Immunizations and You ...

[gimmeabreak]

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I don't think you have to worry about being denied admission for the reason that you refuse vaccinations. It sounds like you are the type of person who will fight your way through that. However, you need a reality check on how to communicate with other thinkers, especially those who are also interested in becoming a part of the medical community. Do you really think calling others idiots and pretending you know EVERYTHING about a subject will get you anywhere?? Interviewers and Admissions Committees can smell a cocky applicant from a mile away, so i really advise you to reflect on how to LISTEN to other points of view instead of already deciding that what they have to say must be wrong (since they are idiots who don't know what they are talking about after all). A doctor who won't COLLABORATE with other doctors is the LAST person I would see for my own health care.

 

[Pemberley]

I'm suddenly feeling better about the low admissions rate to med school (and that's a big statement, as I'm running a non-negligible risk of rejection myself this year!)

-Pemberley

 

[mshheaddoc]

Additionally, you ARE NOT CLAIMING freedom of religion. You don't believe in immunization.

I think you need to realize your rights. As well with the modifications with JACHO and OSHA you are running into restrictions in protection of public health. I thought I posted that article stating NLSA in reference to "public health" and the law. 80% of the cases were in favor of public health.

You have to remember that. YOUR health without vaccinations, threatens our health. If you can't acknowledge that, then I don't know what else to say. We may be exposed to carcinogens, but at least those carcinogens protect use from disease.

And your death rates and all that other BS are such a small percentage as compared to the total immunized. I don't even need to quote the stats bc you obviously know CDC back and forth.

You are skewing your statements trying to convert "health professional" students. It won't work. Science over skepticism.

 

[ForeverStudent]

because it's a free country, .

I am not sure what country you live in in, but I am in the United States of America.
I know my rights. Harvard already wants me, not that I would ever attend, but it's cool.
So, please, quit acting like you have a clue about what you are talking about.

I have some of the best law firms at my back if any stu-pid school wants to try and reject me because of vaccinations. 🙄

 

[Risa]

That is garbage your grandpa would spout.

Oh no she DIDN'T!

 

[ForeverStudent]

YOUR health without vaccinations, threatens our health.

Back that up with some facts! I already proved you wrong!
Maybe you should go drink somewhere and leave us alone.

 

[Law2Doc]

Additionally, you ARE NOT CLAIMING freedom of religion. You don't believe in immunization.

That's a good point -- citing autism issues pretty soundly undermines any claim that his/her objection is religious in nature. 👍

 

[mshheaddoc]

I am not sure what country you live in in, but I am in the United States of America.
I know my rights. Harvard already wants me, not that I would ever attend, but it's cool.
So, please, quit acting like you have a clue about what you are talking about.

I have some of the best law firms at my back if any stu-pid school wants to try and reject me because of vaccinations. 🙄

Ok, before you didn't even know anything about it, now you are saying you have harvard and law schools on your back about the vaccinations?

THE LAW FIRMS CAN NOT DO ANYTHING WITH UNIVERSITY INSTITUTIONS if they are not discriminating you. Its not an issue of discrimination. Its an ISSUE OF PUBLIC HEALTH. You need to learn to distinguish the law from public saftety regulations set forward by OSHA and other governing bodies.

 

[DarkFark]

I am not sure what country you live in in, but I am in the United States of America.
I know my rights. Harvard already wants me, not that I would ever attend, but it's cool.
So, please, quit acting like you have a clue about what you are talking about.

and then we took a trip off the deep end.

I discovered that you don't argue so much as you continually repeat the phrase "get a clue"

 

[Law2Doc]

I am not sure what country you live in in, but I am in the United States of America.
I know my rights. Harvard already wants me, not that I would ever attend, but it's cool.
So, please, quit acting like you have a clue about what you are talking about.

I have some of the best law firms at my back if any stu-pid school wants to try and reject me because of vaccinations. 🙄

LOL.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Back that up with some facts! I already proved you wrong!
Maybe you should go drink somewhere and leave us alone.

Herd immunity ... check it out with CDC. Take microbiology a well.

What a troll ... this is getting interesting.

Oh and you didn't prove **** but thanks for boosting your ego.

