I'm a tad concerned podiatrists aren't granted DO

[hullcrush]

It seems four years of medical training postgrad should be awarded an equivalent degree. (I don't consider chiropractic four years of medical training ).
Then I realised the hole in my argument was the dental/optometry profession, but they cannot rx medications or perform general anesthetised surgeries (DDS/OD at least).

Whats in a name you say? I'd say that being equated with nurses on the pay scales of the military and government as an allied health professional is unfortunate.

I wouldn't mind being a DPM regardless of title, but the evil elitist god complex side of me wants some reward for even getting to podiatry school.

So, I guess my question is... why isn't admission to MD/DO school a prereq to becoming a podiatrist? Where the hell did that diverge? For the most part, it seems like a cash cow conspiracy between md/do/dpm for the students that couldn't get into the two former.

-UG senior.

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[Feli]

...I wouldn't mind being a DPM regardless of title, but the evil elitist god complex side of me wants some reward for even getting to podiatry school....

"Getting to" podiatry school isn't very difficult. Graduating is fairly tough. Graduating near the top of your class and landing a high quality residency is quite a great accomplishment.

I hate to say it, but with comments like that one above, you probably won't be very satisfied no matter what you do. You need to sit back and think about what you would like to do with your life. You are sounding like you're about 15 years old and expect success and respect to be handed to you. Go retake the MCAT and shadow some docs...

... why isn't admission to MD/DO school a prereq to becoming a podiatrist? Where the hell did that diverge? ....

Necessity. There is no podiatry residency in MD/DO.

Internal med or ER will teach a cursory understanding of common foot pathologies (athlete's foot, ankle sprains, etc). Ortho residency will give a decent amount of ankle cases and some foot cases, but nowhere near the volume of today's DPM residencies. Vascular, trauma, general surgery, infectious dz, or derm would teach you how to do most emergency limb salvage stuff, treat osteomyelitis, or take out a tumor, etc, but again, nowhere near the volume of podiatric pathology that a DPM would get at a good residency. Radiology would give you some exposure to F&A imaging, but again, how are you supposed to see everything unless you are highly familiar with the pathologic processes as they manifest in the lower extremity?

Well, without a specialist, what's going to happen to the difficult cases? Glomus tumors are going to be a mystery. Congenital pediatric clubfoot is going to get operated on over and over. Toe surgeries will be rushed through because they don't reimberse nearly as much as those ACL reconstructs or hip fractures. Psoriasis will get treated with antifungals because it looks different on the foot and was misdiagnosed. Catch my drift? Anywhere there's room for improvement yet no resolution being made, that leaves a niche to be filled...

Most MD/DOs who have a good podiatrist on staff at their hospital or as a common referral will tell you they rely on him frequently and love it. They now have a specialist to send their diabetic foot care, foot surgery, etc to under the logical assumption that the patient will receive top level foot care because DPMs have the most education and experience in those pathologies and treatment modalities.

 

[hullcrush]

My question is actually Why isn't podiatry an MD/DO residency? but I appreciate the example of life in the day of a podiatrist.

I will be shadowing soon. I live in, quite frankly, the middle of nowhere and dpms are hard to come by. I guess if I was actually as inhumble as I am perceived, I would be offended by your remark about my age. Fortunately, strangers' opinions are rarely equal, and I recognise this. In addition, I am not under the impression the program is not difficult.

I'll wait 'til after getting my DPM to be bitter about not going to med school, not before. It's called optimism.

 

[Feli]

My question is actually Why isn't podiatry an MD/DO residency?...

Well, when podiatry eductation and formally trained podiatrists began about 100yrs ago (often referred to as "chiropody" and "chiropodists" in that era), it was because MDs weren't spending enough time on the lower extremity. After pod schools had been around for a couple decades, the AMA stated, "chiropody is not a cult as is osteopathy, chiropractic, or Christian science, which have nonscientific bases of treatment. Chiropody is an ancillary to medical practice in a limited field considered not important enough for they physician, and, therefore, too often neglected, and fills a gap in the medical profession." *

I guess MD/DO never really saw a need for podiatry residencies. Why would they when there are schools which specialize in the treatment of the foot all along and have graduates who know the anatomy more extensively? I'm not sure podiatry residencies ever existed for MD/DO, and I'd be fairly certain that they haven't since DPM residencies emerged in 1965. Why try to compete with a group who is already doing a good job of filling a need that few MD/DOs wanted to deal with anyways?

