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Does the IHS do any programs themselves for loan repayment or scholarships, or do they rely on the nhsc only?
Ihs
- Thread starter smrtmom1
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I haven't applied for IHS loan repayment but I have heard that it is possible to negotiate with individual agencies for loan repayment. I would strongly recommend against applying for the NHSC if you have any particular interests in where you would like (or not) to work.
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Thank you. But I already applied for the nhsc last year (didn't get it), and I applied this year (still waiting to hear). I really don't care where I go, as long as I know I am going where I am needed. Besides, the PA list is pretty large every year, so I figure I have at least a fighting chance at a few of my first choices. (Alaska, Minnesota, North/South Dakota)
I was just curious if the was similar programs with IHS or if they just relyed on the hsc. Thank you again, though.
I was just curious if the was similar programs with IHS or if they just relyed on the hsc. Thank you again, though.
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I believe that you can join the commissioned corps and elect to work for the IHS. From what one of the reps told me in an email, you apply to the commissioned corps <www.usphs.gov> and to the agency you wish to work with/for (theres a list on the website). After acceptance and graduation you are commissioned and go to your duty station. The only trouble is that only some of the IHS duty stations offer a loan repayment. I believe that there is a list on the IHS website.
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Hi:
I am a pediatrician with the IHS. I am attached to Chinle Comprehensive Health Care Facility in the middle of the Navajo Nation. I have just completed my third year of practice with the IHS/PHS/DHHS.
Here is some quick info regarding questions that were posted:
1. As a physician you can be employed permanently with the IHS either as a commissioned corps officer (COs) with the PHS or as a Government Service Employee (GSs). The difference has to do with your personal career planning. COs many times find their way into the IHS via the National Health Service Corp Scholar Program, though commissioning is optional via that program. In that situation you will be an officer in the Public Health Service and receive military ranks equivalent to the US Navy's structure.
GSs are hired as under the civil service GS paygrades. There is no particular obligation in this system, unless you have a loan repayment package, which standardly requires 2 years of payback, but can be extended to a three or four year agreement, depending on how much debt you want repayed. The IHS homepage (www.ihs.gov) has an easily searched page with good reviews of the various programs, LRPs, and career paths available.
2. Most loan repayment (LRP) for non-COs is handled at the national level at this time, although IHS headquarters issued a directive in 2005 recommending such obligation be taken over by the individual service units (read: hospital or clinic). Though I did not enter under a loan repayment agreement (that's right, I came out here just for the fun of it!) I was offered loan repayment by my service unit as a retention incentive at the end of my second year here. That means about $18K repayment each fiscal year for two years with a year-for-year time obligation. The total payment is more like $22 - 24K, the remainder meant to defray taxes on the LRP. That is very helpful. That brings my total compensation to about $175K/yr with malpractice covered by the IHS. It is fairly good compensation for the kind of work you do. I work somewhere around 50 hours/wk.
3. COs are usually career path in the PHS. The true monetary return comes if you can put in at least 20 years as this will activate a guaranteed retirement (pension) pay equal to 50% of your base pay per annum for the rest of your life. 30 years gets you 75% of base pay for the rest of your life. You also receive full military benefits such as access to military bases and the associated retail operations on said bases. With this path you need to expect:
a. Some military indoctrination as you are technically a uniformed service officer. This means officer training school and you are answerable to the military heirarchy.
b. Your promotions are based on a combination of timed served and performance reports. They are also dependent on your willingness to accept posts (sites of employment) as offered/recommended by your detailer at headquarters. This is not dissimilar to the civilain world when you translate the true meaning: sometimes you will have to do jobs in places that you don't love. The terms of rotation usually tend to be about 2 - 5 years depending on the assignment. Failure to meet performance expectations (that includes accepting some of the tougher assignments) results in an early ceiling on promotions and thus a lower retirement annunity because of lower base pay.
c. Under new initiatives you can expect to be deployed for most national disasters. Additionally, CO physicians and other CO medical staff can be called up for military deployment in international areas of conflict. This has been largely voluntary until now, but the wording is very clear that it can be issued as an order to any CO to deploy. This may be a sticking point for some considering this path given the recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the upside, you would have been some of the first providers on the ground (water?) with Katrina.
