Importance of Connection in getting into UCLA/USC?

[mld]

I've heard for these two schools it is especially important to have connection in order to get in. What do you think?

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[sharksurfer]

not really..i know many professors at both of those schools and even did summer programs at each. didnt even get an interview at ucla, and im waitlisted at usc. so yea...i think "connections" are only applicable if you have an overall good qualified well-rounded application..ie, that they wouldve accepted u even without ur "connection"

 

[dentalaee]

I don't think so.

 

[lphiewok]

also do not think it's true at least for USC..
i had no connection with school whatsoever and also most of students in our fb group are not from usc / LA area.

 

[fsddsms]

I've heard for these two schools it is especially important to have connection in order to get in. What do you think?

I think I never got that memo about having connections. Just study hard, work hard, and send stuff in early. Best advice I ever took.

 

[doc1986]

I doubt it. I got in and I am from Florida and had never been to Cali until my interview. IMO, there is no secret to getting into dental school but numbers. The rest is just a bonus.

 

[Vicviper]

I was actually shadowing with a dentist for a day a while back who said he used to be an Adcom at USC, and he literally said to me, "I can write you a letter that will get you into USC." I didn't end up shadowing with him any more for one reason or another, but he was being totally serious. This isn't to say that you need connections to get in or anything though. Also, UoP is a school where I've heard that connections really matter, but that's just scuttlebutt.

 

[Scoopie12]

I was actually shadowing with a dentist for a day a while back who said he used to be an Adcom at USC, and he literally said to me, "I can write you a letter that will get you into USC." I didn't end up shadowing with him any more for one reason or another, but he was being totally serious. This isn't to say that you need connections to get in or anything though. Also, UoP is a school where I've heard that connections really matter, but that's just scuttlebutt.

I don't know about that, I think a lot of dentists think they are special and can get somebody in but are just overhyping themselves. I heard from the dentist I worked for from our lab technician who only had a high school diploma and had never been to college that "Dr. So-and-so told me if I wanted to go to Dental School he could get me in." I shrugged my shoulders and told him that it was impossible, he refused to believe me.

I suppose in your case it may be possible since he was an Adcom, but then again, any former Adcom would probably have pull at their respective schools, not just USC.

 

[doc1986]

I don't know about that, I think a lot of dentists think they are special and can get somebody in but are just overhyping themselves. I heard from the dentist I worked for from our lab technician who only had a high school diploma and had never been to college that "Dr. So-and-so told me if I wanted to go to Dental School he could get me in." I shrugged my shoulders and told him that it was impossible, he refused to believe me.

I suppose in your case it may be possible since he was an Adcom, but then again, any former Adcom would probably have pull at their respective schools, not just USC.

^^ Cosign. The dentist that I had write me a rec assured me that I would get in to his alma mater Columbia if he wrote it. I didn't even get an interview there haha. Some have inflated egos and think they can pull some weight but in all reality, connections mean squat. BTW I got interviews everywhere else (including the other 2 ivies), so it wasn't my numbers. Maybe his rec hurt me...

 

[doc toothache]

I was actually shadowing with a dentist for a day a while back who said he used to be an Adcom at USC, and he literally said to me, "I can write you a letter that will get you into USC." I didn't end up shadowing with him any more for one reason or another, but he was being totally serious. This isn't to say that you need connections to get in or anything though. Also, UoP is a school where I've heard that connections really matter, but that's just scuttlebutt.

In the end, he never did write you a letter so we will never know how much of that was bravado and how much it would have been the real McCoy. Chances are pretty much that it was 100% of the former.

 

[UKdreams]

If you know someone on the adcom that might help. I have done a program under a such person. Not for a second do I bank on that, but I feel like they will help me.

 

[New2Philly]

I think that UCLA can get in trouble for not being able to justify who they accept, since they are a public University.

 

[sfrice80]

I disagree that connections alone will get you into dental school. I can say though that I believe "connections" can definitely help you in certain instances. I can comment on USC, my cousin graduated from their dental school and I can say they were the only school that I felt really pursued me hard, I had applied and decided to not pay my app fee for personal reasons figuring they wouldn't review my app cuz that's what the email said. Low and behold I got invited for an interview and decided why not, so I attended and afterwards decided not to continue pursuing them by not paying my app fee or sending back my post-interview packet which meant USC would stop reviewing my file. Sure enough on Dec 1st I got an acceptance email from USC. I'm not saying it's because of my cousin but it was unusual circumstances.

