In your opinion, what is the most overrated aspect of the admissions process?

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Trust me. Just trust me. It's physician-shadowing. Not a single interviewer has asked me about my shadowing experience and only wanted to get to know how I decided that I wanted to be a physician, my non-medical volunteering, my performing arts ECs, research, and other non-medically related club work. I had one interviewer tell me flat out and rather casually; "yea, shadowing doesn't really mean anything. It doesn't tell us anything about you or your motivation for medicine."

 

[hiyaman]

i learned and took away a lot more from shadowing than i did volunteering. i think shadowing gives you a better idea of medicine, while volunteering shows you "care". Though, there's only so much you gain by shadowing. excessive shadowing is not going to beneficial. By the same token, excessive volunteering gotta seem pretty worthless too. Should adcoms really care that johnny boy spent 4 years of his life sitting in the er and icu or whatever "caring" about people?

If anything, i would think a diverse volunteer and/or shadowing experiences would be better than excessive volunteering/shadowing at 1-2 places.

+1!

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

If you can write an outstanding PS then it definitely helps, otherwise we are all the same. Idk why everyone says shadowing is so useless. I got a lot out of shadowing. I followed in a ton of specialties, went on rounds, grand rounds, translated for non-English speaking patients, and also got to see all of the BS political and economic factors that get in the way of delivering care (was the least fun bit, but important nevertheless). I think it was very useful, and it helped confirm my career choice as well. So, maybe it won't get you into a school, but it's important personally.

I'd say LORs are very underrated by most students, and many people barely know the profs that write them. Anyway, two schools I'm applying to require peer reference letters which I think is absurd. My vote goes to those.

 

[obgyny]

One poster on here was rejected from Mayo because of a lack of nonclinical volunteering. IIRC.

Really? Why is nonclinical volunteering specifically so important?

 

[farrago]

Really? Why is nonclinical volunteering specifically so important?

Because people on admission committees have nothing better to do.

I wonder how many of those admissions committee members regularly do non-medical volunteer work. Or what percentage of physicians regularly engage in such.

 

[SunnyFlower288]

Personal statement. I have read so many that just sound contrived or exaggerated.

 

[Yaphet]

I just don't get people saying the personal statement. Isn't the fact that so many of them are mediocre and robotic make writing a good or great one that much better? Obviously if it's just like 80% of the essays it probably won't hurt you but I don't see how writing one of the top 20% of essays couldn't help.

 

[Astarael]

Idk why everyone says shadowing is so useless.

So, maybe it won't get you into a school, but it's important personally.

I think you answered your own question. It isn't useless in the sense that it will give you a really good idea of what being a doctor is all about. However, as far as admissions goes, it's not that important.

 

[apumic]

I think you answered your own question. It isn't useless in the sense that it will give you a really good idea of what being a doctor is all about. However, as far as admissions goes, it's not that important.

The thing is.... it doesn't. Most docs aren't likely to be all that frank about things with someone who is basically a complete stranger. Chances are that while you've seen certain aspects of medicine while shadowing, you missed most of the "real fun":

• Billing/Insurance
• Dealing with Nursing Administration
• Legal paperwork
• Hellish nurses and patients (most will hopefully be a bit better-behaved when a student is watching.... although certainly not always)
• Charting/Documentation

It seems to me that for most pre-meds, shadowing is generally just the interesting part (e.g., rounding, observing procedures, etc.).


As for the admissions side, it's probably worth nothing beyond a simple "did you do it?" The fact is anything beyond that makes little difference in your knowledge of medicine. You're likely to hit a point of diminishing returns within only a few hours of beginning to work w/ a given doc/specialty and more than a few specialties (well-chosen) is going to cover most of what you really can expect to learn at the pre-med level w/o actually getting your hands dirty.


Obviously, I'd say shadowing and getting shadowing LORs. As long as you shadow a few times, you'll be golden. Get your LORs from someone that has more to talk about than your physical attractiveness and gate.

 

[toff4l]

Wow, I'm getting the feeling that non-clinical volunteering is very useful maybe more useful than the clinical stuff.

If this is true, than I need to start changing some of my plans as I have a lot of hospital based stuff.

