I'm 42 years old, I'd like a reality check on my chances of medical school admission

[RyanCrane]

Degrees: BS Physics, BS Psychology, BS Chemistry, BS Aerospace Engineering (I went back to school after my first two dual-degree program for a second)

Graduate Degree: PhD Physics (Particle), GPA: 3.75

Publications: Graduate Thesis

Undergraduate Cumulative GPA: 3.33

Undergraduate Science GPA: 3.48

MCAT: 528 (third attempt)

State of Residence: TX

Ethnicity/Race: White

Clinical Experience: None

Research Experience: Graduate School-Related

Shadowing: None

Non-Clinical Volunteering: Weekly RMHC Volunteer, Weekly Men's Rehabilitation Center Volunteer

Extracurriculars: Engineers Without Borders, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Chess Club, Society of Physics Students, Rocketry Club, Quiz Bowl

Relatives in Medicine: Both Parents are Registered Nurses

Specialty of Interest: Infectious Disease

Languages: Fluent in Spanish, Mandarin Chinese, Tagalog

Other: I'm 42 years old, I am married with three kids. I've worked as an Advanced Weapons Effectors Engineer for close to a decade now. I had a relatively lackluster GPA in my undergraduate days due to laziness, and all of my lacking clinical volunteering, shadowing and such can be made up, I'm not pressed for time to apply, I just want the strongest application possible.

Schools Applying to: Johns Hopkins (Number One Choice), Yale, Harvard, Dell, University of Kentucky, University of Michigan, Columbia, Stanford, or anything I can get without going international.

Thanks for your feedback!

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[srirachamayonnaise]

Impressive MCAT, and that might get you in. Other than that, probably low chance.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It's possible. What did any admissions officials say? Why not stay in Texas?

 

[RyanCrane]

It's possible. What did any admissions officials say? Why not stay in Texas?

Haven't spoken to any. Winging most of this, my first big step was taking the MCAT. There's still much to do, but knowing how I stand at this moment is important to me. As for remaining in Texas, I'll take any decent school I can get into, but Hopkins is the dream. I haven't applied to any yet, but when I do I'll tackle at least 15-20 schools on my first round.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Haven't spoken to any. Winging most of this, my first big step was taking the MCAT. There's still much to do, but knowing how I stand at this moment is important to me. As for remaining in Texas, I'll take any decent school I can get into, but Hopkins is the dream. I haven't applied to any yet, but when I do I'll tackle at least 15-20 schools on my first round.

I would check with Texas A&M and their EnMed program (link later unless you can find it). Carle in Illinois also has a curriculum specifically for engineers.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I started med school in my 30’s after several careers and becoming completely financially bulletproof. My question is why do you want to do medicine now? Is it just a dream? The reality of medicine is quite different when you do it. Also you will be close to 50 when you are done with the training. Money wise it’s a drain at this stage of your career. I would try to figure out why you want to pursue this. Tbh, if you say you want to do it for patient care, very few people will buy that. If you say you want to do it for curiosity, I don’t think you will get in. Or maybe you are just bored at your current job? From your profile, I would think you are a brilliant person who gets bored very very easily. And I would say you wouldn’t be happy in a clinical setting

 

[RyanCrane]

I started med school in my 30’s after several careers and becoming completely financially bulletproof. My question is why do you want to do medicine now? Is it just a dream? The reality of medicine is quite different when you do it. Also you will be close to 50 when you are done with the training. Money wise it’s a drain at this stage of your career. I would try to figure out why you want to pursue this. Tbh, if you say you want to do it for patient care, very few people will buy that. If you say you want to do it for curiosity, I don’t think you will get in. Or maybe you are just bored at your current job? From your profile, I would think you are a brilliant person who gets bored very very easily. And I would say you wouldn’t be happy in a clinical setting