d. You have to wear a uniform at least few times a week. Some people love it and other hate it. You follow the US Navy's uniform code.
e. The initial financial compensation for COs is lower than GSs, but the retirement is much better. GSs have access to a federally sponsored retirment fund (called the thrift savings plan) that works largely like a 401k employer matching fund, but otherwise you control your retirement plan. COs get the aforementioned retirement plan AND have access to the thrift savings plan AND anything else they invest in. This means your pay-off is more retirment loaded. Then again, if you don't make at least 20 years, you don't get the pension. Again, the pay off requires commitment.
4. At current time it is much easier for dentists to get LRP nationally than MDs. The demand for dentists is ridiculous. Our service unit needs at least 4 more dentists to meet current patient volume. It is safe to say that dentists are in critical demand. This means you can negotiate for better GS packages that can include LRP, signing bonuses, and earlier pay raises. Not only that, you will never get to see the level of dental pathology you will see in the IHS. Navajo area and Lakota territory have the dubious distinction of having the worst dental health in the US. If you're looking for a very full scope of practice as a dentist, IHS might be the answer!
I hope this helps with some of the details. Don't hesitate to drop a line if there is anything else that would aid in researching IHS options.
Chinledoc
I am a pediatrician with the IHS. I am attached to Chinle Comprehensive Health Care Facility in the middle of the Navajo Nation. I have just completed my third year of practice with the IHS/PHS/DHHS.
Here is some quick info regarding questions that were posted:
1. As a physician you can be employed permanently with the IHS either as a commissioned corps officer (COs) with the PHS or as a Government Service Employee (GSs). The difference has to do with your personal career planning. COs many times find their way into the IHS via the National Health Service Corp Scholar Program, though commissioning is optional via that program. In that situation you will be an officer in the Public Health Service and receive military ranks equivalent to the US Navy's structure.
GSs are hired as under the civil service GS paygrades. There is no particular obligation in this system, unless you have a loan repayment package, which standardly requires 2 years of payback, but can be extended to a three or four year agreement, depending on how much debt you want repayed. The IHS homepage (www.ihs.gov) has an easily searched page with good reviews of the various programs, LRPs, and career paths available.
2. Most loan repayment (LRP) for non-COs is handled at the national level at this time, although IHS headquarters issued a directive in 2005 recommending such obligation be taken over by the individual service units (read: hospital or clinic). Though I did not enter under a loan repayment agreement (that's right, I came out here just for the fun of it!) I was offered loan repayment by my service unit as a retention incentive at the end of my second year here. That means about $18K repayment each fiscal year for two years with a year-for-year time obligation. The total payment is more like $22 - 24K, the remainder meant to defray taxes on the LRP. That is very helpful. That brings my total compensation to about $175K/yr with malpractice covered by the IHS. It is fairly good compensation for the kind of work you do. I work somewhere around 50 hours/wk.
3. COs are usually career path in the PHS. The true monetary return comes if you can put in at least 20 years as this will activate a guaranteed retirement (pension) pay equal to 50% of your base pay per annum for the rest of your life. 30 years gets you 75% of base pay for the rest of your life. You also receive full military benefits such as access to military bases and the associated retail operations on said bases. With this path you need to expect:
a. Some military indoctrination as you are technically a uniformed service officer. This means officer training school and you are answerable to the military heirarchy.
b. Your promotions are based on a combination of timed served and performance reports. They are also dependent on your willingness to accept posts (sites of employment) as offered/recommended by your detailer at headquarters. This is not dissimilar to the civilain world when you translate the true meaning: sometimes you will have to do jobs in places that you don't love. The terms of rotation usually tend to be about 2 - 5 years depending on the assignment. Failure to meet performance expectations (that includes accepting some of the tougher assignments) results in an early ceiling on promotions and thus a lower retirement annunity because of lower base pay.
