In need of some perspective

[DOApplicant021592]

I submitted my AACOMAS application on the first day of the cycle. Applied to six schools (LMU, LECOM-SH, KYCOM, PCOM, VCOM-V, CUSOM). I have received five secondaries (all but CUSOM) and submitted secondaries within two weeks of receipt, typically within a few days. So by all metrics, I applied early. I have had two interviews thus far, LECOM-SH and LMU, both were waitlisted. I do not feel like I interviewed poorly, but I feel that my career aspirations (neurosurgery) might be harming my chances.

3.27 cGPA, 3.18 sGPA - Low because my mom was addicted to drugs/alcohol during first 2-2.5 years of college. Very strong upward trend (nearly straight As).

31 MCAT (12 PS, 10 V, 9 BS)

Highlights

Currently: Research Technician - Duke University School of Medicine (Asthma/Obesity) - I run the laboratory, mentor a Duke undergraduate, and complete all of the research. Work alongside other MDs in surrounding labs - great working relationship.

Laboratory Technician - Duke Asthma, Allergy, and Airway Center (Genentech Lebrikizumab, AsthmaNet BARD/SIENA Phase II Clinical Trials) - Solely responsible for evaluating and processing biopsy tissue/ induced sputum for clinical trials. Part of this responsibility is to work alongside physicians in the procedure room during bronchoscopy to evaluate and/or request more biopsy tissue be taken. Will be taught how to perform a bronchoscopy next month.

First author, original data/review paper - Brain Structure and Function (IF: 5.8)

Two years, undergraduate research, research awards, research grant award.

Hospital Experience (Emergency Room, General Medicine, Neurosurgical Intensive Care, Pathology) - General volunteer duties/ feeding late stage Alzheimer's patients. Shadowing both during and outside of volunteering.

Great LORs

Compared to my fellow interviewers, my application was competitive if not better in some circumstances. I can't really afford a SMP, but I wanted to get advice on what I have been doing wrong. I think throughout all my experiences, I have learned what it means to be a doctor, and more importantly, what it means to work on a team with the goal of excellent patient care.

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[QueenJames]

U need to apply to more programs. ECs are great but a DO lor and higher GPA (~3.4ish) would definitely get you somewhere. good luck!

 

[OverlyRomantic]

Hey man! You do have a solid app. I would try to apply a little more broadly. I honestly don't know if it's too late to submit primaries to more schools. I hope someone with a little more experience than me can answer that for me. I hope you get in!

 

[DOApplicant021592]

U need to apply to more programs. ECs are great but a DO lor and higher GPA (~3.4ish) would definitely get you somewhere. good luck!

I have a DO LOR from the Director of CUSOMs clinic.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

Hey man! You do have a solid app. I would try to apply a little more broadly. I honestly don't know if it's too late to submit primaries to more schools. I hope someone with a little more experience than me can answer that for me. I hope you get in!

I definitely want to apply, but its hard to come up with the fees.

 

[darknecrosforte]

The only red flags I see might be the sGPA or your PS. In terms of application, you may come across as an MD-preferring student who is merely using DO as a backup. Schools like WesternU and PCOM probably don't care at all about that due to regional prestige, but as far as I know, they're wary of students who seem like they'll hold onto DO acceptances until any MD school accepts them. I'm not sure, but mentioning neurosurgery might also add to this perception.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You have applied to a number of rural schools and it probably wouldn't be wise to drop NSGY in an interview as your sole desire.. It might make you look like a gunner and someone they don't want. Nothing wrong with wanting to do NSGY but I would temper that desire on interviews.

 

[OverlyRomantic]

I definitely want to apply, but its hard to come up with the fees.

I understand Have you tried getting a waiver or a loan. Money problems suck.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I submitted my AACOMAS application on the first day of the cycle. Applied to six schools (LMU, LECOM-SH, KYCOM, PCOM, VCOM-V, CUSOM). I have received five secondaries (all but CUSOM) and submitted secondaries within two weeks of receipt, typically within a few days. So by all metrics, I applied early. I have had two interviews thus far, LECOM-SH and LMU, both were waitlisted. I do not feel like I interviewed poorly, but I feel that my career aspirations (neurosurgery) might be harming my chances.

3.27 cGPA, 3.18 sGPA - Low because my mom was addicted to drugs/alcohol during first 2-2.5 years of college. Very strong upward trend (nearly straight As).

31 MCAT (12 PS, 10 V, 9 BS)

Highlights

Currently: Research Technician - Duke University School of Medicine (Asthma/Obesity) - I run the laboratory, mentor a Duke undergraduate, and complete all of the research. Work alongside other MDs in surrounding labs - great working relationship.