And regarding shadowing, did some of you ever get the feeling that the doc wanted you to leave sooner than later? I got my first shadowing experience through a doctor friend who knew someone. They were nice to me but I got some vibes that they only wanted me there for the afternoon and that was it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say GPA is overrated and the personal statement and LOR's are underrated. GPA, as long as it is competitive, has some wiggle room. At least that's what I've noticed from all my friends who are in med school.

 

[eli20]

Hmm... I kind of disagree with personal statement being overrated. Based on my interviews I think it was a large component of why I got an interview at a few of the places I did. I think for the 80% of personal statements that read exactly the same this may be true, but I feel like it is also a space where you can distinguish yourself.

I would say the thing I spent way too much time on was writing descriptions for activities on the app. Virtually no one read these and I should have just submitted my Texas descriptions (which have a VERY small character limit - ~200? I think) for my AMCAS instead of rewriting to fill their much larger character limit.

 

[LizzyM]

Because people on admission committees have nothing better to do.

I wonder how many of those admissions committee members regularly do non-medical volunteer work. Or what percentage of physicians regularly engage in such.

Medicine is all about service to others. It is good to see that an applicant has made a habit of selfless service.

Many physicians I know (academic medical center) engage in volunteer work. By virtue of their specialized skills they most often engage in medical volunteering although there are those who also involve themselves in advocacy (communicating with legislators regarding things like smoking bans).

I am a non-physician adcom member and I engage in face-to-face service to the poor on a regular basis (at least once a month) as part of a formal organization. If you have compassionate for those who need help, and you have the means to help, why would you not do so?

 

[Narmerguy]

Hmm... I kind of disagree with personal statement being overrated. Based on my interviews I think it was a large component of why I got an interview at a few of the places I did. I think for the 80% of personal statements that read exactly the same this may be true, but I feel like it is also a space where you can distinguish yourself.

I would say the thing I spent way too much time on was writing descriptions for activities on the app. Virtually no one read these and I should have just submitted my Texas descriptions (which have a VERY small character limit - ~200? I think) for my AMCAS instead of rewriting to fill their much larger character limit.

I'm not sure I'd agree it's an 80-20 ratio. Probably more like 90-10. For an entire group to focus on a part of admissions that probably only 10% have a real shot at scoring in makes it seem pretty overrated.

Also, most schools will assign secondaries, and ask interviews about stuff related to what you cover in your PS. It just seems like a lot of stress goes into it when, even if it sucked, you have multiple opportunities to restate the same stuff at a different stage in the application process.

 

[NickNaylor]

Hmm... I kind of disagree with personal statement being overrated. Based on my interviews I think it was a large component of why I got an interview at a few of the places I did. I think for the 80% of personal statements that read exactly the same this may be true, but I feel like it is also a space where you can distinguish yourself.

I would say the thing I spent way too much time on was writing descriptions for activities on the app. Virtually no one read these and I should have just submitted my Texas descriptions (which have a VERY small character limit - ~200? I think) for my AMCAS instead of rewriting to fill their much larger character limit.

As our pre-health director put it, with the exception of maybe 1-2% of truly exceptional applicants, the PS can only hurt you rather than help you. A decent PS will keep you in the process. A bad PS will give you the boot. The PS to YOU might be the most personalized, significant, etc. aspect of your application, but I imagine that once you've read 4000+ in the course of a cycle they all start to sound the same.

 

[Ride Big Sky]

While I think a lot of the PS can only harm a lot of people I also think it's often overlooked by students to a great degree. I actually had three different interviewers (2 different schools) say that the reason for my getting an interview was the PS or that it was the first time they had read a PS with XYZ in it. This isn't to say I'm uber unique or have done some extraordinary things to include in it, because that couldn't be further from the truth. Just take the time to compose a good essay. You want the adcoms to be able to read the PS and get an understanding of who you are and why you are doing this/what drives you. Everything else is just the icing on the cake.

 

[Ride Big Sky]

The most overrated part of the process and what people worry way too much about is the descriptions for activities. Keep it short and to the point. Hyping up a bs activity into something its not is soooo easy to spot and makes you look like a turd.

 

[NickNaylor]

The most overrated part of the process and what people worry way too much about is the descriptions for activities. Keep it short and to the point. Hyping up a bs activity into something its not is soooo easy to spot and makes you look like a turd.

