income

[opus]

how much does a pharmacist make? I know there are many career choices, but what is the app. income ?

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[LSUMED2006]

You can go to websites like salary.com and find estimates that I find kinda low. It is basically the norm to make 70,000-90,000 right out of school. Even though pharmacy was not what I was put on this earth to do, I could have easily done a wonderful job in retail even if I did not enjoy it (ie the money would have made it worth it for me). I handled the stress very well and did not take work home with me.

Personally, I like pharmacy work, but there are many people who would NOT do pharmacy work for no matter how much money is thrown at them.

Jason

 

[tlh908]

I am expecting to make arround a 100 a year when I graduate in 2 1/2 years. From what I have heard recruiters say that should be easily doable. And if you want to work in a small town who needs a pharmacists a lot of companies are paying big sign on bonuses!

But again, money isn't the only thing. You need to enoy what you do.

 

[LSUMED2006]

I don't know where the market will be in 3 years or so when TLH graduates, but as of today, many people make at least 80-90,000, and I have heard of 100,000/yr jobs.

In addition to the sign on bonuses, many companies will give the pharmacist a car (BMWs seem to be very popular...personally I'm a Lexus man myself )

I personally feel that it is possible to be a good (maybe not great or the best, but good) pharmacist even if all one likes about the job is the pay. THat being said, many people could not be paid any amount of money to do the job. DON'T go into pharmacy ONLY for the money unless you are VERY sure that you can tolerate the job. I feel, however, it is quite important to love the job to be a great pharmacist. In my opinion, great pharmacists are in short supply, and those that truly care and do an amazing job deserve (much) more than they are paid, even with the rising number of 100k/yr jobs. Those pharmacists, who don't care about the patients, the job, or anything else other than money are grossly overpaid IMHO.

Jason

 

[Dr JPH]

Random sampling of a few friends of mine:

$84,000 - Walgreens - 1 year
$91,000 - Rite Aid - 25 years (cushy schedule)
$112,000 - Rite Aid - 5 years (lots of overtime)
$96,000 - Walmart - 4 years (recruiting duties as well)
$78,000 - independant - 2 years

 

[The Pill Counter]

I know LSUMED2006 and JPHazelton and myself who left pharmacy for med school are not popular on this forum, but really pay attention to what has been said. There's a reason I left a $90000 job offer with RiteAid and sold my BMW and bought a bus pass in return. For the ambitious or intellectually curious, your working life in retail pharmacy will be reduced to answering mundane questions about insurance and formularies all day long, putting on a ridiculous head-set, a la McDonalds drive-thru, to give drug information to those picking up their meds from a window and informing customers which aisle the diapers are in.
Hospital pharmacy on the other hand, was much more rewarding, though not as lucrative.
****DO NOT SELECT A CAREER BASED SOLELY ON ITS PAY!****

 

[Dr_Rx2003]

I know LSUMED2006 and JPHazelton and myself who left pharmacy for med school are not popular on this forum

Why did you say that? I respect your opinion.

 

[Booza]

Originally posted by JPHazelton
Random sampling of a few friends of mine:

$84,000 - Walgreens - 1 year
$91,000 - Rite Aid - 25 years (cushy schedule)
$112,000 - Rite Aid - 5 years (lots of overtime)
$96,000 - Walmart - 4 years (recruiting duties as well)
$78,000 - independant - 2 years

How many hours a week do they work?

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by Booza
How many hours a week do they work?

Generally btw 40-50

The guy at Rite Aid for 25 years does 36 one week, 48 the next. One weekend per month.

The guy making 112K works about 60+ hours a week on avg, but he has been known to pull 14 straight days of 12 hour shifts (8 hrs on Sundays).