I've tried to find challenges for myself all throughout my life, I always NEED a mountain to climb, otherwise I'm lost. I enjoy medicine, I was raised around it. No, to be honest and under the guise of anonymity, I don't care about the patients, hence why being a Psychiatrist or Pediatrician isn't in my wheelhouse. I want people to be healthy, and I'll go to wits end to get them there, but I'm no Mother Theresa. Financially, my wife still works and my kids are old enough to where they don't need round the clock care. I can retire now and have a decent pension to draw from for the foreseeable future. As for being happy in a clinical setting, no, maybe not. But I don't do things to be happy, I do them to challenge myself, and I can put on a happy face for whoever needs it.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I've tried to find challenges for myself all throughout my life, I always NEED a mountain to climb, otherwise I'm lost. I enjoy medicine, I was raised around it. No, to be honest and under the guise of anonymity, I don't care about the patients, hence why being a Psychiatrist or Pediatrician isn't in my wheelhouse. I want people to be healthy, and I'll go to wits end to get them there, but I'm no Mother Theresa. Financially, my wife still works and my kids are old enough to where they don't need round the clock care. I can retire now and have a decent pension to draw from for the foreseeable future. As for being happy in a clinical setting, no, maybe not. But I don't do things to be happy, I do them to challenge myself, and I can put on a happy face for whoever needs it.

I am very much the same. So I recognize that pattern when I see it in you. I think you think getting into med school especially Hopkins is a mountain to scale. But you will get very very bored very quickly in medicine too. And you will not enjoy the day to day life of a physician. Well, I think you should find another mountain to climb, maybe start up a company or whatnot.

 

[RyanCrane]

I am very much the same. So I recognize that pattern when I see it in you. I think you think getting into med school especially Hopkins is a mountain to scale. But you will get very very bored very quickly in medicine too. And you will not enjoy the day to day life of a physician. Well, I think you should find another mountain to climb, maybe start up a company or whatnot.

You may be right. Perhaps I should start smaller with CNA or EMT-type work, PA school, or maybe just some basic shadowing. It's not for a career, I've already had one, but for exposure to the field. From the textbooks I've read regarding histology, anatomy/physiology, endocrinology etc., I've really fell in love with it. But clinical-wise, I may end up being too bitter. Funnily enough, bedside manner would be the hardest thing for me to learn, I believe.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

You may be right. Perhaps I should start smaller with CNA or EMT-type work, PA school, or maybe just some basic shadowing. It's not for a career, I've already had one, but for exposure to the field. From the textbooks I've read regarding histology, anatomy/physiology, endocrinology etc., I've really fell in love with it. But clinical-wise, I may end up being too bitter. Funnily enough, bedside manner would be the hardest thing for me to learn, I believe.

Then maybe a PhD in something is more suitable.

 

[ese2]

Did you take all your prereq courses? if you can work a clinical job for a year and then apply, you would be in a really good position. I don't know about Hopkins because T5's are a different beast entirely but you'd definitely be competitive for UTSW/BCM/Long/Etc. in Texas.

 

[DarkBluMage]

You may be right. Perhaps I should start smaller with CNA or EMT-type work, PA school, or maybe just some basic shadowing. It's not for a career, I've already had one, but for exposure to the field. From the textbooks I've read regarding histology, anatomy/physiology, endocrinology etc., I've really fell in love with it. But clinical-wise, I may end up being too bitter. Funnily enough, bedside manner would be the hardest thing for me to learn, I believe.

Did you think about what’s important for the patients you’d be seeing? Honestly after reading this whole thread I would never want a doctor like you in charge of my care if you became one. There are enough bad doctors. If you don’t care about people and just want to be challenged then medical care is not the place for that.

 

[RyanCrane]

Did you think about what’s important for the patients you’d be seeing? Honestly after reading this whole thread I would never want a doctor like you in charge of my care if you became one. There are enough bad doctors. If you don’t care about people and just want to be challenged then medical care is not the place for that.

People see physicians to get healthy, not to make friends. Only in the United States and some European countries do people feel entitled to chivalry from their caregivers. I don't care if my doctor makes fun of my nose, points out the stains on my shirt and makes all but two minutes of his time for me, as long as I leave void of whatever ailment I came in with, or en route thereof. That's the sign of good doctor, not to be confused with a friendly one. If it's truly a career-halting issue that the interviewers may or may not pick out, then maybe medical research is better.

