In the long run...Is it worth it?

[USArmyDoc]

I understand we are on the path and there is more to learn.

I guess what everyone is complaining about is certain specialties, well my answer to that is, choose your specialty wisely. I feel like I will end up in ER exactly because of this, shift work and no call.

These are things to think about. If someone choses a demanding specialty and then is upset because it is demanding, that sounds silly to me.

Bennie,

You are missing the point. I do not mind picking a demanding specialty! I like IM regardless of how hard you work, but whats wrong with wanting to get paid well?

The world runs on money don't kid yourself.Its nice seeing your patients do well and making money! The best of both worlds. I get SOOO happy when I see a patient make a total 180 after coming in with a COPD exacerbation. It is very rewarding.

My friend told me this quote..."My work is driven by passion, but it has to be profitable in proportion to the effort I put in."

---

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[BennieBlanco]

LOL....who said we want to work less than average hours, endure no hardships and get hand outs?

Are you kidding me?

I will be starting an IM residency next year and I can promise you that they work MUCH more than average hours. ~80 hrs per week

What hand outs do I want? And yes I want to get paid well

lol. I probably didn't read all of your posts. I just keep hearing all these people talking about how medicine is hell and I jumped to a conclusion that you were in that boat.

My mistake.

I've worked 70 hrs a week before, so I can imagine 80. It is hard but it isn't forever. Good luck to you. I'm sure you realize that even with all your struggles you are much better off than over half of the people on this planet, who also work very hard in poor conditions and get paid not even 1/100 of what you will be making later in life.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Bennie,

You are missing the point. I do not mind picking a demanding specialty! I like IM regardless of how hard you work, but whats wrong with wanting to get paid well?

The world runs on money don't kid yourself.

I actually agree with you. My fault I jumped to conclusions.

I was in sales at a large bank, so I understand the money play. It's all we worked for.

If you work hard and train hard, you should be rewarded. And I believe you will be. My bad, and good luck!

 

[Brent8927]

Quote:
Person living in a 3rd world country:

Remove the furniture in your home, leave only a few old blankets, a kitchen table and a wooden chair, remember you've never had a bed.

Throw out your clothes, each family member can keep his/her oldest suit or dress and suit or blouse. The head of the family can keep his or her shoes.

No kitchen appliances allowed, keep a box of matches a small bag of flour, some sugar and salt, a few onions and a dish of dried beans. Rescue them older potatoes from the garbage can, they are tonight's meal.

dismantle the bedroom, shut off the running water, take out the wiring, the lights and everything that is run by electricity. Take away the house and move the family into the tool shed.

Cancel the newspaper and magazine subscriptions and throw out your books you won't miss them because you are illiterate. No radio or TV either. No more mail carrier, fire fighters, or gov't services. The 2 classroom school is 3 miles away. No hospital or doctor, the closest clinic is 10 miles away with a midwife in charge. Get there by bus or bicycle, if you have one.

... Your net worth is $5.

Start cultivating your 3 acres of land, try hard to raise $300 in cash crops of which your landlord gets 1/3 and your money lender gets 10%.

Find a way for your children to bring in a little money so that you have enough money to eat most days. But it won't be enough to keep you healthy so lop off 25-30 years of your life expectancy.

Did you know, our newspaper carriers make more money than 66% of all the working people in the world who have full time jobs?

that's a really nicely worded quote. My girlfriend read a great book. I think it's "No Complaining" or "The No Complaining Rule." It sounds kind of like a silly self-help book, which is kind of is, but when you actually try and go a whole day without complaining, you really realize how important your attitude really is. That then motivates you to go a week, month, year, and so one, without complaining.

I was a case manager for a year and have clients who were single-mothers with HIV/AIDS. Some of the others had tried committing suicide, and/or had some serious mental health problems. Some of them were still depressed and had bad attitudes, but I was surprised by how many of them were incredibly positive and happy.

It's really all about attitude. The majority of our ancestors, like medieval serfs, had very little control over their own position in life. But they all had full control over their inner life, and a lot of them lived very happy lives. Some people just always make the most with what they have

 

[BennieBlanco]

that's a really nicely worded quote. My girlfriend read a great book. I think it's "No Complaining" or "The No Complaining Rule." It sounds kind of like a silly self-help book, which is kind of is, but when you actually try and go a whole day without complaining, you really realize how important your attitude really is. That then motivates you to go a week, month, year, and so one, without complaining.

