IMMUNIZATIONS. PROFITS OR PROTECT COMMUNINTY?

[sozetone]

Guys,

My take?

Get your Flu shot! Get pneumonia! Get TDAP! Get shingles! get Hepatitis A and B!! blah...blah

The question? does anyone look at the names on the boxes of vaccines we dispense.? Merck, Pfizer, Sanofi, Lilly, ...on and on. They basically run things. 10 years ago , nobody cared how you were doing. remember? Now the chains all want to "Protect the community", "improve health outcomes"...blah blah

My opinion is that profit and greed have overwhelmed us to the point that we now hide behind the guise of "Helping Others" "protecting community" "improving health outcomes", when this is all profit driven. A bad mix in my book....embarrassing. Just want opinions. Take care guys!

your thoughts?

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[gwarm01]

Ease up on the caps lock.

 

[pencilandpen]

Just like how "I wanna go to pharmacy school to be a pharmacist so I can help the community" really translate to " I wanna do pharmacy because I want to make money"

Only reason people do things is for self profit. Isn't that the whole reason y'all are in pharmacy?

 

[lane one]

Pharmacy is a business. You work for a corporation, and one of the ways that corporation makes money is to administer vaccines. I'm so tired of pharmacists who don't get this. If you just want to help people without "contributing to corporate greed" then go practice pharmacy is an undeveloped country.

 

[deleted480308]

*inserts “why not both?” Meme pic

 

[mentos]

All of those were pushed on the public in doctors offices long before in pharmacy.

 

[JamesL1585]

All of those were pushed on the public in doctors offices long before in pharmacy.

This is spot on. Pharma industry knows how to convince, sell, and then hook people on "public health" initiatives. I do believe immunizations ultimately help humanity (as most research shows), but its the sleezy kind of over-selling, and from the pharmacist view points (which is even more tainted), you're threatened with your job for not doing enough immunizations, which is completely out of line. That is what likely makes you believe these kinds of things about incentives versus if these are genuine approaches (or profitable pipelines). I get that!

 

[wagrxm2000]

Why do people care so much about how much the chains and big pharma make?

Stop thinking about how much you help them and instead worry about your customers.

You shouldn't have chose this career if you didn't want to protect people.

You wouldn't even be in this career if it wasn't for the money. We should be paid 80 to 90k, the chains got us to where we are today. Maybe you should thank them?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

*inserts “why not both?” Meme pic

Yep.

The big pharmacy chains are definitely interested from a money perspective but that doesn't mean they can't accidentally do some good in their greed.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Why do people care so much about how much the chains and big pharma make?

Stop thinking about how much you help them and instead worry about your customers.

You shouldn't have chose this career if you didn't want to protect people.

You wouldn't even be in this career if it wasn't for the money. We should be paid 80 to 90k, the chains got us to where we are today. Maybe you should thank them?

Fonz

~~~~~/{~~~~~

Shark

 

[Rouelle]

You dispense HCTZ for a profit. The patient benefits from taking the HCTZ. Same concept.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

You dispense HCTZ for a profit. The patient benefits from taking the HCTZ. Same concept.

Agreed.
I don't understand how people can be so intellectually incompetent.

"GUYS IS GROCERY STORECARE ABOUT YOU NOT STARVING OR DEY JUST CARE ABOUT MONEY FROM FOOD???"

 

[Thoughtfulsinner]

Why do people care so much about how much the chains and big pharma make?

Stop thinking about how much you help them and instead worry about your customers.

You shouldn't have chose this career if you didn't want to protect people.

You wouldn't even be in this career if it wasn't for the money. We should be paid 80 to 90k, the chains got us to where we are today. Maybe you should thank them?

More like 60-70K.

 

[PA_dud3]

It's just a shot tho

Why is this an ethical dilemma

 

[wagrxm2000]

Fonz

~~~~~/{~~~~~

Shark

That was a good episode.

 

[Cleaveland]

You wouldn't even be in this career if it wasn't for the money. We should be paid 80 to 90k, the chains got us to where we are today. Maybe you should thank them?

I thought it was inflation.

 

[Unchained]

Guys,

My take?

Get your Flu shot! Get pneumonia! Get TDAP! Get shingles! get Hepatitis A and B!! blah...blah

The question? does anyone look at the names on the boxes of vaccines we dispense.? Merck, Pfizer, Sanofi, Lilly, ...on and on. They basically run things. 10 years ago , nobody cared how you were doing. remember? Now the chains all want to "Protect the community", "improve health outcomes"...blah blah

My opinion is that profit and greed have overwhelmed us to the point that we now hide behind the guise of "Helping Others" "protecting community" "improving health outcomes", when this is all profit driven. A bad mix in my book....embarrassing. Just want opinions. Take care guys!

your thoughts?