*Principles and Practice of Podiatric Medicine, (2006) chapter 1 by Leonard Levy, DPM, MPH

More info related to your questions/insecurities:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=371332&highlight=principles+podiatric

 

[hullcrush]

thanks

 

[Drill2Fill]

It seems four years of medical training postgrad should be awarded an equivalent degree. (I don't consider chiropractic four years of medical training ).
Then I realised the hole in my argument was the dental/optometry profession, but they cannot rx medications or perform general anesthetised surgeries (DDS/OD at least).

Whats in a name you say? I'd say that being equated with nurses on the pay scales of the military and government as an allied health professional is unfortunate.

I wouldn't mind being a DPM regardless of title, but the evil elitist god complex side of me wants some reward for even getting to podiatry school.

So, I guess my question is... why isn't admission to MD/DO school a prereq to becoming a podiatrist? Where the hell did that diverge? For the most part, it seems like a cash cow conspiracy between md/do/dpm for the students that couldn't get into the two former.

-UG senior.

You might want to check your info on that, at least for dentistry.

 

[Envision]

You might want to check your info on that, at least for dentistry.

Agreed, have you ever had a oral surgeon operate on you with out anesthesia or medication...must be pretty painful. Dentist do have rx rights.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Agreed, have you ever had a oral surgeon operate on you with out anesthesia or medication...must be pretty painful. Dentist do have rx rights.

I am very thankful that they knocked me out for my wisdom teeth. And maxillofacial surgeons do undergo PG training; of course this is not the norm with general DDS (i.e the majority of DDS).

As for why are DPMs not DO/MD, I agree that they have a separate past but a similar future, the same can be said for DOs vs. MDs. I don't know if the degrees will ever merger b/c of power. For the DPM degree to merge, the DPM leaders must be willing to lose a lot of power. All of the Deans of the DPM colleges would be out of a job. The APMA would probably go away being replaced by the AMA; ACFAS may or may not be around b/c they could merge with AOFAS. So a lot of people who make these decisions would lose a lot of power. Do you think that they are willing to do so? The system would more than likely move toward the integration of the DO programs before it moved to a full merger.

I do like the comments that Feli had about MDs and DOs don't want to look at feet. The same is still true today. I see patients everyday that went to PCP or were in patients that DPMs were the only ones who look at there feet, even when they complained about them or sought medical care for foot issues. I talk to a guy yesterday that had a partial foot amputation from a blister that he saw his PCP 5 times for. The doctor told him that they are just blisters, but never looked at them. Well after losing those two toes, he doesn't see that PCP any longer.

 

[densmore22]

I am very thankful that they knocked me out for my wisdom teeth. And maxillofacial surgeons do undergo PG training; of course this is not the norm with general DDS (i.e the majority of DDS).

As for why are DPMs not DO/MD, I agree that they have a separate past but a similar future, the same can be said for DOs vs. MDs. I don't know if the degrees will ever merger b/c of power. For the DPM degree to merge, the DPM leaders must be willing to lose a lot of power. All of the Deans of the DPM colleges would be out of a job. The APMA would probably go away being replaced by the AMA; ACFAS may or may not be around b/c they could merge with AOFAS. So a lot of people who make these decisions would lose a lot of power. Do you think that they are willing to do so? The system would more than likely move toward the integration of the DO programs before it moved to a full merger.

I do like the comments that Feli had about MDs and DOs don't want to look at feet. The same is still true today. I see patients everyday that went to PCP or were in patients that DPMs were the only ones who look at there feet, even when they complained about them or sought medical care for foot issues. I talk to a guy yesterday that had a partial foot amputation from a blister that he saw his PCP 5 times for. The doctor told him that they are just blisters, but never looked at them. Well after losing those two toes, he doesn't see that PCP any longer.

And I hope that there's a lawsuit pending. Seriously, I'm all for no legal action, but sometimes, providers are just begging for it.

 

[densmore22]

I would say the biggest reason why Podiatry isn't an MD/DO residency is necessity. Like stated before, why would they create a new residency for MD/DO's when DPM's already fill that niche. I could understand if there was a gross shortage or a lack of service, but there isn't. Plus DPM's are just sexy-case in point, Feelgood.

