Inadvertent liver resection

Started by toddlasher
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By the way, this is the address of record on the board of health order. Apparently they still name streets “Olde Plantation Place”.

www.realtor.com

4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541 | realtor.com®

View 122 photos for 4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541, a 5 bed, 5.5+ bath, 6,887 Sq. Ft. single family home built in 2002 that was last sold on 07/28/2020.
www.realtor.com www.realtor.com

Might partly explain why IR embo was not offered.

Would also be interesting to see if the autopsy and preop imaging findings of the spleen correlate.
 
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nimbus said:
By the way, this is the address of record on the board of health order. Apparently they still name streets “Olde Plantation Place”.

www.realtor.com

4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541 | realtor.com®

View 122 photos for 4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541, a 5 bed, 5.5+ bath, 6,887 Sq. Ft. single family home built in 2002 that was last sold on 07/28/2020.
www.realtor.com www.realtor.com

Might partly explain why IR embo was not offered.

Would also be interesting to see if the autopsy and preop imaging findings of the spleen correlate.
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That house is wild.
 
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nimbus said:
By the way, this is the address of record on the board of health order. Apparently they still name streets “Olde Plantation Place”.

www.realtor.com

4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541 | realtor.com®

View 122 photos for 4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541, a 5 bed, 5.5+ bath, 6,887 Sq. Ft. single family home built in 2002 that was last sold on 07/28/2020.
www.realtor.com www.realtor.com

Might partly explain why IR embo was not offered.

Would also be interesting to see if the autopsy and preop imaging findings of the spleen correlate.
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Homestead exemption in FL is very generous I beleive. Correct me if I am wrong, but assuming it is his primary residence, I beleive it is safe from creditors/litigation. Probably useful for this guy.
 
rick roller pump said:
Homestead exemption in FL is very generous I beleive. Correct me if I am wrong, but assuming it is his primary residence, I beleive it is safe from creditors/litigation. Probably useful for this guy.
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The court would look at your assets and let the other sides lawyers put a lien against it, essentially making your house much harder to sell and it would go at a much lower price to come corporate entity as most normal buyers can’t get financing for a house with a lien
 
nimbus said:
By the way, this is the address of record on the board of health order. Apparently they still name streets “Olde Plantation Place”.

www.realtor.com

4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541 | realtor.com®

View 122 photos for 4516 Olde Plantation Pl, Destin, FL 32541, a 5 bed, 5.5+ bath, 6,887 Sq. Ft. single family home built in 2002 that was last sold on 07/28/2020.
www.realtor.com www.realtor.com

Might partly explain why IR embo was not offered.

Would also be interesting to see if the autopsy and preop imaging findings of the spleen correlate.
Click to expand...
The vast majority of general surgeons aren't paid that well to begin with. And now income is nil. Will be listed soon enough.
 
ambiturner said:
This house would be a nightmare to own, all those pools/fish tanks/trees/landscaping probably cost hundreds to thousands a month in upkeep. Add to that it’s 20 years old so the roof appliances etc are all going to need replacing, and a hurricane just went over it.

Maybe this guy just makes a lot of bad decisions in general?
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If I had that much space, I would definitely have a ping pong table and some old school arcade games…space invaders, asteroids, etc. Bad decisions indeed.
 
nimbus said:
If I had that much space, I would definitely have a ping pong table and some old school arcade games…space invaders, asteroids, etc. Bad decisions indeed.
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We had Space Invaders (table top) and Cosmic Blasters in our play room when I was a kid with a pool table. We got them all at an orthopaedic surgeon's estate sale. My dad was upset my mom didn't get the pinball machine for him. Were we spoiled? Yeah, but I didn't know it at the time. (We did not have a Nintendo, though.)
 