 

[mld]

From what I have repeately heard from over 10 different people, working at a lab at UCLA dental school and getting a recommendation letter from the faculty will give you a huge advantage over other applicants. Unfortunately despite being a public school, UCLA is less than fair when it comes to admissions process. Just look at the post by Castro Viego:



UCLA Dental Scandal

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SDN Members don't see this ad.Thought some of you guys might find this interesting. It implicates several other schools as well.

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Cheating on licensing exams is probed, and a highly competitive program is accused of giving preferential treatment in admissions.

By Louis Sahagun, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
November 14, 2007
The UCLA School of Dentistry was hit by separate scandals Tuesday involving allegations of favoritism toward relatives of deep-pocket donors and student cheating on licensing examinations, university authorities acknowledged.

The American Dental Assn. is investigating allegations of cheating by at least a dozen UCLA students as well as students from USC, Loma Linda University and New York University, UCLA officials said. The students were alleged to have improperly obtained questions to a test that is a step toward fulfilling qualifications for a license to practice dentistry.

"The ADA is looking into alleged improprieties by UCLA students associated with testing," said Lawrence Lokman, UCLA's assistant vice chancellor of communications. "We would certainly hope any ADA investigation provides adequate due process to the students, and whatever matter they are looking at would be resolved quickly and fairly."

A detailed account of alleged preferential treatment given large financial donors to the dental school's highly competitive orthodontics residency program appeared in Tuesday's edition of the Daily Bruin, the campus newspaper. There are about only six positions offered each year in the residency program, and the positions are highly sought because careers as orthodontic specialists can be lucrative.

It was not the first time the university has been accused of favoring major donors and other influential people with VIP admission treatment. In 1996, The Times published a five-part series that underlined how seeking generous donors had become a "team sport," in the words of one UCLA fundraiser.

In the aftermath of The Times series, UCLA officially prohibited influencing admissions with donations.

The Daily Bruin's months-long investigation, coupled with an independent audit conducted this year, has prompted changes in the School of Dentistry's admissions policies and procedures, university authorities said. For example, admission to coveted program positions must now be reviewed by a special admissions panel to resolve potential conflicts of interest.

But No-Hee Park, dean of the School of Dentistry, said in a prepared statement that the program was fair and merit-based.

"While an independent investigation requested by Acting Chancellor Norman Abrams found no credible and convincing evidence to support allegations of a legacy program in the orthodontics admissions process," Park said, "it did provide us with an opportunity to review our admissions policies and procedures and make improvements in the areas of oversight and transparency."

(Abrams was acting chancellor until Gene D. Block assumed the top post at UCLA this summer.)

The Daily Bruin article, which it said was based on examinations of hundreds of pages of e-mails and internal documents, said the program's high admissions standards were relaxed for children or relatives of donors who pledged hefty financial gifts, one as high as $1 million.

Amid a university probe, John Beumer III in February resigned as chairman of the faculty executive committee of the School of Dentistry.

"The selection process for residents in orthodontics amounts to nothing less than an affirmative action program for the wealthy and well-connected," he wrote in a resignation letter posted Tuesday on the Daily Bruin's website. "Preferential treatment has been given to children of donors and students who have worked in the research laboratories of orthodontics faculty."

In an interview Tuesday, he said, "UCLA students in particular have been disadvantaged by this policy. I don't think this represents the best of the university. But I think it will change because, fortunately, this incident has precipitated a review of the issue."

Michael McDonald, a dental school alumnus, agreed, saying in an interview, "It's horrible, just horrible, what's going on."

According to McDonald, a dental school official told him that giving large donors and their relatives an edge in the competitive admissions process was a way to increase revenues.

"When I heard that, I called the office of admissions about it," McDonald recalled, "and the rats started jumping off the ship.

"People should be getting in because of their hard work and qualifications, not because of how much money their mom and dad gave the school," McDonald said. "I studied my brains out, but I would have accomplished nothing under these circumstances because my father worked in a grocery store and our family bank account was empty."

As for the investigation by the American Dental Assn., Lokman declined to elaborate.

However, two members of the School of Dentistry who asked that their names not be used out of fear of retribution, said the alleged cheating involved the sharing of compact discs that contained improperly obtained questions that appear in American Dental Assn.'s National Board Dental Examinations.

"I love UCLA, and I've donated a lot of money to the university," McDonald said. "But I'm distraught. The fact we have some bad apples in the dental school really bothers me."
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[UKdreams]

And to think only 3 dental schools have been investigated.. In California, there's just more people that can make that 6-figure donation. I am quite sure that any university has an unwritten code about those sorts of things..

