Inmate Says He's Too Fat for Execution

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
OB1🤙

OB1🤙

Breaking Good
Verified Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
2,200
Reaction score
1,247
Members do not see this ad.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805...nalty_cooey;_ylt=AuNRIUGlRSqzl3fn_ofSfix34T0D

My first thought reading this was "Psssht, I'd have access in this guy in no time, and see him off to the gallows." (I have zero sympathy for rapist/murderers, let it be known).

But then, since the personnel doing these procedures are essentially techs (I guess some states have nurses), I guess this could pose a more significant problem than I first thought. And while I would certainly have a medical opinion about this silliness of guy's argument, the whole "Primum non nocere" thing kinda gets in the way of expressing that opinion.

Thoughts on this?

Thoughts on whether anesthesiology as a specialty should have any role in concocting a more humane method of anesthetizing inmates for lethal injection, or should we continue to leave the thiopental/panc/potassium protocol in place as is and not touch it with a barge pole?

Also an amusing find during a cursory google search- BIS monitoring for executions! http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/18/us/18lethal.html?_r=1
 
Last edited:
i guarantee i could find

1) central venous access
2) intraosseous
3) intrathecal


say goodnight, fatty.
 
Hawaiian Bruin said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805...nalty_cooey;_ylt=AuNRIUGlRSqzl3fn_ofSfix34T0D

My first thought reading this was "Psssht, I'd have access in this guy in no time, and see him off to the gallows." (I have zero sympathy for rapist/murderers, let it be known).

But then, since the personnel doing these procedures are essentially techs (I guess some states have nurses), I guess this could pose a more significant problem than I first thought. And while I would certainly have a medical opinion about this silliness of guy's argument, the whole "Primum non nocere" thing kinda gets in the way of expressing that opinion.

Thoughts on this?


Thoughts on whether anesthesiology as a specialty should have any roll in concocting a more humane method of anesthetizing inmates for lethal injection, or should we continue to leave the thiopental/panc/potassium protocol in place as is and not touch it with a barge pole?

Also an amusing find during a cursory google search- BIS monitoring for executions! http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/18/us/18lethal.html?_r=1
Click to expand...

chances are any nurse could find an IV well before any CA-1 or CA-2 given the experience.
so....
i don't think it's fair to lay it on like that...
 
dfk said:
chances are any nurse could find an IV well before any CA-1 or CA-2 given the experience.
so....
i don't think it's fair to lay it on like that...
Click to expand...

LOL. You're so cute when you're clueless.

Anyway, my views on this definitely go against the grain. I agree that within the current framework, there is no place for physician intervention in the implementation of execution.

But to my mind, these people WILL be killed. We have no control over that. And since 1) the process is not perfect, 2) this current imperfect process causes harm, and 3) we are experts in how to reduce that harm, the Utilitarian in me is uneasy watching people suffer using the current outdated protocol.

But yeah, as it stands now, I guess the proper, Hippocrates-approved thing to do is to whistle and turn a blind eye away, and let the murdering rapist bastards squirm when the K+ hits them.
 
dfk said:
chances are any nurse could find an IV well before any CA-1 or CA-2 given the experience.
so....
i don't think it's fair to lay it on like that...
Click to expand...

I'll take that bet. You randomly pick 10 nurses from throughout the hospital and I will randomly choose 10 CA-1 or 2 residents from any anesthesiology program in the country. We can check success rates. Too bad we can't carry out this wager.
Every hospital has a few nurses who are awesome at IVs and a whole bunch who suck at them(because they don't do very many).
 
Atul Gawande has an interesting chapter in "Better" where he interviews a few dr's who are present at executions. It seems by and large, the physicians present refuse to offer technical, medical or practical advice on how to carry out the process, and are simply there to verify that death has occurred. This seems to be the same story for nurses too. The guys starting the IV's, drawing up the drugs, etc usually have no experience doing so. Sure things would go quicker if a nurse or a physician would help out, but finding one willing to actually start the line, etc is pretty difficult (the one's who did so in the book quit after they took an active role).
 
bubalus said:
How much do you supposed I could make doing it?
Click to expand...

Probably just enough to pay the retainer when the BOM challenges your license. 😉
 
Why can't we just shoot people? Nobody is too fat for that.
 
You guys are missing the bigger picture.

How are you 267 pounds after 20 something years in prison?
 
Oh, and one story. Some 40+ years ago, a dude in Kansas - rail thin - was convicted of killing his parents and sister, and sentenced to death. He ate like a pig, demanding 2nds and 3rds at every meal. His plan was to be too fat for the electric chair. However, when it came his turn to "ride the lightning", as was said, "he fit the chair as if it was made for him".
 
Gern Blansten said:
I'll take that bet. You randomly pick 10 nurses from throughout the hospital and I will randomly choose 10 CA-1 or 2 residents from any anesthesiology program in the country. We can check success rates. Too bad we can't carry out this wager.
Every hospital has a few nurses who are awesome at IVs and a whole bunch who suck at them(because they don't do very many).
Click to expand...

yea,
you're right.
i guess i wasn't a little more precise.
i've met some who couldn't hit a garden hose
with a 22g.
never mind my statement.
it's all relative!
 
kraphtymac said:
Why can't we just shoot people? Nobody is too fat for that.
Click to expand...

