Input on Pitt vs Madison

[Kass3562]

Hey guys!

I was wondering if anyone had any personal input on the programs at either Madison or Pitt, or if anyone has made the decision to attend either? I have been accepted to both and I am having a hard time deciding which. I am originally from MN, so Madison is fairly close (plus I can receive in-state tuition around $86,000 total). However, I absolutely loved the faculty and the area around U Pitt when I visited (but it is around $140,000 total). I also have an interview scheduled with Chapel Hill this coming Friday, and I also interviewed with the U of MN last week, but I have already made the decision that I do not wish to attend the U of MN. If anyone has any personal input, I would love to hear it!

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lord999]

I'm not going to repeat what everyone else says and what I agree with in terms that at the undergraduate level, the cheaper and faster school is in your favor. From the academic side, you're fine in either school. Wisc is very similar to UMN, except with a better town-and-gown relationship (and far less corporate). With Pitt, you will also need to deal with UPMC though it is a drinking town with a football problem. Given the choices, either are fine, but for a more corporate experience, pick Pitt, and for the more pastoral academic experience, pick Wisc.

My own proclivities tend toward Wisc, but also, you should know that the majority of the last several classes at Wisc ended up in Chicago and Minneapolis anyway. Tuition reciprocity is a hard topic between the Wisconsin Inc. and the People's Republic of Minnesota governments, it could go out of state (and did for a year due to a breakdown on negotiations).

 

[Rouelle]

I spent some time at Pitt (not pharmacy related). They have some outstanding academic programs. At the time, it was described to me as a “semi-public” university...more expensive than a true state university but not ridiculously price. Not sure how it fares now. I would gladly live in Pittsburgh again if the opportunity arises.

Madison has a great reputation too. I’ve never had any first hand dealings with it, however.

My opinion: you cannot go wrong with either.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Go with the cheapest one.

 

[wucool33]

I'm not going to repeat what everyone else says and what I agree with in terms that at the undergraduate level, the cheaper and faster school is in your favor.

I’m just curious, why do you insist on referring to pharmacy school as “undergrad level”? This is not the first time I’ve seen you do this and it’s kinda weird. Is it supposed to be an insult in relation to the current state of pharmacy?

 

[lord999]

I’m just curious, why do you insist on referring to pharmacy school as “undergrad level”? This is not the first time I’ve seen you do this and it’s kinda weird. Is it supposed to be an insult in relation to the current state of pharmacy?

No particular animus as I was one too, but just the difference between the outcomes and the possibility of a higher education within the field itself. So, it is possible to get an MS Pharmacy which you needed the BS Pharm or the PharmD for. I refer to law the same way as an undergraduate as the LLM and SJD are possibilities post LLB/JD (and is treated that way in practice by the law faculty as until very recently, there were fields restricted to LLM-equivalent graduates). I actually refer to optometry of all things as professional, since it is actually a terminal practice degree (there are no higher post-OD degrees) and has no further hierarchy. This is not meant as an insult, but only to point out that it is the first and not necessarily the last direct subject degree in the field (and the BSPS is not widely accepted at this point as it is a terminal BS). The idea of professional degrees only looks that way to those looking in, but to those involved in the training, it looks different when everyone has one. Power games, power games...

So, I do consider myself to have undergraduate training as a PharmD, but not graduate practice training at the MS level as I went the research route. I respect those who do have that training by my general reference to the undergraduate division as the graduate divisions (Wisconsin actually having the best or second best reputation in the country for their MS). I give very different advice on the graduate practice divisions as it only helps in very specified cases (hospital management, RPD).

 

[wucool33]

No particular animus as I was one too, but just the difference between the outcomes and the possibility of a higher education within the field itself. So, it is possible to get an MS Pharmacy which you needed the BS Pharm or the PharmD for. I refer to law the same way as an undergraduate as the LLM and SJD are possibilities post LLB/JD (and is treated that way in practice by the law faculty as until very recently, there were fields restricted to LLM-equivalent graduates). I actually refer to optometry of all things as professional, since it is actually a terminal practice degree (there are no higher post-OD degrees) and has no further hierarchy. This is not meant as an insult, but only to point out that it is the first and not necessarily the last direct subject degree in the field (and the BSPS is not widely accepted at this point as it is a terminal BS). The idea of professional degrees only looks that way to those looking in, but to those involved in the training, it looks different when everyone has one. Power games, power games...

So, I do consider myself to have undergraduate training as a PharmD, but not graduate practice training at the MS level as I went the research route. I respect those who do have that training by my general reference to the undergraduate division as the graduate divisions (Wisconsin actually having the best or second best reputation in the country for their MS). I give very different advice on the graduate practice divisions as it only helps in very specified cases (hospital management, RPD).

But a MS and/or a PhD in pharmacy are completely different. You also don’t need a PharmD to attend those programs. I don’t see how those are related at all. If there really is another program that is an extension to the PharmD, I’d love to know.

 

[lord999]

But a MS and/or a PhD in pharmacy are completely different. You also don’t need a PharmD to attend those programs. I don’t see how those are related at all. If there really is another program that is an extension to the PharmD, I’d love to know.

