If you were an Adcom member....

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JESSFALLING

JESSFALLING

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Who would you pick, & why - please rank from top to least:

1. Biology Major, Chemistry Minor
3.65 cGPA, 3.65 sGPA, MCAT 31O (11PS, 10BS, 10VR)

ECs - 2 years laboratory research, but no published papers; 100hrs volunteering at hospital, 1 good LOR from local (unknown) MD; VP of Pre-med Club

2. Psychology Major (Honors), Biology Minor
3.70 cGPA, 3.60 sGPA, MCAT 30P (10PS, 11BS, 9VR)

ECs - 3 years of undergrad psychology research, 1 publication in psych journal; 200hrs volunteering at hospital, 1 good LOR from local (unknown) MD; VP of Pre-med Club; Wrote

Senior Thesis - "Psychology of health and wellness in low income households"

3. Religious Studies Major (Honors), Nutrition Minor
3.7 cGPA, 3.65 sGPA, MCAT 32R (11PS, 10BS, 11VR)

ECs - No research; 250hrs volunteering at hospital, 2 great LORs from MDs (1 internationally known); President of Pre-med Club; Did medical "missions" with church over one summer.

Senior Thesis - "Dying, Death, and Ethics in Modern Medicine"


Thanks!
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#2. Was pretty much Me minus the pre-med club business. Didn't get rejected anywhere I interviewed.
 
I think 2 (with the pub) would stand out in terms of the research category.
 
Wow...definitely number 2. the applicant knocked it outta the park in terms of the research enterprise, not to mention I love research. There are little disparities in their overall stats...hmm, but I cannot help thinking that certain adcoms would gush at him/her getting an LOR from "Dr. Phil"...
 
This is what LizzyM said once:

.Having a publication accepted for publication or published is a +4 at one top tier school. Having been funded for a project is a +3, having done a summer program or a couple of semesters is a +2, and having been a research assistant is a +1. (You get categorized into one of these groups or 0 for "no research")..
.Impact factor is not taken into account. Position in the list of authors (particularly second rather than first) is not taken into account..

..
.
Click to expand...

.
 
I would invite all three for an interview and determine which had the right attitude and personality.
 
WAIT!! But what if you did some unpublished research for 2 years and did a research program during the summer (in which you were published). Would that be a plus 3...
 
None.

They are all involved with a "premed" club. That's a BS club. Just send all pre-meds to SDN for info about applying to medical school, and actually get involved with clubs that improve your school and the surrounding community.
(and no - i don't care how much you volunteered elsewhere. Leadership in lame club just... makes you sound lame when I could find someone else with better ECs and pretty much the same resumes) :p:p
 
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Defintely the psych major (#2). The EC's are great and adcom members love psych majors for some reason (I was one).
 
I'd pick #3 even though I'm a devout atheist. Seems like they're unique, and they can still run with the science crowd in terms of MCAT and sGPA. Their ECs also seem true to who they are.

Maybe I'd make a **** adcom :laugh:
 
#2 is clearly the least literate of the 3 applicants, given that 9 in VR.

ESL, or reject.
 
Avoidthetiger said:
None.

They are all involved with a "premed" club. That's a BS club. Just send all pre-meds to SDN for info about applying to medical school, and actually get involved with clubs that improve your school and the surrounding community.
(and no - i don't care how much you volunteered elsewhere. Leadership in lame club just... makes you sound lame when I could find someone else with better ECs and pretty much the same resumes) :p:p
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

I used to wish that pre-med clubs didn't exist because they're so pointless. Then I realized that they actually provide a huge service by attracting neurotic pre-meds who will join anything that has somewhat of an applicability to medicine
 
phnerd1105 said:
:thumbup:

I used to wish that pre-med clubs didn't exist because they're so pointless. Then I realized that they actually provide a huge service by attracting neurotic pre-meds who will join anything that has somewhat of an applicability to medicine
Click to expand...
I thought about joining one, but then they told me I had to pay money. I said f-that and actually joined clubs that were interesting. :laugh:
 
JESSFALLING said:
Who would you pick, & why - please rank from top to least:

