I'll try again

[DO_Surgeon]

Ok, I have posted this topic before and really didnt get the answers I was hoping for so I will try again. Does anyone have any info on good DO general surgery residencies. I only took the COMLEX basically because I really didnt know what I wanted to go into back in June. So I almost feel that the DO way is about the only way to go at this point. Does anyone know any DO friendly allopathic residencies that do not require the USMLE?

Thanks

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[Idiopathic]

Originally posted by DO_Surgeon
DO friendly allopathic [surgery] residencies

Not likely.

 

[DD214_DOC]

You should consider the military, really. It makes getting started as a DO much easier.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

What??? Are you kidding me?

 

[Fermata]

Surgery is an old boy's club.

 

[VentdependenT]

You may be able to swing a good community general surgery program without taking the USMLE. As far as an academic institution is concerned you can rotate there and hope for the best. However without the USMLE on your side its going to hurt you.

Look into community programs or consider taking the STEP I. If you blow it then take step II and hope for da best.

I have no idea about DO general surg programs. I think all you need to get into one is just to apply.

Venty

 

[Idiopathic]

well put, i say.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

Kcav thanks for the response. So basically here is my thought process about it all and granted a lot can change over the next 5+ years, but I really think I want to do trauma/critical care. Well there is only one DO fellowship at Grant in Columbus, OH and about 2 dozen or so "allopathic" fellowships out there. I have been told that people aren't lining up around the block to do trauma, so could I potentially obtain an allopathic fellowship by doing a DO residency? I have looked at some of the trauma sites and the requirement is a "Board Certified Surgeon."

I totally understand that I have time to go back and take the USMLE and probably do well enough to get into an allopathic program, but I really dont want to go back and study again being that I did it once for COMLEX 1 in June. So I was hoping for a short cut and get into an allopathic program being that I believe a large number go unfilled each year.

 

[Docgeorge]

Kcav, can you tell us who you gave you some love?

 

[BOTB]

considering that the USMLE is the gold standard for candidates applying to allopathic residency's, why would you not take it?

as there is no common grading or ranking system at med schools across the country, our step I score is the only standard numerical value that residency programs have to compare med students - don't you want to know where you fit into the mix, and don't you want to prove to residency programs that you are top notch (in regards to taking the test)

it seems to me that taking the USMLE could only help you prove yourself if you are trying to get into an allopath residency

 

[BOTB]

Kcav: on behalf of doctors everywhere, I have always wanted to say thank you to the students who rotate on the service for 1 to 4 weeks at a time and routinely save the day and run the team. It is easy for you to be so entitled when you have no true responsibility for your actions (no matter how much you say you have, or how much you will tell us you had) if you go to a US school, the intern, resident or attedning above you has responsibility for all of your actions - not you. When you become a resident you will be amazed at how the world changes when you are where the buck stops. Your sense of entitlement and superioirty fly out the window very quickly, especially when you realize that residency is all about learning from those above and around you.

It is OK to boast about how you routinely saved the day on this message board, but realize that it only sounds arrogant and can't be taken seriosuly until you are the person actually responisble for your actions in the hospital.

 

[BOTB]

Everyone knows that there are good MDs and bad MDs, just like there are good DOs and bad ones.

Originally posted by Kcav

Sorry if it sounded like I was making huge generalizations but until proven otherwise I will continue believing that DO Surgeons are better clinicians/surgeons than MD Surgeons.

You contradict yourself by apologizing for making generalizations only to follow it with another generalizations. People who make sweeping generalizations, especially negative ones, only sound ignorant to those around them.

 

[Docgeorge]

What I ment by who gave you love is who offered you interviews and did there seem to be any bias once you got there.

 

[BOTB]

Originally posted by Kcav

You're right. I'm an ignorant SOB!!! [/B]

no need to put words in my mouth - I never called you an SOB

 

[Celiac Plexus]

Why is it that DOs are the ones that ususally start the whole "us v them" dialogue?

It's boring.

Get over yourself, and your insecurities.

____

As for the OP asking about DO-friendly programs... Don't ask this board, and expect big help. Instead, ask your adviser at your school. Ask some young DO surgeon types.

I imagine now that surgery has become more competitive in the last couple of years that it will be harder for a DO to get a spot. However there are a significant number of them in the pgy 3-4 class that would be a good resource.

