Insurance won’t pay for anesthesia care if procedure goes beyond time limit

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You can get a job done quickly and on the cheap if you pay by the job, but might not like the result.

Alternatively, a job can take a long time and be done carefully, but it will be expensive.

Take your pick.

Physician incomes make up around 8% of total healthcare expenditures in the United States. Talk about targeting the wrong group haha.

Pivot away from time based units and the downstream ripple effects are obvious. Anesthesiologists would leave jobs with sicker patients and seek out ones near healthier populations, since they’re being paid the same for an appendectomy anywhere, they might as well do them somewhere faster.
 
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CRNAs are always getting floated, until admin is reminded of nursing unions, mandated breaks, strict 8hrs shifts etc, versus just paying an MD group some version of a stipend and that doc will sit that 12hr case, not complain, and like just read the entire internet. If they have decent partners they’ll get their break, they’ll get their lunch, and quite honestly I believe things run smoother. The caveat is pay people well and they will do the work and some admins haven’t figured that part out.

I’ve always questioned i could put my career in another person’s hands and I guess I won’t know unless I try but it’s definitely less stressful not needing to hope someone else knows what they’re doing at 2am
The independent crnas without management fees/locums markup fess are commanding $350/hr solo practice are many surgery center with all min 8 hr gurantees.

Notice the aana no longer pushes crnas are cheaper. The only thing the aana pushes these days are
1. More access to care
2. Crnas are cheaper to train

That’s it. No mention of crnas being true cheaper. Just cost effective. Yet the number 4 article that’s mention is from a 2010 article on salary!!

And in the same article they mention crnas are the highest paid arnp pushing close to 300k in states like New Jersey.

The dumbwits can’t even keep their propaganda they are more cost effective when adjusted for hours worked. They are likely within 10% of the hourly MD daytime docs


CRNAs are the highest-paid APRN and can expect an average salary of $214,000 per year.9 However, each state will pay a bit differently. The top highest-paying states pay on average:10

  • New Jersey: $291,508
  • North Dakota: $281,272
  • California: $276,002
  • Maine: $269,571
  • Montana: $265,856
  • Louisiana: $261,954”

“CRNAs are also the most cost-effective anesthesia provider, costing patients and healthcare systems 30-33% less than an anesthesiologist.1,4”
 
Funny that the insurance company feels perfectly comfortable threatening to deny the “anesthesia fee”, if the case goes long, but not the “surgeon’s fee” or the hospital’s “facility fee”.
 
Apparently we're all millionaires and we are the sole source of outrageous healthcare costs for patients:

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.

"Providers – not insurance companies – are the primary drivers of high health care costs"

"But this particular fight was not actually about putting the interests of patients against those of rapacious corporations. Anthem’s policy would not have increased costs for their enrollees. Rather, it would have reduced payments for some of the most overpaid physicians in America. And when millionaire doctors beat back cost controls — as they have here — patients pay the price through higher premiums."
 

Mainstream Media calling us greedy millionaires who commit fraud to cost patients more money.

That piece is garbage! Exaggerating how long the case was? Is the author ignorant (answers own question). I wish there were a comment section.

Let him know what you think: [email protected]

Let the ASA know you expect a strong response: [email protected] and [email protected]

Apparently we're all millionaires and we are the sole source of outrageous healthcare costs for patients:

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.

"Providers – not insurance companies – are the primary drivers of high health care costs"

"But this particular fight was not actually about putting the interests of patients against those of rapacious corporations. Anthem’s policy would not have increased costs for their enrollees. Rather, it would have reduced payments for some of the most overpaid physicians in America. And when millionaire doctors beat back cost controls — as they have here — patients pay the price through higher premiums."

I was pissed, I would encourage everyone to blow up that authors email.
i looked for a way to contact vox itself. couldnt find it. anyone know? we should all be emailing or contacting them about this garbage piece.
I dont even see a point in myself contacting the author. its obvious garbage reporting written for clicks. vox needs to be publicly called out. otherwise they just get away with it and maybe even reward the author for generating good traffic. The author isnt even a healthcare journalist. basically just trying to take advantage of recent news

I did email ASA
 
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i looked for a way to contact vox itself. couldnt find it. anyone know? we should all be emailing or contacting them about this garbage piece.
I dont even see a point in myself contacting the author. its obvious garbage reporting written for clicks. vox needs to be publicly called out. otherwise they just get away with it and maybe even reward the author for generating good traffic. The author isnt even a healthcare journalist. basically just trying to take advantage of recent news

I did email ASA
Newsroom Manager [email protected]

Editor for Policy [email protected]
 
Newsroom Manager [email protected]

Editor for Policy [email protected]
Great! Hope others also email!