1. Biology Major, Chemistry Minor
3.65 cGPA, 3.65 sGPA, MCAT 31O (11PS, 10BS, 10VR)

ECs - 2 years laboratory research, but no published papers; 100hrs volunteering at hospital, 1 good LOR from local (unknown) MD; VP of Pre-med Club

2. Psychology Major (Honors), Biology Minor
3.70 cGPA, 3.60 sGPA, MCAT 30P (10PS, 11BS, 9VR)

ECs - 3 years of undergrad psychology research, 1 publication in psych journal; 200hrs volunteering at hospital, 1 good LOR from local (unknown) MD; VP of Pre-med Club; Wrote

Senior Thesis - "Psychology of health and wellness in low income households"

3. Religious Studies Major (Honors), Nutrition Minor
3.7 cGPA, 3.65 sGPA, MCAT 32R (11PS, 10BS, 11VR)

ECs - No research; 250hrs volunteering at hospital, 2 great LORs from MDs (1 internationally known); President of Pre-med Club; Did medical "missions" with church over one summer.

Senior Thesis - "Dying, Death, and Ethics in Modern Medicine"

Thanks!
Click to expand...

#3 goes first... here's why... Religious Studies Major, means dealing with complicated texts, and interpreting vast amounts of information. Writing a lot of essays etc. This person knows how to assimilate information and their VR score reflects this. Anyone can be a doctor in a classroom. It's not that hard to teach someone anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology. Guess what friends...

I quote from a world reknowned NIH scientist, who was on my review committee for a nature biotech paper I just got published....

"If science and medicine were by the book, we would have computers to diagnose everything. That new-fangled Watson thing from Jeopardy is the future of medicine, but not without human ingenuity and prowess. Sure, computers are great, but you still need to be able to synthesize, interpret and relay information."

Most biology majors don't realize that the fundamental skill they're lacking is critical thinking OUTSIDE YOUR comfort zone. (Why does MAP = CO X TPR?)

From what I have garnered, adcoms are after people with substance. If science is all you know, and you've got a balling MCAT score and GPA to boot, sure you'll get in somewhere. But chances are, your classmates will have world experience, and have opinions on current events and issues.

I'm going to sound all too preachy right now. But I can't stand people complaining about VR and how stupid it is. The following is copied and pasted from http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/selection_process_questions.html

This Canadian school recently started accepting the MCAT, and ONLY the verbal reasoning. Might I add, that this skill is the birthplace of PBL, and the multiple mini interview?

McMaster introduced the MCAT Verbal Reasoning beginning the 2009/10 application cycle.

Q. Why the MCAT Verbal Reasoning? The Undergraduate Medical Program continually seeks ways to improve the admissions process, using an evidence-based approach to choose those tools that better predict for the future clinical skills and professionalism of its students. Emerging data has demonstrated that the Multiple Mini-Interview (MMI) and the Verbal Reasoning portion of the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) are the two best predictors of future success five years later on the Medical Council of Canada Qualifying Examination Part II (MCCQE Part II).

For those that don't know. The MCCQE Part II is the equivalent of USMLE Step III. I've seen the statistics, they're astronomical. Now, the difference between a 9 and a 10? Not much, however, the adcoms I've spoken to have said the following in general.

"Well, lets just say I have someone with a 37 composite (PS-15, VR-7, BS-15), and then I have someone with a (34 composite PS-11, VR- 12, BS-11). The person with the 37 shows serious aptitude for the sciences. However, they have a 7 in VR, something you can't study for. You can study for a potential aortic dissection, but you can't study for every single complication that might happen. Pretty soon, you're going to be making judgment calls because your labs are off by 0.05%, and starting a new medication when you very well know that you should stay on the current course of treatment. By no means is someone with a 9 going to get rejected flat out, or even an 8. But at around 7, we start to question whether you're able to cut it under pressure"

Anyways, off that tangent now...

My next up would be Candidate number 1, and then candidate number 2.
 
Avoidthetiger said:
I thought about joining one, but then they told me I had to pay money. I said f-that and actually joined clubs that were interesting. :laugh:
Click to expand...

lol for me it was that and the fact that all the gunner Indian kids were joining it, so I wanted to stay farrrr away.
 