 

[mld]

I agree there are perhaps many other schools that do that. But does that make cheating in admissions a right thing to do especially for a public school like UCLA? There are perhaps a lot more cheating and discrimination in UCLA's admissions than are revealed. It is very difficult to prove one school is cheating because admissions are, to large degree, subjective processes. Even if you are a very strong applicant with a lot of community services, DAT score of 25, and a 3.9 GPA, they can still reject you without offering you an interview. They can simply say "you are not a very good fit for our school" but they refuse to say why, or at least telling you which one of your qualities is not consistent with the school's mission. If they claim that they are fair, why do not they say, at least to those with high GPAs and DAT scores who studied for years to make their dreams come true, why they were not selected or what they can do to improve their application?
I have gone to UCLA for undergrad and I am very familiar with the dental school and dental faculties and I know how unfair their admissions process is. An obvious example is how UCLA has been discriminating against Persian Males in the past 3 years. There are numerous Persian male applicants with extremely high GPAs, DAT scores, several research publications, and numerous community service. Not even one of them has been admitted to UCLA in the past 3 years. On the other hand, there are over 15 Persian females with much lower GPAs and DAT scores who have gained admissions to UCLA last year. For those of you who go to UCLA for undergrad, it is easy to find out by visiting the dental school only once. If and when you visit the school, please pay attention to the number of Persian girls vs. Persian guys in D1, D2, and D3.
I am not saying all of the people who get in to UCLA have connections. If you are accepted because of your hard and honest work, then good job! You should be very proud for such an outstanding accomplishment. All I am saying is unfortunately cheating does happen in the admission's process and it continues to happen as long as it stays as a subjective, unverifiable process.

 

[justwu86]

I disagree that connections alone will get you into dental school. I can say though that I believe "connections" can definitely help you in certain instances. I can comment on USC, my cousin graduated from their dental school and I can say they were the only school that I felt really pursued me hard, I had applied and decided to not pay my app fee for personal reasons figuring they wouldn't review my app cuz that's what the email said. Low and behold I got invited for an interview and decided why not, so I attended and afterwards decided not to continue pursuing them by not paying my app fee or sending back my post-interview packet which meant USC would stop reviewing my file. Sure enough on Dec 1st I got an acceptance email from USC. I'm not saying it's because of my cousin but it was unusual circumstances.

ridiculous!

 

[justwu86]

I agree there are perhaps many other schools that do that. But does that make cheating in admissions a right thing to do especially for a public school like UCLA? There are perhaps a lot more cheating and discrimination in UCLA's admissions than are revealed. It is very difficult to prove one school is cheating because admissions are, to large degree, subjective processes. Even if you are a very strong applicant with a lot of community services, DAT score of 25, and a 3.9 GPA, they can still reject you without offering you an interview. They can simply say "you are not a very good fit for our school" but they refuse to say why, or at least telling you which one of your qualities is not consistent with the school's mission. If they claim that they are fair, why do not they say, at least to those with high GPAs and DAT scores who studied for years to make their dreams come true, why they were not selected or what they can do to improve their application?
I have gone to UCLA for undergrad and I am very familiar with the dental school and dental faculties and I know how unfair their admissions process is. An obvious example is how UCLA has been discriminating against Persian Males in the past 3 years. There are numerous Persian male applicants with extremely high GPAs, DAT scores, several research publications, and numerous community service. Not even one of them has been admitted to UCLA in the past 3 years. On the other hand, there are over 15 Persian females with much lower GPAs and DAT scores who have gained admissions to UCLA last year. For those of you who go to UCLA for undergrad, it is easy to find out by visiting the dental school only once. If and when you visit the school, please pay attention to the number of Persian girls vs. Persian guys in D1, D2, and D3.
I am not saying all of the people who get in to UCLA have connections. If you are accepted because of your hard and honest work, then good job! You should be very proud for such an outstanding accomplishment. All I am saying is unfortunately cheating does happen in the admission's process and it continues to happen as long as it stays as a subjective, unverifiable process.

....I really have a hard time believing that just because you went to UCLA for undergrad you automatically have access to all UCLA's dirty laundry.

I have a hard time believing you have access to UCLA's applicant list and that you know all the statistics of students whom have gone there and ones whom have been rejected for the past 4 years...are you basing this simply off the facebook groups? Or just the people you see walking around the dental school. For what its worth I was at the school for my interview and did not see what you are claiming. These statements are ridiculous and have no factual backing.

Considering how high the average statistics are, they are obviously only accepting students with certain qualificatons. Other than that, UCLA does accept wayyy more instate than out of state students, but from what I know that is true with most public universities.