I was a case manager for a year and have clients who were single-mothers with HIV/AIDS. Some of the others had tried committing suicide, and/or had some serious mental health problems. Some of them were still depressed and had bad attitudes, but I was surprised by how many of them were incredibly positive and happy.

It's really all about attitude. The majority of our ancestors, like medieval serfs, had very little control over their own position in life. But they all had full control over their inner life, and a lot of them lived very happy lives. Some people just always make the most with what they have

Thank you!

I love positive people. We can be in medicine and be grateful and love what we do. Yes it is hard, yet at the same time we are very lucky. We have things better than we realize if we just stop and think!

I will probably go buy this "no complaining" book, as I also struggle with it.

 

[anonymousername]

[YOUTUBE]pDTrDqxUQNw[/YOUTUBE]

pure genius

 

[USArmyDoc]

I actually agree with you. My fault I jumped to conclusions.

I was in sales at a large bank, so I understand the money play. It's all we worked for.

If you work hard and train hard, you should be rewarded. And I believe you will be. My bad, and good luck!

Alright man.....best of luck and think wisely. Medicine is fun, but also look from our point of view. I was in the OR during a bypass and a valve replacement and the physicians were sitting there saying how bad medicine is. How do you think that makes us feel when we are just starting out?

 

[BennieBlanco]

My friend told me this quote..."My work is driven by passion, but it has to be profitable in proportion to the effort I put in."

I agree 100%. I misread what you were saying earlier.

I hope you do well! Glad you are in the field you love.

Alright man.....best of luck and think wisely. Medicine is fun, but also look from our point of view. I was in the OR during a bypass and a valve replacement and the physicians were sitting there saying how bad medicine is. How do you think that makes us feel when we are just starting out?

agreed. I think most people in the world are negative, but we can be the elite few that, despite being in difficult situations, have excellent attitudes and are grateful for everyday. Even when the hours are long and the breaks are brief.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I agree 100%. I misread what you were saying earlier.

I hope you do well! Glad you are in the field you love.

Glad this ended in a positive manner....lol....best of luck

 

[BennieBlanco]

pure genius

possible the greatest comedy of our time.

 

[USArmyDoc]

possible the greatest comedy of our time.

That was funny and does highlight the positives of being in medicine. Not to be redundant but its so awesome when you are paged to the ER to rule out chest pain. You read the EKG which is a challenge in itself. It may or may not show some abnormalities. Even if it does you need to apply it in context of the clinical setting. As you sit there carefully deciphering the patients signs and symptoms while having different diagnosis brewing in your mind, it is so hard! But isn't that the fun part of medicine? Many times is will turn out to be to be musculoskeletal or benign angina that requires simple medical treatment, but there will be those couple times when its an MI! You think quick and treat the patient appropriately saving their life!

Whats better than that? But it would be nice to see it pay off financially and I do not think there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Labslave]

Having only gone through four years of medical school, take what I say with a grain of salt.

It's a totally personal matter, but I would have to think long and hard about entering medicine again. I like the medicine itself and consider it a privilege to know what I know. It's also nice to know that I'll be relatively well compensated in the future for what I'll be doing.

That being said, the patients can really suck the life out of you.

I think what surprised me more than anything is that the patients in many cases are just genuinely irritating. It's so hard for someone who hasn't gone through it to understand, but when you have to deal with your third COPDer of the day coming into a family clinic who's complaining about how they're out of breath going up the stairs and it's all your fault, you start to get it. When one of your inpatients tries to hustle you for narcs by having his girlfriend call the hospital and pretend to be his doctor, you get it. When you are in a post-op surgery clinic and have to take the staples out of a stinky 350 lb woman's groin (who hasn't bathed in forever) because she has hydradenitis, only to find a piece of her jewelry hidden in the fat folds around her labia that she had been looking for for the past week (true story), you really get it.

Granted, these people are only a small percentage of the patients you see, but for some docs, they ruin the whole batch.

Then you consider all the time constraints, disrespectful people, stress of student debt, lack of tort reform, and pending cuts in reimbursement during a time in which you're sleep-deprived, and it's easy to imagine how you could wind up asking yourself, "What the hell was I thinking?"

Like I said before, I still do like the actual medicine itself. I'm currently applying for residency and like my chosen field, but I don't know if I like it enough to do it all over again.