P.S. Feelgood, I'm still waiting for that CD w/ the case study info.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I would say the biggest reason why Podiatry isn't an MD/DO residency is necessity. Like stated before, why would they create a new residency for MD/DO's when DPM's already fill that niche. I could understand if there was a gross shortage or a lack of service, but there isn't. Plus DPM's are just sexy-case in point, Feelgood.

P.S. Feelgood, I'm still waiting for that CD w/ the case study info.

There are no lawsuits in the VA system.

P.S, The CD is there.

 

[krabmas]

dentists started as part of the MD system and broke off sometime in the past to be dentists (DDS).

When medical schools began to be regulated chiropody was already separate and was never part of the MD process. It has stayed separate from the beginning and has evolved from a purely palliative profession (nails, calluses and corns) to a surgical and medical specialty.

 

[Drill2Fill]

dentists started as part of the MD system and broke off sometime in the past to be dentists (DDS).

When medical schools began to be regulated chiropody was already separate and was never part of the MD process. It has stayed separate from the beginning and has evolved from a purely palliative profession (nails, calluses and corns) to a surgical and medical specialty.

Sure about that?

 

[bdaddyjolley]

Sure about that?

I think Krab is right that originally Dentistry was a speciatly of MD and later broke off but I could be wrong.

 

[Drill2Fill]

Dentistry started in the barbers chair, the first school was started in 1840 in baltimore. In 1866 St. Louis Medical College became the first dental school in the world associated with a medical college.

 

[OSUDDS]

Later research in the same area found evidence of teeth having been drilled, dating back 9,000 years

if you want to get crazy techincal. or do you mean dentistry in the US?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Dentistry started in the barbers chair, the first school was started in 1840 in baltimore. In 1866 St. Louis Medical College became the first dental school in the world associated with a medical college.

Yes but the father of dentistry is Pierre Fauchard, a French physician. He wrote the "The Surgeon Dentist" in 1728. I agree that barbers where the prequel to dentists but also physicians. Then physicians started medical care including dentistry and then dentistry broke off.

 

[krabmas]

Sure about that?

yes I am.

If you are sure that I am wrong instead of just questioning me why don't you correct it?

here is my proof...

The Separation of Medicine and Dentistry

There is a group of health conscious Holistic or Biological Dentists who have filled in the void left by the medical profession over 150 years ago. Physician specialists, once known as Medical Dentists could no longer compete financially with the less trained craftsmen dentists performing dentistry on the masses. Eventually a split of dentistry from medicine resulted. That had the unfortunate consequence of the physicians ceasing to be taught in detail about the mouth, diminishing the dental relevance to health and relegating all repairs to the craftsmen dentists. The dentist, not being able to practice medicine, could only treat the teeth and related structures in isolation and not minister to the affected overall health of the patient. It's almost as if the mouth was not even considered to be connected to the same body that shared the skeleton, circulatory, nervous, or lymphatic systems. So what if the mouth is at the entrance to the respiratory and digestive tracts or in such close proximity to the brain, spinal nerves and master glands. What's the big deal that the sinuses sit on top of infected roots of teeth, or the muscles that control chewing, swallowing and facial expressions are used relentlessly? And is there any significance that each tooth sits on a different acupuncture meridian?

Dental disease—dental or medical
Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, June, 2005 by Andrea H. Brockman

There are other websites and articles written that elude to this as well.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Interesting...

 

[krabmas]

Dentistry started in the barbers chair, the first school was started in 1840 in baltimore. In 1866 St. Louis Medical College became the first dental school in the world associated with a medical college.

Dentistry was not started in the barber's chair. It was started by physicians the Papyrus Eber (sp?) papers discuss dentistry. But only the wealthy could afford actual dentists. The poor people with toothaches would go to the market place and have teeth pulled by self taught cheaper dental technitians if you will. These self taught "dentists" evolved and the medical dentists could not keep up (they charged too much). Medical schools stopped teaching the mouth and dentistry evolved into a completely separate profession similar to what podiatry is doing now. Ask a med student how much they learn about the foot.

 

[whiskers]

"Getting to" podiatry school isn't very difficult. Graduating is fairly tough. Graduating near the top of your class and landing a high quality residency is quite a great accomplishment.

