, because fereral grants and the ability to collect 100% on medicaid, still didn't pay the bills.
I received very sparing call coverage from the hospital group and only left town 4-5 weekends per year, and had a week of vacation every 2-3 years. I took call every night I was home, and because I had known most of my patients for a long time, was treated very considerately most of the time. I always took medicaid, but I was very willing to terminate them at the first sign of bad behavior. I have no narcissistic rescue fantasies, I lost them when I was a cop.
I competed very well, so well in fact, that I was a frequent target of fairly malicious gossip by the large group, because I wasn't miserable and had no one telling me how to treat pts. or what to prescribe. I also didn't have to sit through endless cheer-leading meetings about increasing productivity and crushing the competition.
So why leave? The hospital group decided that covering me 15 days a year, in which they handled 2 phone calls, was too big a burden, at a time when my first grandchild was due in a town 2 hours away. Plus, Newt Gringrich showed up in Spokane and annnounced that making medicine all electronic would solve every problem in medicine and that all of us should be computerized by 2014, at a starting cost of 40k per doc. I lead a small life, without toys or extravagance. My wife is well-employed, well respected and absolutely loves what she does. It was time.
I sent my patients 30 day notice letters, and placed an ad in the local paper for two weeks. I sold the equipment I could and stored the rest with my charts. Fortunately, in Washington, you only have to provide records for one year after you retire.
I miss doing patient care, and I miss being involved in people's lives. I DO NOT miss having to come up with workable soluttions to impossible problems, only to have the patient ignore me. I DO NOT miss Obama lying about me and how I take care of patients. And I DO NOT miss sitting in endless, stupid hospital meetings that make zero difference in anything.
You will have guilt if you see former patients at the store or the fair, as I do. Now, 1 1/2 years later, patients still ask me if I might re-open because they face 2-4 MONTH waiting times to get an appointment.( I was always same day). I feel bad about that, but I didn't make the system. I did the best I could till I couldn't anymore.

Family Medicine
I owe over 100K from med school, 200K from opening my own FP practice and credit cards on top of all of that. In my wildest nightmares, did I ever envision my financial life going this way. I have a good practice (have been voted "best doc" in my community twice) but can't make any money.

I am getting radical. We are downsizing from a 400K house to a "manufactured home" for about 75K. I plan on being totally debt-free in 3-5 years by living very frugally. I am 42 so I figured I still have some time. I too looked at the employment route. It sucks the life out of me just talking to those organizations..they completely squash your independence.

Internal Medicine
I just closed mine after 15 years - be glad you saw the light in only 5 years. Almost destroyed my marriage even though husband has been running office since day 1. Working for someone is not fix unless you want a CPA to tell you see more patients. It is only going to worsen until dr.s stop allowing non-docs control their every move as you put so well. It is brainwashing - get out now. You will be fine and just hanging in there till it improves is not the solution. Don't destroy your life outside of medicine - the most demanding/difficult patients couldn't give a damn about me as my closure proved.

Otolaryngology
I fully understand where you're coming from, Gabrielle. Years ago a younger physician told me that he felt sorry for because I had been in medicine long enough to remember when it was actually good. I spent 25 years in private practice, mostly solo in smaller cities, and I can honestly say the first 6 or 7 were very fulfilling. Sad, isn't it?

I quit two years ago and started doing locums exclusively. I wish I had done it sooner. I work two weeks per month and make more than I did trying to squeeze money out of third parties full time+.

A couple practical tips. I was told that I should keep the charts until the statute of limitations is up. Unfortunately that is a moving target in some states so the only sure thing is to keep them at least seven years or until any pediatric patients have turned 21. I had 75 cases of charts in my basement for many years. BTW forget scanning the charts. On one occasion I closed a satellite office. Prior to a move I tried to combine those charts with the main office. Three of my kids spent every spare moment they had for two weeks at my office shredding just the duplicate pages. We generated eight dozen large trash bags of shreds and burned out two shredders.