 

[mashinka]

Dude, the RIGHT connections can get you in anywhere. I had a friend who had been rejected from ASDOH, but then the dean of admissions came to speak to our school. This kid approached him and told him about his situation....the dean went and pulled his application and offered him an acceptance the next day. **** happens all the time....
another friend of mine has a close family friend at Loma Linda....he got in with a 2.7 gpa. Its the sad truth, but you gotta work it when you can

 

[mld]

....I really have a hard time believing that just because you went to UCLA for undergrad you automatically have access to all UCLA's dirty laundry.

I have a hard time believing you have access to UCLA's applicant list and that you know all the statistics of students whom have gone there and ones whom have been rejected for the past 4 years...are you basing this simply off the facebook groups? Or just the people you see walking around the dental school. For what its worth I was at the school for my interview and did not see what you are claiming. These statements are ridiculous and have no factual backing.

Considering how high the average statistics are, they are obviously only accepting students with certain qualificatons. Other than that, UCLA does accept wayyy more instate than out of state students, but from what I know that is true with most public universities.

You obviously misunderstood what I said in my previous post. Let me help you with that.
I never said I have access to UCLA's applicant list nor did I say I have access to all the applicants' pool. These are all your assumptions. But given that I went to UCLA for four years, studied in biomedical library (which located in the same building as the dental school is) where dental students study, have many friends in all of the four classes (D1, D2, D3, D4), have talked to many dental students over the four years, and know many dental school's faculties, I strongly believe I have more credibility to talk about this issue than someone who visited the school just for a few hours on the interview day. Moreover, the articles published by credible news papers such as Los Angeles Times and Daily Bruin further support my claims. Also you can find out about the ration of Persian Males to Persian Females at UCLA dental school by simply spending a few hours of your time going to UCLA (if you live in LA obviously).

Moreover I never said that UCLA is a bad school or has a low statistics. But given that there are many people with DAT scores, GPAs, Extracurricular activities much higher than UCLA's average and given that they do not even get an interview, there is a reasonable doubt that something fishy might be going on.
I have absolutely no problem with a state school like UCLA giving preference to instate applicants and I never mentioned this issue in my previous post. So please do not change the topic.

I can understand why you might have hard time believing my claims about UCLA. This is a simple point in psychology. According to Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, a well know theory in psychology, we tend to change what happens or what is said to us to make ourselves feel in control and safe. We tend to think this way because safety is a basic need for all of us. For example, if after taking an exam you tell your friend that test was very difficult and unproportional to what you were taught in class, your friend will probably not believe you (whether or not he tells you that) not because he has any evidence to support his claim, but simply because he wants to feel safe and in control of possible outcomes of his own actions. I hope this post has cleared up some of the misunderstandings.

As a friend of mine once said "Thousands upon thousands of applicants across the nation are demanding to be equal, and we will win".

 

[justwu86]

But given that I went to UCLA for four years, studied in biomedical library (which located in the same building as the dental school is) where dental students study, have many friends in all of the four classes (D1, D2, D3, D4), have talked to many dental students over the four years, and know many dental school’s faculties, I strongly believe I have more credibility to talk about this issue than someone who visited the school just for a few hours on the interview day. Moreover, the articles published by credible news papers such as Los Angeles Times and Daily Bruin further support my claims. Also you can find out about the ration of Persian Males to Persian Females at UCLA dental school by simply spending a few hours of your time going to UCLA (if you live in LA obviously).

So your essentially your basing this persian thing from people you see studying at the library and talk...doesn't seem very credible to me. You said in your previous post that it'd be obvious for someone to just go there in 1 day and see the blatant difference between the number of persian males/females, I did not see this.

The article you posted has nothing to do with sex/race, it had to do with money. From what it sounded like, you were saying that for some odd reason they prefer specifically persians females over persian males? So if it were an asian male/female it would be equal oppurtunity? What about females with glasses/ and without? what about asians with long hair vs. asians with short hair? I swear I've seen more shorter people at UCLA then taller ones, do they discriminate with that as well?

Moreover I never said that UCLA is a bad school or has a low statistics. But given that there are many people with DAT scores, GPAs, Extracurricular activities much higher than UCLA’s average and given that they do not even get an interview, there is a reasonable doubt that something fishy might be going on.
I have absolutely no problem with a state school like UCLA giving preference to instate applicants and I never mentioned this issue in my previous post. So please do not change the topic.

How exactly do you determine extra curriculars, can you really judge that one has higher than the other? What about personal statements, job experience, history, can you really determine which are better as well? Sorry Dental School is based much more on stats, and I DOUBT you know enough about the students/applicant to make a judgment on it.