And I would take Step I if I were you.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

Celiac Plexus:

Thanks for the post. I know that I probably should take the USMLE, but just idea of studying for it isn't all too appealing at the moment. Let me shift my question to DO gen surgery residencies. Are they any out there worth a ****? My impression from this board is that if you show up at any DO program with a pulse you will most likely find a spot in their program so that leads me to believe that they are not too strong. I have ZERO interest in research so I really could care less if I go to a big academic place. As I posted before trauma is where my interest lies and I just don't want to be left out in the cold after five years of doing a DO residency only to find out that the trauma fellowships only take graduates from ACGME programs.

 

[VentdependenT]

DOsurG,

Contact some of the DO residencies and ask them straight up if any of their residents have ever done a trauma fellowship. If not, then ask if its possible to do one afterwards.

Then contact some allo community programs (you don't need to bother with the academic ones as they will provide you the opportunity to land your trauma fellowship) and ask the same questions as above. My guess is that they will say yes to at least one of those questions. Don't forget to ask about the COMLEX scores as well. Gen surg is again at least moderately competitive. As such flying solo with COMLEX may not land you those interviews which Kcav mentioned. As a side, ff you rotate there and do well I bet they'll overlook the COMLEX factor.

If you are thinking about doing an allopathic trauma fellowship then I would highly recommend that you train allo for your surgery residency. Then you avoid the potential hastles which you will most likey incur going osteo.


I'd like to thank the involved party for inciting a mini f&*king flame war. Good work. Especially commen from a osteo who was looking to match at an allo surg program. WTF?

 

[BOTB]

Originally posted by DO_Surgeon

I know that I probably should take the USMLE, but just idea of studying for it isn't all too appealing at the moment.

The question you have to ask yourself is: how bad do I want to be in an allopathic surgery residency? If you truly feel like you stated in your post, that in general DO programs are not that strong, you should be fired up to take the USMLE to help your chances of getting into an allopathic residency. Decide on your priorities, then act on them - only you know what they are and how important they are to yourself.

As with most things in life: you have to put in the required effort to acheive the results you desire.

 

[tropicaldoc2004]

DO_surgeon,

On the interview trail I met acouple of Do's interviewing at academic allopathic surgery programs. They had both just taken the comlex, but they had done some research and had been published. The programs I saw them at were U Mass, Penn State and Creighton. I also know one of them also interviewed at Temple and Thomas Jefferson. Both of these applicants had done well on Comlex and had published and also had good grades and recs...I do not know specifics on the rest of their application, but they were there and one of them has been getting great feedback from the programs! So you do have a chance, but it may just be a bit harder. Good Luck!@

 

[DO_Surgeon]

Tropicaldoc, thanks for the post. I unfotunately have not published anything and have done very little in the research world. I have decent board scores, 75 percentile on the COMLEX 1, nothing earth shattering, and I am in the top 10-15% of my class. I will have some solid letters of rec, most of which will be from MDs. I have no problem with doing a DO residency, but I am having a difficult time finding what ones are any good. I know I sound lazy by saying that I don't want to study for the USMLE, but I really dont know if I have the attention span to do it. Its been awhile since I have sat around and memorized stupid little factoids. Anyone have any experience with a DO program or two? Thanks!

 

[surgeon4]

do surgeon,
are you a 3rd or 4th year student?

 

[Docgeorge]

Check out Mercy Medical Center in DSM. Beware though starting next year the residency will be 6 years long with a mandatory research year. Additionaly I know it's in the process of appling for ACGME accredation.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

I'm a third year student from DMU. The whold idea of research really turns me off. What about Ohio and the CORE? As mentioned I have interest in trauma I'm guessing Doctors North in Columbus, OH and most likely all other ohio programs use Grant as their trauma site. Does anyone have any knowledge on the Ohio programs?

 

[Docgeorge]

I'd say shoot the craps with allo programs if you get interviews you might get matched. Also when your looking at places to do residency look at the #'s of different kinds of cases that you will be doing and how much volume the ER of that hospital gets and what % of admissions come from ER. Also might want to check tSt. Barny's in brooklin, scuttlebutt is that they are trauma heavy. I'd really think about takeing a cush elective during your elective time this year and just study for the USMLE. I mean you alredy kind of studyied for it for COMLEX it'd be a whole lot easier studing for the USMLE at the end of this year. Look at it this way if you eat it on the USMLE no one has to ever know you took it.

just my .02 cents