I hate to say it, but with comments like that one above, you probably won't be very satisfied no matter what you do. You need to sit back and think about what you would like to do with your life. You are sounding like you're about 15 years old and expect success and respect to be handed to you. Go retake the MCAT and shadow some docs...

Necessity. There is no podiatry residency in MD/DO.

Internal med or ER will teach a cursory understanding of common foot pathologies (athlete's foot, ankle sprains, etc). Ortho residency will give a decent amount of ankle cases and some foot cases, but nowhere near the volume of today's DPM residencies. Vascular, trauma, general surgery, infectious dz, or derm would teach you how to do most emergency limb salvage stuff, treat osteomyelitis, or take out a tumor, etc, but again, nowhere near the volume of podiatric pathology that a DPM would get at a good residency. Radiology would give you some exposure to F&A imaging, but again, how are you supposed to see everything unless you are highly familiar with the pathologic processes as they manifest in the lower extremity?

Well, without a specialist, what's going to happen to the difficult cases? Glomus tumors are going to be a mystery. Congenital pediatric clubfoot is going to get operated on over and over. Toe surgeries will be rushed through because they don't reimberse nearly as much as those ACL reconstructs or hip fractures. Psoriasis will get treated with antifungals because it looks different on the foot and was misdiagnosed. Catch my drift? Anywhere there's room for improvement yet no resolution being made, that leaves a niche to be filled...

Most MD/DOs who have a good podiatrist on staff at their hospital or as a common referral will tell you they rely on him frequently and love it. They now have a specialist to send their diabetic foot care, foot surgery, etc to under the logical assumption that the patient will receive top level foot care because DPMs have the most education and experience in those pathologies and treatment modalities.

"Graduating near the top of your class and landing a high quality residency is quite a great accomplishment."

I can agree with that somewhat (by removing the word great),

But

I've seen some pretty creepy (in more ways than 1) behavior in the competition (that some knowingly don't participate in) to be validated and double-rubber-stamped as "smart."

 

[OSUDDS]

are you implying that getting a top residency is easy?

 

[narkotiks]

are you implying that getting a top residency is easy?

Are you implying that you know something (read: anything) about podiatric residencies?? talk to us about what it takes to land a top podiatric residency please.

 

[narkotiks]

Dentistry started in the barbers chair, the first school was started in 1840 in baltimore. In 1866 St. Louis Medical College became the first dental school in the world associated with a medical college.

Krab is right. i have researched and came up with the same scoop. sorry bro.

 

[OSUDDS]

Are you implying that you know something read: anything about podiatric residencies?? talk to us about what it takes to land a top podiatric residency please.

1- who are you talking to?
2- is it supposed to make sense?

 

[narkotiks]

1- who are you talking to?
2- is it supposed to make sense?

1-you. i want your insight as to what it takes to get a top residency, or even what the term "a top residency" means. just curious.
2-yes, it actually does make sense, but i took the liberty of adding parentheses for you anyway so that you better understand my question.

 

[Envision]

1- who are you talking to?
2- is it supposed to make sense?

It really didnt make sense. How are you doing OSUDDS? When and why did you switch to podiatry?

 

[OSUDDS]

noarkotikis- Whiskers made a statement making it sound easy to get a top residency. However, I've heard quite the opposite from Dr. Feelgood, etc.
So I was hoping whiskers could provide some info to back up his major BS.

Envision - I'm doing pretty good thanks. I'm glad someone else was as confused as I was about that statement. Anway, I get asked that question all the time. Since high school I knew that I wanted to specialize in medicine in some form and apply manual dexterity. I started out being big into dentistry (for some of the wrong reasons) and then in the last year or two I was introduced to podiatry and ever since I've felt its the best path for me.

Anyways, hopefully whiskers will come back sometime and enlighten everyone on the ease of getting a top residency. I'd love to hear this story.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

noarkotikis- Whiskers made a statement making it sound easy to get a top residency. However, I've heard quite the opposite from Dr. Feelgood, etc.
So I was hoping whiskers could provide some info to back up his major BS.

