I'm having a hard time with OMM...

[Jinxapotato]

Seriously tho, just had cranial lecture today....It contradicts everything anatomy told us last year...

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Seriously tho, just had cranial lecture today....It contradicts everything anatomy told us last year...

I think the worst part of any lecture on cranial is not the actual cranial bit, but the sheer amount of time spent on distorting science and fact to attempt to validate it.

 

[Mr Roboto]

I think the worst part of any lecture on cranial is not the actual cranial bit, but the sheer amount of time spent on distorting science and fact to attempt to validate it.

A second year in lab last week used cranial as an example of how much better our palpatory skills will be by next year. We'll be able to discern movement of cranial bones.

 

[jw3600]

A second year in lab last week used cranial as an example of how much better our palpatory skills will be by next year. We'll be able to discern movement of cranial bones.

That second year is a kool aid drinking patsy.

 

[Mr Roboto]

That second year is a kool aid drinking patsy.

Oh yeah. I tried to probe further, but when she said "sometimes with OMM we don't really know how it works, we just have to trust that it does" things appeared beyond repair.

 

[GUH]

Oh yeah. I tried to probe further, but when she said "sometimes with OMM we don't really know how it works, we just have to trust that it does" things appeared beyond repair.

While I understand skepticism about cranial, in all fairness there are a lot of effective drugs for which we do not understand the mechanism.

 

[jw3600]

While I understand skepticism about cranial, in all fairness there are a lot of effective drugs for which we do not understand the mechanism.

...but they have proven effectiveness. So we use them in spite of not understanding the mechanism. Cranial hasn't been proven to be effective (not even remotely) and it makes as much sense scientifically as the flat earth theory. What are you talking about man?

 

[GUH]

...but they have proven effectiveness. So we use them in spite of not understanding the mechanism. Cranial hasn't been proven to be effective (not even remotely) and it makes as much sense scientifically as the flat earth theory. What are you talking about man?

The quote was not specifically about cranial.

 

[Mr Roboto]

The quote was not specifically about cranial.

It was in response to me questioning whether cranial bones could be manipulated, and why that would affect anything. So she did mean it about cranial specifically.

 

[jw3600]

The quote was not specifically about cranial.

Yes, it was.

Edit: Regardless. Why don't you shed some light on the study of Chapman's points? Honestly, talking to OMM fanboys feels the exact same as talking to most anti-vaxxers.

 

[ortnakas]

I think the worst part of any lecture on cranial is not the actual cranial bit, but the sheer amount of time spent on distorting science and fact to attempt to validate it.

But the best part of cranial is that you're pretty much guaranteed a 20 minute nap during lab... so there's a plus.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

But the best part of cranial is that you're pretty much guaranteed a 20 minute nap during lab... so there's a plus.

I jolted awake maybe like 3 times in lab. My partner was like, I get why they think they notice movement lol.

 

[ortnakas]

I jolted awake maybe like 3 times in lab. My partner was like, I get why they think they notice movement lol.

Honestly I think you're probably feeling your own pulse. MAYBE you're feeling the patient's pulse from the temporal arteries or something. I refuse to believe it's the CRI or bone movement.

Edited: I'm exhausted and forgot the temporal arteries were a thing

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

While I understand skepticism about cranial, in all fairness there are a lot of effective drugs for which we do not understand the mechanism.

True, but we really cannot compare the utility in being taught a still in research drug that is commonly used for the only effective tx of a major discrete disorder(s) and a set of techniques that may not be more effective than already existing therapies and techniques. As a whole this epitomizes a significant amount of why many people tune out OMT. They're willing to learn it if you can provide evidence for it. Like a lot of ME and lower and upper back stuff I'm fine with, but other stuff I'm just like why am I rubbing their hands exactly?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Honestly I think you're probably feeling your own pulse. MAYBE you're feeling the patient's pulse (I know there's not any major arteries in the cranial palpation spots, but your scalp has enough vasculature I could buy this explanation). I refuse to believe it's the CRI or bone movement.

That's all I feel, temporal arteries and such. If I feel the head moving like they explain I'm sending them over to neurosurgery.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Oh yeah. I tried to probe further, but when she said "sometimes with OMM we don't really know how it works, we just have to trust that it does" things appeared beyond repair.