I'd agree that hyping up lame activities is stupid, but I think that giving an important portrait of each activity is extremely important. For the majority of my descriptions I wrote at least 900 characters, and for a few I used the entire space. Except for particularly obvious activities, you have to remember that adcoms may not know anything about X club. Leaving out information for the sake of being short seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[drizzt3117]

Physician shadowing isnt a realistic view of what medicine is like. First of all, you're shadowing an attending physician, which is at least 7-8 years away for premeds. Second of all, the vast majority of people are only going to allow shadowing in a controlled environment when everything is going well. I think clinical volunteering gives you a somewhat better view.

 

[90minIPA]

Physician shadowing isnt a realistic view of what medicine is like. First of all, you're shadowing an attending physician, which is at least 7-8 years away for premeds. Second of all, the vast majority of people are only going to allow shadowing in a controlled environment when everything is going well. I think clinical volunteering gives you a somewhat better view.

Why does this make shadowing less realistic? Most pre-meds are interested in seeing the day-to-day work of an attending, because they'll (hopefully) be an attending for 25+ years of their lives. Sure, the 7-8 year experience of being a student is a tremendous challenge, and prospective students need to understand what they're getting into. But shadowing provides a reasonably accurate snapshot of what you'll be doing once you've made it through the gauntlet.

 

[farrago]

Physician shadowing isnt a realistic view of what medicine is like. First of all, you're shadowing an attending physician, which is at least 7-8 years away for premeds. Second of all, the vast majority of people are only going to allow shadowing in a controlled environment when everything is going well. I think clinical volunteering gives you a somewhat better view.

... of the linen closet...

Seriously, I don't get the shadowing hate. Yeah, you're a useless turd, but you get to see what that type of physician does over the course of the day. I mean, we're supposed to be shadowing physicians - if you want people to know what their life will be like over the next 8 years, maybe you should make them shadow medical students and residents. 😕

 

[NickNaylor]

I definitely learned more from shadowing than volunteering if we're talking about what to expect your work to look like as a physician.

 

[apumic]

... of the linen closet...

Seriously, I don't get the shadowing hate. Yeah, you're a useless turd, but you get to see what that type of physician does over the course of the day. I mean, we're supposed to be shadowing physicians - if you want people to know what their life will be like over the next 8 years, maybe you should make them shadow medical students and residents. 😕

Shadowing a few hours is one thing but shadowing for in excess of about 40 is going to see very fast diminishing returns, which is something you really cannot afford as a med school applicant.

If you're primarily seeing the linen closet as a volunteer, then find a better volunteering gig. Get out of the hospital for one thing.

 

[Astarael]

The thing is.... it doesn't. Most docs aren't likely to be all that frank about things with someone who is basically a complete stranger. Chances are that while you've seen certain aspects of medicine while shadowing, you missed most of the "real fun":

I guess I could amend my statement to say that shadowing will give you the best idea possible of what a doctor does that you can get as a pre-med. I mean, compare it to anything else that you can do in a hospital as a pre-med. At least you're with the doctor for the time you are shadowing. I agree that you don't get the full picture, but I had a better idea of what a doctor does after two days of shadowing than I did after a year and a half of volunteering. That definitely makes it worth the time, for me.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

I think you answered your own question. It isn't useless in the sense that it will give you a really good idea of what being a doctor is all about. However, as far as admissions goes, it's not that important.

I guess I did answer my own question. I need to stop rambling.

First of all, you're shadowing an attending physician, which is at least 7-8 years away for premeds.

That's why I shadowed a Neuro intern just out of medical school 👍.

 

[charju]

i felt my shadowing was very rewarding. One, i was able to observe a very good model of the"teamwork" that so many schools have asked in their secondaries.
two I have seen not only the patient part but also have seen the boring/bs part, which is like paperwork, meetings between the resident and attending bout life/who to see next week, and the bureaucratic part (CMS gave a quick visit that left everyone in dread)
three, my physician actually cared about me and we engaged in a hour long conversation about life. (so i guess this doesnt happen all the time)
four, my shadowing has allowed me to see a lot of cross department collaboration.
five, i go for almost a whole day, so i think its a better approach than just going in during clinic. I follow residents as well as attendings.a department approach is better than a single physician approach imo.

jus my 2 cents

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Really? Why is nonclinical volunteering specifically so important?

Here's a photo pulled directly from Mayo's secondary application instructions explaining the process of getting accepted into medical school.