Envision - I'm doing pretty good thanks. I'm glad someone else was as confused as I was about that statement. Anway, I get asked that question all the time. Since high school I knew that I wanted to specialize in medicine in some form and apply manual dexterity. I started out being big into dentistry (for some of the wrong reasons) and then in the last year or two I was introduced to podiatry and ever since I've felt its the best path for me.

Anyways, hopefully whiskers will come back sometime and enlighten everyone on the ease of getting a top residency. I'd love to hear this story.

Have you ever considered osteopathic medicine? Their OMM philosophy is all about manual dexterity.

 

[OSUDDS]

i really haven't considered the osteopathic path at all. it seems that too much is left to chance when specializing after osteopathic school. thats just my personal preference, i like to know exactly what im getting into.

 

[narkotiks]

It really didnt make sense. How are you doing OSUDDS? When and why did you switch to podiatry?

what didn't make sense?

 

[whiskers]

OSUDDS.

Answering your question within the SUBJECT and CONTENT of my original post:

Being weird and creepy for a GPA is not an easy thing for me to do. In fact, it doesn't come natural at all.

Therefrore, when being weird and creepy are required to get ahead academically/personally, I am personally content with being average.


How about you? What are your boundries?

BTW, FYI, there are only two residency types 2yr and 3 yr, both surgical.

There is no such thing as a super pod residency.

 

[OSUDDS]

i know how the residencies are set up. thanks.

i was just wondering if you were going to ever answer that question, but i guess not.

 

[whiskers]

i know how the residencies are set up. thanks.

i was just wondering if you were going to ever answer that question, but i guess not.

I do not believe in the fallacy of superior residency training by an elite subpopulation of podiatrists.

The procedures learned at any residency are well established and performed by countless Podiatrists, as well as numerous other medical professionals, worldwide.

Do I think that there are there programs that have additional requirements like GPA, class rankings, LOOKS????, personality
and good-ol- boy connections for JR? Maybe.

Does that make a program elite?

No, not in my opinion.


As an aside, there was a post on this forum several years ago detailing a podiatrist that would insist that his aid would drape the windows to the OR B/C he supposedly didn't want the orthopod to steal his "technique." Your post reminded me of that.

 

[whiskers]

Plus, no residency program/pod school etc, in REAL LIFE, can turn frogs into princes or Princes into frogs.

 

[Feli]

I do not believe in the fallacy of superior residency training by an elite subpopulation of podiatrists.

The procedures learned at any residency are well established and performed by countless Podiatrists, as well as numerous other medical professionals, worldwide.

Do I think that there are there programs that have additional requirements like GPA, class rankings, LOOKS????, personality and good-ol- boy connections for JR? Maybe.

Does that make a program elite?

No, not in my opinion...

...no residency program/pod school etc, in REAL LIFE, can turn frogs into princes or Princes into frogs.

I am not in disagreement that there are more programs than just the "top 10," but you can't seriously be trying to imply that all PMS-36s are equal?

Do you agree that certain programs can provide training from highly respected DPMs which will be helpful in learning technique and networking? Do you believe that some programs get far more trauma, surgical diversity, patient variety, etc than others? Do some programs give unique peds, wound care, plastics, derm, etc training and pearls which may not be available elsewhere? Is it possible that some programs consistently have 100% pass rate on part III (PM Lexis) boards which may indicate higher intelligence and competence of the residents you are working with and learning from every day (no "frogs" in the first place)?

Personally, I want the best training possible. I want attendings and a director who are well respected and well published. I want fellow residents who are hard working and intelligent. I want a hospital where pods have plenty of surgerical diversity and good relations with other specialties. Finally, I want a location where I will enjoy my 3 years. I think that hard work, good grades, and networking during pod school will give me those options.

I believe that there are reasons for the fact that proportionately more well-known DPMs, residency directors, published authors, surgical pioneers, etc come from certain residencies and teaching hospitals. Why is nearly every Northlake alumni now a residency director, faculty at a pod school, or at least a highly successful DPM? Pure luck? If all programs were created equal (or close to it), then why are some so competitive while others are consistently unfilled?

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Plus, no residency program/pod school etc, in REAL LIFE, can turn frogs into princes or Princes into frogs.

Hahahaha

 

[krabmas]

i know how the residencies are set up. thanks.

i was just wondering if you were going to ever answer that question, but i guess not.

who are you talking to?