I remember 15 years ago when we weren't allowed to give flu shots we told patients that the shot didn't work very well and they should just take the basic precautions of staying away from people with the flu, washing hands and keeping hands away from face. Get 7 hours of sleep per night and maintain good nutrition. As soon as we were granted the right to give shots it was like upselling at McDonalds. "You want fries with that?".
It's embarrassing where the profession has been driven.

The last chain I worked at gave us scripts of scary stories about tetanus to tell senior citizens who work in their gardens. I asked the DM when was the last time she heard about anyone getting Tetanus. She said she hadn't. I told her I won't be upselling Tetanus shots. She moved on to my partner who is an Indian with kids and is an easier target.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I remember 15 years ago when we weren't allowed to give flu shots we told patients that the shot didn't work very well and they should just take the basic precautions of staying away from people with the flu, washing hands and keeping hands away from face. Get 7 hours of sleep per night and maintain good nutrition. As soon as we were granted the right to give shots it was like upselling at McDonalds. "You want fries with that?".
It's embarrassing where the profession has been driven.

The last chain I worked at gave us scripts of scary stories about tetanus to tell senior citizens who work in their gardens. I asked the DM when was the last time she heard about anyone getting Tetanus. She said she hadn't. I told her I won't be upselling Tetanus shots. She moved on to my partner who is an Indian with kids and is an easier target.

Gee, that couldn't be because we're all getting tetanus shots could it?

 

[Unchained]

Gee, that couldn't be because we're all getting tetanus shots could it?

The CDC reported that in 2012 adult tetanus vaccination rates were only 64.2%. So the answer to your question is "No". Yet another unnecessary vaccine.
Or maybe you should add this to the diseases that were "eradicated" by vaccines.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The CDC reported that in 2012 adult tetanus vaccination rates were only 64.2%. So the answer to your question is "No". Yet another unnecessary vaccine.
Or maybe you should add this to the diseases that were "eradicated" by vaccines.

Oh, but the vast majority of adult tetanus vaccines are in people who have injuries. If you don't have an open wound you're not going to get tetanus.

we go after children so hard because they don't always tell anyone if they get a scratch when playing outside. But adults go to the doctor for that sort of thing and get their tetanus shot to prevent the infection.

It's the sort of thing you would know if you weren't an anti-vaccine hack

 

[deleted480308]

The CDC reported that in 2012 adult tetanus vaccination rates were only 64.2%. So the answer to your question is "No". Yet another unnecessary vaccine.
Or maybe you should add this to the diseases that were "eradicated" by vaccines.

Is your argument that vax doesn’t work?

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Gee, that couldn't be because we're all getting tetanus shots could it?

Unchained's logic is that if all his hypertensive patients haven't dropped dead from a stroke then their anti-hypertensives are ineffective and part of an AHA conspiracy.

 

[PA_dud3]

The CDC reported that in 2012 adult tetanus vaccination rates were only 64.2%. So the answer to your question is "No". Yet another unnecessary vaccine.
Or maybe you should add this to the diseases that were "eradicated" by vaccines.

Do you prefer lockjaw?

 

[Rouelle]

The CDC reported that in 2012 adult tetanus vaccination rates were only 64.2%. So the answer to your question is "No". Yet another unnecessary vaccine.
Or maybe you should add this to the diseases that were "eradicated" by vaccines.

64.2% effective? I’ll take that every day of the week. Especially since the vaccine not taken is 0% effective.

 

[deleted480308]

64.2% effective? I’ll take that every day of the week. Especially since the vaccine not taken is 0% effective.

64 was the effectiveness rate, that was % of population taking the vax

 

[Rouelle]

64 was the effectiveness rate, that was % of population taking the vax

Well I guess it would have helped if I had read his post before responding.

 

[projektreverb]

To answer OP:

It literally works well for everyone. Pharmacy makes money. Patient is protected. It's the metrics I'm frustrated about. I feel like they set them so we're never able to meet them.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Get 7 hours of sleep per night and maintain good nutrition. As soon as we were granted the right to give shots it was like upselling at McDonalds. "You want fries with that?".

I can only imagine what would happen if provider status really were to take off. "Would you like some birth control pills with that?"

 

[BidingMyTime]

*inserts “why not both?” Meme pic

Totally this, both are true. There is lots of profits in vaccinations, but it is also a public good.

I remember 15 years ago when we weren't allowed to give flu shots we told patients that the shot didn't work very well and they should just take the basic precautions of staying away from people with the flu, washing hands and keeping hands away from face.