In todays political environment, we never know how it may affect us in the future. Anesthesia news getting more noticed lately due to UHC CEO murder. That alone also puts healthcare in the spotlight. Even Elon musk made a comment on X about how Americans do not get their moneys worth. With Elon, Vivek, Trump, and Trumps other appointees, you never know what they may do! Very unpredictable
 
I've seen this Twitter link floating around Facebook. it does look like someone found the insurance link in their board of directors.


1000081950.jpg
 
I've seen this Twitter link floating around Facebook. it does look like someone found the insurance link in their board of directors.


View attachment 396089
To be fair, NIHCM collusion with Vox is officially limited to:
  • Vox's "Private Equity's Takeover of American Health Care" was awarded a grant by NIHCM

  • Eliza Barclay, Vox's Science and Health Editor, joined the NIHCM Foundation's Health Care Research and Journalism Awards judges panel

  • NIHCM Foundation provides grants of up to $500,000 each year for journalism education projects and reporting
But there may be more unmeasured ideological influence behind the scenes. Or we may just be seeing Mr. Levitz's mommy/daddy issues manifesting in a very public way (he's stated publicly they're both MDs). I personally think the latter. Would be interesting to interview his parents and get their take.
 
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"We cannot trust insurers to do right by doctors and patients out of the kindness of their hearts," Mr. Torres said in a statement. "There is a need for legislation that prevents any insurer anywhere in America from micromanaging the length of anesthesia care in a medically necessary surgery."
 

"We cannot trust insurers to do right by doctors and patients out of the kindness of their hearts," Mr. Torres said in a statement. "There is a need for legislation that prevents any insurer anywhere in America from micromanaging the length of anesthesia care in a medically necessary surgery."

That is true, of course, but the entire debate is missing the big picture.

The simple truth is that "insurance" is the wrong concept for healthcare, because everyone expects to need/use it at some point. Healthcare needs shouldn't be solved by insurance.

Auto insurance works because the vast majority of people never have a significant claim. One's lifetime of premiums and deductible outlays easily cover the typical handful of minor at-fault or no-fault incidents a person has.

Homeowner's insurance works because the vast majority of people never have their house burn down. There are cracks in this segment of the insurance industry because in some places (Florida) the expectation is that many if not most people are going to have their house flooded or blown away at some point. It doesn't make sense to sell insurance for something you know is going to get wrecked eventually. But most people go their entire lives without making a significant homeowner's claim.

Life insurance works because the vast majority of people never die while covered. Premiums get prohibitively high for old people at risk of dying.

But health insurance? Nonzero outlay for everyone, every year. And near-certainty that during one's lifetime there will be multiple significant claims for injury, illness, childbirth. And probably dying too, because we can't let someone die without a 5- or 6-figure hospital bill to prolong life (in misery) a few extra weeks.

The purpose of "insurance" is to spread the cost of RARE events amongst many people. The model doesn't work when claims are common and inevitable, as they are in healthcare.

The notion of insuring people for pre-existing conditions is absurd. No one would sell auto insurance for an already-wrecked car. No one would sell homeowner's insurance for a house that started burning 20 minutes ago. But somehow the expectation is that health insurance companies should sell insurance to people who are already sick or injured. It's crazy.

The only rational answer for society is single payer. And the only thing stopping us from going there is the self-interest of the insurance lobby and some people who can't make the intellectual leap to understanding that burden of paying for healthcare, like national defense and the interstate highway system, lies squarely in the domain of government.

I used to think that it'd be a bad idea for government to do it, because government is either bad or mediocre at everything it does. After a decade+ of annual double-digit increases in premiums, and ongoing problems with claims, and worsening coverage denial rates even for people who are paying for insurance ... the government can't possibly do a worse job than insurance companies are doing. I used to scoff at the idea of government doing a better job of something than the private sector. But holy **** is the health insurance industry a chaotic pathetic mess.

After all that debate and angst over government "death panels" we got them anyway. But instead of panels of government drones making decisions with at least lip service toward solvency, the panels just turned out to be non-government drones in companies primarily concerned with extracting as much money as possible from patients, doctors, and hospitals.

We're a nation of perverse self-destructive incentives. Finance, healthcare, trade, manufacturing, agriculture. Self inflicted wounds everywhere.
 
Apparently we're all millionaires and we are the sole source of outrageous healthcare costs for patients:

A big insurer backed off its plan to pay less for anesthesia. That’s bad.