 

[Kovox]

Originally posted by The Pill Counter
I know LSUMED2006 and JPHazelton and myself who left pharmacy for med school are not popular on this forum, but really pay attention to what has been said. There's a reason I left a $90000 job offer with RiteAid and sold my BMW and bought a bus pass in return. For the ambitious or intellectually curious, your working life in retail pharmacy will be reduced to answering mundane questions about insurance and formularies all day long, putting on a ridiculous head-set, a la McDonalds drive-thru, to give drug information to those picking up their meds from a window and informing customers which aisle the diapers are in.
Hospital pharmacy on the other hand, was much more rewarding, though not as lucrative.
****DO NOT SELECT A CAREER BASED SOLELY ON ITS PAY!****

I echo Dr_Rx2003's opinion. LSUMED2006, JPHazelton, and yourself have provided a lot of insite as to what to expect if someone were to pursue a pharmacy route.

Everything you guys have said has provided me with information I could not obtain from a book. I am doing a lot of soul seaching as to whether to attend med pharm or law school for I had been fortunate enough to be accepted to schools in those areas.

So, I am sending a personal thank you to you guys. Please continue to post your wonderful information.

 

[Sara_J]

Those salaries are so tempting, but they are right...if it's not what you want, don't do it. Especially a field like retail pharmacy. I work in retail as a student, and it has only affirmed my desire to do research...or anything that does not involve insurance, refills, overrides, bagging groceries, etc.

 

[LSUMED2006]

Kovok,

Thanks for the kind words. Congrats on being accepted into the various schools; that is a major accomplishment! For me, medicine is my calling. I didn't really believe in one's "calling" until I was able to watch surgery. For me, there is no other job on this earth that would make me happy except medicine. I feel that unless you have a strong, all consuming, desire to go into medicine, you may wish to carefully evaluate your reasoning to become a doctor.

You obviously are gifted accademically, and from my own personal experience, I can state that medical school is much more demanding than pharmacy school, not just in the material, but medical school requires many sacrefices. We have a lawyer in our class, and he states that med school is harder for him than law school, as there is, in his words, much more memorization. Obviously, however, law school stresses a different kind of thought process than medicine or pharmacy.

Perhaps since law is so very different than pharmacy or medicine, it may be easiest to decide between generic healthcare v. law and then decide from there. Anyway, if there is any other way I can help, pl;ease feel free to let me know. I have already posted many thoughts on pharmacy v. medicine, but if you have any other questions about that area in specific (and I do have plenty of opinions) PM me.

Jason

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by LSUMED2006
For me, medicine is my calling.

I agree 100%.

For me to want to pass up a chance to have a $90,000 a year salary, it sure as heck be what I wsa put here on Earth to do.

In all seriousness, you need to go the route that is best for you.

Pharmacy is an amazing career with a good number of possibilities to develop oneself professionally.

Trust me...I still consider going back to pharmacy every time I need to sit down and study the pages and pages of seemingly useless material they make you learn in medical school.

Oh what I wouldn't give to be back in Pharmacology...dreams of LD50s dancing in my head...

 

[LSUMED2006]

Tryinghard

>about 100K...or those big salaries..how good do you need to be to get big salary, recruited, or get to work in california??

Basically, those who make the 100k+ salaries right now generally are the lucky ones, at least in my experience. The several people I know who recieved such killer offers simply were in the right place at the right time. As of right now, I don't think it is fair to state that these salaries are the norm; however, they may be in the near future. Obviously, having excellent grades will make your chances of landing a great job even better. Those I know certainly were not in cali or shipped off to alaska.

>do you have to be from a big name pharm school, or do you have to be top in class

Pharmacy is so hot right now that it doesn't matter. Basically any new graduate can expect to make 70k, 80k, or even 90k out of school. Perhaps a joke might sum it up well: What do you call the worst pharmd student in the class the day after graduation? The answer is "Dr... " Point being, most all new grads have a great shot at a great paying job.

>btw..does grades matter in pahrm school...are they pass/fail??
does everyone just pass

They matter a ton and are not pass fail. In fact, every year a few people will invariably fail. Pharmacy school is quite tough and requires much dedication; however, the payoff for even the "worst" student in the class can be quite good.

If I can help in any other way, please feel free to let me know.
Jason

 

[Dr JPH]

tryinghard

East coast you can expect to start arounf $75,000-$90,000. You can certainly pull in $100+, but more than likely it will no be for a 40 hour week. That will be with overtime and possibly managerial duties added on.

As far as doctors now, their salaries depend upon their specialty.