GassYous said:
I thought of doing this but you'd probably use it less than you think
My friend bought a ping pong table and it just sits there in the house, they used it once.
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The problem with ping pong and air hockey is that you need someone else to play with you. Billiards, pinball, and video games you can play yourself. Ask me how I know…
 
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GassYous said:
I thought of doing this but you'd probably use it less than you think
My friend bought a ping pong table and it just sits there in the house, they used it once.
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I would probably do pinball machine(s) and a build your own arcade cabinet that could load multiple games for variety
 
Hahaha
IMG_8736.jpeg
 
Perfectly dissecting a liver off the diaphragm IS a tough feat. This guy had to transect huge thin walled vessels both above and below the liver to get it out and I would have assumed he had just torn them if he was lost anatomically. Wonder what vessel above the spleen he thought the IVC was. Relatable: another general surgeon walked in the room, saw the back table, said "that's the ****ing liver" and noped right out of there. Clearly she didn't want to be part of the ensuing lawsuit by being named a participant, and it was too late at that point anyways. Maybe I'm crazy, but if my patient is coding on the table, I'm helping to code them, not continuing to work in the abdomen (although I would try to clamp a bleeder if that was the problem) while everyone else tries to save them. Lots of questions remain. And the CMO came into the OR to help with a code? WTF indeed.
 
The guy sounds like a dopey hack that everyone knew was weak, but not weak enough to get canned. Though it also seems like he had a pattern of misadventures that were never reported. Things that he should have reported himself.
Also, why is a splenectomy some major surgery where you need 2 attending surgeons and lots of blood products and it has to be scheduled early in the day? WTF?
If I’ve made one good decision that has made my career easier, even though I’ve worked at a couple of big deal, big name referral centers, I made sure I worked at places that have great surgeons. Maybe not the fastest, but clearly 2 standard deviations above the mean. They are experts at what they do and make major cases look routine. These hacks can’t even do a fracking splenectomy. Omfg.
 
IlDestriero said:
The guy sounds like a dopey hack that everyone knew was weak, but not weak enough to get canned. Though it also seems like he had a pattern of misadventures that were never reported. Things that he should have reported himself.
Also, why is a splenectomy some major surgery where you need 2 attending surgeons and lots of blood products and it has to be scheduled early in the day? WTF?
If I’ve made one good decision that has made my career easier, even though I’ve worked at a couple of big deal, big name referral centers, I made sure I worked at places that have great surgeons. Maybe not the fastest, but clearly 2 standard deviations above the mean. They are experts at what they do and make major cases look routine. These hacks can’t even do a fracking splenectomy. Omfg.
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He was horrible , amazed he wasn’t fired.
 

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They started this elective splenectomy at 5:30pm. Perfect time of the day to do a big elective case. It is odd that they rarely mention the anesthesiologist. Interviewed the CRNA.

Dude previously severed the CBD, severed a ureter, and mistook the adrenal for the pancreas in other cases. But, whatever, he is generating RVUs.
 
Ronin786 said:
Funny thing is they clearly have a robust reporting system, peer review process and remediation and still this guy kept his privileges.

The last time he ****ed up they gave him modules to complete.

What a joke.
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"Please spend 20 hours playing surgery simulator with your child at home. See you next week. Thanks."
 
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Reading this gives me a newfound respect for my own hospital that has fired 2 subspecialty surgeons since i got here 3 years ago despite them being the highest RVU generating docs in the whole institution not to mention god only knows how much downstream revenue.

Makes me wonder where the surgery dept chief was in all of the lead up to this. Where’s the chat over a cup of coffee to talk about things? Maybe they did that and it just didn’t make the report.

I just feel like if I tried to book a case that was way beyond my skills that someone would call one of my senior partners and they would have a chat with me about it. Shoot, I got a lot of similar calls early on when I was doing sub specialty cases that hadn’t been done here before just to check in and make sure everything was ok, offering a hand if needed.
 
operaman said:
Reading this gives me a newfound respect for my own hospital that has fired 2 subspecialty surgeons since i got here 3 years ago despite them being the highest RVU generating docs in the whole institution not to mention god only knows how much downstream revenue.

Makes me wonder where the surgery dept chief was in all of the lead up to this. Where’s the chat over a cup of coffee to talk about things? Maybe they did that and it just didn’t make the report.