"Providers – not insurance companies – are the primary drivers of high health care costs"

"But this particular fight was not actually about putting the interests of patients against those of rapacious corporations. Anthem’s policy would not have increased costs for their enrollees. Rather, it would have reduced payments for some of the most overpaid physicians in America. And when millionaire doctors beat back cost controls — as they have here — patients pay the price through higher premiums."
The writer is so so sighted

I do have a question. Are insurers gonna to stop paying operating room times after certain time as well? Has that been discussed?
 
Surgery and anesthesia are the last two domains without time metrics as far as I know.
FP, pediatrics, derm, any office based practice now has time metrics. We are all familiar with the factory like primary care, see a patient every 15 or 20 min over and over.
This was a first effort to do the same to us. It will not be the last.
 
Surgery and anesthesia are the last two domains without time metrics as far as I know.
FP, pediatrics, derm, any office based practice now has time metrics. We are all familiar with the factory like primary care, see a patient every 15 or 20 min over and over.
This was a first effort to do the same to us. It will not be the last.
We don't generally bill based on time. We set appointment times and use that to dictate how many patients in a day we want to see. The more patience you see, the more money you make.
 
That is true, of course, but the entire debate is missing the big picture.

The simple truth is that "insurance" is the wrong concept for healthcare, because everyone expects to need/use it at some point. Healthcare needs shouldn't be solved by insurance.

Auto insurance works because the vast majority of people never have a significant claim. One's lifetime of premiums and deductible outlays easily cover the typical handful of minor at-fault or no-fault incidents a person has.

Homeowner's insurance works because the vast majority of people never have their house burn down. There are cracks in this segment of the insurance industry because in some places (Florida) the expectation is that many if not most people are going to have their house flooded or blown away at some point. It doesn't make sense to sell insurance for something you know is going to get wrecked eventually. But most people go their entire lives without making a significant homeowner's claim.

Life insurance works because the vast majority of people never die while covered. Premiums get prohibitively high for old people at risk of dying.

But health insurance? Nonzero outlay for everyone, every year. And near-certainty that during one's lifetime there will be multiple significant claims for injury, illness, childbirth. And probably dying too, because we can't let someone die without a 5- or 6-figure hospital bill to prolong life (in misery) a few extra weeks.

The purpose of "insurance" is to spread the cost of RARE events amongst many people. The model doesn't work when claims are common and inevitable, as they are in healthcare.

The notion of insuring people for pre-existing conditions is absurd. No one would sell auto insurance for an already-wrecked car. No one would sell homeowner's insurance for a house that started burning 20 minutes ago. But somehow the expectation is that health insurance companies should sell insurance to people who are already sick or injured. It's crazy.

The only rational answer for society is single payer. And the only thing stopping us from going there is the self-interest of the insurance lobby and some people who can't make the intellectual leap to understanding that burden of paying for healthcare, like national defense and the interstate highway system, lies squarely in the domain of government.

I used to think that it'd be a bad idea for government to do it, because government is either bad or mediocre at everything it does. After a decade+ of annual double-digit increases in premiums, and ongoing problems with claims, and worsening coverage denial rates even for people who are paying for insurance ... the government can't possibly do a worse job than insurance companies are doing. I used to scoff at the idea of government doing a better job of something than the private sector. But holy **** is the health insurance industry a chaotic pathetic mess.

After all that debate and angst over government "death panels" we got them anyway. But instead of panels of government drones making decisions with at least lip service toward solvency, the panels just turned out to be non-government drones in companies primarily concerned with extracting as much money as possible from patients, doctors, and hospitals.

We're a nation of perverse self-destructive incentives. Finance, healthcare, trade, manufacturing, agriculture. Self inflicted wounds everywhere.
It’s a me first society no matter what anyone says.

I’ve said numerous times. Single payor is the way to go. But healthcare like defense spending. Those are the two money driving economies in the USA

They account for 40% of the annual budget. People. Focus on gdp this. GDP that’s. Forget gdp. Focus on the budget

Knocking all the administrations for healthcare wiii have a ripple down effective. Go down the list of any 501c entity of how executives and mid level executives are paid. Single payor warrants elimination for 75% of those jobs. Where will they go work next? Same will even regular healthcare billing and processing people.

You will immediately cause unemployment to double to 6% with your the announcement single payor is on the way in. And that unemployment number can go to 10% easily with single payor

Too many hands in the cookie jar.
 
That is true, of course, but the entire debate is missing the big picture.

The simple truth is that "insurance" is the wrong concept for healthcare, because everyone expects to need/use it at some point. Healthcare needs shouldn't be solved by insurance.