I was simply making the point that the only thing which can be proven by facts is that UCLA favors instate students. Your claims of persians males/females, which then can apparently be extrapolated to everything else UCLA does in the app process, have little credibility.

I can understand why you might have hard time believing my claims about UCLA. This is a simple point in psychology. According to Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, a well know theory in psychology, we tend to change what happens or what is said to us to make ourselves feel in control and safe. We tend to think this way because safety is a basic need for all of us. For example, if after taking an exam you tell your friend that test was very difficult and unproportional to what you were taught in class, your friend will probably not believe you (whether or not he tells you that) not because he has any evidence to support his claim, but simply because he wants to feel safe and in control of possible outcomes of his own actions. I hope this post has cleared up some of the misunderstandings.

As a friend of mine once said "Thousands upon thousands of applicants across the nation are demanding to be equal, and we will win".

I stop reading at the first sentence, but I'll agree equal opportunity is great. I am all for picking people based on merit. But you also have to realize that selecting people is subjective. People are all different, sure some applicants have higher stats than others but there is much more to people than stats. In the end each school is different and will pick students which they feel fit the program best, and that will forever be subjective.

You started this thread asking if you need connections, seems like you already knew the answer all along...why didn't you just post YOU NEED CONNECTIONS to get into usc/ucla?

 

[mld]

So your essentially your basing this persian thing from people you see studying at the library and talk...doesn't seem very credible to me. You said in your previous post that it'd be obvious for someone to just go there in 1 day and see the blatant difference between the number of persian males/females, I did not see this.

The article you posted has nothing to do with sex/race, it had to do with money. From what it sounded like, you were saying that for some odd reason they prefer specifically persians females over persian males? So if it were an asian male/female it would be equal oppurtunity? What about females with glasses/ and without? what about asians with long hair vs. asians with short hair? I swear I've seen more shorter people at UCLA then taller ones, do they discriminate with that as well?



How exactly do you determine extra curriculars, can you really judge that one has higher than the other? What about personal statements, job experience, history, can you really determine which are better as well? Sorry Dental School is based much more on stats, and I DOUBT you know enough about the students/applicant to make a judgment on it.

I was simply making the point that the only thing which can be proven by facts is that UCLA favors instate students. Your claims of persians males/females, which then can apparently be extrapolated to everything else UCLA does in the app process, have little credibility.



I stop reading at the first sentence, but I'll agree equal opportunity is great. I am all for picking people based on merit. But you also have to realize that selecting people is subjective. People are all different, sure some applicants have higher stats than others but there is much more to people than stats. In the end each school is different and will pick students which they feel fit the program best, and that will forever be subjective.

You started this thread asking if you need connections, seems like you already knew the answer all along...why didn't you just post YOU NEED CONNECTIONS to get into usc/ucla?

Yes the article has to do with UCLA being a corrupt school who accepts students based on how much money their parents have. UCLA does discriminate against Persian Males because apparently three years ago two Persian Male students cheated. It is unfortunate to see how closed minded a professional school can be to associates the wrongdoing of only two students to the whole race of Persian males. And yes one day is enough to go to UCLA dental school to specifically see the number of Persian Males vs. Persian Females IF you actually pay attention to such ratio and IF you can distinguish Persians from other Middleasterns. I actually base the Persian issue on what dental professors and dental students at UCLA say not simply on what Persian students say.

We do not live in an abstract world. We can compare and contrast the amount of volunteer works done by one student versus another. A student who has volunteered in a free clinic for 5 years, who an active member of his community, who is president of two different clubs, who is an active member of four other clubs, who has three research publications can be said to have more extracurricular activities than many UCLA dental students who do not have even one research publication, who have only participated in two on campus clubs.

I started this forum because I wanted to see what other people think about it. Because I do not believe every single student who gets into UCLA has connection. But given the large number of applicants for UCLA's 88 seats, there should not be any cheating at all. I post this forum because I hope that UCLA/USC faculties read it and try to be fairer. It is not for me, I have already been accepted to several reputable dental schools across the nation. I started this forum for people who come after me. For those who apply in future cycles. I hope at least for them the process becomes a little bit fairer.
In the end, even if you do not change your mind, I still respect your opinion on this issue. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

"Humanity is an ocean, if a few drops of an ocean are polluted, the ocean does not become dirty. So how can we lose faith in humanity because of the actions of few human beings?" Gandhi

 

[mld]

Any news from UCLA/USC recently?

 

[mld]

Bump!