Family Medicine
I feel your pain. I am 22 days away from turning 40 (for which I could not care less) but I have almost completed my third year on my own, being a solo physician with over 180K in personal med school debt, not to mention the 275K business loans. I had a busier year last year, grossed close to 500K, and my take home pay was 82K. I have no retirement, I average 4 hours of sleep, and I have to deal with patients throwing it in my face that if I can't see them in a reasonable time frame (within 24 hours on my scale, theirs it is within 2-3 hours that they call) they will take their business elsewhere. I feel your pain.
Also, not to start throwing mud, but I was floored when I read rowingcardion respose. I am sorry, but I would not have sleepless nights if I got specialist reimbursements. I would speculate that a cardiologist salary is light years away from what I could dream about. Give me a break, I have to fight with insurance companies to validate my removing a malignant mole, and I might see $100 for the time an effort, but let's just whip up a cath and sit back and watch the dollar signs flow!

Good luck

Gastroenterology
I wish the general public could see the litany of problems, complaints, and general despair of physicians in private practice which are posted on this web site. What an illuminating collection of letters!!!!

Pediatrics
Your last paragraph was EXACTLY the way that I felt 2 years ago when I was 42. I think docs our age have watched the practice of medicine crumble in front of our eyes feeling like we can't do a thing about it unlike our older peers who actually experienced some joy in practice before this last decade and a half of massive changes in how medical care is given and paid for. One year ago I started a direct practice (cash-based) and have not signed any contracts with any insurance company or government programs. We file out of network on behalf of the patient. I admit patients to a hospitalist. Granted, it is a slower start, but I have found some wonderful patients who enjoy the slower-paced, personal care and I am doing things that I would never have dreamt of doing in the past within our community as well as other personal projects. I've never been happier in my career or in my marriage, but we aren't going to get rich doing it this way! I just hope that I can continue when/if reform hits.

Pain Medicine
The 3rd party insurers, lawyers, and our government have destroyed the practice of medicine in this country while the majority of us sat back and watched. I watched almost all of my colleagues get lured in by the HMO's back in the early 1990's only to have their reimbursement be chopped after a few years and have the HMO's control how they practice. We have watched insurance companies take over control of the medical care market . Most of us thoroughly enjoy the pure practicing of medicine, but this is not economically feasible in this country anymore for primary care physicians. The general public still views doctors as fat cats who make a lot of money, when in realty, you have to struggle to pay your overhead in all the primary care fields. As said in a previous note, everybody wants quality care, but few want to pay for it. When you go into medicine you give your life to the profession, and it is definitely not worth it as it takes a toll on your family, your health, and your enjoyment of life. Isn't it time to take back our profession from the insurance companies and government. As more and more physicians quit medicine, who does the government think is going to provide the medical care. I guess they will just do more outsourcing. The poliiticians don't care since they get excellent benefits. We, as tax payors get to pay their salary and their benefits. I left medicine in the end of 2003. I miss taking care of patients, but all the other crape was just not worth it. So what is the next step???

Psychiatry
Agree with cmorestuff. It's reality. It is the rude awakening of those who are a bit too altruistic that keep trying to maintain a standard of care, and are doing triple time to overcome the damage by all those whose priorities have changed from patient care to insurance sucking up. Look at the recent plethora of posts on the AMA thread the other week. I only speak for me, but I am very disheartened what has happened in the field of medicine. We are devolving ourselves into extinction as physicians. Soon healthcare providers will be almost anyone who can spell their name and find a niche schtick to hang up a shingle. Marcus Welby, MD, come back!

Agree though with others to keep your licensing, etc up to date and paid for. Take a time out (no, you don't have to sit on the step or go to your room). Did you have a job in the past or during college you could do part-time to just bring in some monies? There are also NON-CLINICAL physician jobs around. Hard to find the good ones, but they do exist. Just step a side for a while and catch your breath. Don't make any definitive decisions while you feel like this. You are also fortunate that there are many Sermoites who are not just sympathetic (too social workish), but empathetic (a higher ego function that doesn't get enmeshed like MSWs, etc..), or like Counselor Troi, no, she wasn't a doctor, she was only half Betazoid.