 

[DarkBluMage]

People see physicians to get healthy, not to make friends. Only in the United States and some European countries do people feel entitled to chivalry from their caregivers. I don't care if my doctor makes fun of my nose, points out the stains on my shirt and makes all but two minutes of his time for me, as long as I leave void of whatever ailment I came in with, or en route thereof. That's the sign of good doctor, not to be confused with a friendly one. If it's truly a career-halting issue that the interviewers may or may not pick out, then maybe medical research is better.

The sign of a good doctor is being properly educated on their field and treating patients with empathy and humanely. Your response only further confirmed the feeling I had that you don’t actually care about patients at all. Patients are human beings that are trusting you with their health and in some instances their life. Treating them kindly while doing your best to treat their illness’s is honestly bare minimum. They’re not just puzzles for you to solve so that you can feel mentally stimulated. Your lack of empathy is terrible for the field of medicine. I wouldn’t want you treating anyone in my family let alone me.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

People see physicians to get healthy, not to make friends. Only in the United States and some European countries do people feel entitled to chivalry from their caregivers. I don't care if my doctor makes fun of my nose, points out the stains on my shirt and makes all but two minutes of his time for me, as long as I leave void of whatever ailment I came in with, or en route thereof. That's the sign of good doctor, not to be confused with a friendly one. If it's truly a career-halting issue that the interviewers may or may not pick out, then maybe medical research is better.

I strongly suggest against clinical medicine for your sake actually. Human touch does make a difference. I am not a touchy feely person per se, but I don't hold this pure utilitarian attitude either. Go do medical research and I think you will be really challenged. Don't mean to be demeaning or derogatory, but I think your personality is unfit for being a physician.

 

[deleted1129372]

What were you first 2 MCATs?

 

[mike-sheree]

I would like to second Carle at U of Ill in Champaig-Urbana. You COULD be an ideal candidate. Particle physics PhD and rad-onc research? Could be a compelling combination. But that is TRULY long range planning at this stage.

 

[RyanCrane]

What were you first 2 MCATs?

521, both times

 

[RyanCrane]

Throughout the years of obtaining my bachelor's in physics, I learned that great scientists don't typically make great philosophers. This is a prime example. You're intelligent, but fail to accept both the essence of a physician and the ethos of medicine.

Philosophy is fine and dandy in the private study and in a dimly lit bar to impress friends and females. In a clinical setting, all that matters is that you make someone healthier, not happier. All the more power to doctors whose ability to relate to patients comes naturally. To those that don't, it's a waste of brain bandwidth to try and meander around awkward "I'm so sorry's" and "That's a sad (but unrelated) anecdote to your treatment's".

 

[RyanCrane]

I would like to second Carle at U of Ill in Champaig-Urbana. You COULD be an ideal candidate. Particle physics PhD and rad-onc research? Could be a compelling combination. But that is TRULY long range planning at this stage.

I have no interest in oncology. The clinical equivalent to pulling night-watch shifts on death-row inmates. Yawn.

 

[RyanCrane]

I strongly suggest against clinical medicine for your sake actually. Human touch does make a difference. I am not a touchy feely person per se, but I don't hold this pure utilitarian attitude either. Go do medical research and I think you will be really challenged. Don't mean to be demeaning or derogatory, but I think your personality is unfit for being a physician.

Perhaps, knowing the entitlement and sensitivity of patients nowadays, medical licenses are being revoked left and right for offensive scowls and bad jokes.

 

[gardensoflife]

Perhaps, knowing the entitlement and sensitivity of patients nowadays, medical licenses are being revoked left and right for offensive scowls and bad jokes.

If I may, I don’t think this is the right attitude to have as a doctor (or even as a fellow human). I’m thinking that if being respectful toward others and being in touch with your patients’ emotional state are things that bother you, then you may not find much satisfaction in medicine. Also, it would be unfair for patients to be forced to be exposed to someone with your views. Finally, much of what you learn in medical school is humanistic and focused toward engaging with patients emotionally as a healer; this is content that may not interest you.