Auto insurance works because the vast majority of people never have a significant claim. One's lifetime of premiums and deductible outlays easily cover the typical handful of minor at-fault or no-fault incidents a person has.

Homeowner's insurance works because the vast majority of people never have their house burn down. There are cracks in this segment of the insurance industry because in some places (Florida) the expectation is that many if not most people are going to have their house flooded or blown away at some point. It doesn't make sense to sell insurance for something you know is going to get wrecked eventually. But most people go their entire lives without making a significant homeowner's claim.

Life insurance works because the vast majority of people never die while covered. Premiums get prohibitively high for old people at risk of dying.

But health insurance? Nonzero outlay for everyone, every year. And near-certainty that during one's lifetime there will be multiple significant claims for injury, illness, childbirth. And probably dying too, because we can't let someone die without a 5- or 6-figure hospital bill to prolong life (in misery) a few extra weeks.

The purpose of "insurance" is to spread the cost of RARE events amongst many people. The model doesn't work when claims are common and inevitable, as they are in healthcare.

The notion of insuring people for pre-existing conditions is absurd. No one would sell auto insurance for an already-wrecked car. No one would sell homeowner's insurance for a house that started burning 20 minutes ago. But somehow the expectation is that health insurance companies should sell insurance to people who are already sick or injured. It's crazy.

The only rational answer for society is single payer. And the only thing stopping us from going there is the self-interest of the insurance lobby and some people who can't make the intellectual leap to understanding that burden of paying for healthcare, like national defense and the interstate highway system, lies squarely in the domain of government.

I used to think that it'd be a bad idea for government to do it, because government is either bad or mediocre at everything it does. After a decade+ of annual double-digit increases in premiums, and ongoing problems with claims, and worsening coverage denial rates even for people who are paying for insurance ... the government can't possibly do a worse job than insurance companies are doing. I used to scoff at the idea of government doing a better job of something than the private sector. But holy **** is the health insurance industry a chaotic pathetic mess.

After all that debate and angst over government "death panels" we got them anyway. But instead of panels of government drones making decisions with at least lip service toward solvency, the panels just turned out to be non-government drones in companies primarily concerned with extracting as much money as possible from patients, doctors, and hospitals.

We're a nation of perverse self-destructive incentives. Finance, healthcare, trade, manufacturing, agriculture. Self inflicted wounds everywhere.
You’re also assuming that the people who run the government actually want the job of being society’s bad guy when it comes to denying care.

The second someone’s 50th ED visit of the year for the hypochondriacs ear pain isn’t reimbursed or paid by Uncle Sam is the same second a neighborhood of assisted living elderly people write letters to congressmen to change it. They then get it all paid for and it has to be taken from someone else’s care.

We are not post scarcity in healthcare. People think we are, but we aren’t in any field except rad onc. Everything else is shortage and increasing demand

The government has zero reason or will to be the bad guy. Insurance is an easy scape goat for simple scarcity.
 
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It’s a me first society no matter what anyone says.

I’ve said numerous times. Single payor is the way to go. But healthcare like defense spending. Those are the two money driving economies in the USA

They account for 40% of the annual budget. People. Focus on gdp this. GDP that’s. Forget gdp. Focus on the budget

Knocking all the administrations for healthcare wiii have a ripple down effective. Go down the list of any 501c entity of how executives and mid level executives are paid. Single payor warrants elimination for 75% of those jobs. Where will they go work next? Same will even regular healthcare billing and processing people.

You will immediately cause unemployment to double to 6% with your the announcement single payor is on the way in. And that unemployment number can go to 10% easily with single payor

Too many hands in the cookie jar.
Wouldn’t be single payer. Would end up being Medicare advantage for all. Lots of government $$ to private companies and have them do what they do best. Deny care.
 
Wouldn’t be single payer. Would end up being Medicare advantage for all. Lots of government $$ to private companies and have them do what they do best. Deny care.
Sadly I think this will be the American version of single payer - Dr. Oz even suggested that this is what he wants. Then we’d be a bad version of the UK

But I agree with posters above, single payer is the only way to go and it really should be true Medicare for all, or something similar (sans “advantage”). The privatization can come with supplements on top of Medicare - but without any form of “advantage”.
 
I think he’s getting the message lol.


I don’t see it that way. He’ll respond to exactly zero of those emails. He posted a screenshot of anesthesiologists on the defensive and made another smug comment about how he may not survive his next surgery…furthering the argument that anesthesiologists are immoral and vindictive. He will avoid any public discussion about the claims he made. His message will continue to be amplified by the social media churn.