 

[slatermd]

Here's a photo pulled directly from Mayo's secondary application instructions explaining the process of getting accepted into medical school.

doesn't look like he's going to make it...poor guy

EDIT: maybe he's on an upward trajectory AND preparing to do a front-flip before sticking the landing.

 

[aSagacious]

Here's a photo pulled directly from Mayo's secondary application instructions explaining the process of getting accepted into medical school.

, I love that the hoops are at an upward incline (unless it's just the camera angle)




(...yes I know it's 'shopped)

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say GPA is overrated and the personal statement and LOR's are underrated. GPA, as long as it is competitive, has some wiggle room. At least that's what I've noticed from all my friends who are in med school.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your GPA isn't great and you expect to get great LOR's from your various advisors/professors.

Just how these types of pontifications tend to work out.

 

[NickNaylor]

Here's a photo pulled directly from Mayo's secondary application instructions explaining the process of getting accepted into medical school.

I lol'd.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Personal statement. I have read so many that just sound contrived or exaggerated.

I'll 👍 this one. Once some of you go through the app cycle and start reading some PS's from friends/classmates/SDNers, you will be sickened by the lack of writing skill or talent. I can't imagine being on an adcom and wading through hundreds of them.

 

[aSagacious]

doesn't look like he's going to make it...poor guy

EDIT: maybe he's on an upward trajectory AND preparing to do a front-flip before sticking the landing.

Darn it, Med, you must have beat me by ten seconds...

 

[apumic]

I guess I could amend my statement to say that shadowing will give you the best idea possible of what a doctor does that you can get as a pre-med. I mean, compare it to anything else that you can do in a hospital as a pre-med. At least you're with the doctor for the time you are shadowing. I agree that you don't get the full picture, but I had a better idea of what a doctor does after two days of shadowing than I did after a year and a half of volunteering. That definitely makes it worth the time, for me.

I guess to me that says you probably should have found a better volunteer gig. Now, if you knew the doc beforehand (i.e., close family friend or coworker) you may have seen more but if you're shadowing someone to whom you are basically a random premed, you're not as likely to see certain things or hear their true feelings about certain aspects of the job.

 

[farrago]

I guess to me that says you probably should have found a better volunteer gig. Now, if you knew the doc beforehand (i.e., close family friend or coworker) you may have seen more but if you're shadowing someone to whom you are basically a random premed, you're not as likely to see certain things or hear their true feelings about certain aspects of the job.

Dude, not everyone can find a "better" volunteer gig. We're not all awesome like you. 🙄

 

[motomed]

I'll 👍 this one. Once some of you go through the app cycle and start reading some PS's from friends/classmates/SDNers, you will be sickened by the lack of writing skill or talent. I can't imagine being on an adcom and wading through hundreds of them.

which is why I feel like writing one that doesn't suck is a big plus. what other opportunity do you have with the application to leave the reader intrigued?

just because so many people can't pull it off doesn't mean it isn't highly valuable if you do.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

which is why I feel like writing one that doesn't suck is a big plus. what other opportunity do you have with the application to leave the reader intrigued?

just because so many people can't pull it off doesn't mean it isn't highly valuable if you do.

No, it just means that I intrinsically doubt any individual's self-proclaimed ability to do so.

 

[pdxjazz]

I think in a way the in-person interviews are outdated and a waste of time and money. With today's video technology there is no burning reason why these interviews can't be done through alternative methods. Considering the small percentage of accepted students compared to the number they interview, there is a little reason to require an applicant to visit the school. The combined costs financially, in time spent, and in resources used to get an applicant across the country for the slim chance they may actually get an acceptance puts a needless strain on mid and long-distance applicants. It also unevens the interview playing field as a local applicant will probably come across much better than one that has travelled all day to an unfamiliar city in perhaps a different time zone and is feeling jet-lagged. And we all know how much more difficult airline travel is these days.

I can understand if an applicant has multiple acceptances and would like to visit a medical school or two (or more) to take a look at the schools' facilities, get a feel of the student's, and check out the surrounding area to help with their final decision. Otherwise, and adcom and an applicant chatting for a half hour via some sort of videoconference screen makes much more sense. And a school's website could be a valuable substitute for actually being there with a well done video tour, especially for the majority that end up being rejected.

