How terrible is the online ILE option, honestly? What is the enrollment process? Is it selective, or can I, the most lackluster field grade in the Army, enroll myself?
Army ILE- Distance option
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Pretty terrible IMO. The amount of work required (modules that you have to be engaged in to answer questions at the end, research papers, etc.) is pretty significant. Most people I know who completed it did so on deployment when there was nothing else to do. Completing it while maintaining a clinical practice at an MTF can be done but it requires 2-3 nights per week where you stay at work until 2100 to complete things, multiple Saturdays/Sundays/Holidays spent in the office or library, and days before an assignment is due where clinical work is pushed off on friends within the department in order to knock out a paper.
Enrollment process is outlined here. https://partis.leavenworth.army.mil/cgsc/DDE/StudentOps/SitePages/enroll.aspx
It's not selective like in-residence ILE. It just requires a military record free of serious blemishes. You can enroll yourself with a little help from your unit training officer or HRC (they have to make a reservation for you in ATTRS).
Enrollment process is outlined here. https://partis.leavenworth.army.mil/cgsc/DDE/StudentOps/SitePages/enroll.aspx
It's not selective like in-residence ILE. It just requires a military record free of serious blemishes. You can enroll yourself with a little help from your unit training officer or HRC (they have to make a reservation for you in ATTRS).
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But: think about how much better of a physician you'll be after.
FortunateSon
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I'll echo what Ziehl-Neelsen said: ILE is pretty rough any way you cut it. The workload of reading/assignments/papers is significant.
I would suggest considering the TASS version rather than DL if you can. There are more homework assignments for the DL version to make up for the time you didn't spend in class for a weekend every month, and all the DL work is done individually - even for assignments that otherwise would have been group-work in TASS. Additionally, your classmates in the TASS version will come from all different branches, which is a pretty huge advantage. It definitely helps when you have people sitting next to you that have worked as a 3, in acquisitions, in logistics, etc. Plus, if you can go TDY to Phase 1 and 3, those 2 weeks are pretty well protected from other obligations. (Tip: Go to McCoy).
When I went through, we all did everything we could not to miss the weekends in phase 2 - because that meant having to do the extra DL assignments.
Good luck!
I would suggest considering the TASS version rather than DL if you can. There are more homework assignments for the DL version to make up for the time you didn't spend in class for a weekend every month, and all the DL work is done individually - even for assignments that otherwise would have been group-work in TASS. Additionally, your classmates in the TASS version will come from all different branches, which is a pretty huge advantage. It definitely helps when you have people sitting next to you that have worked as a 3, in acquisitions, in logistics, etc. Plus, if you can go TDY to Phase 1 and 3, those 2 weeks are pretty well protected from other obligations. (Tip: Go to McCoy).
When I went through, we all did everything we could not to miss the weekends in phase 2 - because that meant having to do the extra DL assignments.
Good luck!
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Is ILE a hard requirement for O-5? For both active and us in reserve corps?
I’ve heard bad that things about DL for ILE but the pitch for spending 8 months sacrificing TWO weekends per month for the Army is going to go over with the missus like a lead balloon.
I’ve heard bad that things about DL for ILE but the pitch for spending 8 months sacrificing TWO weekends per month for the Army is going to go over with the missus like a lead balloon.
FortunateSon
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ILE is required for O-5 for most branches, but not for medical corps officers. OBC/BOLC is our only actual requirement (Ref: DA Pam 600-4). CCC and ILE make you more competitive for promotion and certain staff or command jobs, but in and of itself, O-5 is not difficult to get as a doc without ILE. Technically, ILE is a requirement for a battalion command - if you're interested in that - but I've certainly seen exceptions to that too.
Depending on your situation, a lot of units will release you from regular drill to do ILE for at least some of the months - they may not even have the IDT or AT days to give you to go to both. Alternatively, you can work with your G1 to fit ILE between assignments. Definitely explore those options before choosing DL over TASS.
Depending on your situation, a lot of units will release you from regular drill to do ILE for at least some of the months - they may not even have the IDT or AT days to give you to go to both. Alternatively, you can work with your G1 to fit ILE between assignments. Definitely explore those options before choosing DL over TASS.
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It may not be regulation, but OTSG has been pretty clear that you need CCC to get O-5, and ILE to get O-6.
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FortunateSon
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ArmyTiger makes a good point. While ILE is not a "hard requirement" as MC officers are considered "fully qualified" with just OBC/BOLC, being "fully qualified" doesn't guarantee promotion - especially as the boards get more competitive at the O-6 level. ILE is required to be considered "best qualified."
Here's how the reg (DA Pam 600-4, Table 6-1) puts it:
"With the exception of MS officers within MFA 70 or AOC 67J and with the further of exception as listed in note 5, completion of an officer basic course appropriate to their AOC satisfies minimum military education requirements for promotion to any grade for all AMEDD officers. However, in order to remain competitive at DA Selection Boards for promotion to the next higher grade, as well as to continued professional development, all AMEDD officers are strongly encouraged to continue with military education beyond their officer basic course."
Here's how the reg (DA Pam 600-4, Table 6-1) puts it:
"With the exception of MS officers within MFA 70 or AOC 67J and with the further of exception as listed in note 5, completion of an officer basic course appropriate to their AOC satisfies minimum military education requirements for promotion to any grade for all AMEDD officers. However, in order to remain competitive at DA Selection Boards for promotion to the next higher grade, as well as to continued professional development, all AMEDD officers are strongly encouraged to continue with military education beyond their officer basic course."