Don't let my words discourage you from being passionate about medicine, but I would encourage you to learn as much as possible before it's too late.

 

[Brent8927]

Thank you!

I love positive people. We can be in medicine and be grateful and love what we do. Yes it is hard, yet at the same time we are very lucky. We have things better than we realize if we just stop and think!

I will probably go buy this "no complaining" book, as I also struggle with it.

I totally agree. The reason Loyola was my first choice was because of how happy and positive the students, faculty, and physicians were. To me that was more important than rankings. When you're surrounded by people that energize you and make you happy, it makes the difficult times a lot easier.

Lol... yeah, I need to re-read the book--I still struggle with complaining too.

possible the greatest comedy of our time.

Whoa... The greatest comedy of our time is most certainly a Mel Brooks movie.

 

[Dr Lyss]

Dr. Lyss,

I hate taking this road but you are a first year correct? You may understand this more when you are about to graduate and enter residency. I am amazed at how much 1st and 2nd years try to lecture people regarding what medicine is like beyond books. Its fun, but it is also really hard.

Yea I am a lowly 1st year with my nose stuck in a biochem book at the moment, BUT I'm also someone who did A LOT of HW before I went into med school and chose this career path. I'm not lecturing anyone (sorry if it came off like that) because I have no experience with the actual practice of medicine... but I still think knowledge is power and knowing as much as possible about what to expect before you get there would prevent people from picking medicine for all the wrong reasons.

I don't disagree with you & your posts. The pay sucks, especially as a resident, and it must be really hard to work so hard and feel like you have little monetarily to show for it. But I know this is coming. I knew that was part of the deal before I signed up for this. I know that's part of the cost of going into medicine. I tried to find out everything I could about the good, the bad, and the ugly before I applied.... so I won't be shocked and wishing I wasn't doing this crap when I get to that point (I hope). I'm sure I'll still be b*tching, but if someone regrets going into this or is surprised, then I think they didn't do their homework.


but what do I know, right?

 

[UAAWolf]

I don't know dude. I know a lot of doctors in my community who are always happy and cheerful and they never seem to have a bad time. I'm sure it's just a phase or something.

SSRI imo lol...

 

[USArmyDoc]

Yea I am a lowly 1st year with my nose stuck in a biochem book at the moment, BUT I'm also someone who did A LOT of HW before I went into med school and chose this career path. I'm not lecturing anyone (sorry if it came off like that) because I have no experience with the actual practice of medicine... but I still think knowledge is power and knowing as much as possible about what to expect before you get there would prevent people from picking medicine for all the wrong reasons.

I don't disagree with you & your posts. The pay sucks, especially as a resident, and it must be really hard to work so hard and feel like you have little monetarily to show for it. But I know this is coming. I knew that was part of the deal before I signed up for this. I know that's part of the cost of going into medicine. I tried to find out everything I could about the good, the bad, and the ugly before I applied.... so I won't be shocked and wishing I wasn't doing this crap when I get to that point (I hope). I'm sure I'll still be b*tching, but if someone regrets going into this or is surprised, then I think they didn't do their homework.


but what do I know, right?

No, I didn't say you don't know anything. I was trying to illicit the point that Labslave did....I don't know if I would do it again either. I like the subject of medicine but what is coming for our profession is worrisome and rightfully so.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I totally agree. The reason Loyola was my first choice was because of how happy and positive the students, faculty, and physicians were. To me that was more important than rankings. When you're surrounded by people that energize you and make you happy, it makes the difficult times a lot easier.

Lol... yeah, I need to re-read the book--I still struggle with complaining too.



Whoa... The greatest comedy of our time is most certainly a Mel Brooks movie.

Obviously they arn't going to tell you medical school blows to your face...lol

 

[Brent8927]

Obviously they arn't going to tell you medical school blows to your face...lol

I respect you have your own feelings and that's OK. But you're definitely mistaken if you think I'm naive enough to not recognize when people are genuinely happy. I was a peer counselor for two years, and a case manager for one year, and you learn to pick up on the little involuntary signals that people give when you sit and actively listen to them for an hour.

For the record some medical students did tell me medical school blows. However, at Loyola, not only did none tell me medicine blows, but they were very passionate about Loyola. I'm not saying this is by any means unique to Loyola, but I am saying it was the right place for me. I don't know if your a spiritual or religions person, but I am, and I do believe there is a reason I am where I am.