Are you aware that if you click on the "quote" button in the box that you want to reply to, your reply will have that message quoted in it and we will all then know who you are responding to.

Just a little forum curtousy/ clarity.

 

[OSUDDS]

who are you talking to?

Are you aware that if you click on the "quote" button in the box that you want to reply to, your reply will have that message quoted in it and we will all then know who you are responding to.

Just a little forum curtousy/ clarity.

yea... im always too lazy to click quote.

anyway i was trying to get a coherent response from the ever helpful whiskers, which i finally coaxed out of him by the third try or so

 

[whiskers]

I am not in disagreement that there are more programs than just the "top 10," but you can't seriously be trying to imply that all PMS-36s are equal?

Do you agree that certain programs can provide training from highly respected DPMs which will be helpful in learning technique and networking? Do you believe that some programs get far more trauma, surgical diversity, patient variety, etc than others? Do some programs give unique peds, wound care, plastics, derm, etc training and pearls which may not be available elsewhere? Is it possible that some programs consistently have 100% pass rate on part III (PM Lexis) boards which may indicate higher intelligence and competence of the residents you are working with and learning from every day (no "frogs" in the first place)?

Personally, I want the best training possible. I want attendings and a director who are well respected and well published. I want fellow residents who are hard working and intelligent. I want a hospital where pods have plenty of surgerical diversity and good relations with other specialties. Finally, I want a location where I will enjoy my 3 years. I think that hard work, good grades, and networking during pod school will give me those options.

I believe that there are reasons for the fact that proportionately more well-known DPMs, residency directors, published authors, surgical pioneers, etc come from certain residencies and teaching hospitals. Why is nearly every Northlake alumni now a residency director, faculty at a pod school, or at least a highly successful DPM? Pure luck? If all programs were created equal (or close to it), then why are some so competitive while others are consistently unfilled?

Residencies are very complex environments that can not be ranked based on two or three or four or even 10 artificially imposed criterion.

It is true that some residencies have stronger research goals and some have stronger surgical case loads, but even these are just a fraction of what a residency should teach.

All the podiatric research and surgical training in the world will not teach a student how to effectively deal with a patient who has had a procedure go awry and is considering litigation. How you communicate with a patient after you screwed up can really make or break your malpractice ins rates and save or ruin your local reputation as a podiatric physician.

Or how to deal with a prominent pillar of your local community who could tarnish your professional reputation if you get argumentative and defensive with him/her.

Our long term individual success, as future Podiatrists, relies less on academic acheievement, journal clubs, professional organizations pals etc and more on interpersonal skills and personal REPUTATIONS within our perspective communities.

In the real world, folks won't even know or care where pod X was trained. What they will care about is what their friends/family/and their primary provider say about them.

 

[narkotiks]

Residencies are very complex environments that can not be ranked based on two or three or four or even 10 artificially imposed criterion.

It is true that some residencies have stronger research goals and some have stronger surgical case loads, but even these are just a fraction of what a residency should teach.

All the podiatric research and surgical training in the world will not teach a student how to effectively deal with a patient who has had a procedure go awry and is considering litigation. How you communicate with a patient after you screwed up can really make or break your malpractice ins rates and save or ruin your local reputation as a podiatric physician.

Or how to deal with a prominent pillar of your local community who could tarnish your professional reputation if you get argumentative and defensive with him/her.

Our long term individual success, as future Podiatrists, relies less on academic acheievement, journal clubs, professional organizations pals etc and more on interpersonal skills and personal REPUTATIONS within our perspective communities.

In the real world, folks won't even know or care where pod X was trained. What they will care about is what their friends/family/and their primary provider say about them.

True to a point. in any field of professionalism exists a certain percentage of elitists, or those who put more stock into names, traditions, certs, etc.. harvard mentality is great for these types.

i have had a great deal of surgery in my life, and all but one doctor came from what many would rank as "average" schools. i am still walking and things are fine. in other words, those who are average have done me just fine.

when a person makes it through a "top" program, as unfortunate as it may seem for some, more options typically become available for that individual. i don't think pod med is any different than a law or mba program in regards to that. since more will go through what some may consider average, building a credible reputation will be very important. it seems that maybe those who come from a "top" residency may tout such, and bring with them a reputation inherently received. it is then a matter of keeping it untarnished.

my opinion is that who you know is often times more important than what you know.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Residencies are very complex environments that can not be ranked based on two or three or four or even 10 artificially imposed criterion.