National averages are about here:

Pediatrics: $135,000
Family Practice: $140,000
Internal Medicine: $145,000
Emergency Medicine: $165,000
Cardiology: $185,000
General Surgery: $210,000
Cardiothoracic Surgery: $295,000
Psychiatry: $170,000


Of course these are just averages. Income changes based on the area of the country you practice in. The Northeast is generally the lowest paid while the South usually is the highest.

Cost of living and malpractice insurance will also factor into the financial equation.

Don't go to medical school for the money. The sacrafice is too great and the job too consuming to be in it for the ca$h.

Part of me hates to say it, but many people go into pharmacy solely for the money. I was there. Many of my friends are there. If this is your desire, the $$, it doesn't mean you will make a bad pharmacist. Maybe just an unhappy one.

Good luck.

 

[Modnar]

Originally posted by JPHazelton
Part of me hates to say it, but many people go into pharmacy solely for the money. I was there. Many of my friends are there. If this is your desire, the $$, it doesn't mean you will make a bad pharmacist. Maybe just an unhappy one.

I really can't understand why a person would go into pharmacy solely for the money. If all you want is money, get a business degree! You'll be out sooner and the coursework is less demanding.

 

[LSUMED2006]

Tryinghard, I can say that 100k/yr jobs right now as a pharmacist are not a guarantee. I wouldn't go into pharmacy with the mentality that you won't be happy making 80k a year. If you do, then you may be dissappointed.

The doc salaries that jphazelton quoted are kinda (really) low in some areas. For example, one of the most reputable salary surveys places median cardiologist income at a shade under 300K and CT surgeon at 450K. Keep in mind that median incomes are much better to consider than mean incomes. As a physician it is not too difficult for say an interventional cardiologist to make 350k+, a radiologist to make 400k+, anesthesiologist 300k, and on and on.

I am unlike many here and think that pharmacy is a good profession for those who just want to make money. I know that I will take heat for this, but I feel that one can be a good retail pharmacist and enjoy making money (but not necessarily enjoy the job). However, there are those who wouldn't be a pharmacist for any amount of money.

I will say that one should NOT go into medicine for the money. Medicine and pharmacy are two entirely different beasts, and I couldn't even imagine being here if I didn't feel it was my calling.

Jason

 

[Brill]

You also need to keep in mind that salaries have been increasing dramatically lately, and by most estimates should continue to do so in the near future. Most of the pharmacists, recruiters, and pharmacy school personnel that I've talked to have said that 100k+/year salaries should be much more common within the next 4 to 5 years.

 

[Modnar]

Originally posted by LSUMED2006
I am unlike many here and think that pharmacy is a good profession for those who just want to make money. I know that I will take heat for this, but I feel that one can be a good retail pharmacist and enjoy making money (but not necessarily enjoy the job).

Here comes the heat.

IMO, a pharmacy degree is just too much work for a person who is solely motivated by money. It's 6 years of upper-level chemistry and math. A person who doesn't enjoy these subjects is going to be miserable in school and may continue to be miserable later on. There are much, much easier ways to make money than pharmacy school - business school, which I mentioned above, or possibly law school, or accounting or (fill in the blank). Many other degree programs offer their graduates the opportunity to make lots of money in less time and with less demanding coursework.

I wouldn't recommend pharmacy to a person who wants money for the same reason I wouldn't recommend medicine to a person who only wants to help people. There are easier ways to achieve both goals. If you want money, a business degree takes only four years and has easier classes, and if you want to help people, a social work degree also takes four years and is less demanding than a pre-med curriculum.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by Modnar

I wouldn't recommend pharmacy to a person who wants money for the same reason I wouldn't recommend medicine to a person who only wants to help people. There are easier ways to achieve both goals. If you want money, a business degree takes only four years and has easier classes, and if you want to help people, a social work degree also takes four years and is less demanding than a pre-med curriculum.

The major difference with business and pharmacy that no one has brought up yet is that Pharmacy is GUARANTEED return on your college investment. I know plenty of people who got an MBA and they don't make much money at all...many about half as much as a Pharmacist.