It sounds like you do have a genuine interest in increasing people’s health, without wanting to actually interact with people. As others have mentioned, you might find what you’re looking for in PhD level work like pre-clinical research or pharmaceutical research. You will be able to make permanent discoveries and have a wide reach. Just please for the sake of the patients do not do any patient-centered work.

 

[mike-sheree]

Not all physicians love or even appreciate dealing with corporeal patients. Med school, clinical internship and 2 years G.P. made me realize that me and clinical practice was a nonstarter that would be a disservice to all. But, I was able to care ( and I use that word in the truest sense) for patients thru decades of pathology practice. Every slide represents a patient and may challenge you with critical decisions which you must make-correctly.
I’m not alone in this regard and pathology is not the only way to serve.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Not all physicians love or even appreciate dealing with corporeal patients. Med school, clinical internship and 2 years G.P. made me realize that me and clinical practice was a nonstarter that would be a disservice to all. But, I was able to care ( and I use that word in the truest sense) for patients thru decades of pathology practice. Every slide represents a patient and may challenge you with critical decisions which you must make-correctly.
I’m not alone in this regard and pathology is not the only way to serve.

It’s not about every doctor needing to love patients. Doctors should care about their patients though. Imagine all of the bad encounters patients would have to deal with from having someone tending to them that didn’t care about them at all. That’s unacceptable. Becoming an attending doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Med students and residents have constant contact with patients throughout their education. Every patient encounter matters along the journey. Patients deserve better than someone who doesn’t care about them tending to them just cause they’re trying to make it to a path lab or non-patient facing fields of medicine so they can personally feel stimulated in life. Not everyone is cut out for dealing with patients every day in a clinical setting and may prefer Path or radiology, and that’s completely ok. People have different strengths, however that doesn’t mean that a base line of empathy for patients doesn’t need to be present.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

521, both times

Lol, clearly you are doing it for the sake of getting a 528 and getting into a top school. It’s like you have this addiction. Don’t waste your time applying. You won’t get in anywhere no matter what. Your motive is too clear here.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I have no interest in oncology. The clinical equivalent to pulling night-watch shifts on death-row inmates. Yawn.

Tbh, curing cancer is probably the holy grail of medicine. But you just want the thrill of tangible results such as a 528 and an acceptance letter to Hopkins. Then you immediately move on to the next hit. Well, it’s ok if you are doing something as a hobby. But your attitude is not suitable for long and steady genuine pursuit of anything. I am gonna be brutally honest here. Most likely in your current career, you have been quite mediocre because you don’t see the immediate reward. It’s too bad you are clearly very smart. But you don’t have the dedication and real motive to contribute. My final advice, get a hobby such as cycling or Ironman or playing Tetris so you get a carrot dangling in front of you constantly.

 

[mike-sheree]

As a contrarian, I must state that having a strong aversion to patient CONTACT does not, at all, equate with an aversion to patient CARE or OUTCOME. This is a big, big field with slots for a multitude of personalities. The problem physician, for patients, colleagues and administrators, is the one who is dishonest and/or delusional with themself and is a “square peg” who insists on fitting into a round hole.

 

[DarkBluMage]

As a contrarian, I must state that having a strong aversion to patient CONTACT does not, at all, equate with an aversion to patient CARE or OUTCOME. This is a big, big field with slots for a multitude of personalities. The problem physician, for patients, colleagues and administrators, is the one who is dishonest and/or delusional with themself and is a “square peg” who insists on fitting into a round hole.

I didn’t say anything negative about aversion to patient contact. I already said that’s ok and that people have different strengths. What’s not ok is NOT CARING about patients. A person that doesn’t care about patients and can’t show a basic level of empathy while in charge of their health and wellbeing has no business being a doctor. Once again, reaching the attending level doesn’t happen in a vacuum. The problem physician is also the one who doesn’t tend to the emotional responsibility a physician has while tending to sick people.

 

[gyngyn]

This is a big, big field with slots for a multitude of personalities.