Hang in there kiddo, many of us are in your boat, we're just invisibile. If you hear mumbling, you are not hallucinating, it's just SERMOITES homing in on you to help you however they can!
 
Last edited:
About the Ads
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
Here is the reality. The journey from day 1 of gross anatomy to residency graduation will change you. Countless hours of sleep deprivation and studying on weekends will eat you up. All of the real reasons that you had deep inside will be exposed.

Medicine attracts the uber competitive grade obsessed anal types. However once you realize that working as hard as you can still leads to unfulfillment at the end if you went to medical school for the wrong reasons.

People that say they would rather have gun into dental school are openily admitting the reason they went to medical school was for money and lifestyle.

Medicine is a very tough life. The happiest physicians are the ones that love working with patients and making a difference. The unhappiest are the ones that chased money, lifestyle, prestige and/or respect but did not have the insight to know that about themselves as a pre med.

You can fool medicine ad coms, residency program directors, patients, and even your friends and family. The only one you cant lie to is yourself. It takes tremendous inght and maturity to truly go into medical school for the right reasons.

Even tougher is the fact there are many unhappy physicians that are unhappy and preach cynicism to anyone that will listen.

The truth is that the answer lies in yourself. If you accept the fact that you will not get rich as a physician, have less respect, little prestige BUT you are still helping patients you still have a chance to be a very happy and fulfilled physician. The key is to be true to yourself and pick a specialty out of sincere and real interest rather than chase a specialty for perceived money, lifestyle, respect etc.

Yeah you will owe 300K in debt. But if seeing a child smile and say thank you and appreciate you for your hard work I say being a pediatrician is worth more than money because it will give you professional fulfillment, meaning, and life purpose.

the key to success in medicine is to pick the best specialty based on your intangibles and following your heart.

300k debt and making 100 K a year is better than no debt and making 50K a year or making 400K with no job fulfillment, purpose or meaning.
 

peppy

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Nov 20, 2002
1,681
65
Status
Attending Physician
People that say they would rather have gun into dental school are openily admitting the reason they went to medical school was for money and lifestyle.
I think dentists make as much of a difference for their patients as docs do.
Working with patients who are poor or have psych issues, you will meet many people with painful, rotten teeth for whom a caring dentist could be a huge help.
I think one of the various reasons that I have become quite jaded about medicine is that the more I interact with other health professionals I realize that there are lots of ways to "help people" and "make a difference" that don't require the sacrifices, stress, and sometimes abuse that medical culture requires.
If you want to see patients smile, many patients will have more fond appreciation for the nurse who takes care of them than the doc they only saw for a few minutes because the doc was too busy rounding/answering pages/etc. to stick around to chit chat.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
It is not the smile that gives you fulfillment. a garbageman that cleans up a dirty room for apatient can make a patient smile.

It is knowing that you are in a career that requires you to make tremendous sacrifices and the knowledge you gained in medical school and residency helps patients.

Being a physician is about having acess to the best medical knowldege from head to toe and using this information to save peoples lives.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
Dentistry is a great field for pragmatists but they do not save peoples lives like Surgeons, ER physicians, and critical care physicians. Big difference.

Besides most people today would still pick medical school over dental school as an undergrad. Medical school gives you the best and most rigorous medical training from head to toe.

Being a physician is about knowledge. CRNAs will make more money, Physician assistants will have less paperwork, CRNAs will have better lifestyle, and dentists will have more days off BUT none of them will have the broad medical knowledge of a physician.

To each his own.

People that are physicians that hate it went into medical school for the wrong reasosn or did not have time to self reflect to pick the best medical specialty for them.

The point is that an MD degree opens more dorr than any other professional degree. You can even go into the nonclinical side like Dr. Joeseph Kim. Anyone that picks dental school over medical school needs to talk to a career counselor.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
Because an MD degree opens many more doors for career opportunties in and out of clinicl medicine.

Now if you were born to become a dentist go for it.

Life isnt about money it is about internal fulfillment and doing a carerr that gives you purpose and meaning.