Simple fact is...as a Pharmacist you can start at nearly any retail chain just about anywhere in the country and make at least $65,000. You may be hard pressed to find a salary LOWER than that. This holds true in all of the mid-atlantic and northeast states, anyway.

Business is gambling. POTENTIAL to make more money, but nothing is solid.

Someone also said law school...good luck trying to get into law school this year!

Again, I was in the position of PharmD-for-Dollars. It wasn't happening...I would rather have been happy than financially secure. (which I hope to be someday anyway)

And whatever comparison you made to social work vs medicine...I dunno where you were going with that. I suppose you could help people by being a crossing guard.

I was just being honest with people. Don't be naive and think that many, many people aren't in pharmacy school for the money. I know plenty of people in medical school for the money...which, in my mind, is really dumb. Pharmacy school...ok...6 years or so and that's it. Medicine...4 years college + 4 years med school + residency (3-7 years) + malpractice insurance + student loans (~#215,000 for me) = not going to be "Well off" for a few years.

I can't name one Pharmacist I know who has been working for 5-6 years who still has loans from school.

If you're around enough people in the business...go to school with them, live with them, work with them...you see how things work. Fine, I'm not a pharmacist myself, but I've got the inside info.

Best of luck. I need to go study. Pharmacology of all things

 

[Modnar]

The social work comparison was directed at those "i want to help people" pre-meds. Yes, you help people as a doctor... but if you only want to help people and don't care for science, med school really isn't the place for you. Social workers help people too, and their training isn't as intense or time-consuming as med school. My point was that there are good reasons and bad reasons to pursue health care careers, and neither "i want to make money" nor "i want to help people" can really stand on their own.

I know people do go into pharmacy for money, just as people go into many other fields for money. What do you think I am, stupid? However, I don't understand the logic of a person who hates chemistry going into pharmacy. I know that people go into pharmacy for the money. I do not think it's a great idea.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by Modnar
What do you think I am, stupid? However, I don't understand the logic of a person who hates chemistry going into pharmacy.

Yes...that's exactly what I said...that you were stupid.

 

[The Pill Counter]

What's with the obsession of equating pharmacy with chemistry? Sure you take phys. chem and org. chem, but higher years are made up of therapeutics, pharmacology (which isn't chemistry), pathophysiology and a little bit of math (like Drug Analysis), plus many professional courses, and on-site rotations. Even in medicine, medical science is only a component of the degree. Clinical Skills, Population Health etc, are also a big part of the degree. At our university, an undergrad science degree isn't even required, and funny enough. some of the ones without a science background did better than all the B.Sc's, probably because they worked harder, and didn't take anything for granted.
About people going into pharmacy for the money, many people in my class chose it for the lifestyle or a genuine interest. I chose it for the money, and regretted it, but I was in the minority.

 

[Dr JPH]

I agree. Chemistry plays a minor role in pharmacy unless you are doing research & development or possibly industrial chemistry (DuPont, for instance).

Freshman Chem, Organic Chem...that's about it in that genre.

A good portion of it is Physiology, Math, Biochemistry and then of course Pharmacology, Pharmacokinetics, Pharmacotherapeutics which are interegrations of several courses...but Chemistry is way down on the list.

I would say you would enjoy pharmacy school if you like Biochem, Physiology...and a whole lot of memorizing!

 

[tlh908]

I agree that chemistry is not a big part of pharmacy school. I never liked organic chemistry (physical and general chem were fun) and I haven't had any problems in pharmacy school.

It kinda makes you wonder why you had to memorize all those reactions in organic......

 

[LSUMED2006]

I agree with jphazelton. Pharmacy is a guarantee of a well paying job when one graduates. Business does not guarantee such a return. Hence the reason I say it is a good option for those wishing to be guaranteed a good, well paying job upon graduation.

 

[tryinghard]

what's the deal of pharmacy , and work after pharm school only being chemsitry and math.. are we talkign calc 1 stuff, or calc 3 stuff, or linear algebra stuff>

what about the chemistry stuff...are we talking organic chem stuff, or chem stuff, or physical chem stuff.

do you think if its been like 3 or 4 years since last doing college chemistry/ math stuff...that you will be at a severe disadvantage in pharm school, or at work>???