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I did ILE via TASS
Phase 1&3, 2 weeks each
Phase 2, one weekend per month
ILE would suck donkey balls to do by yourself. The advantage of having different branches in the same room cannot be underestimated. Parts of it would be incredibly difficult to grasp on your own unless you’ve had a good deal of operational experience. And even for the guys with tons of deployments in other branches, they had trouble at times as well. In my class, none of the physicians, nurses, or dentist were all that savvy for the “Army” parts of the course.
There was a JAG officer that was in phase 1 with me that tried to do phase 2 on his own. I had finished phase 3 and he was still repeating coursework in phase 2. Leavenworth would have him redo crappy work, much to his surprise.
I actually enjoyed ILE. It was kind of fun to exercise part of your brain that you don’t normally use. Heck, I even enjoyed writing the history paper. Mostly because I have been reading military history for fun for decades.
Phase 2 was by far the most time-consuming. I would estimate 20 to 40 hours of reading and work between drill weekends. But my type A personality drove me to try to excel, not just pass.
There is a four month course for active-duty guys that’s offered at Fort Gordon and Redstone Arsenal IIRC. Not sure if they’re gonna continue that. I had an acquaintance that did the four-month class at Redstone, he had nothing but good things to say about it. Beats a 10 month PCS to Leavenworth if you’re active-duty. Although, everything I’ve read about the resident course is that it is a long vacation with plenty time to spend with your family. But not the best for maintaining your skills as a physician
Being totally honest with myself, I’m not sure I could have finished ILE on my own, but I was top 20% for the TASS approach.
Ymmv
Phase 1&3, 2 weeks each
Phase 2, one weekend per month
ILE would suck donkey balls to do by yourself. The advantage of having different branches in the same room cannot be underestimated. Parts of it would be incredibly difficult to grasp on your own unless you’ve had a good deal of operational experience. And even for the guys with tons of deployments in other branches, they had trouble at times as well. In my class, none of the physicians, nurses, or dentist were all that savvy for the “Army” parts of the course.
There was a JAG officer that was in phase 1 with me that tried to do phase 2 on his own. I had finished phase 3 and he was still repeating coursework in phase 2. Leavenworth would have him redo crappy work, much to his surprise.
I actually enjoyed ILE. It was kind of fun to exercise part of your brain that you don’t normally use. Heck, I even enjoyed writing the history paper. Mostly because I have been reading military history for fun for decades.
Phase 2 was by far the most time-consuming. I would estimate 20 to 40 hours of reading and work between drill weekends. But my type A personality drove me to try to excel, not just pass.
There is a four month course for active-duty guys that’s offered at Fort Gordon and Redstone Arsenal IIRC. Not sure if they’re gonna continue that. I had an acquaintance that did the four-month class at Redstone, he had nothing but good things to say about it. Beats a 10 month PCS to Leavenworth if you’re active-duty. Although, everything I’ve read about the resident course is that it is a long vacation with plenty time to spend with your family. But not the best for maintaining your skills as a physician
Being totally honest with myself, I’m not sure I could have finished ILE on my own, but I was top 20% for the TASS approach.
Ymmv
FortunateSon
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ADSO for ILE is 2 years for active component, served concurrently. (Ref: AR 350-100).
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Sure you can. I would recommend having them come out for a long weekend in the middle. I did very little homework in Phase 1 or 3 on the weekend.
McCoy has great trout fishing I enjoyed in Phase 3, but Camp Parks CA is where I did Phase 1. Parks is at the end of the BART, so you are a 45 min ride from San Francisco and all the great restaurants, esp Chinatown!!
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You'll need to find someone, preferable AMEDD, that did it 100% online to answer that.
Because things that are second nature to a line officer are gonna take you longer to comprehend and master.
My guess is you will spend every second of your free time at work doing it. And likely more.
The only thing I can tell you with certainty is my recent experiment. (Graduated 6/17 ).
Going the TASS route, there was 0.5-2 hours of homework per night during Phase 1 and 3. (Those phases were my 2 week AT for two years). Phase 2 was one weekend per month from OCT-MAY. And between drills, it was 20- 40 hours of homework between drills. I worked on my stuff 2-5 nights per week for a couple of hours at a time. And a few Sunday afternoons, mostly for papers. I was a bit surprised how much time I spent on it, to be honest. During most of that time, much of my free time during the week, after work (full time solo doc in private practice) was either working on ILE or feeling guilty for not working on ILE.
I am the outlier for sure. Because, overall, I really liked ILE. I made some great friends and broadened my Army Reserve 'network'.
Because things that are second nature to a line officer are gonna take you longer to comprehend and master.
My guess is you will spend every second of your free time at work doing it. And likely more.
The only thing I can tell you with certainty is my recent experiment. (Graduated 6/17 ).
Going the TASS route, there was 0.5-2 hours of homework per night during Phase 1 and 3. (Those phases were my 2 week AT for two years). Phase 2 was one weekend per month from OCT-MAY. And between drills, it was 20- 40 hours of homework between drills. I worked on my stuff 2-5 nights per week for a couple of hours at a time. And a few Sunday afternoons, mostly for papers. I was a bit surprised how much time I spent on it, to be honest. During most of that time, much of my free time during the week, after work (full time solo doc in private practice) was either working on ILE or feeling guilty for not working on ILE.
I am the outlier for sure. Because, overall, I really liked ILE. I made some great friends and broadened my Army Reserve 'network'.
