Insight into an Adcom

[Captain Fantastic]

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My wife is on the adcom for an early acceptance program -- where high schoolers apply for a guaranteed spot in medical school. The adcom also reviews each of the "scholar's" undergrad grades to verify continued eligibility. Wednesday night they had one of these transcript reviews. While my wife is not on the adcom for regular applicants, many of the other docs are.

I was surprised to hear that scholars who recieved a B in a prerequisit course were placed on probation. The other members on the adcom stated that there is a direct correlation to how well a student does in the pre-reqs as to how well they will manage the medical school curriculum. They said very often those who pull Bs in their sciences often need remediation in medical school and have to repeat blocks. One member went on to say that it was appropriate to place the scholars on probabtion for Bs since if they were to apply normally they wouldn't have much of a chance at acceptance with those grades.

Anyway, just an insight into one particular adcom -- I thought it was interesting.

 

[USArmyDoc]

One or two B's isn't going to stop you from getting into medical school. Ask the kids on here. With that being said, if you are pulling straight B's for a BPCM of 3.0 then thats a different story.

 

[prettymd05]

I agree with ArmyDoc. I am not saying that I am one of the "gunner" applicants but I have B's on my transcript and still managed to pull 11 interviews and one acceptance--so far. I guess it is waaaayyyyy different for a BA/MD program. I can attest to anyone reading this that getting some B's is NOT going to prevent you from getting into medical school. You can take that to the bank and stamp my notary on that.

 

[moto_za]

prettymd05:
did u have any c's by any chance?

 

[prettymd05]

prettymd05:
did u have any c's by any chance?

Moto,

I actually had a total of 3 C's....2 in my first semester of freshman year (transition period rough and I went to an ivy) and one during junior year ( was taking 6 academic classes and an elective, of which 5 were science courses/labs). So, yes, I am farrrrrrrrr from perfect but I did have a fly a** personal statement, filled in all 15 ec's on the amcas, and interview very, very well!!! Hope that helps!

-Pretty

 

[GujjuNo1]

prettymd05:
did u have any c's by any chance?

I have one C (freshman year). And I did get a few interviews, so I am thinking the C is not hurting that much.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Well this is the attitude of one individual on one adcom. You can't take that to mean that everyone on the entire committee shares that sentiment. You also can't take that to mean that every adcom of every school shares it. Like I said I was surprised to hear that "scholars" receiving Bs were placed on probation.

What I was most interested in was not the "Bs can't get in", because that is obviously not true -- even for this school, but the correlation to getting a B in undergraduate pre-reqs and the need for remediation during medical school.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Well this is the attitude of one individual on one adcom. You can't take that to mean that everyone on the entire committee shares that sentiment. You also can't take that to mean that every adcom of every school shares it. Like I said I was surprised to hear that "scholars" receiving Bs were placed on probation.

What I was most interested in was not the "Bs can't get in", because that is obviously not true -- even for this school, but the correlation to getting a B in undergraduate pre-reqs and the need for remediation during medical school.

I guess I'm confused. If a scholar receives one or two Bs and still has around a 3.5 average, do they get put on probation? There's a big difference between some Bs and all Bs, and a 3.5 is vastly different from a 3.0 in terms of med school applications. The average gpa of accepted allopathic students is around a 3.6, so that's going to include some Bs here and there.

 

[pamd]

If the program requires you to score a 28+ on the MCAT (which some do) in order to matriculate into the med school, then a B here and there should not matter. However, at my undergrad, you don't have to take the MCAT in order to matriculate to med school, you just have to keep your GPA above a 3.8. If this is the case, then i can understand why a B in a prerequisite would put the student on probation.

 

[LizzyM]

Different schools have different requirements. These programs know that the students in BA/MD programs are extremely bright. Perhaps the suspicion is that given their HS performance & test scores, (which was the basis for admitting them to the BA/MD program) for these students to be getting a B or less as an undergrad is evidence of poor study habits or failure to take classes seriously. This can transfer into bad study habits, not to mention a smaller fund of knowledge, when one gets to med school. Hence the decision to put students on probation as a wake-up call.

Perhaps the school has data showing that students in these programs who don't do well as undergrads are underperforming in med school and they are trying to snap things in the bud. This does not extrapolate AT ALL to how adcoms judge the undergrad records of traditional applicants.

 

[riceman04]

Moto,

I actually had a total of 3 C's....2 in my first semester of freshman year (transition period rough and I went to an ivy) and one during junior year ( was taking 6 academic classes and an elective, of which 5 were science courses/labs). So, yes, I am farrrrrrrrr from perfect but I did have a fly a** personal statement, filled in all 15 ec's on the amcas, and interview very, very well!!! Hope that helps!

-Pretty

Hey I have 3 C's too all from freshman year (I thought I was the ish and therefore thought I could take a heavy science load while acting as team manager for the girls basketball team).

I got two C's my first semester (I wanted to go home sooooooooo badly...I felt stupid) and one C my second semester...no grades below a B after that.