c. Under new initiatives you can expect to be deployed for most national disasters. Additionally, CO physicians and other CO medical staff can be called up for military deployment in international areas of conflict. This has been largely voluntary until now, but the wording is very clear that it can be issued as an order to any CO to deploy. This may be a sticking point for some considering this path given the recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the upside, you would have been some of the first providers on the ground (water?) with Katrina.
d. You have to wear a uniform at least few times a week. Some people love it and other hate it. You follow the US Navy's uniform code.
e. The initial financial compensation for COs is lower than GSs, but the retirement is much better. GSs have access to a federally sponsored retirment fund (called the thrift savings plan) that works largely like a 401k employer matching fund, but otherwise you control your retirement plan. COs get the aforementioned retirement plan AND have access to the thrift savings plan AND anything else they invest in. This means your pay-off is more retirment loaded. Then again, if you don't make at least 20 years, you don't get the pension. Again, the pay off requires commitment.
4. At current time it is much easier for dentists to get LRP nationally than MDs. The demand for dentists is ridiculous. Our service unit needs at least 4 more dentists to meet current patient volume. It is safe to say that dentists are in critical demand. This means you can negotiate for better GS packages that can include LRP, signing bonuses, and earlier pay raises. Not only that, you will never get to see the level of dental pathology you will see in the IHS. Navajo area and Lakota territory have the dubious distinction of having the worst dental health in the US. If you're looking for a very full scope of practice as a dentist, IHS might be the answer!
I hope this helps with some of the details. Don't hesitate to drop a line if there is anything else that would aid in researching IHS options.
Chinledoc
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chinledoc, what an excellent post!
I would like to add under 3e, that GS does have a retirement plan if you work at least five years- it's the number of years in percent times your average highest three in salary. So say you work 10 years, your average highest three years is 150,000 then your pension is 15,000. Even if you move on to a different job after 10 yrs you still get it.
Work 30 years, say your average highest 3 is 175,000 then you wind up with 52,000 a year- not bad.
Also, with GS you get a match with the TSP (govt equivalent of 401K) of 5% of your salary; as a CO you don't get this match, although you can contribute more to the TSP.
Definitely learned some things about CO from your post- I'm sticking with GS for now because of the higher pay and career flexibility.
I would like to add under 3e, that GS does have a retirement plan if you work at least five years- it's the number of years in percent times your average highest three in salary. So say you work 10 years, your average highest three years is 150,000 then your pension is 15,000. Even if you move on to a different job after 10 yrs you still get it.
Work 30 years, say your average highest 3 is 175,000 then you wind up with 52,000 a year- not bad.
Also, with GS you get a match with the TSP (govt equivalent of 401K) of 5% of your salary; as a CO you don't get this match, although you can contribute more to the TSP.
Definitely learned some things about CO from your post- I'm sticking with GS for now because of the higher pay and career flexibility.
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Thanks for the informative post, chinledoc. I was just in Chinle this past summer. Nice area, good sites.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is after up to 5 years of civilian service I can apply for commisioned corps and still have the 5 years of civilian credited towards the 20 needed as a CO officer for retirement.
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This is incorrect. The only time that can be counted towards PHS (CO) retirement is PHS or military time.
Retirement options PHS/GS (FERS)/Military summarized below:
-you can retire from the PHS/military after 20 years of combined PHS/military time and immediately start receiving ~pension checks (at roughly half of what your base pay was in your last year), regardless of your age at PHS/military retirement time
-you can do less than 20 years in the PHS/military, get out, then apply this towards a GS (FERS) retirement/pension plan
-you can retire from the PHS/military then take a GS job and ultimately receive a FERS retirement IN ADDITION to your PHS/military retirement (known as double-dipping)
-FERS has a separate minimum retirement age from the military that can be somewhat complicated
At the same time, one has to wonder what federal retirement will look like in 20-30 years with an ever-weakening economy.
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I was also searching answer for the same question, want to see more.
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So, Chinle doc.
I am trying to find info on docs in federal service and what I can negotiate into my contract.
Do you get the physician's comparability allowance? Do I have to ask for that in my contract? or would I just get it. I know the other doc who I will work right alongside has it, do I have to ask for it?