In other words, he wins. People really need to heed my warnings about mainstream media and social networks.
 
We don't generally bill based on time. We set appointment times and use that to dictate how many patients in a day we want to see. The more patience you see, the more money you make.
Well if you own your own billing rights that can work, for those who do not,they can feel a constant pressure to meet certain metrics.
The more you see the more you make....but if you do not see enough (cough cough 15 min), the less you make. "Oh and by the way let's talk about your time management "
 
Well if you own your own billing rights that can work, for those who do not,they can feel a constant pressure to meet certain metrics.
The more you see the more you make....but if you do not see enough (cough cough 15 min), the less you make. "Oh and by the way let's talk about your time management "
I'm sure that's true some places, but no where that I have worked. As long as you aren't losing the hospital money, they don't seem to care how busy you are.
 
I'm sure that's true some places, but no where that I have worked. As long as you aren't losing the hospital money, they don't seem to care how busy you are.
These are office practices, and if you are not feeling the punch all i can say is good for you. Sincerely it would be nice to know some PCP is not being squeezed
 
A hospital near me decided to start the policy of fining physicians for spending more than 10 minutes with a patient (outpatient) to maximize productivity. They are now facing a significant exodus of physicians
you have got to be kidding...
 
A hospital near me decided to start the policy of fining physicians for spending more than 10 minutes with a patient (outpatient) to maximize productivity. They are now facing a significant exodus of physicians
Jesus...

I'm in the top 10 most productive FPs in our group and even I do 15 minute appointments.
 
These are office practices, and if you are not feeling the punch all i can say is good for you. Sincerely it would be nice to know some PCP is not being squeezed
FM is an underrated field if you can find a decent set up.

Assuming I've done the math right, I'm going to clear around 450k this year (I work for a sorta county hospital so this information is subject to FOIA requests which is why I'm OK sharing it) and I know at least 6 FPs and 4 internists who will beat me. I took I believe 33 days off this year. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. 90 minute lunch, rarely stay in the office last 4:15. Half day Wednesday.

Sure, the pay is still less than most fields but the lifestyle is great.
 
It’s a me first society no matter what anyone says.

I’ve said numerous times. Single payor is the way to go. But healthcare like defense spending. Those are the two money driving economies in the USA

They account for 40% of the annual budget. People. Focus on gdp this. GDP that’s. Forget gdp. Focus on the budget

Knocking all the administrations for healthcare wiii have a ripple down effective. Go down the list of any 501c entity of how executives and mid level executives are paid. Single payor warrants elimination for 75% of those jobs. Where will they go work next? Same will even regular healthcare billing and processing people.

You will immediately cause unemployment to double to 6% with your the announcement single payor is on the way in. And that unemployment number can go to 10% easily with single payor

Too many hands in the cookie jar.
I once saw an interview with a corrections officer complaining that if crime stopped he would be out of a job .. at some point I dont really care what happens to these people who have chose to be health insurance agents, they can go become used care salesman
 
That is true, of course, but the entire debate is missing the big picture.

The simple truth is that "insurance" is the wrong concept for healthcare, because everyone expects to need/use it at some point. Healthcare needs shouldn't be solved by insurance.

Auto insurance works because the vast majority of people never have a significant claim. One's lifetime of premiums and deductible outlays easily cover the typical handful of minor at-fault or no-fault incidents a person has.

Homeowner's insurance works because the vast majority of people never have their house burn down. There are cracks in this segment of the insurance industry because in some places (Florida) the expectation is that many if not most people are going to have their house flooded or blown away at some point. It doesn't make sense to sell insurance for something you know is going to get wrecked eventually. But most people go their entire lives without making a significant homeowner's claim.

Life insurance works because the vast majority of people never die while covered. Premiums get prohibitively high for old people at risk of dying.

But health insurance? Nonzero outlay for everyone, every year. And near-certainty that during one's lifetime there will be multiple significant claims for injury, illness, childbirth. And probably dying too, because we can't let someone die without a 5- or 6-figure hospital bill to prolong life (in misery) a few extra weeks.

The purpose of "insurance" is to spread the cost of RARE events amongst many people. The model doesn't work when claims are common and inevitable, as they are in healthcare.

The notion of insuring people for pre-existing conditions is absurd. No one would sell auto insurance for an already-wrecked car. No one would sell homeowner's insurance for a house that started burning 20 minutes ago. But somehow the expectation is that health insurance companies should sell insurance to people who are already sick or injured. It's crazy.

The only rational answer for society is single payer. And the only thing stopping us from going there is the self-interest of the insurance lobby and some people who can't make the intellectual leap to understanding that burden of paying for healthcare, like national defense and the interstate highway system, lies squarely in the domain of government.