Maybe my perspective from the hospital standpoint is different, but I never thought that, or ever told people not to bother with the flu shot. I have never heard any of the pharmacists I work with ever say or express that idea . The CDC has been recommending the flu vaccines, and while it's effectiveness is great compared to other vaccines, even 20% effective beats 0% effective which is what not getting the vaccine is.

 

[VA77]

I really don't like that the first words that come out of my mouth to a patient are, Welcome to XYZ, can I give you a flu shot. They see all the signs in the stores and even get flyers in the mail. I think they already know we provide this service without shoving it down their throat.

 

[Unchained]

Well I guess it would have helped if I had read his post before responding.

Yes, you should probably read statements first before going into your programmed mode of vaccine salesman.

 

[Unchained]

To answer OP:

It literally works well for everyone. Pharmacy makes money. Patient is protected. It's the metrics I'm frustrated about. I feel like they set them so we're never able to meet them.

Metrics are a very bad idea in healthcare for certain. It results in patients receiving vaccines which are not appropriate, insurance fraud by pharmacists and a declining trust in healthcare professionals. I've witnessed all of this on several occasions.

 

[Unchained]

Totally this, both are true. There is lots of profits in vaccinations, but it is also a public good.



Maybe my perspective from the hospital standpoint is different, but I never thought that, or ever told people not to bother with the flu shot. I have never heard any of the pharmacists I work with ever say or express that idea . The CDC has been recommending the flu vaccines, and while it's effectiveness is great compared to other vaccines, even 20% effective beats 0% effective which is what not getting the vaccine is.

There has been no reliable method employed to verify the efficacy of the flu vaccine. I want to see vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Remember the CDC approved a vaccine (Flumist) which had 0 efficacy. It was on the market for several years.

 

[Unchained]

Do you prefer lockjaw?

When was the last time you encountered a patient who had lockjaw? When have you heard about a patient with lockjaw? You probably haven't. I'm sure you think that is because 100% adults get their tetanus shot every 10 years and tetanus has been "eradicated" by the vaccine.

 

[deleted480308]

When was the last time you encountered a patient who had lockjaw? When have you heard about a patient with lockjaw? You probably haven't. I'm sure you think that is because 100% adults get their tetanus shot every 10 years and tetanus has been "eradicated" by the vaccine.

Come to think of it, I haven’t had a polio patient either.....it must be because that vax was useless!

[end sarcasm]

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Is your argument that vax doesn’t work?

Yes.
They're a pharmacy forum loony that likes to make silly claims based on emotion.
They have a persecution complex. "Unchained".

No, they are not aware of how painfully obvious it is that they don't have a normal RPh understanding of statistics, epi, or anything else. They are under the impression that ignoring a question that BTFOs their post is the same as refuting it.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Yes.
They're a pharmacy forum loony that likes to make silly claims based on emotion.
They have a persecution complex. "Unchained".

No, they are not aware of how painfully obvious it is that they don't have a normal RPh understanding of statistics, epi, or anything else. They are under the impression that ignoring a question that BTFOs their post is the same as refuting it.

But Flumist.

Doesn't that prove everything?

Over 170 flu deaths in children last year and 80% didn't receive the shot. Shouldn't that number be 50% if it didn't work?

 

[Pharmgrlnxdor]

How can anyone argue against the tetanus shot?



And this accompanying comment was very well stated...so I have purloined it for your benefit, since I am too busy to write up a comment of my own. Please educate yourself if you are a pharmacist.

A viewer asked: "What specifically do antibiotics or human tetanus immune globulin (TIG) do to control the disease during treatment?"

Answer was:
"Tetanus is caused by a toxic substance secreted by a bacteria. Antibiotics basically stop bacteria reproducing so they just die off without anymore being made, and therefore no more toxin. TIG is the antibody that can destroy the bacteria. When you get vaccinated your body learns how to make the antibody. So when you get a for reals infection the response is quick enough to prevent the onset. However, this memory only lasts five yeas or so. Consequently, the tetanus shot is a vaccine you need to get throughout the lifespan. Also when your body learns to make the antibody it can take a week or so to do. Tetanus onset can begin just a few days after infection so there isn't enough time for your body to learn to make the antibodies, either as a result of the exposure to the infection or though the vaccine given after infection. So if you have a chance of having tetanus they will give you the TIG antibodies directly to fight the infection rather than vaccine as the destruction of any bacteria would be immediate before symptoms occurred. The downside of this is it doesn't teach your body how to make the antibodies itself, especially if you don't have tetanus, but when time is of the essence it is the best course of action. Otherwise, when only prevention is being considered, such as when you visit your GP, they will go for the prevention vaccination strategy as it is cheaper, there's time for you to mount an immune response against the synthetic and harmless form of tetanus in the vaccine and the vaccine reduces the risk of symptom onset in case you can't get to a hospital in time.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

How can anyone argue against the tetanus shot?



