Industry positions for clinical specialist

Started by 123abcdef
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123abcdef

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Hi, I am wondering what kind of positions (in addition to MSL) would be a good fit for an oncology specialist (pgy2 trained, 5-10 years work experience in large academic setting). I do about 50% clinical 50% investigational drugs / special projects. I've read several threads about how to get into this area of pharmacy through fellowships but I am not looking to start over. I'm somewhat interested in clinical trials development (investigational protocol writing, overseeing trials at clinical sites etc), if there is a role for pharmDs in this area. And to those who are MSLs, what does the career ladder look like, and what traits do you think make for a successful career/ candidate? Thanks for your input in advance!
 
You could work for an app or database (Micromedex, Epocrates, etc...) editing clinical content and providing drug information to physicians. I interviewed for Epocrates once and seemed like a pretty sweet job, though I'm sure it might get a bit boring after a while. Not sure about trial development.
 
A lot of the answer for MSL's is gender and age based (it's the way it is) and where you live. For women, there are implicit age limits (women are rarely employed beyond 40-45 in that sort of position and grey discrimination lawsuits apparently don't work here) and occasionally explicit appearance standards even though MSL is technically not a sales job (yeah, right). For men, there are definite and explicit appearance standards and other corporate matters.

Almost all the initial jobs are on the coasts or in university cities (you have to corrupt the young early), and you will need to relocate per your employer every so often or find yourself laid off in the inevitable M&A and downsizing initiatives of PhRMA and BIO. Stable employment is definitely not a given, failing to meet sales targets (yes, they exist for MSL's as well) or being unlucky with the drug assignments make the career a risky one, but much more financially rewarding than plain pharmacy. Most MSL's I know make between the $150k (BMS and Lilly)-300k (Amgen area marketing director and RN not PharmD) range with adjustment bonuses where my city employs $120k/year pharmacists. That said, I'm on version 3.0 with most of the major companies here in town (9.0 in one company's case as they really try to find compatible MSL's tailored to certain physicians) and there are maybe two women who paid calls stayed in the business for more than a decade (and it shows). It's a growth industry for men though, as finding compatible MSL's for the increasing number of women physicians' diverse tastes is proving to be complicated.

For clinical trials, if you are already in an academic setting, just request a reassignment to the CTU in that hospital (being oncology, I'm deeply surprised you haven't already been assigned due to the perpetual investigational protocols ongoing) and I'm sure they'd train you for it. It usually requires an MPH background though for any serious work and the pay is less unless you also deal with research pharmacy administration (as in deal with the IND's) as well. PharmD's can be PI's but if you look at other posts on this board, the union card is PhD or professional degree/MPH or MS (even straight MD's no longer get a free pass at being a PI short of very limited clinical protocols).

I can give more tailored advice, but would need to know your circumstances a bit better.
 
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Thanks for the replies. lord999's comment about msl demographics is one of the reasons I am considering making this move earlier than later (female in early 30s). About what percent of time would you say is devoted to paperwork, meetings, MD contact ? And do you find a decent work life balance (I have young kids)? About being 100% ids, my job has tried to reassign me to a purely research position but I was only willing to do max 50% because I wasn't sure if this would impact my overall trajectory since many of the companies that have tried to recruit me and my colleagues have said they want someone who is actively practicing in the field. Do you think that being 50 versus 100% in research would really make a difference?

Job stability would also be a concern for me as well, but it seems like the drug reps in my area are promoting other onc drugs within the same company and have been there for 5-10 years ...would you say this is translatable to stability for MSLs too?

Lastly, is initial salary dependent on experience and current pay or because I have zero industry experience would I have to start from scratch? What do you think would be starting based on my qualifications and a base of 150-175k/year?
 
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Thanks for the replies. lord999's comment about msl demographics is one of the reasons I am considering making this move earlier than later (female in early 30s). About what percent of time would you say is devoted to paperwork, meetings, MD contact ? And do you find a decent work life balance (I have young kids)? About being 100% ids, my job has tried to reassign me to a purely research position but I was only willing to do max 50% because I wasn't sure if this would impact my overall trajectory since many of the companies that have tried to recruit me and my colleagues have said they want someone who is actively practicing in the field. Do you think that being 50 versus 100% in research would really make a difference?

Job stability would also be a concern for me as well, but it seems like the drug reps in my area are promoting other onc drugs within the same company and have been there for 5-10 years ...would you say this is translatable to stability for MSLs too?

Lastly, is initial salary dependent on experience and current pay or because I have zero industry experience would I have to start from scratch? What do you think would be starting based on my qualifications and a base of 150-175k/year?

The lifestyle in Up In The Air is what I'd probably tell someone in the modern day what their lifestyle is like unless there specifically NYC or Chicago (not even LA gets to be only within city for most territories). You can have a family, you can choose not to, and you can choose to do both if you are right kind of person. Those matters in terms of where time is spent depend on the company (in fact, they really depend on what your strategy and supervisor strategy is for the drug and territory), so there is not a general work environment out there. More so that you will log those hours on the road, you will have to keep yourself energetic (some say perky, but that's sexist) and optimistic to make your calls and presentations, and that you will need to compromise and stick to the message.

Do you think that being 50 versus 100% in research would really make a difference?

Oh yes, but it targets you for different sorts of MSL work depending on whether where you come from (or not if you are Pfizer or GSK who want a specific kind of MSL).

Job stability would also be a concern for me as well, but it seems like the drug reps in my area are promoting other onc drugs within the same company and have been there for 5-10 years ...would you say this is translatable to stability for MSLs too?

What kind of podunk university area do you live in 🙂? It's not exactly Glengarry Glen Ross, but there's certainly much, much larger turnover than that. Are you sure you're not seeing the survivor bias of those who did make it and not the ones that stopped (due to my position, I have a registry of every single MSL and rep for a couple of VA VISNs (kind of like market areas) that is assiduously maintained and I can tell you that the average career credential life expectancy in a longitudinal sense is less than 5 years and become Gompertz bad real quickly). That's confirmed by my own associations, and we sometimes look in those entries and them remember, 'oh yeah, I remember that one! Before and after he/she was (comment censored)" to remind ourselves who work for whom in the industry. If you are getting complacent in your job, either you or your company is screwing up hard in this business.

Lastly, is initial salary dependent on experience and current pay or because I have zero industry experience would I have to start from scratch? What do you think would be starting based on my qualifications and a base of 150-175k/year?

I will say this now to you now, if you do not adopt the attitude that no one gets what they deserve, they get what they can negotiate, this is not a career field I would suggest to a student much less a practicing pharmacist. If you are worth $150-$175k, you better talk yourself and perform the "Coffee is for Closers" walk that your company doesn't see you on this Christmas's pink slip. That question being asked, you might want to go into a personal sales/personal brand seminar at the local U to get an idea that Brand You is the only commodity you have to trade with in the industry and know what you are actually selling.

(And if you do the salary and experience research, no, you do have experience, just on the other side rather than sales. You are selling your knowledge of how your place works and how trials are conducted for efficacy and that I (you) know and believe in the religion of this drug.)

(By the way, you might want to ask around the older pharmacists what happens to old drug reps kids. I know what happens, and I think you do too. Is what you want right now worth that future possibility? To what extent are you willing to fight against that possibility?)