Even if dentists make 1 million dollars a year I still wouldnt do it because I personally cant find myself having life meaning or purpose in that field.

Medicine will give you enough money to live a good life. It wont make you rich. Still it is a great career that has many many opportunties.
 

dukejen04

MS4
10+ Year Member
Jun 22, 2004
210
1
Status
Medical Student
Reading this thread as someone about to start my first year of med school terrifies me.

I'm 27 years old and staring at an uncertain future with 300K+ in debt. I'm kind of scared.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
Being scared is natural but once you start focusing on money the game is over. Even if you go to dental school you will money. In fact most dental schools have tuition that is higher than medical school. Plus, cosmetic dentistry is saturated in the high end markets.

You will pay off your debts. It is not like you will have to pay off by a certain age.

A career in medicine still offers you an opportunity to have a good life compared to other careers.

As I said before 100K a year with 300K debt is better than no debt with making 50K a year.

Dont go into medical school for the money. Go for an opportunity to learn and help people.

If you truly want to make money dont go into medical school or even dental school. Get an MBA at a top business school and go into investment banking or executive positions.

Debt will not kill you. It is what it is.

Shadow as many different physicians as a medical student to pick the best medical specialty based on your personality and temperament.

Medical school is still the best deal of all of the careeer options. the key is to realize that you dont have to pigeon hole yourself into one field and consider all your options.

No other graduate program offers as many diverse opportunities as going to Medical school. The number of different opportunties is unmatched.

One more thing stay awat from cynical physicians. Misery loves company.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
People that are miserable in medicine realize that they will not become rich as a physician. For the amount of work a person has to go to become a physician, a physician is severly underpaid. Especially the surgeons and ob/gyn physicians. Still money is dictated by supply and demand. Therefore no one owes you a certain amount of money. It is not fair that CRNAs make twice as much money as pediatrcians bt it is what it is. If money is the only criteria for you than become a CRNA. Just remember a CRNA will not have the knowledge base that you will acquire as a physician. Where are your true values. That is the question.

Grass is always greener. What matters is do something that you enjoy.

The movie Citizen Kane gives the best perspective about the meaning of life.
 

dukejen04

MS4
10+ Year Member
Jun 22, 2004
210
1
Status
Medical Student
Thanks BlueManGroup.
I've never been interested in money, or going into medicine for any reason that is remotely financially motivated. That's my concern, though, is that maybe I won't get to choose what I want to do, because I will have to think about how to pay all this money back.

I'm lucky in a sense that I've been out in the world, pursued professional sports, a Master's degree, and lived overseas for several years. I've had many opportunities to do other things, but medicine is the only thing I've ever been passionate about, and finally I'm getting a chance to pursue it. Reading stuff like this makes me worry that there is nothing to look forward to. I hope it isn't true.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
You keep focusing on the big pie of 300K.

Majority of physicians have debt and have always have debt. It comes with the territiry.

It is like paying money to skydive and going up on the plane and say you dont want to jump and want your money back. You wont get a refund. Similarly going to medical screquires 95% of us to take out debt. You made a decision to go to medical school so you have to deal with that. With that said if you go to business schoool or dentist school you will still have debt the variable doesnt change.

Going back to the big pie. Income based repayment means 15 to 20 percent of your paycheck will go toward your debt. You still have 80 to 85 percent to spend on house mortgage, car etc. Sure it might take you until 50 but who cares. as long as you become a physician that still take home 80 to 85 percent of your income.

Once again dont think about the debt once you committed to medicine i.e opaid to skydive. Let the lenders worry about that. Even aftewr monthly payments you will still make good money. Not great money or become rich but ultimatley you are the one that decided to become a physician so you can blame anyone else..

What you dont want to do is go into a specialty such as radiology solely for thr money because then you will hate every single day of your existence. Im not saying all radiologists are miserable just that it pays alot of money thus medical students enter it without trukly knowing the pros and cons of the field.