 

[NickNaylor]

I think in a way the in-person interviews are outdated and a waste of time and money. With today's video technology there is no burning reason why these interviews can't be done through alternative methods. Considering the small percentage of accepted students compared to the number they interview, there is a little reason to require an applicant to visit the school. The combined costs financially, in time spent, and in resources used to get an applicant across the country for the slim chance they may actually get an acceptance puts a needless strain on mid and long-distance applicants. It also unevens the interview playing field as a local applicant will probably come across much better than one that has travelled all day to an unfamiliar city in perhaps a different time zone and is feeling jet-lagged. And we all know how much more difficult airline travel is these days.

I can understand if an applicant has multiple acceptances and would like to visit a medical school or two (or more) to take a look at the schools' facilities, get a feel of the student's, and check out the surrounding area to help with their final decision. Otherwise, and adcom and an applicant chatting for a half hour via some sort of videoconference screen makes much more sense. And a school's website could be a valuable substitute for actually being there with a well done video tour, especially for the majority that end up being rejected.

 

[Astarael]

I guess to me that says you probably should have found a better volunteer gig. Now, if you knew the doc beforehand (i.e., close family friend or coworker) you may have seen more but if you're shadowing someone to whom you are basically a random premed, you're not as likely to see certain things or hear their true feelings about certain aspects of the job.

Maybe I'm an odd case because I shadowed a doctor full-time for two weeks. I saw surgeries, clinic, and plenty of the behind the scenes stuff. Even compensating for that, I still don't see how a volunteer would get to see as much about what a doctor does as a shadow. Volunteers are there to do work, and it's usually the easiest tasks possible because that's all they're qualified to do. I've never heard of a volunteer position that spends any appreciable amount of time with a doctor. Even if you're shadowing for a short period, you're going to see more.

Now, with all that being said, volunteering does get you some things that shadowing does not. If you want to know how a hospital works, you're gonna see more as a volunteer after a long time than you would shadowing for a short period. I just don't see how you can expect to know what a doctor does without following them around or talking to them-both things you are more likely to do whilst shadowing than volunteering. Maybe your volunteer position is different, but the majority of positions that I know of or have heard of have pretty limited contact with doctors.

 

[apumic]

Maybe I'm an odd case because I shadowed a doctor full-time for two weeks. I saw surgeries, clinic, and plenty of the behind the scenes stuff. Even compensating for that, I still don't see how a volunteer would get to see as much about what a doctor does as a shadow. Volunteers are there to do work, and it's usually the easiest tasks possible because that's all they're qualified to do. I've never heard of a volunteer position that spends any appreciable amount of time with a doctor. Even if you're shadowing for a short period, you're going to see more.

My volunteering was definitely not typical, but I have seen one or two other people on SDN mention similar experiences, so it must not be THAT rare (of course SDN is also the home of the "MCAT average is a 35 and anything less than 32 probably requires special explanation even for DO schools" attitude).

I worked closely with physicians, doing assessments prior to the doc seeing each pt. I often translated for the pt (I'm bilingual). The docs would occasionally have me write their orders for them to sign off. Whenever there is a surgical procedure to be done, I'm in there with the doc as his [acting] first assist. When we're not seeing a pt, I get to chill w/ the docs as well as the nurses and other techs. I have dinner w/ the docs every shift.

So, sure, I am working independently of the doc but I am also often there to interpret or taking down his orders. I also prep charts for him, get him anything he needs, help with pt education, etc.

I think it's a difference between "seeing" and "doing" as well. Seeing only teaches you so much if you never DO things. I've gotten to develop my bedside manner by working w/ pts on my own. Many of my physicians have stated that a number of the traits necessary are already present. (I am careful how I say that b/c many here are likely to jump on that and call it blasphemy, but I have actually had quite a few docs with whom I work say things along the lines of "you've really already got many of the skills and traits you need to be a great physician," which sounds odd to say to a post-bacc pre-med, but they have apparently seen things they like. You simply cannot learn much from shadowing beyond things to say in an interview.)

 

[motomed]

No, it just means that I intrinsically doubt any individual's self-proclaimed ability to do so.

I was complimented on my PS at every open file interview I had... I'm a nontrad though, actually had stuff to talk about....

sort of silly to assume that no PS's stand out among the thousands written...