Sadly, we cannot require those with a disdain for patient care (or patients) to go into a non-patient facing specialty.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

As a contrarian, I must state that having a strong aversion to patient CONTACT does not, at all, equate with an aversion to patient CARE or OUTCOME. This is a big, big field with slots for a multitude of personalities. The problem physician, for patients, colleagues and administrators, is the one who is dishonest and/or delusional with themself and is a “square peg” who insists on fitting into a round hole.

I understand people later on realize that patient contact is not necessarily what they want. But from the get go? No.

 

[LetsDoThisThrowaway]

521, both times

Why did you retake? Were they expired?

If not, I could see Adcoms being confused about your judgment.


As an aside, congrats on the decent MCAT but as someone who scored within the same range as you just note it certainly wont carry you to an acceptance and youre lacking in the other qualities most folks are looking for in physicians, so really depends on how much you can fake that.


As others have echoed, plenty of other fields where you can get your jimmies off that doesn't directly impact patient care.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

I do not see you getting past the interview stage at any medical school. I certainly hope not at least. Go do a PhD.

 

[mike-sheree]

Sadly, we cannot require those with a disdain for patient care (or patients) to go into a non-patient facing specialty.

Amen.

 

[mike-sheree]

I understand people later on realize that patient contact is not necessarily what they want. But from the get go? No.

I believe that is almost 100% true.

 

[RyanCrane]

I do not see you getting past the interview stage at any medical school. I certainly hope not at least. Go do a PhD.

Already did, PhD in what else?

 

[RyanCrane]

Why did you retake? Were they expired?

If not, I could see Adcoms being confused about your judgment.


As an aside, congrats on the decent MCAT but as someone who scored within the same range as you just note it certainly wont carry you to an acceptance and youre lacking in the other qualities most folks are looking for in physicians, so really depends on how much you can fake that.


As others have echoed, plenty of other fields where you can get your jimmies off that doesn't directly impact patient care.

I retook because it wasn't a 528. And I was going to take it until it was. As for faking empathy, I can be a regular Tom Hanks. People in this thread want me to change fundamentally, but that's never going to happen. I can pretend to care though, make them feel like I'm a grandpa that they never had, if that's what it takes.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I retook because it wasn't a 528. And I was going to take it until it was. As for faking empathy, I can be a regular Tom Hanks. People in this thread want me to change fundamentally, but that's never going to happen. I can pretend to care though, make them feel like I'm a grandpa that they never had, if that's what it takes.

Ok Thanks for the entertainment. Lol

 

[RyanCrane]

Tbh, curing cancer is probably the holy grail of medicine. But you just want the thrill of tangible results such as a 528 and an acceptance letter to Hopkins. Then you immediately move on to the next hit. Well, it’s ok if you are doing something as a hobby. But your attitude is not suitable for long and steady genuine pursuit of anything. I am gonna be brutally honest here. Most likely in your current career, you have been quite mediocre because you don’t see the immediate reward. It’s too bad you are clearly very smart. But you don’t have the dedication and real motive to contribute. My final advice, get a hobby such as cycling or Ironman or playing Tetris so you get a carrot dangling in front of you constantly.

Seeking gratification through a field that inherently results in the assistance of others through wellbeing should be met with animosity just because the provider is rightfully annoyed at idiot patients and those who are already aspersive to their doctors from the start anyways. If a patient is kind to me, I will be kind back. If I need to fake empathy to keep my job and license, then I will. But fundamentally, I don't care. Just like the patient doesn't care about my upcoming gall bladder surgery, I don't care about their runny nose. But I WILL do my job and help them. I may not be the CEO of my company, but I made damn well sure I was the one to go to when a problem couldn't be figured out. That's the role I play, and that's a necessary role for at least one person in any given field, especially medicine where being right and efficient tips the scales of life.

 

[RyanCrane]

Lol, clearly you are doing it for the sake of getting a 528 and getting into a top school. It’s like you have this addiction. Don’t waste your time applying. You won’t get in anywhere no matter what. Your motive is too clear here.

It's as if the purpose of the test is to increase your chances of acceptance to better schools and in general.