In conclusion, you will pay back you debt one day via monthly payments so dont focus on the whole 300K. You have to realize debt is a price to pay tocome a physician. It somes with the terrritory.

So why not pick a specialty that you truly enjoy.

Even with a family physician or pediatricians salary uo can pay back 300K in loans. Plus you can start saving for bretirement.
 

Southpaw

Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Aug 12, 2004
1,613
1,716
Status
Attending Physician
You keep focusing on the big pie of 300K.

Majority of physicians have debt and have always have debt. It comes with the territiry.

It is like paying money to skydive and going up on the plane and say you dont want to jump and want your money back. You wont get a refund. Similarly going to medical screquires 95% of us to take out debt. You made a decision to go to medical school so you have to deal with that. With that said if you go to business schoool or dentist school you will still have debt the variable doesnt change.

Going back to the big pie. Income based repayment means 15 to 20 percent of your paycheck will go toward your debt. You still have 80 to 85 percent to spend on house mortgage, car etc. Sure it might take you until 50 but who cares. as long as you become a physician that still take home 80 to 85 percent of your income.

Once again dont think about the debt once you committed to medicine i.e opaid to skydive. Let the lenders worry about that. Even aftewr monthly payments you will still make good money. Not great money or become rich but ultimatley you are the one that decided to become a physician so you can blame anyone else..

What you dont want to do is go into a specialty such as radiology solely for thr money because then you will hate every single day of your existence. Im not saying all radiologists are miserable just that it pays alot of money thus medical students enter it without trukly knowing the pros and cons of the field.

In conclusion, you will pay back you debt one day via monthly payments so dont focus on the whole 300K. You have to realize debt is a price to pay tocome a physician. It somes with the terrritory.

So why not pick a specialty that you truly enjoy.

Even with a family physician or pediatricians salary uo can pay back 300K in loans. Plus you can start saving for bretirement.
Dude you need to come clean about your background. Last I saw you were lying about the difficulties of being a radiologist, prior to being called out about looking into becoming a psychiatrist. Are you a med student? Much of your statement makes no sense whatsoever, from a financial or a career standpoint.
 

medicinesux

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Dec 20, 2007
534
12
Nonmedical Nirvana
Status
Attending Physician
Taurus, thanks for pointing out that thread from Sermo. As someone mentioned there already, that thread should be printed out and nailed to the front door of the White House.

Let the lenders worry about that.
Your joking right? When someone owes hundreds of thousands of dollars, it will be YOU and not the lender worrying about "that". While you spend countless nights at the hospital on call with blood shot eyes, your lenders will be sleeping comfortably in their beds knowing that they got you on the hook for an immense sum of money. Anyone who jumps into any field without considering money is asking for serious trouble down the road.
I also get a kick out of how you say that all physicians who are dissatisfied with medicine went into it for the "money" or the "prestige". YAWN....Like I've haven't heard that one before. It is the catch phrase of the day over on the pre-allo forums and making blanket statements like this makes you look like a naive premed (which I surmise you very well may be by looking at your puzzling post history). Post this on Sermo and see what kind of response you would get from actual attendings.
By the way, it is also kind of hard to take what you say with any seriousness when your posts are riddled with spelling errors. Just saying.
 
Last edited:
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
When you go into repayment plan you pay 15 to 20 percent of your net income for loan repayment. What part of that do you not understand.

No one has to pay 300K in a short period of time.

People keep focusing on the big total but the loans are paid off. Just put your student loans into automat6ic payment out of your checking acoount. Why worry about something that you cant control.

You went to medical school and now have debt live with it.

Less than 20 percent of your attending salary is not bad. It is not great nor will you grow rich but it is a good sallary.

Perhaps your expectations were too high and you are having buyers remorse.

If that is the case too bad. You dug yourself into this now deal with it.

Oweing 300K and making 100K is better than making 50K with no debt.

Debt will be eventually be paid off.

Feeling sorry for yourself will not bail you out of your situation.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
One last time. No loan repayment plan will take more than 20 percent of your check. And if you make your payments every month it will be paid off.