Agree. Have a few extra rounds for his souless lawyers. Or how about hanging? His fatness would actually help that.
 
he really isn't that fat, bmi 41, barely into morbid obesity right?
i am sure most of you have put bigger than that to sleep....and even woke them up too.

and: "All of the experts agree if the first drug doesn't work, the execution is going to be excruciating," Cooey's public defender, Kelly Culshaw Schneider, said Monday."

this is so stupid. which experts are they talking about? never mind the barb is dosed for weight anyways...but is there any reason to think that even if it didn't work (which it would dosed for weight) would it be painful? i mean aside from the burning in the IV from the K?
 
Last edited:
Bertelman said:
If you were 367 pounds before prison?

These people do get food in prison.
Click to expand...


The question is what kind? BAsic nutritional needs, a multivitamin every so often. That should be it. After 20 years, obesity shouldn't be an issue.
 
The argument that the pentothal would not work because of his weight is invalid. A typical dose has been described as 5 grams. Probably 10 times his required dose. I doubt a little topamax is going to have much effect on that. Besides that, just hold his topamax for the 2 weeks leading up and tell his attorney thanks for the heads up.

The usual dose for pancuronium is 100 mg.
 
A-non-y-mous said:
The question is what kind? BAsic nutritional needs, a multivitamin every so often. That should be it. After 20 years, obesity shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...

If people can smoke cigarettes in prison, I'm sure he can get ding-dongs.

It's not like they are serving salads and veggie burgers in there. They've likely got the same crappy food pushed at a hospital cafeteria. Mac and cheese. Hamburgers. Hot Dogs.

Hell, he probably intimidates some weasel into giving him two servings.
 
medicine can be given in a variety of ways:

- po
- pr
- sc
- im

I'm sure a combination of the above methods will get him dead.
 
I'll do it.

Cash only.

_ultimate_machine_gun_flashlight_fork_knife.jpg
 
kraphtymac said:
Why can't we just shoot people? Nobody is too fat for that.
Click to expand...

What about the poor girl that this monster killed. Did what happened to her represent cruel and unusual treatment. Give the guy roc im and a large dose of midaz. Given his size his FRC is low he will desat quickly and eventually go into cardiac arrest. He doesn't need access for my plan. Hypoxia will stop his heart and you don't have to give him kcl. We would not want to burn his veins.

Cambie
 
Just give him a whopping dose of IM ketamine and then he won't have a care in the world as the tech hunts for an IV.

Heck, give him some po benzos and then the IM ketamine and he really won't care what's going on.
 
Hawaiian Bruin said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805...nalty_cooey;_ylt=AuNRIUGlRSqzl3fn_ofSfix34T0D

My first thought reading this was "Psssht, I'd have access in this guy in no time, and see him off to the gallows." (I have zero sympathy for rapist/murderers, let it be known).

But then, since the personnel doing these procedures are essentially techs (I guess some states have nurses), I guess this could pose a more significant problem than I first thought. And while I would certainly have a medical opinion about this silliness of guy's argument, the whole "Primum non nocere" thing kinda gets in the way of expressing that opinion.

Thoughts on this?

Thoughts on whether anesthesiology as a specialty should have any role in concocting a more humane method of anesthetizing inmates for lethal injection, or should we continue to leave the thiopental/panc/potassium protocol in place as is and not touch it with a barge pole?

Also an amusing find during a cursory google search- BIS monitoring for executions! http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/18/us/18lethal.html?_r=1
Click to expand...

I do not think we should have any role in this whatsoever and should distance ourself from it as much as possible.

Of course as a raging liberal I think we should do away with the death penalty. These are facts from the innocenceproject.org website (pretty interesting site):

There have been 218 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States.

• The first DNA exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 32 states; since 2000, there have been 154 exonerations.

• 16 of the 218 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row
 
Hawaiian Bruin said:
Thoughts on whether anesthesiology as a specialty should have any role in concocting a more humane method of anesthetizing inmates for lethal injection, or should we continue to leave the thiopental/panc/potassium protocol in place as is and not touch it with a barge pole?
Click to expand...

Assuming the IV works fine - I can't imagine an execution much more ethical. Instant coma while your heart is stopped? For me, that beats shooting, electric chair, etc.

Perhaps you could do a high-dose prop/fent infusion or somesuch, and just let apnea/anoxia do it's work, and go without the K+, which is the only potentially painful part.

Or like 10% iso? That'd do it, right?
 
I often wondered about this issue. Why do they need IV access? Why can't you just give a massive dose of something IM...like 10g of morphine or ketamine???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
another dental anesthesia death, how young is too young for these outpatient procedures?
Replies
6
Views
2K
Teillard
T
Planktonmd
Are anesthesia residents too stressed out these days?
2 3
Replies
147
Views
8K
arkgal
A
M
Too good to be true?
Replies
47
Views
4K
deleted87051
D
2
Pope says he is still under the effects of anesthesia
Replies
17
Views
2K
Luv2N2B8
L
D
How early is too early?
2
Replies
81
Views
7K
sevo00
S
Top