Laboratory Technician - Duke Asthma, Allergy, and Airway Center (Genentech Lebrikizumab, AsthmaNet BARD/SIENA Phase II Clinical Trials) - Solely responsible for evaluating and processing biopsy tissue/ induced sputum for clinical trials. Part of this responsibility is to work alongside physicians in the procedure room during bronchoscopy to evaluate and/or request more biopsy tissue be taken. Will be taught how to perform a bronchoscopy next month.

First author, original data/review paper - Brain Structure and Function (IF: 5.8)

Two years, undergraduate research, research awards, research grant award.

Hospital Experience (Emergency Room, General Medicine, Neurosurgical Intensive Care, Pathology) - General volunteer duties/ feeding late stage Alzheimer's patients. Shadowing both during and outside of volunteering.

Great LORs

Compared to my fellow interviewers, my application was competitive if not better in some circumstances. I can't really afford a SMP, but I wanted to get advice on what I have been doing wrong. I think throughout all my experiences, I have learned what it means to be a doctor, and more importantly, what it means to work on a team with the goal of excellent patient care.

How would you rate your interaction with the panel at both interviews? Did you get nervous? Have you called each school for feedback on what could make your app stronger?

 

[Prairiepalmeri]

How do you feel about your chances of moving off the waitlist?

 

[DOApplicant021592]

How would you rate your interaction with the panel at both interviews? Did you get nervous? Have you called each school for feedback on what could make your app stronger?

I am very calm and confident. I know my strengths and weaknesses and am not afraid to talk about both without seeming cocky. I have called, but they say they cannot provide any information.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

How do you feel about your chances of moving off the waitlist?

I honestly think neuro is hurting me. I know id be a good student and it would be a waste not to admit me based off of a speciality.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I honestly think neuro is hurting me. I know id be a good student and it would be a waste not to admit me based off of a speciality.

There is nothing wrong with being interested in neurosurg, but definitely be specific in why, and how you will execute your plan. Did you talk about specifics like relevant residency programs in the state where the school is located? Audition rotations? Shadowing general surgeons and neurosurg?

 

[DOApplicant021592]

There is nothing wrong with being interested in neurosurg, but definitely be specific in why, and how you will execute your plan. Did you talk about specifics like relevant residency programs in the state where the school is located? Audition rotations? Shadowing general surgeons and neurosurg?

I did talk about shadowing, but also that neuroscience in general is my passion.

 

[darknecrosforte]

I honestly think neuro is hurting me. I know id be a good student and it would be a waste not to admit me based off of a speciality.

This is kind of not exactly how they'd see it. I think (as just a lowly, barely-accepted guy) that it may be judging you in terms of not having enough self-awareness that you have slightly unrealistic goals based on stats and lack of shadowing alone. I have been following the neurosurgery threads on SDN and those mother f-ers are honorary Marines in my book. Holy crap their work ethic and mental/physical capabilities are high. They LIVE that stuff and are willing to give up family for it in general. There is no other life for them. Additionally, it seems that attempting it via the DO pathway is like playing on Insane Hard Mode so it makes your judgement seem less... good. There is a reason most DO schools might have only 1 student try it and it probably isn't just the competition.

There are a lot of strong stereotypes involved in declaring interest in a specialty so unfortunately, you face more obstacles.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

I was considering forgoing mentioning it in favor of pushing primary care. I can always still pursue it, but getting in is the limiting step at this point.

 

[mathnerd88]

Know that most, if not all, DO schools focus on primary care, you should have talked about going to primary care first.

I was honest and told my interviewers that while right now I'm interested in family medicine or internal medicine, this may change as I go on different rotations. I might end up liking something else more! Just because I've only been exposed to primary care physicians doesn't mean I close my mind off other specialties.

Interviewers like to hear that you're not completely set on one specialty. You have to give the impression that first and foremost, you are interested in primary care, and DO schools usually train primary care physicians.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

Which is why I think I am being waitlisted as opposed to rejected.

 

[Launcelot]

This is not directed at you, but very generally I feel very skeptical of and slightly embarrassed when I hear/read of pre-meds proclaiming their intended specialties on their application, even if it's a primary care specialty. There's so much learning and changing that happens before then that I feel like applications should be more of a personal discussion of their fit within medicine in general, if that. Besides, talking about neurosurgery takes away allotted character counts from other more personal details that would help committees know you better as a person or details that would make your PS a more enticing story.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

This is not directed at you, but very generally I feel very skeptical of and slightly embarrassed when I hear/read of pre-meds proclaiming their intended specialties on their application, even if it's a primary care specialty. There's so much learning and changing that happens before then that I feel like applications should be more of a personal discussion of their fit within medicine in general, if that. Besides, talking about neurosurgery takes away allotted character counts from other more personal details that would help committees know you better as a person or details that would make your PS a more enticing story.

