Incident yesterday

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Z-pak,

We'll have to disagree on the utility of "reaming" in medical or pharmaceutical education. I haven't found it a particularly useful tool in any of my supervisory roles to date (including the one I'm in right now on SDN). I think it does nothing but create hostility and perpetuate bad behavior down "generations" of practitioners. But we don't need to agree.

I never said persons with and without experience were equal in the workplace. In fact in the follow up to the post you quoted I said exactly the opposite:

A4MD said:
In the workplace, I agree. Experience wins, especially when patient care is at stake. Statistically you're likely to have a better outcome if you have the benefit of experience working for you.
Click to expand...

I'm a parent and I'm clearly in charge of my child. But there are no parent-child relationships on SDN. This is a community of ideas and all are welcome to contribute ideas so long as they don't attempt to impede others from doing so and are willing to defend the positions they put forth.

No one doubts your intentions nor your contributions to this forum. In fact, nothing of what I said was directed at you or anyone in particular and I regret that you felt singled out.

My two main points: the age/experience card should not be used to outright dismiss the opinions of others (particularly when you don't agree with them) and reaming is inappropriate (we'll leave the workplace or education out of it if you like...on SDN it is a violation of the Terms of Service).


You aren't that much older than I am anyway. 😉
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Z-pak,

We'll have to disagree on the utility of "reaming" in medical or pharmaceutical education. I haven't found it a particularly useful tool in any of my supervisory roles to date (including the one I'm in right now on SDN). I think it does nothing but create hostility and perpetuate bad behavior down "generations" of practitioners. But we don't need to agree.

I never said persons with and without experience were equal in the workplace. In fact in the follow up to the post you quoted I said exactly the opposite:



I'm a parent and I'm clearly in charge of my child. But there are no parent-child relationships on SDN. This is a community of ideas and all are welcome to contribute ideas so long as they don't attempt to impede others from doing so and are willing to defend the positions they put forth.

No one doubts your intentions nor your contributions to this forum. In fact, nothing of what I said was directed at you or anyone in particular and I regret that you felt singled out.

My two main points: the age/experience card should not be used to outright dismiss the opinions of others (particularly when you don't agree with them) and reaming is inappropriate (we'll leave the workplace or education out of it if you like...on SDN it is a violation of the Terms of Service).


You aren't that much older than I am anyway. 😉
Click to expand...


I don't feel singled out at all. And I've reamed out another pharmacist only once in my career. But that was the only way to control disruptive behavior she exhibited in bringing down the morale of the pharmacy. Some poeple don't respond to constructive criticism. It worked. That doesn't mean the OP deserves a reaming... I never said he did. "Reaming" is a tough word. And it doesn't mean you're screaming across the room. Consider it as tough love.

And the point of Parent/Child relationship isn't about Parent/Child relationship on SDN. It's about knowing the situation one understands well enough from years of experience that's being challenged by someone with very little clue. You can only say ...how should we say.. "you'll understand it later" through experience.

I'm not here to garner agreement nor popularity votes. I found this forum 2 and 1/2 years ago when SlaveRph.. a notorious troll pharmacist announced that he was going to some student forum run by a doctor and moderated by a bunch of students to mess around and troll. I followed him in here to get him banned. And he got banned..and I was banned for a bit. For that, I should get a star.

I don't have an opinion about the OP's situation. But some of our opinions here determine the way pharmacy is practiced at health systems throughout the country. That expertise comes from work experience. Not 4 years of pharmacy school.
 
As always, your feedback is appreciated. I'm going to follow Anna's eloquent hint from the Spanish thread and suggest that any further discussions of SDN policies, the credentials of the SDN management team or (optimistically) any ideas you have to make SDN better should go to the Site Support and Suggestions Forum, where they can be reviewed by all the members of the management team.
 
I am having some trouble believing that some people here, people with experience, are defending the actions of an MD that cursed at a tech for asking a simple question related to patient safety. I also can't believe that some people are calling for the tech to get a "chewing out" or a "whipping."


My god. I work in a busy pharmacy. I am a student. I am frustrated at times because pharmacists (understandibly) want you to ask before you do anything, yet when you ask questions, they are pissy and annoyed. I imagine for techs it is that much worse. I witness the techs I work with flying by the seat of their pants, trying to stay out of the pharmacists' way as much as possible.

I'd certainly not criticize a tech who sent a fax with a simple question that could impact patient care... now if it happened twice a week, that would be another story. But the reality is that techs do this kind of thing all the time, and for a pharmacist to defend the MD's behaviour (cursing) as justified... well that pharmacist just lost all credibility with me.
 
It's hard being a tech. When I worked in the hospital, there was this one particular pharmacist. She was something else. When she got mad, she would slam the phone and started cursing. It was scary. I tried as much as possible not to transfer the phone to her. We'd have nurses calling, wanting to speak to a pharmacist. Then that pharmacist would not take the call. I was placed in a tough situation. I can't just say, "the pharmacist refuses to talk to you" and click. We (techs) got yelled at all the time by nurses, but never MDs since most of them were still residents and they're a lot nicer.
 