 

[HighSpeed]

Originally posted by Modnar
Here comes the heat.

If you want money, a business degree takes only four years and has easier classes, and if you want to help people, a social work degree also takes four years and is less demanding than a pre-med curriculum.

I don't think a college graduate with a business degree would start off with an 80,000 or 90,000 a year salary that entry level pharmacists do especially in this economy. If you know someone with a bachelors degree in Business Administration who started out at $40,000 a year in this economy then the person is a lucky individual.

Nothing is wrong with going after a profession because of money. If you have great pharmacy skills but went after the career field because of the money you can acquire a liking for it. The class of people that do go after pharmacy because of the money is usually people with an above average intelligence that feel they are making a smart move economically. That is, you would not be surprised finding a good majority of the people in this category having switched from a degree like Electrical Engineering/Computer Engineering to Pharmacy.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by HighSpeed
The class of people that do go after pharmacy because of the money is usually people with an above average intelligence that feel they are making a smart move economically. .

You flatter me.

 

[Brill]

"That is, you would not be surprised finding a good majority of the people in this category having switched from a degree like Electrical Engineering/Computer Engineering to Pharmacy."

My major was Computer Engineering before I switched to pharmacy

 

[tlh908]

Originally posted by LSUMED2006
I agree with jphazelton. Pharmacy is a guarantee of a well paying job when one graduates. Business does not guarantee such a return. Hence the reason I say it is a good option for those wishing to be guaranteed a good, well paying job upon graduation.

Actually it depends on the business school - graduates from Michigan and Wharton can easily find jobs while someone who graduates from some small, little known school will have a tough time finding a job in business that pays well.

With pharmacy school, the school doesn't matter as much since the curriculum in all pharmacy schools is close to the same. The top 200 drugs are the same for those studying in CA as they are for those in PA. And you have to pass a board to practice pharmacy while there are no such creditianals after business school.

Besides, anyone can do business. I used to be a business major and you would get a B just for showing up for class. Obviously not true in the sciences....

 

[tryinghard]

hey...are there any special jobs or fields in which you can utilize both a Pharm D and a M.D. degree. research is one/ along with you practice.

but also, home health care pharmacy..what do you think of this..starting up your own business?? if you have both degrees would it give you a special advantage, a special niche in this market..

 

[phar]

are the websites that confirm these salary figures? You see those physcian salaries posted about....let's take one for an example


$150,000(you get this much only after residency)
-$40,000 malpractice insurance
-40% tax
-5% student loans
-other deductions that i don't know
-60-80hrs/week...some doctors sleep at hospitals(no kidding!)
what is left for pocket money?
FYI...during residency, you work like a slave(upto 100hrs/week) so a shift manager at burger king makes more money than the resident doctor.
FYI...phsycian can make $400k but this comes after countless stress years and too much gray hair.
FYI....pharmacist can make $400k by simply climbing the corporate ladder or getting an additional degree part-time to easily climb the ladder within a few years.

In sum, there is pros and cons of both pharmacy and medicine.
-You have to choose what you want.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by phar
$150,000(you get this much only after residency)

Depends on specialty.

-$40,000 malpractice insurance

Depends on specialty.


-60-80hrs/week...some doctors sleep at hospitals(no kidding!)

Depends on specialty.


FYI...during residency, you work like a slave(upto 100hrs/week) so a shift manager at burger king makes more money than the resident doctor.

2 things...depends on specialty and you aren't aware of the new federal regulations.

FYI...phsycian can make $400k but this comes after countless stress years and too much gray hair.

Depends on specialty.



Your ignorance makes me smile.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by phar

-You have to choose what you want.

Maybe I should give you some credit...this was the only thing in your post that didn't make me laugh.

 

[LSUMED2006]

>60-80hrs/week...some doctors sleep at hospitals(no kidding!)
what is left for pocket money?
FYI...during residency, you work like a slave(upto 100hrs/week) so a shift manager at burger king makes more money than the resident doctor.

First, about the residency thing, new rules have been passed for physicians limiting them to 80 hour work weeks. The 60-80 hour/week thing is only accurate for some specialties. Keep in mind an physicians practice is what he/she makes it.