Post a picture of each applicant and I'll tell you which one I really like best. :D
 
sector9 said:
I thought about joining for the cool Premed club t-shirt so that I could wear it once a week and everyone would know that I'm premed:laugh:
Click to expand...
but why would you want people to know your pre-med. People hate pre-meds. Even I hate pre-meds, and I am pre-med.

I hate myself.
 
Whatyousay said:
#2 is clearly the least literate of the 3 applicants, given that 9 in VR.

ESL, or reject.
Click to expand...

Actually, some schools translate a high VR score to a better success rate in med school. If that's the case, #3 wins...
 
Avoidthetiger said:
but why would you want people to know your pre-med. People hate pre-meds. Even I hate pre-meds, and I am pre-med.

I hate myself.
Click to expand...

Truth. I actually despise most pre-meds. Thank god I'm a grad student now :thumbup:
 
Avoidthetiger said:
but why would you want people to know your pre-med. People hate pre-meds. Even I hate pre-meds, and I am pre-med.

I hate myself.
Click to expand...

phnerd1105 said:
Truth. I actually despise most pre-meds. Thank god I'm a grad student now :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, I was trying to be sarcastic, but I guess the smilie didn't convey that
 
A lot of people are choosing #3.Is it because he/she picked an obscure major?
 
I would want to interview #2 and #3 much moreso than #1. They seem much more interesting and I'd like to talk to them about their theses and publication (#2) or medical mission (#3). I'd decide who to accept based on that.
 
Geekchick921 said:
I would want to interview #2 and #3 much moreso than #1. They seem much more interesting and I'd like to talk to them about their theses and publication (#2) or medical mission (#3). I'd decide who to accept based on that.
Click to expand...

I do see what you mean. Because they majored outside of the sciences, they have a little more to offer, whereas, the first applicant comes off as "cookie-cutter". I am really starting to get the picture...:nod:
 
Neither until they get more LORs. :cool:

I'd probably go 3, 2, 1 though judging from the information you gave me, although your extracurriculars on the whole are weak. This is definitely a contest with your friends if 3 is president, and 2 and 1 are vice-president of the "pre-med club." Pre-med club is terrible and shouldn't be an extracurricular.
 
Well none of them cured cancer or defeated hunger in Africa, sooo....
 
LOL Vice presidents of the SDN club, so it takes 2 of you to look up your member's questions on SDN and report back to them with your findings?
 
what a ridiculous exercise, none of us are adcoms and thus our opinions have little to no relevance on this very strangely specific set of applicants
 
LizzyM said:
LizzyM scores less than 70 don't gain much traction at top 20 schools.
Click to expand...

BAM! Applicant 3 is now a URM who grew up in a single parent household below poverty level. Now what happens?
 
I've got >100 URM with research experience and stats that good or better. Rather hard to believe that a URM coming from poverty would major in religious studies -- not very marketable -- poor kids usually do something marketable so that they can get a job. That's the problem with these made-up cases; they don't ring true.
 
Avoidthetiger said:
None.

They are all involved with a "premed" club. That's a BS club. Just send all pre-meds to SDN for info about applying to medical school, and actually get involved with clubs that improve your school and the surrounding community.
(and no - i don't care how much you volunteered elsewhere. Leadership in lame club just... makes you sound lame when I could find someone else with better ECs and pretty much the same resumes) :p:p
Click to expand...

Please don't generalize... There are a ton of BS clubs out there. The pre-med club I was a part of had a rather rigid format: meetings once a week every week with the speaker being either a medical professional, a volunteer coordinator for a hospital/hospice, someone to give information about the process of applying (a current med student or resident), or a med school rep. Every week, and I mean every week, we had some kind of event that was either categorized as social, service, or medical. Events like these included a trip to the anatomy lab to look at prosections, a trip to an nba game where the team physician gave his speal on what he does and how he got there, bimonthly events to the local Ronald McDonald house for whatever they needed, helping renovate/rebuild/clean a local elementary school, participating in habitat for humanity, given a tour at a neurological institute, given a suture clinic, held monthly classes for a high-tech lab with med mannequins and surgery practice sims, given a CPR course, etc... All in one semester.