(Exasperated sigh)
Master of Science in Pharmacy Practice < The University of Kansas

The famous one at Wisc (there are quite a number of past graduates who are institutional pharmacy directors or faculty chairs from this program prior to it being a dual residency, and I have no doubt that their current residents/graduate students will end up doing well if administrative positions are their career track):
Pharmacy Administrative Residency: Applying to the Program

There are actually MS and PhD degrees in pharmacy related sciences and sociology that do not require a practice degree prior, but there are actually degrees that do require the undergraduate BS or PharmD to even be considered. There are arguments that these postgraduate programs are no longer necessary in light of widespread residency training, but they still exist, and their pedigree is distinguished.

And there are hybrid. Rutgers and Rhode Island used to make pharmacy an absolute requirement for their Regulatory Sciences and Cosmetics MS and PhD, but have extended it to all health professions for the restricted majors (but you have to be able to purchase List I Chemicals as a part of the license), but have a Mickey major version for the ones that do not have the health professions background.

So again, not knocking on PharmD training, but I use it as a reminder to others that it is not a terminal end either. Too many pharmacists don't think hard enough about matching their career interests. It's a shame that people are not introspective enough to understand what they are about.

 

[wucool33]

(Exasperated sigh)
Master of Science in Pharmacy Practice < The University of Kansas

The famous one at Wisc (there are quite a number of past graduates who are institutional pharmacy directors or faculty chairs from this program prior to it being a dual residency, and I have no doubt that their current residents/graduate students will end up doing well if administrative positions are their career track):
Pharmacy Administrative Residency: Applying to the Program

There are actually MS and PhD degrees in pharmacy related sciences and sociology that do not require a practice degree prior, but there are actually degrees that do require the undergraduate BS or PharmD to even be considered. There are arguments that these postgraduate programs are no longer necessary in light of widespread residency training, but they still exist, and their pedigree is distinguished.

And there are hybrid. Rutgers and Rhode Island used to make pharmacy an absolute requirement for their Regulatory Sciences and Cosmetics MS and PhD, but have extended it to all health professions for the restricted majors (but you have to be able to purchase List I Chemicals as a part of the license), but have a Mickey major version for the ones that do not have the health professions background.

So again, not knocking on PharmD training, but I use it as a reminder to others that it is not a terminal end either. Too many pharmacists don't think hard enough about matching their career interests. It's a shame that people are not introspective enough to understand what they are about.

holy... I honestly didn't even know something like this existed...

 

[Hulkbuster333]

I would go with the cheaper one because in the end it doesn't really matter where you got your degree. However, I will say that Pitt has a very good pharmacy school and the hospitals around there are good too. They do focus heavily on residencies. I did not go there for pharmacy school though.

 

[Rouelle]

Wiz Khalifa is from Pittsburgh, so there’s that

 

[Modest_anteater]

Hey guys!

I was wondering if anyone had any personal input on the programs at either Madison or Pitt, or if anyone has made the decision to attend either? I have been accepted to both and I am having a hard time deciding which. I am originally from MN, so Madison is fairly close (plus I can receive in-state tuition around $86,000 total). However, I absolutely loved the faculty and the area around U Pitt when I visited (but it is around $140,000 total). I also have an interview scheduled with Chapel Hill this coming Friday, and I also interviewed with the U of MN last week, but I have already made the decision that I do not wish to attend the U of MN. If anyone has any personal input, I would love to hear it!

Thanks!

Pitt's pharmacy rank is much higher. It is the 9th best pharmacy school in the nation. https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-health-schools/pharmacy-rankings

 

[PharmDminus]

Pitt's pharmacy rank is much higher. It is the 9th best pharmacy school in the nation. https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-health-schools/pharmacy-rankings

much higher??? looks to me they are tied for the 9 spot

 

[PharmDminus]

much higher??? looks to me they are tied for the 9 spot

2017 NAPLEX pass rates higher at Madison, too

 

[Lnsean]

no one's gonna care u went to Pitt for pharmacy...go with the cheaper one.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Hey guys!

I was wondering if anyone had any personal input on the programs at either Madison or Pitt, or if anyone has made the decision to attend either? I have been accepted to both and I am having a hard time deciding which. I am originally from MN, so Madison is fairly close (plus I can receive in-state tuition around $86,000 total). However, I absolutely loved the faculty and the area around U Pitt when I visited (but it is around $140,000 total). I also have an interview scheduled with Chapel Hill this coming Friday, and I also interviewed with the U of MN last week, but I have already made the decision that I do not wish to attend the U of MN. If anyone has any personal input, I would love to hear it!

Thanks!

I would consider weigh cost the heaviest and would also make sure that the teaching methods compliments my learning style. I would have jumped off a bridge in a 100% flipped class room format. At such schools, students are kept on campus for a good 8 hours 5 days a week. When are you supposed to review, prepare, and take care of yourself?
I would find out whether lectures are recorded and make sure that attendance is not required if you are more of an independent learner. Check on academic performance requirements. What happens if you get a D in a course? an F? Will the school set you up with a tutor right away if at any point you need direction in how to tackle a subject.
My two cents. If you can survive any conditions, then cost is your #1.