I used to think that it'd be a bad idea for government to do it, because government is either bad or mediocre at everything it does. After a decade+ of annual double-digit increases in premiums, and ongoing problems with claims, and worsening coverage denial rates even for people who are paying for insurance ... the government can't possibly do a worse job than insurance companies are doing. I used to scoff at the idea of government doing a better job of something than the private sector. But holy **** is the health insurance industry a chaotic pathetic mess.

After all that debate and angst over government "death panels" we got them anyway. But instead of panels of government drones making decisions with at least lip service toward solvency, the panels just turned out to be non-government drones in companies primarily concerned with extracting as much money as possible from patients, doctors, and hospitals.

We're a nation of perverse self-destructive incentives. Finance, healthcare, trade, manufacturing, agriculture. Self inflicted wounds everywhere.

I think we can keep the insurance companies and just regulate them into better behavior.

- Everyone gets paid the same rates, regardless of size. My little group would get paid the same as a large AMC for the same procedure.

- Automatic increases consistent with inflation, no more me calling and negotiating.

- No more medicare, these private insurance companies own the patients and continue to pay the same rates throughout the life of the subscriber. They no longer get bailed out of this responsibility during the costliest time of the subscribers life.

- Salary caps, no one is able to make more than X million dollars in healthcare insurance industry.

- Premium caps, we have to keep it reasonable. And no denying for pre-existing conditions. No more "open enrollment" you can enroll any time.

"The companies cant survive like that" Lets see.. the people working in the industry are already of the absolute lowest quality and education.

The infrastructure for a working system is already in place, its just being ruined by bad behavior of the insurance companies.. id rather first try to control that behavior than radically change the system
 
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I once saw an interview with a corrections officer complaining that if crime stopped he would be out of a job .. at some point I dont really care what happens to these people who have chose to be health insurance agents, they can go become used care salesman
The only issue there is so much money involved in both defense and healthcare

I mentioned 1989-1991 Washington DC and San Diego economies has a major pullback with defense spending cuts after cold wars. Housing prices went down as people lost defense jobs. Took an entire decade for the prices to come back

Healthcare single payor cut backs of administrative and support staff would absolutely destroy mid size (500k-1 million population)


In Rochester, New York, healthcare practitioners and technicians make up 21.8%of local employment, which is much higher than the national average of 6.1%. The average hourly wage for this group is $67.99, which is also higher than the national average of $46.52.

The healthcare industry in Rochester is facing a shortage of workers, which is leading to higher levels of stress and burnout. By 2030, it's estimated that 18% of healthcare jobs in the Rochester area will be unfilled.


The University of Rochester and its Medical Center is the largest employer in the city, with almost 20,000 employees.”

You cut healthcare in Rochester New York (a huge locums cash cow by the way the last 4-5 years, wink wink. It will destroy Rochester with single payor People will leave and never come back.
 
I once saw an interview with a corrections officer complaining that if crime stopped he would be out of a job .. at some point I dont really care what happens to these people who have chose to be health insurance agents, they can go become used care salesman
Same thing with us. If people didn’t have conditions that required surgery we would be in trouble.
 
More signs of the times. I have advised my teenager to avoid medicine like the plague. He'll be going into tech. My predication is an acute crisis in healthcare within the next 5-10 years, probably sooner. As in one that will be a major disruption. This year after year boiling a frog one degree at a time, putting more and more squeeze on doctors and medical facilities will eventually break the system.
 
I think we can keep the insurance companies and just regulate them into better behavior.

- Everyone gets paid the same rates, regardless of size. My little group would get paid the same as a large AMC for the same procedure.

- Automatic increases consistent with inflation, no more me calling and negotiating.

- No more medicare, these private insurance companies own the patients and continue to pay the same rates throughout the life of the subscriber. They no longer get bailed out of this responsibility during the costliest time of the subscribers life.

- Salary caps, no one is able to make more than X million dollars in healthcare insurance industry.

- Premium caps, we have to keep it reasonable. And no denying for pre-existing conditions. No more "open enrollment" you can enroll any time.

"The companies cant survive like that" Lets see.. the people working in the industry are already of the absolute lowest quality and education.

The infrastructure for a working system is already in place, its just being ruined by bad behavior of the insurance companies.. id rather first try to control that behavior than radically change the system
If there were no denying for pre-existing and you can enroll at any time the system would collapse. People would simply not buy insurance until they got sick.
 