 

[Astarael]

My volunteering was definitely not typical, but I have seen one or two other people on SDN mention similar experiences, so it must not be THAT rare (of course SDN is also the home of the "MCAT average is a 35 and anything less than 32 probably requires special explanation even for DO schools" attitude).

I worked closely with physicians, doing assessments prior to the doc seeing each pt. I often translated for the pt (I'm bilingual). The docs would occasionally have me write their orders for them to sign off. Whenever there is a surgical procedure to be done, I'm in there with the doc as his [acting] first assist. When we're not seeing a pt, I get to chill w/ the docs as well as the nurses and other techs. I have dinner w/ the docs every shift.

So, sure, I am working independently of the doc but I am also often there to interpret or taking down his orders. I also prep charts for him, get him anything he needs, help with pt education, etc.

I think it's a difference between "seeing" and "doing" as well. Seeing only teaches you so much if you never DO things. I've gotten to develop my bedside manner by working w/ pts on my own. Many of my physicians have stated that a number of the traits necessary are already present. (I am careful how I say that b/c many here are likely to jump on that and call it blasphemy, but I have actually had quite a few docs with whom I work say things along the lines of "you've really already got many of the skills and traits you need to be a great physician," which sounds odd to say to a post-bacc pre-med, but they have apparently seen things they like. You simply cannot learn much from shadowing beyond things to say in an interview.)

In that situation, I think you are definitely correct to say that shadowing would not gain you anything. I'd be interested to hear how you got involved with that position. Back when I was still working on finding a volunteer position, I would have loved to have had an opportunity like that. Unfortunately, the hospitals around my area only allowed volunteers to do most of the duties of a HUC. It was a useful way to learn about the hospital, but I definitely needed to do some shadowing to get the full picture (and I would expect that most people without such a great volunteering experience as yours are in a similar position).

 

[farrago]

My volunteering was definitely not typical, but I have seen one or two other people on SDN mention similar experiences, so it must not be THAT rare (of course SDN is also the home of the "MCAT average is a 35 and anything less than 32 probably requires special explanation even for DO schools" attitude).

Yes, it's THAT rare, unless you have certification. That's why they have Medical Assistants and CNAs and phlebotomists. And one of your parents in a physician, no?

I think it's a difference between "seeing" and "doing" as well. Seeing only teaches you so much if you never DO things. I've gotten to develop my bedside manner by working w/ pts on my own. Many of my physicians have stated that a number of the traits necessary are already present. (I am careful how I say that b/c many here are likely to jump on that and call it blasphemy, but I have actually had quite a few docs with whom I work say things along the lines of "you've really already got many of the skills and traits you need to be a great physician," which sounds odd to say to a post-bacc pre-med, but they have apparently seen things they like. You simply cannot learn much from shadowing beyond things to say in an interview.)

Yes, that's why they invented medical school, so we learn to DO things.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I was complimented on my PS at every open file interview I had... I'm a nontrad though, actually had stuff to talk about....

sort of silly to assume that no PS's stand out among the thousands written...

I don't assume that they don't exist. Mine was the same; nontrad and specifically mentioned in interviews as a strength. I'm saying that I take with a grain of salt the sentiment that "of course I'm going to write an awesome PS that will make up for my 27 MCAT!" that wafts around here. The ratio of "my PS is awesome" to "oh my, this applicant's PS is really awesome" deviates significantly from 1:1.

 

[Geekchick921]

I think in a way the in-person interviews are outdated and a waste of time and money. With today's video technology there is no burning reason why these interviews can't be done through alternative methods. Considering the small percentage of accepted students compared to the number they interview, there is a little reason to require an applicant to visit the school. The combined costs financially, in time spent, and in resources used to get an applicant across the country for the slim chance they may actually get an acceptance puts a needless strain on mid and long-distance applicants. It also unevens the interview playing field as a local applicant will probably come across much better than one that has travelled all day to an unfamiliar city in perhaps a different time zone and is feeling jet-lagged. And we all know how much more difficult airline travel is these days.

I can understand if an applicant has multiple acceptances and would like to visit a medical school or two (or more) to take a look at the schools' facilities, get a feel of the student's, and check out the surrounding area to help with their final decision. Otherwise, and adcom and an applicant chatting for a half hour via some sort of videoconference screen makes much more sense. And a school's website could be a valuable substitute for actually being there with a well done video tour, especially for the majority that end up being rejected.