It is true that some residencies have stronger research goals and some have stronger surgical case loads, but even these are just a fraction of what a residency should teach.

All the podiatric research and surgical training in the world will not teach a student how to effectively deal with a patient who has had a procedure go awry and is considering litigation. How you communicate with a patient after you screwed up can really make or break your malpractice ins rates and save or ruin your local reputation as a podiatric physician.

Or how to deal with a prominent pillar of your local community who could tarnish your professional reputation if you get argumentative and defensive with him/her.

Our long term individual success, as future Podiatrists, relies less on academic acheievement, journal clubs, professional organizations pals etc and more on interpersonal skills and personal REPUTATIONS within our perspective communities.

In the real world, folks won't even know or care where pod X was trained. What they will care about is what their friends/family/and their primary provider say about them.

What I think is sad is you are looking at your training from a malpractice view. I think you need to rethink a thing or two. You should be looking at it as what tools do you have for your patient. A residency will give you the tools for when things go awry. Have you only been in surgeries where everything is great? I've been a few surgeries with residents and attendings that have not gone as planned. That is what separates a physician and a technician, when the pooh hits the fan.

I would agree that reputations and reliability is more important and that a man/womans character will be the defining characteristic is success. But I cannot ignore the fact that reputation is many times based on skill and training. So you comments would contradict themselves. But I do agree that is you said, I trained at Tucker people will be like where the heck is that.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

my opinion is that who you know is often times more important than what you know.

Big time and sometime the big programs have big names to help you in the future.

 

[whiskers]

Big time and sometime the big programs have big names to help you in the future.

This is where I disagree.

Podiatry is one of the smallest professions in the world. I'd wager that what is big in the podiatry world is almost unknown to the rest of the world, even the medical realm where we practice.

I think that as students we can become entrenched in this artificial world we've created that revolves around podiatry and it's better known personalities (from within). I see plenty of students who play the "student game" at the expense of being themselves in order to promote their own perceived best interests. Strategic ingratiation seems to be an art with some, and many are quite the chamelions.

A healthy substitute, in my opinion, would be to have healthy interactions with both podiatrists as well as other medical providers to keep life and medicine in perspective. Building relations outside the podiatric community in my opinion is equally important for our selves and the profession(which is what some of the schools seem to encourage with their integrated DO/MD and DPM programs).

Plus, I don't think many podiatrists are going to be sending another pod their patients.

 

[whiskers]

What I think is sad is you are looking at your training from a malpractice view. I think you need to rethink a thing or two. You should be looking at it as what tools do you have for your patient. A residency will give you the tools for when things go awry. Have you only been in surgeries where everything is great? I've been a few surgeries with residents and attendings that have not gone as planned. That is what separates a physician and a technician, when the pooh hits the fan.

I would agree that reputations and reliability is more important and that a man/womans character will be the defining characteristic is success. But I cannot ignore the fact that reputation is many times based on skill and training. So you comments would contradict themselves. But I do agree that is you said, I trained at Tucker people will be like where the heck is that.

Very good points. None of which I disagree with.

I just can't agree with the ranking of programs based on what type of students they admit on paper.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I just can't agree with the ranking of programs based on what type of students they admit on paper.

I definitely agree with this point. That is why I do not let SDN or rumors sway my opinion on where I would like to be.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

This is where I disagree.

Podiatry is one of the smallest professions in the world. I'd wager that what is big in the podiatry world is almost unknown to the rest of the world, even the medical realm where we practice.

I think that as students we can become entrenched in this artificial world we've created that revolves around podiatry and it's better known personalities (from within). I see plenty of students who play the "student game" at the expense of being themselves in order to promote their own perceived best interests. Strategic ingratiation seems to be an art with some, and many are quite the chamelions.

A healthy substitute, in my opinion, would be to have healthy interactions with both podiatrists as well as other medical providers to keep life and medicine in perspective. Building relations outside the podiatric community in my opinion is equally important for our selves and the profession(which is what some of the schools seem to encourage with their integrated DO/MD and DPM programs).

Plus, I don't think many podiatrists are going to be sending another pod their patients.