 

[RyanCrane]

Ok Thanks for the entertainment. Lol

No, I'm serious about this career path. Not everyone going into it is a saint with stigmata.

 

[NITRAS]

I’m sorry, but 4 undergraduate degrees a (3 of them are seriously intense) plus a PhD in science. You have NO clinical experience.

Why do you think an MD is going to scratch the itch you are trying to get? I honestly doubt it. You are a smart cookie, but I think you are broken and wouldn’t do well in cluster that is medical school and residency.

If you were halfway serious about medicine as a career you would do a serious attempt at shadowing and clinical volunteering.

Good luck.

 

[wysdoc]

Moderator note:
We have managed to keep this discussion on the civil side so far, let’s continue please and if you don’t agree with something, be constructive not combative. I slightly edited one comment.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

It's as if the purpose of the test is to increase your chances of acceptance to better schools and in general.

But you do understand the concept of diminishing returns, right? You said you would keep taking the test until you get a 528. What’s the rationale behind that?

 

[RyanCrane]

I’m sorry, but 4 undergraduate degrees a (3 of them are seriously intense) plus a PhD in science. You have NO clinical experience.

Why do you think an MD is going to scratch the itch you are trying to get? I honestly doubt it. You are a smart cookie, but I think you are broken and wouldn’t do well in cluster that is medical school and residency.

If you were halfway serious about medicine as a career you would do a serious attempt at shadowing and clinical volunteering.

Good luck.

Medicine offers a front row seat to the best and most diverse puzzles that mother nature has to offer. I can't think of something more stimulating that I haven't tried yet. Sudoku only goes so far, know what I mean? As for the volunteering and clinical experience, there has been nary enough time. I did some stroke research with a neurosurgeon back in my chemistry undergraduate days, but that's it. Now however, I have access to enough independence and educational freedom that I could make shadowing and clinical volunteering my full time job. I could uppercut admissions with thousands of hours in a matter of months, that's not an issue.

 

[RyanCrane]

But you do understand the concept of diminishing returns, right? You said you would keep taking the test until you get a 528. What’s the rationale behind that?

To be the best I could in a category I now have control over at this moment. My transcript and GPA are sealed and done, and hardly impressive. There must be commensurate balancing in the other categories present to me now.

 

[deleted1139416]

Medicine offers a front row seat to the best and most diverse puzzles that mother nature has to offer. I can't think of something more stimulating that I haven't tried yet.

I think in your mind you believe that you’re gonna be the next House. And trust me, you won’t.

 

[RyanCrane]

I think in your mind you believe that you’re gonna be the next House. And trust me, you won’t.

From what little I've seen, I don't care about "House". If that were true, I feel I would have been a doctor long ago. Is there any reason why I'm not capable of being an efficient doctor in your mind?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

To be the best I could in a category I now have control over at this moment. My transcript and GPA are sealed and done, and hardly impressive. There must be commensurate balancing in the other categories present to me now.

But do you also understand that a 521 is statistically equivalent to 528? I mean you sure understand the concept of statistical significance given your solid science background.

 

[RyanCrane]

But do you also understand that a 521 is statistically equivalent to 528? I mean you sure understand the concept of statistical significance given your solid science background.

With a Std. Dev of 10.8 and 521-(ish) being the 98 percentile rank and 528 being 100 percentile, I'd say that's a statistically significant difference when factoring in the gulf that's crossed in getting those last seven points. I haven't taken a non-field of study related statistics class since my psychology degree, many years ago.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

With a Std. Dev of 10.8 and 521-(ish) being the 98 percentile rank and 528 being 100 percentile, I'd say that's a statistically significant difference when factoring in the gulf that's crossed in getting those last seven points. I haven't taken a non-field of study related statistics class since my psychology degree, many years ago.

I don’t think you fully understand the concept of st dev and the means. Your 521 is more than two standard dev away from the mean of 500. And 528 is not one standard dev away from 521. 528 is 3 standard deviation away from 500. That is, standard deviation is only meaningful from the perspective of the means…. I still think you are trolling us given that you can’t get this concept.