It is that simple.
 

medicinesux

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Dec 20, 2007
534
12
Nonmedical Nirvana
Status
Attending Physician
Oweing 300K and making 100K is better than making 50K with no debt.
I could spend a whole day ripping this statement apart! As I've said before, I would happily take a cush stress free enjoyable job that payed 50K with no debt affording me a balanced lifestyle anyday over a job that payed me 100K WITH 300K DEBT that worked me to my bare knuckles and continued to prematurely grey my hair! Heck, give me a bucket and I will gladly pick berries in the Greek Isles all day than be burdened with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and being a hospital slave. You can read more of my thoughts on this very topic here http://medicinesux.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/americans-in-major-debt/

And sure no one has to pay back their whopping 300K med school loans in one lump sum. Just ignore the total and drag it out over 20-30 years and pay back 2-3 times that!

Getting back to the O.P's question, I guess it would come to be no surprise that I would not do it again. Not only would I not do it again, but I will not keeping DOING IT a minute longer than I have to. I hope to be long gone before healthcare in this country finally implodes. When that day comes my ark will have already long set sail and those burdened with student loans, mortgages, and other things that weigh them down will have no choice but to stay and suck it. Sorry, but I've already inhaled that straw.
 
Dec 28, 2009
41
0
Status
Once again Sux you have no one to blame but yourself for your expectations in medicine.

You could have chosen Dermatology or even Psychiatry if you wanted an easier lifestyle.

As I mention again, it does not matter if the 300K balloons up to a higher amount. What matters is monthly payments on a day to day basis. Who cares if you repay 400K if the loan is repaid and you still have enough money in your monthly paycheck for housing, food, and other things that you need.

Lets cut to the chase. You are miserable and seek sympathy. By telling other people that medicine is a horrible career you forget the fact that not everyone is like you. There are some people that might pick a specialty that they like.

I am not contesting that physicians are severely underpaid for what we do. However, medicine is still a good gig for an undergrad. Dentistry, Law school, Grad school, and business schools do not have the upside of medical school because it offers the most number of doors to pursue. For example if you pick dentistry and you dont like it you are stuck.

I am sorry that you went to medical school. That doesnt mean that everyone else that goes to medical school will have your same sentiments.

Once again the loan amount that matters is the monthly payments. you will have money keft over for a mortgsge payment, food, car payment, and retirement. It will not be an extravagant lifestyle but if that is what you wanted I can see why you are so dissapointed.

Physicians are extremely underpaid and work harder than most other professions but there is nothing you can do except complain about it. That is why the happiest physicians are the ones that like to help patients. Dont go to medical school to become rich.
 
Apr 24, 2009
28
0
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Once again Sux you have no one to blame but yourself for your expectations in medicine.

You could have chosen Dermatology or even Psychiatry if you wanted an easier lifestyle.

As I mention again, it does not matter if the 300K balloons up to a higher amount. What matters is monthly payments on a day to day basis. Who cares if you repay 400K if the loan is repaid and you still have enough money in your monthly paycheck for housing, food, and other things that you need.

Lets cut to the chase. You are miserable and seek sympathy. By telling other people that medicine is a horrible career you forget the fact that not everyone is like you. There are some people that might pick a specialty that they like.

I am not contesting that physicians are severely underpaid for what we do. However, medicine is still a good gig for an undergrad. Dentistry, Law school, Grad school, and business schools do not have the upside of medical school because it offers the most number of doors to pursue. For example if you pick dentistry and you dont like it you are stuck.

I am sorry that you went to medical school. That doesnt mean that everyone else that goes to medical school will have your same sentiments.

Once again the loan amount that matters is the monthly payments. you will have money keft over for a mortgsge payment, food, car payment, and retirement. It will not be an extravagant lifestyle but if that is what you wanted I can see why you are so dissapointed.

Physicians are extremely underpaid and work harder than most other professions but there is nothing you can do except complain about it. That is why the happiest physicians are the ones that like to help patients. Dont go to medical school to become rich.
Just curious have you actually gone through med school and endured all that debt?
 
About the Ads