I say all that to say that there is hope for me then, right?
(and yes I have lots of memorable EC's and a bomb essay)

 

[qwerty123]

I think I win. I have 3 Fs and many Cs and many Bs. But then I also have all As after my first couple of years.... And I just got my first acceptance this week!! 😀

 

[riceman04]

I think I win. I have 3 Fs and many Cs and many Bs. But then I also have all As after my first couple of years.... And I just got my first acceptance this week!! 😀

Congrats...did you do well on your MCAT?

 

[45408]

Different schools have different requirements. These programs know that the students in BA/MD programs are extremely bright. Perhaps the suspicion is that given their HS performance & test scores, (which was the basis for admitting them to the BA/MD program) for these students to be getting a B or less as an undergrad is evidence of poor study habits or failure to take classes seriously. This can transfer into bad study habits, not to mention a smaller fund of knowledge, when one gets to med school. Hence the decision to put students on probation as a wake-up call.

Perhaps the school has data showing that students in these programs who don't do well as undergrads are underperforming in med school and they are trying to snap things in the bud. This does not extrapolate AT ALL to how adcoms judge the undergrad records of traditional applicants.

if the school you are at has a BA/MD program, does the same adcom review those applications at any point?

 

[prettymd05]

Riceman,

No doubt there is hope for you. The key for me was to only apply to schools that I am genuinely interested in attending, for whatever the reason(s) may be. From there, I think my secondaries really showed genuine interest and they wanted to meet me on top of other things of course. But, hell yeah, there is hope...as long as you continue to do well and grow academically and professionally.

 

[Doc.Holliday]

remediation??? sure the kid with the B is at a lower starting point than the kid with the A, but really, the difference between those grades can be miniscule. I suppose it would matter what school this B is at...

I didnt make a single A in prereqs (except labs, and A-s) and Im making As in upper level bios etc, some of which are exact replicas of med school classes, with the same books they use etc, even the same professors in one (neuroscience/anatomy, pharmacology, biochem). Granted adcoms might not like the lack of As in prereqs for whatever reason, but it surely shouldnt be because they think i cant handle the work or will be in need of remediation.

 

[LizzyM]

if the school you are at has a BA/MD program, does the same adcom review those applications at any point?

No. They're in and the regular admissions committee has nothing to say about it.

 

[Highclimber]

hey kids... My BCPM is a 3.0 (or very close there to)... And I have acceptane... and I am not a non-trad or someone who did graduate coursework to overcome my gpa... I believe that if you come off as a genune person an adom can see that... I had more going on in my life than just academics (and i don't mean personal problems)... Its al about priorities, but if your priority is to become a doctor youare more than fine... Though mdapplicants may not have many allopathic students with my gpa who got accepted to allopathis... it is entirely possible and you jus thave to keep the faith... (incidentally my MCAT is below average as well)... keep the faith cuz it definately happens...

 

[qwerty123]

Congrats...did you do well on your MCAT?

Thanks! Depends on what you mean by "well". I did fine (31) and from my experience, I don't think you need a super high MCAT to overcome a bad academic record.....that is, if you don't care too much about school prestige and stuff. In the beginning, I was really freaking out about my GPA but many of my interviewers told me that my little stint in the beginning of college didn't matter since I pulled in a 4.0 for the last few years. So yes, it can be done!

 

[45408]

No. They're in and the regular admissions committee has nothing to say about it.

who is on the BA/MD adcom? similar composition of committee members (faculty MDs, faculty PhDs, etc.)?

 

[LizzyM]

who is on the BA/MD adcom? similar composition of committee members (faculty MDs, faculty PhDs, etc.)?

Yes, to the best of my knowledge. Of course, they are selecting applicants based only on H.S. grades, volunteerism and test scores. Some students, once admitted, slack off and arrive at the med school at least a year younger than everyone else and far less prepared for the rigors of medical school (because they went through college on cruise control). So, putting these kids on probation for getting a B (and telling mommy & daddy, too, I bet) is a wake-up call that hard work is expected in undergrad even if one already has admission to med school.

Again, I will repeat, this has no bearing for traditional applicants, I think that it is peculiar to one (?) BA/MD program and may be based on that school's particular experience in the M1 year.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

I guess I'm confused. If a scholar receives one or two Bs and still has around a 3.5 average, do they get put on probation?

Yup. In general the first B is a warning letter, the second B is probation -- but they look at the entire transcript. Some have been placed on probation for the first B because they're slipping in other subjects, too. The committee isn't messing around with the scholars. They're expected to perform to a high level. 20% of the incoming students comes from preacceptance programs. The adcom wants to assemble the best class as possible.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

if the school you are at has a BA/MD program, does the same adcom review those applications at any point?

This school doesn't have a traditional BA/MD program. The BA students complete their degrees as usual (four years). The only kicker is they have a guaranteed spot in medical school when they finish.

At this school, some of the docs are members of both adcoms: scholars and regular -- but there are two adcoms.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

who is on the BA/MD adcom? similar composition of committee members (faculty MDs, faculty PhDs, etc.)?

Yup, similar set up. My wife is a faculty MD.

 

[adcomm]

dear everybody,
this is a BA/MD specific thread. Bs and even a C or two are no problem as long as the overall GPA is decent, for regular MD programs.
have a nice day.