Can someone as a recruiting incentive get the student loan repayment into their contract right off the street or do I have to put several years in?
Did they pay for your relocation expenses?
I read on some gs level forum about trying to negotiate greater hours of vacation. I am in residency now trying to negotiate a contract and I read that two weeks/year is earned for vacation for government service. I'm in residency and I get three now. I would expect 4 weeks at least. Have you heard of vacation being negotiable?
last question, is your GS position moving toward the new NSPS system? If so, is that good or bad?
I am trying to find info on docs in federal service and what I can negotiate into my contract.
Do you get the physician's comparability allowance? Do I have to ask for that in my contract? or would I just get it. I know the other doc who I will work right alongside has it, do I have to ask for it?
Can someone as a recruiting incentive get the student loan repayment into their contract right off the street or do I have to put several years in?
Did they pay for your relocation expenses?
I read on some gs level forum about trying to negotiate greater hours of vacation. I am in residency now trying to negotiate a contract and I read that two weeks/year is earned for vacation for government service. I'm in residency and I get three now. I would expect 4 weeks at least. Have you heard of vacation being negotiable?
last question, is your GS position moving toward the new NSPS system? If so, is that good or bad?
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to dre dre: I checked a brochure I have and you can indeed count 5 years of civilian service towards retirement, I seriously doubt that you as a pre- med student know more than I do as a medical officer.
to boopiness: please PM me. Your salary will be GS 13, 14, or 15, likely with a PCA (Physicians compatability allowance) that varies based on whether one year or two year, board certified, and whether you've served two years with fed govt. (I can PM you exact numbers). Then you may get a recruitment or recentive bonus, which can be up to 25% of base pay. Unless your field is title 38 (based on market pay), our director is trying to move our department to title 38.
Yes, you can get student repayment but this may affect your bonuses. They paid for my moving, but be sure to get it approved in advance (keep on emailing them until they give you the right person's name). don't expect a fortune from this though.
Vacation is 13 days years 1-3, 20 days until year 15, then 26 days after year 15. I also get 5 days of CME leave. Probably not negotiable. In general, my contract was not that negotiable, but I did get a sweet raise after my first year with federal service.
to boopiness: please PM me. Your salary will be GS 13, 14, or 15, likely with a PCA (Physicians compatability allowance) that varies based on whether one year or two year, board certified, and whether you've served two years with fed govt. (I can PM you exact numbers). Then you may get a recruitment or recentive bonus, which can be up to 25% of base pay. Unless your field is title 38 (based on market pay), our director is trying to move our department to title 38.
Yes, you can get student repayment but this may affect your bonuses. They paid for my moving, but be sure to get it approved in advance (keep on emailing them until they give you the right person's name). don't expect a fortune from this though.
Vacation is 13 days years 1-3, 20 days until year 15, then 26 days after year 15. I also get 5 days of CME leave. Probably not negotiable. In general, my contract was not that negotiable, but I did get a sweet raise after my first year with federal service.
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My understanding was that while there are several states w/ pension plans in trouble, the fed pensions are sitting much better, partly b/c they are larger but also b/c they have already made major changes to the way their pensions are managed and the eligibility (my mom is in the USPS, for example, and their new hires have much less available to them compared to what she had 20+ yrs ago). I would feel more secure w/ them than w/ almost any other retirement plan, but then that isn't really saying much, is it 
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To be specific, 5 years of PHS civil service may be counted towards subsequent Commissioned Officer time for PHS retirement. So for all none of you whom this has caused confusion, my apologies.
I don't know what brochure you're referencing but I am referencing the regulation covering this subject: CCPM23.8 Section D.
By the way, I'm a PGY-4. And a veteran. I hope you practice medicine with more evidence than you bring forth in your online postings.
The answer to your question is yes the IHS does have a loan repayment it is about $25000 a year after taxes about 18000. It is a year fir year. You must apply. Also the earklier you apply the more likly to get your money the first try. To apply you need the letter offering a job, not that you have started work.