If there were no denying for pre-existing and you can enroll at any time the system would collapse. People would simply not buy insurance until they got sick.
But marketplace plans can't deny for pre-existing coverage now.
 
Insurance companies need to take a page out of health sharing companies' books. How is it that these companies are so successful and yet maintain excellent coverage for the things their plans include? Also, how is it that when patients pay out of pocket, there is an immediate ~50% discount that most hospitals offer? My point is there is bloat somewhere there and it needs to go, ASAP.
 
The only issue there is so much money involved in both defense and healthcare

I mentioned 1989-1991 Washington DC and San Diego economies has a major pullback with defense spending cuts after cold wars. Housing prices went down as people lost defense jobs. Took an entire decade for the prices to come back

Healthcare single payor cut backs of administrative and support staff would absolutely destroy mid size (500k-1 million population)


In Rochester, New York, healthcare practitioners and technicians make up 21.8%of local employment, which is much higher than the national average of 6.1%. The average hourly wage for this group is $67.99, which is also higher than the national average of $46.52.

The healthcare industry in Rochester is facing a shortage of workers, which is leading to higher levels of stress and burnout. By 2030, it's estimated that 18% of healthcare jobs in the Rochester area will be unfilled.


The University of Rochester and its Medical Center is the largest employer in the city, with almost 20,000 employees.”

You cut healthcare in Rochester New York (a huge locums cash cow by the way the last 4-5 years, wink wink. It will destroy Rochester with single payor People will leave and never come back.

22% is just a little over our national average of 17-18%.


In smaller towns, healthcare can be an even more important contributor to the local economy.
 
FM is an underrated field if you can find a decent set up.

Assuming I've done the math right, I'm going to clear around 450k this year (I work for a sorta county hospital so this information is subject to FOIA requests which is why I'm OK sharing it) and I know at least 6 FPs and 4 internists who will beat me. I took I believe 33 days off this year. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. 90 minute lunch, rarely stay in the office last 4:15. Half day Wednesday.

Sure, the pay is still less than most fields but the lifestyle is great.


My friend had a private primary care office with 4 other doctors in Thousand Oaks which is a well to do suburb of LA. She does some office gyn too. Their practice was acquired by UCLA 8 yrs ago. They all make around 700-800k
 
22% is just a little over our national average of 17-18%.


In smaller towns, healthcare can be an even more important contributor to the local economy.
It’s massive if you cut back on healthcare spending. That’s what people need to understand. It’s a halo economy.

That’s why I mention. Obama tried to propose a modest 5% defense spending cut when he was president and met with immediate back lash.

There are so many hands in the cookie jar not just from the big contractors but the little guys as well who want and need the health and defense spending money
 
My friend had a private primary care office with 4 other doctors in Thousand Oaks which is a well to do suburb of LA. She does some office gyn too. Their practice was acquired by UCLA 8 yrs ago. They all make around 700-800k
With a good payer mix, owning the building, and ancillaries that's very doable.
 
Same thing with us. If people didn’t have conditions that required surgery we would be in trouble.
yes but i dont wish there to be unnecessary surgery in order for me to keep my job, id rather do something else than forcefully subject people to surgery no? that is my point.. if there is no need, you cant force people to need your services
 
The only issue there is so much money involved in both defense and healthcare

I mentioned 1989-1991 Washington DC and San Diego economies has a major pullback with defense spending cuts after cold wars. Housing prices went down as people lost defense jobs. Took an entire decade for the prices to come back

Healthcare single payor cut backs of administrative and support staff would absolutely destroy mid size (500k-1 million population)


In Rochester, New York, healthcare practitioners and technicians make up 21.8%of local employment, which is much higher than the national average of 6.1%. The average hourly wage for this group is $67.99, which is also higher than the national average of $46.52.

The healthcare industry in Rochester is facing a shortage of workers, which is leading to higher levels of stress and burnout. By 2030, it's estimated that 18% of healthcare jobs in the Rochester area will be unfilled.


The University of Rochester and its Medical Center is the largest employer in the city, with almost 20,000 employees.”

You cut healthcare in Rochester New York (a huge locums cash cow by the way the last 4-5 years, wink wink. It will destroy Rochester with single payor People will leave and never come back.
I lived in Rochester for 5 years, your absolutely right. There is little else.

But Private Insurance is not helping those people employed by healthcare in Rochester.

It may be putting MORE money into the system than other entities, it may be putting MORE money into the system than CMS, but its not doing all it can for those people. It could be giving much more. The city is full of poverty and minimal opportunities yet has some groundbreaking research is going on along with great medical training and world class care.