 

[ForeverStudent]

I don't think you have to worry about being denied admission for the reason that you refuse vaccinations. It sounds like you are the type of person who will fight your way through that. However, you need a reality check on how to communicate with other thinkers, especially those who are also interested in becoming a part of the medical community. Do you really think calling others idiots and pretending you know EVERYTHING about a subject will get you anywhere?? Interviewers and Admissions Committees can smell a cocky applicant from a mile away, so i really advise you to reflect on how to LISTEN to other points of view instead of already deciding that what they have to say must be wrong (since they are idiots who don't know what they are talking about after all). A doctor who won't COLLABORATE with other doctors is the LAST person I would see for my own health care.

Sorry about my writing. Believe me, I am don't "talk" this way IRL.
I am just amazed at how "behind" everyone still is, especially with this break out of the Mumps.

 

[DarkFark]

Herd immunity ... check it out with CDC. Take microbiology a well.

What a troll ... this is getting interesting.

unfortunately, it also means this could get locked real soon. hey, at least we had fun while it lasted.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I don't understand why y'all continue to fight about this. ForeverStudent has read a few studies and seen some anecdotal evidence and has made her decision, regardless of the prevalency of that opinion in the scientific and medical community.

Is there risk to having your kids vaccinated? Sure. Is there risk to not having your kids vaccinated? Sure. To each their own. She can deal with whatever legal issues if/when necessary.

I just know that as a health care worker, I'm getting all the damn vaccinations I can. Like hell I'm getting Hep B from some random needlestick.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Nah, I'm hoping someone will post about other immunizations ... or we could talk amongst ourselves ... like what vaccine do you think is worthless?

Should we still give the polio vaccine?

 

[Risa]

Harvard already wants me, not that I would ever attend

OH NO SHE DIDN'T!

first pari pari's poor granddad and now this?

lynch the troll

 

[ForeverStudent]

Ok, before you didn't even know anything about it, now you are saying you have harvard and law schools on your back about the vaccinations?

THE LAW FIRMS CAN NOT DO ANYTHING WITH UNIVERSITY INSTITUTIONS if they are not discriminating you. Its not an issue of discrimination. Its an ISSUE OF PUBLIC HEALTH. You need to learn to distinguish the law from public saftety regulations set forward by OSHA and other governing bodies.

Why do you care whether I get in or not, anyways?
Oh, maybe because you can't back up what you are saying with real facts.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Sorry about my writing. Believe me, I am don't "talk" this way IRL.
I am just amazed at how "behind" everyone still is, especially with this break out of the Mumps.

Maybe we aren't behind, maybe we are just informed. You have read a few things and made your decision. I read a few things and made MY decision. Where's the difference?

Guess what? I live in the midwest and I know that I have a 95% chance of NOT getting the mumps ... what can you say?

 

[Law2Doc]

Nah, I'm hoping someone will post about other immunizations ... or we could talk amongst ourselves ... like what vaccine do you think is worthless?

Should we still give the polio vaccine?

The oral polio actually tasted pretty good. If I had to keep one, I would keep that one. Yummy!

 

[gimmeabreak]

i'm kinda new on the forums, what in the world does Troll and Bump mean anyhow?? sorry its unrelated to your discussion but i've been wondering
😀

 

[ForeverStudent]

Like hell I'm getting Hep B from some random needlestick.

But you are willing to have it injected into your body? How does that make any logical sense?

 

[mshheaddoc]

Why do you care whether I get in or not, anyways?
Oh, maybe because you can't back up what you are saying with real facts.

HELLO! CAN YOU READ? Did you not see all the links I posted previously? Would you like for me to copy and paste google results on here? I gave you a book to read ... I could list all the pubmed articles if you'd like.


Additionally, I posted links for you about state regulations as well from med schools. I don't care if you get in or not ...
You are just personalizing your attacks and demanding information when you haven't really given anything concrete in your studies except your numbers of 1 out of 14000.

 

[Law2Doc]

i'm kinda new on the forums, what in the world does Troll and Bump mean anyhow?? sorry its unrelated to your discussion but i've been wondering
😀

Both can be found on Wickipedia.