I agree with this point also. I don't think that big program big names just means podiatry. Look at the number of programs that have great rotations with plastics, infectious diseases, and orthopaedics. Rotations with Dr. Dror Paley, Dr. Ponsetti, Dr. Sig Hansen are just a few very famous doctors that people can work with in residency.

I do agree that post-grad relations with make you more money and are probably much more important. But I just can't ignore the fact that a phone call from someone you meet in residency might get you a job that leads to these post-grad relations.

 

[narkotiks]

This is where I disagree.

Podiatry is one of the smallest professions in the world. I'd wager that what is big in the podiatry world is almost unknown to the rest of the world, even the medical realm where we practice.

I think that as students we can become entrenched in this artificial world we've created that revolves around podiatry and it's better known personalities (from within). I see plenty of students who play the "student game" at the expense of being themselves in order to promote their own perceived best interests. Strategic ingratiation seems to be an art with some, and many are quite the chamelions.

A healthy substitute, in my opinion, would be to have healthy interactions with both podiatrists as well as other medical providers to keep life and medicine in perspective. Building relations outside the podiatric community in my opinion is equally important for our selves and the profession(which is what some of the schools seem to encourage with their integrated DO/MD and DPM programs).

Plus, I don't think many podiatrists are going to be sending another pod their patients.

Fair enough. one fact remains however: should you chose to exceed in this profession, you need to treat it like it is everything, meaning rubbin those shoulders with the right people, etc. it doesn't matter how you network, what is important is that you do. if that means suckin as s to everyone bigger than you, fine. if it means being yourself to a point where you are still tolerable by those greater than yourself, thats fine too. it isn't just podiatry where this happens, it is EVERYWHERE!!! you must be adaptable, not fake, adaptable and be able to sell yourself.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Ask a med student how much they learn about the foot.

Much, much more than they learn about teeth. Which may be why podiatry has a difficult time being viewed as a mainstream health practice (although it certainly is). There are MD/DO surgeons that operate on the foot and ankle, and there are MD/DO family physicians that treat foot and ankle wounds, neuropathy, etc. But there are no MD/DOs that treat teeth.

So perhaps the problem, at least when related to podiatry, is that MD/DOs learn too much about the feet (or just enough to lull the lay public to sleep and not refer to podiatrists). Lots of generalizations in my argument, but it has some valid points.

 

[Podman]

Much, much more than they learn about teeth. Which may be why podiatry has a difficult time being viewed as a mainstream health practice (although it certainly is). There are MD/DO surgeons that operate on the foot and ankle, and there are MD/DO family physicians that treat foot and ankle wounds, neuropathy, etc. But there are no MD/DOs that treat teeth.

So perhaps the problem, at least when related to podiatry, is that MD/DOs learn too much about the feet (or just enough to lull the lay public to sleep and not refer to podiatrists). Lots of generalizations in my argument, but it has some valid points.

in comparison to knowledge about the teeth - you're 100% right. However, you are making a TON of generalizations in your argument, with all due respect of course. Yes foot and ankle surgeons MD's do the surgeries, and family doctors will attempt to diagnose some - keyword is some - of the foot and ankle pathology. But, no specialist is really trained for entire comprehensive treatment of the lower extremity but the DPM. As a student on clerkships, and one who went through months of podiatric-rotations in third year, I've seen how easy it is for non-DPM's to misdiagnose biomechanical conditions and put the patient on the wrong treatment plan as a result. We certainly don't have exclusiveness to the lower extremity but with proper and consistent training, we attract patients and physicians to providing the most comprehensive treatment possible.

The chances of a well-trained DPM to misdiagnose a lower extremity condition is significantly lower than that of a non-Foot and ankle specialist MD. I'm not referring to just surgical cases, but common biomechanical disorders, and neuropathies as well. A family doc who doesn't really see alot of foot ankle pathology is less likely to accurately diagnose a hallux limitus, or a morton's neuroma - not because s/he lacks the knowledge in any regard, but because they are not exactly foot and ankle specialists and don't see these cases on a regular basis as we do. And I'm just using simple, "bread and butter" cases for podiatrists here - I can get into lower extremity sarcomas, viral, and diabetic infections as well - again, these aren't conditions exclusively diagnosed or dealt with by DPM's, but they are more likely to be handled by a foot and ankle specialist/expert, including DPMs.