And this accompanying comment was very well stated...so I have purloined it for your benefit, since I am too busy to write up a comment of my own. Please educate yourself if you are a pharmacist.

A viewer asked: "What specifically do antibiotics or human tetanus immune globulin (TIG) do to control the disease during treatment?"

Answer was:
"Tetanus is caused by a toxic substance secreted by a bacteria. Antibiotics basically stop bacteria reproducing so they just die off without anymore being made, and therefore no more toxin. TIG is the antibody that can destroy the bacteria. When you get vaccinated your body learns how to make the antibody. So when you get a for reals infection the response is quick enough to prevent the onset. However, this memory only lasts five yeas or so. Consequently, the tetanus shot is a vaccine you need to get throughout the lifespan. Also when your body learns to make the antibody it can take a week or so to do. Tetanus onset can begin just a few days after infection so there isn't enough time for your body to learn to make the antibodies, either as a result of the exposure to the infection or though the vaccine given after infection. So if you have a chance of having tetanus they will give you the TIG antibodies directly to fight the infection rather than vaccine as the destruction of any bacteria would be immediate before symptoms occurred. The downside of this is it doesn't teach your body how to make the antibodies itself, especially if you don't have tetanus, but when time is of the essence it is the best course of action. Otherwise, when only prevention is being considered, such as when you visit your GP, they will go for the prevention vaccination strategy as it is cheaper, there's time for you to mount an immune response against the synthetic and harmless form of tetanus in the vaccine and the vaccine reduces the risk of symptom onset in case you can't get to a hospital in time.

Sigh. So about half of this is wrong.

The antibodies we get as a result of the tetanus vaccine specifically target the tetanus toxins which are what cause the clinical symptoms of a tetanus infection (lockjaw and so forth). So our body essentially neutralizes the toxin. Doesn't affect the bacteria itself as best we can tell.

Tetanus immunoglobin is basically the same antibodies you would make if you've been vaccinated.

The vaccine contains a tetanus toxin that has been treated with formaldehyde to render it harmless

 

[OXYFORALL]

Why do people care so much about how much the chains and big pharma make?

Stop thinking about how much you help them and instead worry about your customers.

You shouldn't have chose this career if you didn't want to protect people.

You wouldn't even be in this career if it wasn't for the money. We should be paid 80 to 90k, the chains got us to where we are today. Maybe you should thank them?

You sure do drink the corporate Kool Aid don't you?

 

[wagrxm2000]

You sure do drink the corporate Kool Aid don't you?

Instead of saying that why not give your opinion?

Do you care more about protecting your customers or the money the chains and big pharma make?

 

[grumpyRph]

but ok , does anyone know or care about the different available flu shots? like the ones for ages under 65 yo? i can't keep all that straight amidst all the other chaos going on in the pharmacy. and customers have no clue about the different products available. some MIGHT know that there's a 3 strain versus a 4 strain one.

i think what's more annoying about us pushing vaccines are still the customers that come up to the window all self-righteous/arrogant and announcing to the pharmacy "i'm here for my flu shot!" like they deserve a medal. idk it drives me crazy! like, yeah i've been waiting all day to stop everything for you and fight your insurance for it to be no cost.

oh and all the long sleeve shirts...siiiigh....

 

[Wickett]

You do realize businesses can push initiatives that are both profit driven and also good for the general public health, right? This applies to proper immunization schedules/administration, patient adherence, etc. Something that results in greater profit for a company doesn't make it inherently bad.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Come to think of it, I haven’t had a polio patient either.....it must be because that vax was useless!
[end sarcasm]

Sadly, we went through that in a thread with Unchained a couple of years ago. Unchained believes that it was the availability of clean water in the 50's/60's that ended the polio plague. (never mind that the first federal laws on clean drinking water were enacted as early as 1914.)

 

[PA_dud3]

Sadly, we went through that in a thread with Unchained a couple of years ago. Unchained believes that it was the availability of clean water in the 50's/60's that ended the polio plague. (never mind that the first federal laws on clean drinking water were enacted as early as 1914.)

So he's serious about this vaccination stuff? Like against everything?

 

[BidingMyTime]

So he's serious about this vaccination stuff? Like against everything?

Haha, you must be new hear. Yes, Unchained is serious about no vaccines of any kind. You can search his post history.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Haha, you must be new hear. Yes, Unchained is serious about no vaccines of any kind. You can search his post history.

I've prepared an illustration

 

[PA_dud3]

I've prepared an illustration

Great show, great meme