UHC doesn't care about those people. It pays only because it has to pay, and they try to find any way they can to not pay . UHC keeps as much money to itself and outside of the system as it possibly can. In that situation specifically, thank god for the university system that benevolently helps fund the rest of the health system.
 
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But marketplace plans can't deny for pre-existing coverage now.
Extremely very few people were ever “uninsurable”.

It’s very simple math as I have explained it over the years

There are roughly 2- million people who would be “uninsurable “ or prohibitively unable to afford healthcare
When the Dems tried to tell the public up to 100 million people have pre existing conditions. It’s a huge number that’s get the public attention. Except 35-40% of the USA is already on some type of Medicare/medicaid/chip. The other 60% on private insurance. That’s really only lives roughly 5% of the population who need access to healthcare on their own.

Of those 5%. (15 million ) maybe 1-2 million are not rated as insureable.

The govt could have easily created a very small Medicare for all for this limited subset of the population to get insured. There was so much hands in the cookie jar from every side whether to support the public option or not. If the govt expanded the public option. The private insurers would be out of business.

But it was a money grab from the private health insurers to get in on the ACA game. They pretty much got what they wanted from their lobbying efforts. Jack up the premiums on the younger population. To pay for the older sicker population. Except they knew very few super sick people would need the private market place insurance.

So the insurers colluded with the lawmakers to make even more mandatory insurance demands like men pay the same as women even though women consume more healthcare than men. That’s just one example. Like when I was self employed. I paid a separate maternity ob rider for my wife. I paid $200/extra per month plus a separate $2500 maternity ob deductible. So individually my wife had she had her own separate plan would have only been $150-175/month or so (without the ob rider). So $350-400 a month with the ob rider.

So the ingenious thing United healthcare and other insurers did was demand men pay the same as women. What this meant was men had to pay the same $350/400 a month premium as women. These insurers were not reducing the premiums on anyone. They simple made the child bearing women pay the same. But jack up the rates on the men and non child bearing women.

Ingenious I say. And increase profit margins for them.
 
This is not true.
What’s not true? That very few people are truly uninsurable ?
40% on Medicare/medicaid/chip prior to the ACA. No pre existing conditions barring them
Same with the private insurance companies for private insurers. The big policies didn’t care if you had a pre existing condition

What the ACA and the exchanges were about the 15 million in the private insurance market.

The 1-2 million uninsurables

I got my former neighbor who owned small furniture store healthcare in 2010. She had breast cancer. She’s high risk to insurers. The caveat for getting her health insurance was the insurers demanded a 2 year exclusion period for her breast cancer. It covered everything else. It’s like when you get life insurance. If you disclose a pre existing condition. The insurance company say it’s won’t pay out in the first 12 months for your pre existing condition

So if someone had htn. Insurance won’t pay for high blood pressure related medicine for 12 months. The 12 month exclusion period.

I know what I’m talking about. This is how I navigate for others who ask me how to get healthcare pre ACA.

For the women who didn’t carry maternity riders. That’s on them. It’s no sad story. They purposely didn’t carry maternity riders. I paid for it for my wife. I was responsible.

And guess what. The cash rate for ob probably is was cheaper option for many of these women anyways
$500 epidural
Flat $1500 for ob fees for all office visits
$500 for vaginal delivery
$500 extra for c/s if needed.
$3000 for 2 day hospital stay
$1000 cash rate for cs to the hospitals if surgery needed.

I went all through and the numbers.

Vs what I paid $200/month x 24 months plus $2500 ob deductible

It was a zero sum game. I probably would have been better off just paying cash for the ob instead of insurance maternity riders
 
FM is an underrated field if you can find a decent set up.

Assuming I've done the math right, I'm going to clear around 450k this year (I work for a sorta county hospital so this information is subject to FOIA requests which is why I'm OK sharing it) and I know at least 6 FPs and 4 internists who will beat me. I took I believe 33 days off this year. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. 90 minute lunch, rarely stay in the office last 4:15. Half day Wednesday.

Sure, the pay is still less than most fields but the lifestyle is great.

I was an internist and have a few primary care internist friends who will clear $600k with a similar setup…no nights/weekends/holidays (maybe the occasional “on call” for the practice where they answer a phone call and tell someone to go to the ER). Most days home by 3:30p, never past 5. Notes are now done by some AI scribe thing. They are seeing an uptick in more “healthy and younger” patients interested in the longevity/healthy living stuff.

Primary care can be a great field if you have the right setup. When I’m sitting in the OR at 2am, I really do question my decision at times. To be clear, there are tons of terrible primary care jobs out there, but the possibility to make a good life definitely exists.
 
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