 

[DarkFark]

i'm kinda new on the forums, what in the world does Troll and Bump mean anyhow?? sorry its unrelated to your discussion but i've been wondering
😀

A troll is someone who writes a bunch of fallacious, racist, sexist, and/or radical garbage for the purpose of getting attention and causing a ruckus.

A bump is a post made to deliberately send a thread to the top of a message board.

 

[Risa]

i'm kinda new on the forums, what in the world does Troll and Bump mean anyhow?? sorry its unrelated to your discussion but i've been wondering
😀

check out urbandictionary.com for this and more!

 

[Hernandez]

Those numbers are way too high for my comfort.
We now have antibiotics, IV fluids, etc to help treat any complications we might get from the actual disease, IF, we were unsanitary enough to catch it in the first place.

link
* In the US: The practice of administering 2 doses of live-attenuated measles vaccine to children to prevent school outbreaks of measles was implemented after the last major US outbreak in 1991. This practice interrupted the transmission of indigenous MV in the United States by 1993 and reduced incidence of measles to an historic low (<0.5 cases per million persons) by 1997-1999. Despite the highest recorded immunization rates in history, young children who are not appropriately vaccinated may experience more than a 60-fold increase in risk of disease due to exposure to imported measles cases in the United States.

* Internationally: Approximately 30 million measles cases are reported annually. Most reported cases are from Africa. In 1998, the reported cases of measles per 100,000 total population reported to the World Health Organization was 1.6 in the Americas, 8.2 in Europe, 11.1 in the Eastern Mediterranean region, 4.2 in South East Asia, 5.0 in the Western Pacific region, and 61.7 in Africa.​

Frequency:

* In the US: Prior to the vaccine, about 50% of children contracted mumps. Except for an outbreak in 1986-1987, the incidence has been low. About 1500 cases are reported each year, down from the almost 150,000 reported cases per year before the vaccine.

* Internationally: The incidence depends on the extent of vaccination in the region. Classic mumps worldwide occurs in children younger than 15 years in 85% of cases.

Mortality/Morbidity: Mortality is rare and usually occurs in patients older than 19 years. In patients who develop the rare complication of meningoencephalitis, the mortality rate is about 2%. Fatal mumps nephritis and myocarditis has been reported.

* Mumps infection during the first trimester of pregnancy can cause spontaneous abortion in up to 27% of cases.​

Some 20–40 million cases of pertussis occur worldwide each year, 90% of which are found in developing countries. About 200 000–400 000 of these patients, mostly infants, die from the disease​

as opposed to

Young children can die from pertussis and 13 children died in the United States in 2003. Most deaths occur among unvaccinated children or children too young to be vaccinated. (out of 5000 cases that year)​

you're the one who is arguing semantics and anecdotally, it is your job to prove the overwhelming evidence that is contrary to your opinion as false.

 

[ForeverStudent]

Maybe we aren't behind, maybe we are just informed. You have read a few things and made your decision. I read a few things and made MY decision. Where's the difference?

Guess what? I live in the midwest and I know that I have a 95% chance of NOT getting the mumps ... what can you say?

I have been researching vaccinations for ten years, I have traveled from South America to South Africa, from Russia to Australia, Japan to 48 of the United States.
I actually have done the research, not just read a few articles.

 

[Law2Doc]

But you are willing to have it injected into your body? How does that make any logical sense?

So obviously science is not one of your strong points. Any hobbies?

 

[isobel]

lordee.... someone on like the first page asked about TB vaccines...

almost anyone born in a 3rd world country (including myself) will have gotten the TB and smallpox vaccines and you can tell by the scars on their shoulders (although kenyans and one more group get one of those vaccinations in the lower arm).

 

[deleted77919]

Those numbers are way too high for my comfort.
We now have antibiotics, IV fluids, etc to help treat any complications we might get from the actual disease, IF, we were unsanitary enough to catch it in the first place.

Most vaccinations (not all) are against viruses for which antibiotics aren't going to be very helpful. Have you ever succesfully treated polio? What about meningitis?

Fortunately for people who do not believe in vaccines you still get fairly well protected, it's a free-rider issue. So long as everyone else gets vaccinated, you get much of the benefit of vaccination.