I disagree. Firstly, I think interviewers want to see how you present/carry yourself in person. They want to shake your hand, see how you interact with the other staff, the current students, and the other interviewers, etc. And it goes both ways, no doubt. The impression I got from the schools where I interviewed DEFINITELY affected which school became my first choice (it was not my original first choice). Skype, a video tour and a website do not compare.

I was complimented on my PS at every open file interview I had... I'm a nontrad though, actually had stuff to talk about....

sort of silly to assume that no PS's stand out among the thousands written...

Genuine congrats to you on being complimented on your PS. I think what people are trying to say is that after reading dozens, if not hundreds, of PS's, you are so numb to what they all say that even a really good one isn't going to be THAT moving most of the time.

 

[drizzt3117]

Why does this make shadowing less realistic? Most pre-meds are interested in seeing the day-to-day work of an attending, because they'll (hopefully) be an attending for 25+ years of their lives. Sure, the 7-8 year experience of being a student is a tremendous challenge, and prospective students need to understand what they're getting into. But shadowing provides a reasonably accurate snapshot of what you'll be doing once you've made it through the gauntlet.

It doesn't, though, it gives it a snapshot of what life is like for people who graduated 8-50 years before you.

 

[drizzt3117]

I definitely learned more from shadowing than volunteering if we're talking about what to expect your work to look like as a physician.

I just don't think you get a clear view of what an attending does from a day or few days of shadowing. I think a good volunteer position where you actually accomplish something useful is better.

 

[hmockingbird]

I would also say shadowing. Shadowing to me was fun, but pretty worthless in terms of actually learning something. My dad is a doctor and I have gone to work with him before, so I've seen all the boring stuff (charting, etc.) since I wouldn't be allowed to go back to see the patients without HIPPA clearance. And I have been a patient for most of my life, have been to tons of different specialties, so I could've probably given you an accurate description of what it's like to be a doctor (vs. nurse vs. NP) when I was 12. I'm not trying to come off pretentiously... just honestly, if you are in that environment 24/7, you pick up on it. I loved the doctors I shadowed, but it was just kind-of a waste of time in terms of productivity, personally.

The thing is.... it doesn't. Most docs aren't likely to be all that frank about things with someone who is basically a complete stranger. Chances are that while you've seen certain aspects of medicine while shadowing, you missed most of the "real fun":

• Billing/Insurance
• Dealing with Nursing Administration
• Legal paperwork
• Hellish nurses and patients (most will hopefully be a bit better-behaved when a student is watching.... although certainly not always)
• Charting/Documentation

It seems to me that for most pre-meds, shadowing is generally just the interesting part (e.g., rounding, observing procedures, etc.).

Yeah, this is the newer-to-me stuff I was exposed to through shadowing, but I was shadowing a doctor I did research with and we got to know each other pretty well. She was also the department chair at the time, so she had more business-y responsibilities compared to the other doctors in the department.

I just don't think you get a clear view of what an attending does from a day or few days of shadowing. I think a good volunteer position where you actually accomplish something useful is better.

I think the problem with this is most volunteer programs aren't like that. All the volunteer options I have seen/done (I checked into volunteering at multiple hospitals before deciding on one) are either help with mundane tasks in the wards and hope you see a doctor and get to go into the room with them, or do something unrelated to medicine like work the gift shop/daycare/etc. Shadowing, while I feel it is overrated, at least guarantees physician exposure.

 

[SilentSoldier]

Well, I think that it probably depends on where you see yourself going into as far as a particular field of medicine you want to go into. Not so much as say what specialty but say you have a passion for academic medicine, then maybe something like heavy research experience would be high on your list while hospital volunteering might not be. Similarly, if you have a passion for primary care or dealing with underserved communities, I would say that volunteering at a clinic and/or shadowing a primary care doc in that particular area would be high on your list.

I would still say that some sort of clinical experience can't really be overrated, otherwise, how would any of us know that this is the profession we want to go into?

 

[waterbottle10]

Interview. You have your entire application, gpa mcat, EC, that's built on years of work and I believe is a much better portrayal of who you are than 1 or 2 40 min interviews on the spot. Yet Interviews are probably the most important aspect of the process. There are just too many variables with interviews, (their mood, their bias, how hot you are, your mood, sickness, etc). I've heard medical school students say they prefer writing better comments for girls than guys.