>FYI...phsycian can make $400k but this comes after countless stress years and too much gray hair.

The time spent is what you make it. There are some specialties out there that enable the MD to make 400k while working less than 50 hours a week. In fact, it is not at all uncommon for radiologists to make 500k working 40 hours a week with 12 WEEKS of vacation a year.

Don't be an MD for the money; it's not worth it. I feel medicine is a calling to be undertaking only by those who want to do it for the right reasons

 

[phar]

JP....i think you are misled by info. The fact is that it is true...you should have watched 60minutes last night if you don't believe me.
I did not state every doctor....i was giving a general idea.....Also, it is true that after all the deductions....Some doctors are only left 60k or so for pocket money.

 

[ussdfiant]

Originally posted by JPHazelton

Your ignorance makes me smile.

 

[phar]

M? JPHazelton,
Firstly, i suggest that you retake composition 101 again as your reading skills is below average.
You thought i was ignorant during my earlier discussion of salary figures. Unfortunately, your reading skills prevented you from catching the words, " let's take one for an example" or "upto". Also, it is common sense knowledge to differentiate MD specialities and earning potential. I was giving AN(means One example) example. So, where does ignorance fall into and the smile? I bet you still don't understand what i just wrote. Ussdfiant just followed your footsteps. Get it?
And, yes many doctors earn about $60k after all the deductions while some make $500k as stated by LSUMED2006 who did understand my post.

What is ignorance?
-You can be an ingnorant person when you disregard some information and overtly react on irrelevant information or partial information.
-So, you are ignorant on my part but it doesn't make me smile as it is childish manners.
-By the way, are you in high school? If you are in high school, i take back all the above information.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Since this is a money thread, I thought that I would at least mention that once one graduates pharm school and passes NAPLEX there is still one more battle to be won. I know that this is true in Retail, but I don't really know about hospital, industry, ect. NEGOTIATE BIGTIME! The chain stores will obviously try to hire for the least cost to them. I have spoken to 2 pharmacy grads from the same school, graduating the same year, working for the same company that made $5 per hour different (over 10%!) just becuase one chose the first number that was thrown their way and the other negotiated. In today's job market the pharmacist has a big power to negotiate, it's a job-hunter's market, as we all know. Don't take the first 80k offer that is thrown your way. There are at least 1000 others. Also look into benefits, vacation, etc. It seems like the logical thing to do, but many people are so excited to finally have some money that they forget. It's also a good time to mention that I would NOT sign any long contracts for a big sign-on bonus. In 5-years, who knows what the profession will be paying? Why be stuck in a long contract for much less money? Also, always go look at the site where you will be practicing for a few days. This is especially true for chains who hire new grads for thier "hell stores". Ideally I would work there even as a volunteer if need be for a week or so before I signed on the dotted line. And of course, as most of you know, drive-throughs are usually a no-no.

Just my thoughts,
Jd

 

[Triangulation]

I found this from a packet I received at a pre-pharm seminar:

Benefit Median Amt %Tot

Base Salary $78,809 74

Bonuses $309 0%

Soc Sec $6,053 6

401K/403B $2,864 3

Disability $1,930 2%

Healthcare $5,390 5%

Pension $2,563 2%

Time Off $8,642 8%

Total $106,560 100%

 

[Triangulation]

I received this info from a UCSF pre-pharm seminar at SF State University presented by a faculty member for the School of Pharm

 

[OwlMyste]

doesn't anybody ever do Pharmacy for the lifestyle anymore? If I ever went into pharmacy...which sometimes I do consider doing, I would be just as happy doing retail pharmacy in a small country town in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Life is made for Living, not for Working! (although with professions like medicine and more stressful types of pharmacy<critical care pharmacist, etc.>, the quote 'life is made for living, not for working' is virtually nonexistant...but to each their own!)
What I mean for the quote otherwise is not that you shouldn't work at all. But that you should work as much as that would make you happy....be it 36 hrs per week in nursing, or 40 hrs per week for other professions, to more than 100 hrs per week for medicine....like I say...to each their own.........