It's not about the club or the activity you were in, it's what you did. I hate it when people say I've done 100+ hours of volunteering at the hospital and then I ask them what they did... 50 hours doing gift shop duties and 50 hours sitting behind the desk. Real nice...

Shouldn't be dismissing or accepting anything off someone's app until you find out the details.
 
CapnCrunch said:
Please don't generalize... There are a ton of BS clubs out there. The pre-med club I was a part of had a rather rigid format: meetings once a week every week with the speaker being either a medical professional, a volunteer coordinator for a hospital/hospice, someone to give information about the process of applying (a current med student or resident), or a med school rep. Every week, and I mean every week, we had some kind of event that was either categorized as social, service, or medical. Events like these included a trip to the anatomy lab to look at prosections, a trip to an nba game where the team physician gave his speal on what he does and how he got there, bimonthly events to the local Ronald McDonald house for whatever they needed, helping renovate/rebuild/clean a local elementary school, participating in habitat for humanity, given a tour at a neurological institute, given a suture clinic, held monthly classes for a high-tech lab with med mannequins and surgery practice sims, given a CPR course, etc... All in one semester.

It's not about the club or the activity you were in, it's what you did. I hate it when people say I've done 100+ hours of volunteering at the hospital and then I ask them what they did... 50 hours doing gift shop duties and 50 hours sitting behind the desk. Real nice...

Shouldn't be dismissing or accepting anything off someone's app until you find out the details.
Click to expand...

While your argument is correct, there's a reason for the stereotype. Most pre-meds join pre-med clubs, regardless of their routines, because they think they will get into med school with it on their resume. Most applicants just have down that they are a member, and don't really attend many of the activities. That's the reason why we were highlighting it as pretty much worthless. It's such a commonplace activity that it really adds nothing to your application (unless you are highly involved) even though most applicants think it will.
 
phnerd1105 said:
While your argument is correct, there's a reason for the stereotype. Most pre-meds join pre-med clubs, regardless of their routines, because they think they will get into med school with it on their resume. Most applicants just have down that they are a member, and don't really attend many of the activities. That's the reason why we were highlighting it as pretty much worthless. It's such a commonplace activity that it really adds nothing to your application (unless you are highly involved) even though most applicants think it will.
Click to expand...

If any pre-med club did their job, then it's obvious to realize that being part of a pre-med club is not on the list of activities of a typical matriculant or that's valuable. What's valuable is learning what is a typical matriculant, what is expected of you as an applicant, what you should be doing and when you should be doing it, etc... If any pre-med club advertises this anything otherwise, then shame on them. Of any activity I've done so far, they've all said the same thing. "Don't think this is all you need to get into medical school :laugh:". Yes, laughing face included.
 
LizzyM said:
I've got >100 URM with research experience and stats that good or better. Rather hard to believe that a URM coming from poverty would major in religious studies -- not very marketable -- poor kids usually do something marketable so that they can get a job. That's the problem with these made-up cases; they don't ring true.
Click to expand...
haha. My BFF is a "poor kid". I'm going to go giggle at her for getting a degree in English.

CapnCrunch said:
It's not about the club or the activity you were in, it's what you did. I hate it when people say I've done 100+ hours of volunteering at the hospital and then I ask them what they did... 50 hours doing gift shop duties and 50 hours sitting behind the desk. Real nice...
Click to expand...
I was kidding above -- i do believe looking at the overall app is important. But this isnt an actually application. It's a redic scenario where the OP is competing with his 2 friends.

But for the most part i still think premed clubs are useless. The AMSA one at my school charged alot of money and did a 1/4 of what yours did. And honestly, I'd rather be in a community-involved club, rather then a "let's learn about medicine AND improve our application by doing "service/leadership" club". I guess my issue is that nothing pre-med clubs do for the community rings true to me... it just seems like a bunch of kids trying to get a better application. Now if you do indeed go volunteer at Ronald House 2x a month, that's something, but if you go sporadically with your "club" that just... feels forced.
 
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