Most vaccination programs aren't really designed to protect an individual, they protect the community from catastrophe. (I.e. vaccinate people likely to spread disease).

 

[mshheaddoc]

But you are willing to have it injected into your body? How does that make any logical sense?

Obviously we are .... why are you asking the obvious'?

 

[ForeverStudent]

I've lived in a developing country & seen 1st had the damage not having vaccines can do.

According to the CDC and WHO, a lot of that is from unsanitary conditions and lack of access to clean water.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Man, and they were pretty close to wiping out wild-type polio, too. But then some Muslim religious leaders in Nigeria got it in their heads that the polio vaccinations were a US plot to poison them or something, and it's flared back up again. The number of wild-type cases had dropped into the hundreds per year, but now it's back up into the low thousands, last I checked.

I can't really see how basically eradicating polio is anything but a good thing, but hey, what do I know.

 

[PariPari]

Devloping country doesn't automatically equal poor sanitary conditions

I have been researching vaccinations for ten years, I have traveled from South America to South Africa, from Russia to Australia, Japan to 48 of the United States.
I actually have done the research, not just read a few articles.

You did clinical trials? with six kids?

IV fluids & antibiotics won't work for most diseases that vaccines are used for b/c w/ they're viruses & the antibiotic doesn't target them the same way it does the bacteria. The antibiotics can be used to prevent secondary infections like pneumonia, but not the actual viral infection.
there aren't many effective anti-viral meds, which is why vaccines are so heavily relied on

 

[gimmeabreak]

lordee.... someone on like the first page asked about TB vaccines...

almost anyone born in a 3rd world country (including myself) will have gotten the TB and smallpox vaccines and you can tell by the scars on their shoulders (although kenyans and one more group get one of those vaccinations in the lower arm).

Yeah i was born in Saudi Arabia and when I was 14 volunteered at the hospital here in the US. I had to take that skin test, and of course it came out positive: I had NO clue i was vaccinized for TB when i was a baby! Lets just say I had a but of a mental breakdown thinking I had TB. HAHAHA fun times!!

 

[PariPari]

Yeah i was born in Saudi Arabia and when I was 14 volunteered at the hospital here in the US. I had to take that skin test, and of course it came out positive: I had NO clue i was vaccinized for TB when i was a baby! Lets just say I had a but of a mental breakdown thinking I had TB. HAHAHA fun times!!

my cousin was born overseas & got the BCG vaccine & she had to test for a job & she was positive & her parents had lost her shot record so they were like You've got TB & she had to take isonizid [sic] & get a chest x-ray & show her birth certificate

 

[mshheaddoc]

I have been researching vaccinations for ten years, I have traveled from South America to South Africa, from Russia to Australia, Japan to 48 of the United States.
I actually have done the research, not just read a few articles.

What qualification do you have for research? 😕 You didn't even understand that malaria was NOT a virus requiring a vaccine? Its one of the biggest killers in 3rd world countries. Forgive me if I have trouble taking what you claim with a grain of salt.

I have already conceded once with you, I don't grovel. I stated many things change in science and I hope we find what is best for the patient ... take the DTaP results for example (as you mentioned earlier). Now Japan and the US have switched.

You are preaching to a group of people who have had all their immunizations with NO problems, remember who you audience is when you are trying to get your point across.

 

[ForeverStudent]

Guess what? I live in the midwest and I know that I have a 95% chance of NOT getting the mumps ... what can you say?

I have a 100% chance of not getting the Mumps. I have full immunity. I have had my blood titres done. 😉

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Guys guys guys. Relax. 74 people have voted in this poll. 1 person has said No to vaccinations. 1. Uno. I think it is pretty obvious who that is. I don't think you have to worry about massive numbers of health care providers running around unvaccinated. It's OK. Everybody breathe.

 

[Law2Doc]

Everybody breathe.

Just don't breathe on foreverstudent or you might give her TB.

 

[mshheaddoc]

According to the CDC and WHO, a lot of that is from unsanitary conditions and lack of access to clean water.

Even pertussis?