Honestly my entire class essentially laughs when ever we have physicians come in and state that they've never used OMT in their practice. I cannot imagine having a class of really deep believers in cranial.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yes, it was.

Edit: Regardless. Why don't you shed some light on the study of Chapman's points? Honestly, talking to OMM fanboys feels the exact same as talking to most anti-vaxxers.

I've always been curious whether ppl believe in this all due to some sense of tribalism i.e if we can't agree to agree, then how should we expect others to, or whether it's just peer pressure.

 

[GUH]

Yes, it was.

Edit: Regardless. Why don't you shed some light on the study of Chapman's points? Honestly, talking to OMM fanboys feels the exact same as talking to most anti-vaxxers.

No; it wasn't.

 

[shadowlightfox]

But the best part of cranial is that you're pretty much guaranteed a 20 minute nap during lab... so there's a plus.

It's a plus, until you realize you'll be quized on it next week.

 

[ortnakas]

It's a plus, until you realize you'll be quized on it next week.

When you get to cranial you'll realize why being awake during lab the week prior wouldn't have helped.

 

[wxman393]

We are lucky to have more younger docs that teach our OMM. They understand what's going on and have not drank the kool aid. All of them readily admit that they don't use anything but ME/myofascial techniques in clinic and don't spend time on Chapman's, other than saying to read Saverese for boards.


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[hallowmann]

I've always been curious whether ppl believe in this all due to some sense of tribalism i.e if we can't agree to agree, then how should we expect others to, or whether it's just peer pressure.

Straight up met a real kool-aid drinking student the other day. Started talking about feeling and "controlling" vital forces and stuff. The guy didn't even understand basic OMT techniques and how they could work conceptually (MSK and physiology stuff), but kept acting like he did or saying you just have to "feel" it. Seriously guys, I've made it clear I'm into OMT on here, and I plan to use some of it when it comes to MSK and lymphatic issues in practice, but this guy was crazy.

I wonder if its because they went in already believing in that stuff, or its just a way to justify going DO or something.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Straight up met a real kool-aid drinking student the other day. Started talking about feeling and "controlling" vital forces and stuff. The guy didn't even understand basic OMT techniques and how they could work conceptually (MSK and physiology stuff), but kept acting like he did or saying you just have to "feel" it. Seriously guys, I've made it clear I'm into OMT on here, and I plan to use some of it when it comes to MSK and lymphatic issues in practice, but this guy was crazy.

I wonder if its because they went in already believing in that stuff, or its just a way to justify going DO or something.

There's a difference between being into OMT, I personally find it occasionally an interesting topic, though not as much as my ailing back frankly. And being a believer in woo and magic. ME does not require accepting magic to practice, HVLA by in large does not require suspending disbelief to be accepted, some techniques simply ask the practitioner to accept far too much at once without any real evidence.

And I would say that it's a personality thing. People in this country are very often brought up on the premise of accepting things just because they are done that way and that questioning it constitutes potentially detrimental effects.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Straight up met a real kool-aid drinking student the other day. Started talking about feeling and "controlling" vital forces and stuff. The guy didn't even understand basic OMT techniques and how they could work conceptually (MSK and physiology stuff), but kept acting like he did or saying you just have to "feel" it. Seriously guys, I've made it clear I'm into OMT on here, and I plan to use some of it when it comes to MSK and lymphatic issues in practice, but this guy was crazy.

I wonder if its because they went in already believing in that stuff, or its just a way to justify going DO or something.

We had this guy who came out of lab telling everyone he felt exactly how the cranium moved beneath his hands...So yeah, kool-aid drinkers everywhere

 

[shadowlightfox]

We had this guy who came out of lab telling everyone he felt exactly how the cranium moved beneath his hands...So yeah, kool-aid drinkers everywhere

Out of curiosity, why is it called "kool-aid drinkers"?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Who knows, maybe there is a genetic subset of people with Spiderman level finger tactile sense. But for those of us who have damaged quality hands, we can't feel crap.

 

[deleted407021]

Out of curiosity, why is it called "kool-aid drinkers"?

It's a dark joke in reference to the People's Temple mass suicide at a settlement called Jonestown in the late 70s.