I only mention it in passing (if asked), as an interest, I spent my personal statement writing about getting my mom clean from drugs and alcohol, that effect on me, and what it taught me about medicine.

 

[Launcelot]

I only mention it in passing (if asked), as an interest, I spent my personal statement writing about getting my mom clean from drugs and alcohol, that effect on me, and what it taught me about medicine.

Good, good! Also, that sounds like a pretty solid read. If you want or even have something like this, find an eloquent way to weave an positive influence or an upside to your personal statement, just so it doesn't read like all gloom and doom (if it does).

 

[DOApplicant021592]

Just a sentence from my PS

"My experiences with my mother’s addictions taught me that caring for another individual, much like treating patients, is often messy; diagnoses and treatment options are often unclear or unavailable, and more times than not there are too many factors that are out of your control. "

 

[mathnerd88]

Just a sentence from my PS

"My experiences with my mother’s addictions taught me that caring for another individual, much like treating patients, is often messy; diagnoses and treatment options are often unclear or unavailable, and more times than not there are too many factors that are out of your control. "

While a nicely written sentence, I hope you have written how you want to be a physician even through all this "messiness and uncertainty," and how are you going to resolve this personal struggle you have faced, even as a physician.

Adcoms want to be able to know that you're confident in wanting to become a physician, and while acknowledging that the healthcare system here is not perfect, still strive to better healthcare for all.

This is just my personal opinion, so take this with just a grain of salt.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

If I receive another interview I'm going to push that I want this more than anything I have ever wanted. That its the type of thing that I would gladly do for free if given the chance to do it at all.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

While a nicely written sentence, I hope you have written how you want to be a physician even through all this "messiness and uncertainty," and how are you going to resolve this personal struggle you have faced, even as a physician.

Adcoms want to be able to know that you're confident in wanting to become a physician, and while acknowledging that the healthcare system here is not perfect, still strive to better healthcare for all.

This is just my personal opinion, so take this with just a grain of salt.

I resolved it by getting her clean. She has been clean for about a year now and I got her a job that she enjoys. She wasn't always like this, but needed a life line to come back.

 

[mathnerd88]

If I receive another interview I'm going to push that I want this more than anything I have ever wanted. That its the type of thing that I would gladly do for free if given the chance to do it at all.

Don't say that. You need to be articulate, but don't come off as desperate. I would suggest that you talk about the school as your top choice and use specific examples of what the school offers.

 

[mathnerd88]

I resolved it by getting her clean. She has been clean for about a year now and I got her a job that she enjoys. She wasn't always like this, but needed a life line to come back.

Okay, that is good story to tell. Unique for sure! As long as you tied it in that fuels your passion to wanting to be a physician, it would make a compelling argument.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

Don't say that. You need to be articulate, but don't come off as desperate. I would suggest that you talk about the school as your top choice and use specific examples of what the school offers.

Definitely solid advice.

 

[mathnerd88]

Definitely solid advice.

Every school has its own uniqueness to it. It is up to you to discover what that is, and express it in your interviews. I was able to find in my research specific things each school offered that other schools didn't and was accepted to all the schools I interviewed at.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Just a sentence from my PS

"My experiences with my mother’s addictions taught me that caring for another individual, much like treating patients, is often messy; diagnoses and treatment options are often unclear or unavailable, and more times than not there are too many factors that are out of your control. "

You are right on the money that healthcare can often be messy, but where exactly are you taking your point with this? Elaborate clearly how exactly this convinces ADCOMs that you will be a reliable, competent physician.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

"The best tool for a physician to employ is their empathy; it allows the physician to gain unparalleled understanding of their patient’s ailments, and form more intimate connections in an often dehumanized healthcare system. Only through empathy was I able to give my mother the help she needed, it is the most valuable trait I possess, and one that I will use, and have used with every patient I have encountered. I believe that being a physician involves much more than being able to diagnose and provide a treatment, it takes someone who will provide the utmost compassion to every patient regardless of the situation, who will persevere even when their peers tell them that it is futile, and who will constantly grow with every patient they see. My personality is a product of my experiences, and my experiences have shaped me to understand and embody these traits. It is because of this that I know I will succeed as a neurosurgeon, and as a physician."

That neurosurgeon bit I'm regretting.