Before the availability of pertussis vaccine, pertussis was one of the most common childhood diseases and a major cause of death in children in the United States. Since widespread use of the vaccine began, cases have decreased by 99 percent, but about 5,000 to 7,000 cases per year are still reported. In unimmunized populations in the world, pertussis remains a major health problem in children and causes an estimated 300,000 deaths per year.

http://www.dhpe.org/infect/Per.html

That is a contributing factor but your right, vaccines can't help with that because they have carcinogens and exposing ourselves to these horrible viruses/bacteria are bad. 🙄

 

[gimmeabreak]

OK this forum's gotten annoying, i'm sick of the grandpa dissing and hair-pulling. If you don't want to get immunized, go for it. I don't buy it, and there is no way in hell i'd put my children in that kind of danger when i'm a mom - nor would i advise patients to do so. But whatever, like someone else said...to each his own. But i'm personally sick of hearing you demean others as you brag about how wonderful you are and how much you know (OMG maybe Harvard will come crawling on its hands and knees BEGGING you to join their med school!! maybe all the other schools will get a clue and beg for you as well!) Peace.

FOCKER - OUT!

 

[Hernandez]

Natural immunity is way better than expecting a 2 day old infant to be able to fight off 3-6 diseases being injected into their bodies.

Please, use your brains, we are medical students, not idiots.

oh a swing and a miss. Some of us are medical students, you are not, please don't try to elevate yourself to our level of schooling to yours. Now a 2 day old infant does not have a working (for all practical) immune system. and the only coverage they have is from IgA antibodies which are secreted through milk and the IgM which crossed the placenta from the mothers immune system.

And the Hep B vaccine given at birth, isn't a live virus, it's a inactive viral antigen. Ya can't get sick from just an antigen.

Then the DTP given at 6 months are not live or even attenuated bacteria, so no way to get sick there,

Hib is a bacterial polysaccharide (a component of a cell wall for you pre-med likes) which is made more active by being bound to a protein. PCV (pneumococcal) is the same type of thing

then IPV (poliovirus) is an inactivated virus and I've seen no reports of reactivation like with some inactivated/attenuated bacterial vaccines.​

so I have no clue what the hell you're babbling about here, but your "facts" need to be checked and your attitude checked at the door since your expertise on this subject is seriously lacking any substance.

 

[PariPari]

HEY I'm the only one who said what "other" vaccine I got (Japanese Encephalitis)

WHO are the rest of you & what'd you get? (I might go get it for fun )

 

[mshheaddoc]

I have a 100% chance of not getting the Mumps. I have full immunity. I have had my blood titres done. 😉

Ok, so you have natural immunity to all diseases with vaccines out there? Full immunity doesn't seem to work with vaccines (so you claim with the mumps) so it would work with you?

Since I know no one who hasn't had their immunizations (I come from a state where it is mandatory) how does that work? And how does that work worldwide in these other countries you state that don't have vaccination yet have a high ID mortality rate? Why are these people dying they need natural immunity?

 

[mshheaddoc]

HEY I'm the only one who said what "other" vaccine I got (Japanese Encephalitis)

WHO are the rest of you & what'd you get? (I might go get it for fun )

Anthrax was mentioned.

 

[PariPari]

Anthrax was mentioned.

Thanks I think it got lost in all the huffing & puffing

Yeah, I'll add that to my list, I think I have to get a job at the State public health office/in a anthrax research lab/ at the CDC (or join the army) to get it.

 

[ForeverStudent]

IV fluids & antibiotics won't work for most diseases that vaccines are used for b/c w/ they're viruses

Yes, you are right. You do know that the human body can fight disease on it's own, right?
I know what antibiotics are for and also what IV fluids are for. Please don't belittle what I am saying.

 

[Hernandez]

But you are willing to have it injected into your body? How does that make any logical sense?

the Hep B vaccine is not a virus, it's an antigen. I'll take subq/IM inject ions of antigens and/or use them as seasoning on foods all day long.

 

[Pemberley]

HEY I'm the only one who said what "other" vaccine I got (Japanese Encephalitis)

WHO are the rest of you & what'd you get? (I might go get it for fun )

Yeah, you're not really going to want to do that. Anthrax shots hurt like hell. And they come in a series of six. 😱

-Pemberley