I worked with an H1B pharmacist who repeatedly told me that pharmacists were not required to counsel in his home country and he would not do it here either. He said, "you are my intern and I delegate this to you." I constantly reminded him (this was during my P0 time - admitted but not enrolled) that I had not attended ONE DAY of pharmacy school and that he was liable for EVERYTHING I said but the man did not care. He was so opposed to talking to patients, in person or on the phone. It was almost phobia-like. I left that company but I heard that he got sick of the United States and went back to work in his home country.
 
BMBiology said:
Here we go again with how much experience you had. I hope one day when I become as seasoned as you, I would not lecture my colleagues and try to justify degrading behavior over a simple, harmless mistake.
Click to expand...

3/4 of her posts have to do with her picking a fight and feigning outrage when somebody disagrees with her. For as much experience she claims to have, her insecurity is a bit shocking.
 
Brixius said:
3/4 of her posts have to do with her picking a fight and feigning outrage when somebody disagrees with her. For as much experience she claims to have, her insecurity is a bit shocking.
Click to expand...

Big deal... 1/4 of her posts are worthwhile...and regardless if you agree with her or not, most everyone still reads her posts and can learn from her.

You should see my posts...I grossly over estimated that about 10% of my posts pertain to Pharmacy. The truth is...maybe 3 % tops.. maybe 2.

Fortunately, not many disagree with me... that's a good thing...cuz it was usually my way or highway... in the pharmacy. Tho, I have a real boss at home.

Totally unrelated to the topic...but some of you may know that I resigned as a DOP in February to take a regional VP role for a hospital pharmacy consulting firm. Unfortunately, the first thing the new DOP who replaced me(tho I'm irreplaceable) did when she got hired was to flex staff. Which means when the hospital census goes down, administration panics and makes everyone go home...hence full timers end up working 32 hours per week... and get paid for 32 hours.

I always butted heads with the administration over that issue. I told them that I can flex staff and make the numbers look good and save $40,000 per year on salaries.... or I can keep all the staff and save the hospital $1,000,000 per year through clinical pharmacy programs. And never ever flexed staff...one of the key things in keeping the morale of the department up.

I feel bad for my ex-staff...they are good people and don't deserve to be treated that way.

So for those of you who will be in a leadership role in the future, do everything you can to take care of your people. It's not about numbers. It's about people and the lives they lead.
 
ZpackSux said:
Big deal... 1/4 of her posts are worthwhile...and regardless if you agree with her or not, most everyone still reads her posts and can learn from her.

You should see my posts...I grossly over estimated that about 10% of my posts pertain to Pharmacy. The truth is...maybe 3 % tops.. maybe 2.

Fortunately, not many disagree with me... that's a good thing...cuz it was usually my way or highway... in the pharmacy. Tho, I have a real boss at home.

Totally unrelated to the topic...but some of you may know that I resigned as a DOP in February to take a regional VP role for a hospital pharmacy consulting firm. Unfortunately, the first thing the new DOP who replaced me(tho I'm irreplaceable) did when she got hired was to flex staff. Which means when the hospital census goes down, administration panics and makes everyone go home...hence full timers end up working 32 hours per week... and get paid for 32 hours.

I always butted heads with the administration over that issue. I told them that I can flex staff and make the numbers look good and save $40,000 per year on salaries.... or I can keep all the staff and save the hospital $1,000,000 per year through clinical pharmacy programs. And never ever flexed staff...one of the key things in keeping the morale of the department up.

I feel bad for my ex-staff...they are good people and don't deserve to be treated that way.

So for those of you who will be in a leadership role in the future, do everything you can to take care of your people. It's not about numbers. It's about people and the lives they lead.
Click to expand...



Wow, totaly agreed. I got questioned as to why I was over in payroll last week by the FS manager (hahaha). I shoud be sending people home. Ok, so I should ask my staff to work hard during the inseason, but then cut their hours in the summer? Cause they dont lives to live and mortgages to pay. It is so frustrating to see my staff work their rear ends off only to have a DM tell the FS manager to go back to the pharmacy and question the hours. whatever, my staff is great and patients love them. It keeps the patients coming back!
 
wow...somebody agrees with me...
 
ZpackSux said:
wow...somebody agrees with me...
Click to expand...

the way I see it, a content staff makes for good business. Please, what a few thousand in payroll savings per year when CEO's make a bonus of $15000000. All these DM's wanna be the next CEO of the Rx supervisors wanna be the next DM. At whose expense? I could go on and on and on. If I hire someone fulltime, to me thats 40hrs. Not 30 hrs or whatever.
 
ZpackSux said:
Totally unrelated to the topic...but some of you may know that I resigned as a DOP in February to take a regional VP role for a hospital pharmacy consulting firm.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I had to..........quitter :meanie:
 
ZpackSux said:
Totally unrelated to the topic...but some of you may know that I resigned as a DOP in February

I feel bad for my ex-staff...they are good people and don't deserve to be treated that way.

So for those of you who will be in a leadership role in the future, do everything you can to take care of your people. It's not about numbers. It's about people and the lives they lead.
Click to expand...

wuss...:laugh:
 
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