Lastly, I'm not sure why you're being negative towards me--I haven't criticized you or given any reason for you to attack me, other than the fact I am happy and passionate about medicine and my medical school.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I respect you have your own feelings and that's OK. But you're definitely mistaken if you think I'm naive enough to not recognize when people are genuinely happy. I was a peer counselor for two years, and a case manager for one year, and you learn to pick up on the little involuntary signals that people give when you sit and actively listen to them for an hour.

For the record some medical students did tell me medical school blows. However, at Loyola, not only did none tell me medicine blows, but they were very passionate about Loyola. I'm not saying this is by any means unique to Loyola, but I am saying it was the right place for me. I don't know if your a spiritual or religions person, but I am, and I do believe there is a reason I am where I am.

Lastly, I'm not sure why you're being negative towards me--I haven't criticized you or given any reason for you to attack me, other than the fact I am happy and passionate about medicine and my medical school.

Alright man, I am sorry. I wasn't meaning to be negative towards you I am being negative towards medicine...lol

I did hear that about Loyola though. It's a very good school.

 

[FloatOn]

Maybe we can all agree on one thing: there will be many difficult, annoying patients and frustrating days when all we want to do is ask "Why did I choose this?" but it's those random moments and grateful patients that make us remember why we did choose what we did. When I shadowed a neurosurgeon a couple of years ago, a man with Parkinson's came in for a follow-up to his successful deep brain stimulation surgery. He and his wife became emotional which made me want to get emotional. All the doctor could do was nod his head and smile humbly. That moment quite possibly made my entire year.

 

[Brent8927]

Alright man, I am sorry. I wasn't meaning to be negative towards you I am being negative towards medicine...lol

I did hear that about Loyola though. It's a very good school.

Wow... I'm impressed/jealous at how quickly you apologized, and that you did it in the first place; it's not something you see everyday.

I'm not kidding at all. It's very humbling. Geez, I'm sorry too--I kind of lashed back at you and took what you said personally, though now I know it wasn't mean to be personal. I can definitely be self-centered sometimes.

Lol... It's kind of ironic considering I was just talking about being able to understand people's true feelings...

 

[USArmyDoc]

Maybe we can all agree on one thing: there will be many difficult, annoying patients and frustrating days when all we want to do is ask "Why did I choose this?" but it's those random moments and grateful patients that make us remember why we did choose what we did. When I shadowed a neurosurgeon a couple of years ago, a man with Parkinson's came in for a follow-up to his successful deep brain stimulation surgery. He and his wife became emotional which made me want to get emotional. All the doctor could do was nod his head and smile humbly. That moment quite possibly made my entire year.

 

[Brent8927]

Maybe we can all agree on one thing: there will be many difficult, annoying patients and frustrating days when all we want to do is ask "Why did I choose this?" but it's those random moments and grateful patients that make us remember why we did choose what we did. When I shadowed a neurosurgeon a couple of years ago, a man with Parkinson's came in for a follow-up to his successful deep brain stimulation surgery. He and his wife became emotional which made me want to get emotional. All the doctor could do was nod his head and smile humbly. That moment quite possibly made my entire year.

Nicely worded.

 

[Depakote]

I've made a few observations... the people who complained about studying all the time first and second year are the same people who have been complaining about 3rd year (the work, the attitudes, etc). The people that coped well and had positive attitudes the first two years have stayed positive. I'm willing to bet that these people were like that before med school and will probably be like that after they're done with residency.


Some people are just complainers, they look for something to ruin their day and then let it. It's not medicine that does it it's their attitudes. Look around you, I bet you'll recognize plenty of people that are like this outside medicine too.


You can be happy in medicine, but it depends on how you approach the field not the state the field is in when you get there.

 

[inteleric1983]

Opportunity cost man...But if your really concerned about it don't do it, though I think you'll regret it if your pretty serious. I do not regret the things I've done, but those I did not do.

 

[mrivera]

Hi guys, I have something to ask.

Today I was @ my doc because of a folliculitis that's been killing me recently. I went in, everything normal, but then, when I went to see my doc, he was like: What do you want?(In a very depressed way.) I didn't dare to ask if something was wrong, but anyway, I considered that I as a patient should not be treated this way. I almost diagnosed myself(I told him what I thought was needed to relieve it), as if, I was using him not to get advice but to get the prescription with his name on it so I could go get the medication. He didn't even checked if anything else was wrong, or something else he could do for me, etc.