 

[Rekt]

"The best tool for a physician to employ is their empathy; it allows the physician to gain unparalleled understanding of their patient’s ailments, and form more intimate connections in an often dehumanized healthcare system. Only through empathy was I able to give my mother the help she needed, it is the most valuable trait I possess, and one that I will use, and have used with every patient I have encountered. I believe that being a physician involves much more than being able to diagnose and provide a treatment, it takes someone who will provide the utmost compassion to every patient regardless of the situation, who will persevere even when their peers tell them that it is futile, and who will constantly grow with every patient they see. My personality is a product of my experiences, and my experiences have shaped me to understand and embody these traits. It is because of this that I know I will succeed as a neurosurgeon, and as a physician."

That neurosurgeon bit I'm regretting.

Talk about jumping the gun. Just lie like everyone else and tell them how interested you are in family practice and pediatrics.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

Talk about jumping the gun. Just lie like everyone else and tell them how interested you are in family practice and pediatrics.

This is something I am realizing now. I tried to be honest, but that isn't getting me anywhere. I have already decided to push primary care.

 

[Rekt]

This is something I am realizing now. I tried to be honest, but that isn't getting me anywhere. I have already decided to push primary care.

I'd research a few schools who still have spots open. You need to add more schools, like literally right now. It might be too late though. Your MCAT is good enough to get you in somewhere. Add in AZCOM since they get orgasmic over higher MCAT scores. Then add a bunch of low-tier schools.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

There is a lot of debate, what would you consider to be a low-tier school?

Added Ohio this morning.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

"The best tool for a physician to employ is their empathy; it allows the physician to gain unparalleled understanding of their patient’s ailments, and form more intimate connections in an often dehumanized healthcare system. Only through empathy was I able to give my mother the help she needed, it is the most valuable trait I possess, and one that I will use, and have used with every patient I have encountered. I believe that being a physician involves much more than being able to diagnose and provide a treatment, it takes someone who will provide the utmost compassion to every patient regardless of the situation, who will persevere even when their peers tell them that it is futile, and who will constantly grow with every patient they see. My personality is a product of my experiences, and my experiences have shaped me to understand and embody these traits. It is because of this that I know I will succeed as a neurosurgeon, and as a physician."

That neurosurgeon bit I'm regretting.

Hey there, I am digging most of this. However, you really need it to be edited if this is actually what you sent. There are a lot of comma errors...find an english major! Good luck! You seem like a great person!

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

"The best tool for a physician to employ is their empathy; it allows the physician to gain unparalleled understanding of their patient’s ailments, and form more intimate connections in an often dehumanized healthcare system. Only through empathy was I able to give my mother the help she needed, it is the most valuable trait I possess, and one that I will use, and have used with every patient I have encountered. I believe that being a physician involves much more than being able to diagnose and provide a treatment, it takes someone who will provide the utmost compassion to every patient regardless of the situation, who will persevere even when their peers tell them that it is futile, and who will constantly grow with every patient they see. My personality is a product of my experiences, and my experiences have shaped me to understand and embody these traits. It is because of this that I know I will succeed as a neurosurgeon, and as a physician."

That neurosurgeon bit I'm regretting.

I would just go ahead and edit out that last claim at the end. It seems unlikely that someone of your experience (please don't take offense) would have a substantial grasp on what it takes to be an effective player in neurosurgery. Just my 2 cents. Try to cater your PS for an audience who first would really like to be convinced that you would even be a good physician to begin with.

 

[DOApplicant021592]

I would just go ahead and edit out that last claim at the end. It seems unlikely that someone of your experience (please don't take offense) would have a substantial grasp on what it takes to be an effective player in neurosurgery. Just my 2 cents. Try to cater your PS for an audience who first would really like to be convinced that you would even be a good physician to begin with.

Thanks for the advice. No, I do not take offense, and to be honest, things have changed in my life that have caused me to reconsider it anyway. At one point I was willing to give up everything for it, but now the idea of a family has been weighing more heavily, and I don't think I am willing to make that sacrifice. This doesn't mean that surgery of any kind has been removed from consideration, but I simply have more factors to consider now.

 

[mathnerd88]

I agree with the above. The neurosurgery thing kind of stuck out like a sore thumb. Nothing in that paragraph really sounds like you know much about what neurosurgery really entails. I don't see a connection from that paragraph which would lead you to want to do neurosurgery.

 

[j4pac]

The only red flags I see might be the sGPA or your PS. In terms of application, you may come across as an MD-preferring student who is merely using DO as a backup. Schools like WesternU and PCOM probably don't care at all about that due to regional prestige, but as far as I know, they're wary of students who seem like they'll hold onto DO acceptances until any MD school accepts them. I'm not sure, but mentioning neurosurgery might also add to this perception.

If DO adcom don't know that they are a backup plan to 99% of applicants...then they are idiots. But I do agree...the OP needs to apply more broadly. I think that he can possibly get in with his current stats, so I wouldn't retake classes yet. If he fails to get an acceptance, grade forgiveness would be my next step.