I just feel like if I tried to book a case that was way beyond my skills that someone would call one of my senior partners and they would have a chat with me about it. Shoot, I got a lot of similar calls early on when I was doing sub specialty cases that hadn’t been done here before just to check in and make sure everything was ok, offering a hand if needed.
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At a place like that, it wouldn’t surprise me if he actually was the chief of surgery
 
CopaceticOne said:
www.nbcnews.com

Florida doctor indicted and accused of removing patient's liver instead of spleen in fatal surgery

A grand jury indicted Dr. Thomas Shaknovsky on a charge of second-degree manslaughter in the August 2024 death of a 70-year-old Alabama man.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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This is like the Christopher Duntsch situation - incompetence on a level that the criminal courts got involved.

Although this guy sounds like he was a horrible surgeon, I think it’s a very dangerous slippery slope to start charging physicians criminally for what amounts to professional incompetence. At least with Duntsch, there was a better case that he was more or less deliberately f’ing cases up (or at least, that he was so drugged out and mentally messed up that it basically amounted to intentional negligence). This guy just sounds like a grossly incompetent surgeon that should have been stopped earlier by “the system”.

That said, Duntsch was charged with murder while this guy is being charged with manslaughter, so there’s that.
 
dozitgetchahi said:
This is like the Christopher Duntsch situation - incompetence on a level that the criminal courts got involved.

Although this guy sounds like he was a horrible surgeon, I think it’s a very dangerous slippery slope to start charging physicians criminally for what amounts to professional incompetence. At least with Duntsch, there was a better case that he was more or less deliberately f’ing cases up (or at least, that he was so drugged out and mentally messed up that it basically amounted to intentional negligence). This guy just sounds like a grossly incompetent surgeon that should have been stopped earlier by “the system”.

That said, Duntsch was charged with murder while this guy is being charged with manslaughter, so there’s that.
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Well, sometimes its a matter of gross negligence vs simple malpractice.

Drive 100mph in a 25mph school zone... may get manslaughter if you kill someone.

Drive 35mph? Likely just a potential lawsuit .

Not a slippery slope. The prosecutors will need to prove it. Its a difficult task
 
UscGhost said:
Well, sometimes its a matter of gross negligence vs simple malpractice.

Drive 100mph in a 25mph school zone... may get manslaughter if you kill someone.

Drive 35mph? Likely just a potential lawsuit .

Not a slippery slope. The prosecutors will need to prove it. Its a difficult task
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In the vast, vast majority of situations, professional incompetence isn’t murder or manslaughter, and it shouldn’t be dealt with in the criminal courts. I think people are just angry that “the system” - aka the hospitals, the state boards, etc - is doing a poor job of regulating incompetence.

Physicians are already “on the firing line” for all sorts of things in this country. We’re not treated well, and not taken seriously. Just wait until some sort of complication happens in the course of normal care, and you have to worry about not just a lawsuit but the sheriff showing up with handcuffs. (This has already started to happen in the UK, from what I’ve read.)

At the rate things are going, I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re there in 10-20 years.
 
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dozitgetchahi said:
This is like the Christopher Duntsch situation - incompetence on a level that the criminal courts got involved.

Although this guy sounds like he was a horrible surgeon, I think it’s a very dangerous slippery slope to start charging physicians criminally for what amounts to professional incompetence. At least with Duntsch, there was a better case that he was more or less deliberately f’ing cases up (or at least, that he was so drugged out and mentally messed up that it basically amounted to intentional negligence). This guy just sounds like a grossly incompetent surgeon that should have been stopped earlier by “the system”.

That said, Duntsch was charged with murder while this guy is being charged with manslaughter, so there’s that.
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Dunstch wasn't tried on murder. That would be too hard to prove. Instead, he was tried and found guilty for "intentionally or knowingly causing serious bodily injury to an elderly individual while using or exhibiting a deadly weapon." He received a life sentence, so it may effectively be a murder conviction. I think the legal distinction here is important.
 
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