Now my question, why are so many physicians so sad and depressed? My uncle is in internal medicine and he is also the same way. I remember when I was a little kid and I went to his office, he was so happy everytime. Now you can see him so "gray". I know a lot of doctors in many specialties and when they're young they are full of life, when they are experienced they look like if crazy to end their years and retire.

Is medicine worth it as a career? I DO NOT want to end like them. I want to end (not fairy tale happy) but happy nonetheless. I know there are problems but a person should not carry so much weight around (figuratively lol).

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think not everyone has a "suited" personality for medicine. It takes a kind of person (I've seen some physicians, experienced ones, that still are excited to get up and serve people like they're supposed to.).

It is good that you're asking this question now. I personally think you should switch careers

 

[jvesco22]

I've made a few observations... the people who complained about studying all the time first and second year are the same people who have been complaining about 3rd year (the work, the attitudes, etc). The people that coped well and had positive attitudes the first two years have stayed positive. I'm willing to bet that these people were like that before med school and will probably be like that after they're done with residency.


Some people are just complainers, they look for something to ruin their day and then let it. It's not medicine that does it it's their attitudes. Look around you, I bet you'll recognize plenty of people that are like this outside medicine too.


You can be happy in medicine, but it depends on how you approach the field not the state the field is in when you get there.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Well said.

 

[BPlaysItCool]

Well. Nobody can rain on the optimism parade that is trumpeted about in premed circles. It's like a cynic going to a pentecostal revival. But here I am.

I've worked in health care for 10 years. About half the time some of yall have been on the planet. And have bootstrapped myself into a medical school acceptance by some rougher means. Just so you know where I am coming from.

What settles over me after the narratives of struggle we tell ourselves in doubt and agony have faded. Is fatalism. I've been a patient in this mf'er too. Something many of might not experience for a handful of decades.

The whole project is dubious. The body heals itself when the owner takes care of it. Hospitals are dangerous plague-ridden ****holes. Hierarchy, dogma, abuse, and bureaucracy are the hallmarks of modern medicine. Despite what the techno-prophets and camp counselors tell you.

Yeah bennie. I've hauled cinder blocks, laid tar on hot roofs in 100 degree florida heat. Slugged my way through moving bodies around these halls for a decade. So am I supposed to be subdued into cheering the whole thing just because one thing is better than another. No.

I'm doing this thing. Kepping myself together. And looking for the least hassle venue. I don't think this place is worth saving. It's inhabitants are ungrateful slobs. Even though I'm perfectly amenable to positive interactions with people--colleagues and patients--as we scuttle over the cliff.

But I enjoy reality. Not fluffy visions of the hereafter. Where the good people play harps.

Smoke on that.

 

[melanoleuca]

But you see, while the practice of medicine may be rewarding, most of what you do as a physician is not related to the actual practice of medicine and in many cases, detracts from it. There is so much bureaucracy and truly idiotic paperwork in it, for example, that many people opt for academic careers strictly because they can have their residents handle the massive administrative burden, a burden that increases every year with no possibility of relief.

Add to this that three quarters of American medicine is ridiculous and unnecessary (especially in my specialty) and you can see why many physicians might be a tad disgruntled.

The "Well, Every Profession Is Like This" defense is not really a defense. At best it's an acknowledgment that our country is becoming a crappy, over-regulated, over-governed, nursing home full of bureaucratic drones in non-productive jobs whose living depends on generating useless bureaucracy.

 

[KingstonPre]

As health care reform comes into play... everyone who's just in it for the money will leave for something more lucrative... giving up their seats to those who truly admire the profession

 

[MaximusD]

You're wrong....a doctor is forced to practice defensive medicine and now work with the government to treat someone....you are forced to practice in a certain way.

Why so disgruntled? (pm the response...) Are you still c/o 2010 or are you in my class now?

 

[298609]

The moment you begin to live you begin to die.


...yeah...

 

[FIREitUP]

The moment you begin to live you begin to die.


...yeah...

the moment i started reading this thread i began to die.

 

[avksx]

Why so disgruntled? (pm the response...) Are you still c/o 2010 or are you in my class now?

This was a terrible reason to bump a month old thread.